TheFountain, on 28 June 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:
Brafarality, on 27 June 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:
I still have my original issue with sentiments like this:
If Nickelback, Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock are 'mainstream' whereas Beck and They Might Be Giants are not, why can't I name a single song by Nickelback, Limp Bizkit or Kid Rock, whereas I believe everyone on planet earth recognizes Loser by Beck and most people in this country recognize Boss of Me Now by TMBG?
I know it is a microcosm of the overall level of ignorance that is being called out in this thread, but it is a serious misconception people have and I still see it every single day. People I know think the Talking Heads were less mainstream in the 1980s than Billy Joel, Pat Benatar or someone like that, but every last person knew Once In a Lifetime in the 1980s. It was a HUGE hit.
Truly, no disrespect intended and I know I seem repetitive, but I have yet to come across an answer to the above, so I still have to comment on it once in a while.
Before I answer this I wish to ask how this relates in your mind to the question I posed in the beginning of the thread.
Now, not to overly analyze the issue at this time, but I believe what people are trying to say is that bands like The Talking heads were less 'generic' sounding than a lot of the other stuff that was out then? Or perhaps that Beck is less 'generic' sounding than nickelback? I have heard 15 bands that sound similar to nickelback, but none that remind me of Beck other than beck himself. So it could just be a case of misnomer. What they might be trying to say is one thing is generic, the other is not, even though both may have similar levels of popularity.
Anyway, I can sort of see the roundabout way this relates to my earlier points but I would still like it if you can word it your own way to clarify.
Ha! Yes, it seems wildly wide of the mark, so I hope I can account for it... You must have been like, 'Hmmm, ok. WTF does this have to do with anything???"
I guess I am tapping into numbers and using musical preferences as an indicator of what may or may not be considered white trash. To me, it seems like the mid level of society scraps for every inch of social posturing, so the minute a hipster claws and scratches a few inches higher than a metalhead, he makes all sorts of peacock displays of judgment on those he feels above momentarily.
But, most hipsters and indies are very careful not to set the overall bar TOO high, since they would then be part of the rabble themselves. They want to set it at just the right level where they can look down on the McDonalds eating Bud drinking, Guns n Roses listening set, but not so high that it puts ALL of consumer culture in a bin of mediocrity and only makes exceptions for greatness and genius, such as the attitude adopted by the Early Modern elitists, who are a curse to the modern scenester, since the Early Modern elitist would look at the hipster with the same scorn as a jocktard...all just middling. No avant-garde, nothing special.
What I am heading toward is the bar that separates the white trash from the higher level and where it is set:
If it is being set by deconstructionists, post-minimalists, etc., and the truly avant-garde, then pretty much everyone except the truly gifted and creative are nothing special and may as well be considered white trash and below the bar. This vantage puts 99% of the populace below the bar, since it is will be determined by Gertrude Stein, Oscar Wilde, Picasso and Mondrian, true elites who had no qualms about considering most of the population rabble...and people who today think themselves 'cultured' would be considered trash by this elite set.
But, if the bar is set by the very mediocre Hot Topic set, then all Michael Bolton fans and Bud drinkers are 'below' the bar, whereas those who listen to mass conformist indie music and drink Red Stripe are 'above' the bar. The problem with the hipster-emos Hot Topic ppl setting the bar is that they don't form an elite group, since only 30% of the populace actually listens to Guns and Roses and drinks Budweiser, so a vast majority of modern scenesters are above the bar and therefore, the vast majority are not white trash.
That is the problem: It is tough to find a level whereby a small minority (but not so small so as to be an elite 1%) are above the bar and the rest are white trash below the bar. It's either the hipster majority putting only 25% below it, and their now-huge majority above it, or the avant-garde elite putting 99% below it, and including noone but the great minds of history.
Thanks for replying!
Edited by Brafarality, 28 June 2012 - 05:08 PM.