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Warning TA 65 and cancer

TA65 Astragaloside Cycloastragenol

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#1 missminni

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:29 PM


I posted this in the Astragalus, Astragaloside IV Forum but want to make sure it gets noticed

since obviously it's not being reported anywhere else and I feel it is most important for all to know.

Below is the post that I just placed in that forum:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I just met a veterinarian who is treating my dogs with prolotherapy.
She's 61 years old, in great shape physically, looks much younger, and is very conscious of diet and health
with no history of cancer.

She did the TA65 program with a doctor who is involved in the program that TA Sciences promotes and ended
up with cervical cancer and had to have a hysterectomy at 59 yrs old and post menopause.

Of course she totally attributes it to the TA65. She is so angry that it's not being reported.
Since this obviously is going to be considered anecdotal who knows how many other cases
are going unreported, I want to post it here so those interested can make an informed decision.
It certainly has halted my enthusiasm for it.

holy cow...I just checked and saw that revgenetics is now selling TA Sciences product.
They also offered their product to Harlan, the pharmacy that compounds LivLong.
I guess they are trying to unload the product because there have been some
very suspicious side effects they are neglecting to report, as with the lady I mentioned above.
Beware. This is really unethical.
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#2 niner

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 11:33 PM

Hi missminni. I guess it's hard not to blame the cancer on something, particularly when there is a roundabout connection between telomerase and cancer. I'm sorry to hear about your vet and I hope she will be ok. Still, I have to say, people in their fifties and sixties get cancer. Offhand I can think of a dozen people close to me that died of cancer in their sixties or younger, and none of them were taking TA-65. If people taking TA65 were getting cancer at a higher rate than the general population of the same age, then I would worry. With a sample size of one, we just don't know that that's happening.
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#3 missminni

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 11:57 PM

Hi Niner,
the vet is fine. she had a hysterectomy and is cancer free now.
she's been a health enthusiast her whole life. She's an alternative vet that uses resveratrol and chinese herbs, A stem cells etc. so this
is her field.
All you say is true in theory, except that she got it after being on the TA Science program with one of their
participating doctors and it was never reported by TA Science as an incident of cancer.
In fact the doctor was very dismissive.
How can one know how many people on this program developed cancer if it's not being reported?
I think that's very misleading. She did too.

And now suddenly the two producers of cycloastragenol - RevGenetics and LivLong - are both offering the same TA Sciences product. What's up with that?
Is TA Science trying to get rid of their product? Maybe not such great results after all? Maybe complaints? who knows?
but If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck...I say quack quack.

personally, I now would never touch the stuff...and as you know I'll try anything...as I did when mega-dosing resveratrol. I'm a daredevil that way.
I wish it's not true because I'd love to find the magic bullet....but the fact that it's being suppressed is very disturbing. TA Science claims no incidence of cancer
yet within their own program there was at least this one...whether it was caused by the TA65 or not...and it should have been reported.
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#4 niner

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 12:17 AM

Ok, it was totally wrong of her doctor to not report this. That just seems like malpractice. Or do they somehow consider TA65 to no longer be worthy of surveillance? But the doctor is a separate entity from Patton, the TA65 guy. He'd probably like to know about this.
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#5 revenant

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 12:36 AM

missminni, sorry to hear of your vet's ordeal. Thanks for posting the warning. As with the TA65 trial, taking a telemorase activator for protracted periods of time does seem risky.

For almost 2 years now I myself have consumed 1oz of very strong astragalus tincture every other night for two weeks, then I stop for two weeks. So it works out to only taking the telemorase activator for one week per month. I also take a good dose reishi and he shou wu every single day, they stop telemorase activity and are powerful anti-cancer agents.
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#6 missminni

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 01:01 AM

Ok, it was totally wrong of her doctor to not report this. That just seems like malpractice. Or do they somehow consider TA65 to no longer be worthy of surveillance? But the doctor is a separate entity from Patton, the TA65 guy. He'd probably like to know about this.


She said her doctor worked with TA Science directly. She was in their program...the one that was very expensive and had all that testing.
So it's the program itself that is not reporting these incidences. She was very angry.
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#7 missminni

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 01:03 AM

missminni, sorry to hear of your vet's ordeal. Thanks for posting the warning. As with the TA65 trial, taking a telemorase activator for protracted periods of time does seem risky.

For almost 2 years now I myself have consumed 1oz of very strong astragalus tincture every other night for two weeks, then I stop for two weeks. So it works out to only taking the telemorase activator for one week per month. I also take a good dose reishi and he shou wu every single day, they stop telemorase activity and are powerful anti-cancer agents.


But wouldn't one negate the other?
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#8 revenant

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 01:43 AM

But wouldn't one negate the other?



I'm banking on short periods of telemorase activation doing the trick. I take the astragalus tincture before bed (around 11pm), then I take the reishi, he shou wu, and other supps around 5pm the following day. That gives the astroglosides about 16 hours in my system before -hopefully- the telemorase activity is stopped. I do know the important active molecule in he shou wu (2354 tetrahydroxystilbene glucoside) is only active in the system briefly then it's gone, not sure about the reishi ganodermasides though.

Edited by revenant, 01 October 2011 - 01:52 AM.

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#9 maxwatt

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 04:56 AM

Reishi is effective against cancer cells in vitro but according to some sources, only if it contains the spoors of the fungus. They had been growing the mycelia in a medium, and extracting from that, similar to the method used for cordyceps. Now the Chinese herbal extract industry is growing the Ganoderma mushrooms to maturity and using the spoor oil. It is considered to be a potent anti-carcinogen by traditional Chinese herbalists, and I hope studies will bear this out.

2,3,5,4' tetrahydroxy stilbene (THS) including its glucoside is considered the active ingredient in he shou wu, and occurs at a concentration of about 1% or more in the raw root, slightly less in the processed root (usually processed to a dark color by boiling with other herbs, which removes the emodin which is a potent laxative.) Its pharmokinetic profile in the link revenant gave above appears quite similar to resveratrol, from which it differs by a single 'OH' in the 2 position of the stilbene ring. I am unfamiliar with whether THS inhibits telomerase, and I have reason to doubt that resveratrol actually inhibits it either: there are conflicting studies. Some have found resveratrol activates telomerase. I've not gone into the methods section of the half dozen or so papers reporting resveratrol's effect vis a vis telomerase, but it's possible the effect depends on concentration. As for THS, it is the only substance I know of that has been reported to break crosslinking of pentosamine AGEs. That spells wrinkles. Maybe it would make a dynamite skin cream. I am actively working with a botanical extractor to see if we can extract some THS at 98% purity. They are reluctant, as the raw ingredient is very expensive and they do not see a commercial application. It would be an interesting substance to try on one's aging pets.

FWIW, he shou wu means something like "Mr. Haye's black hair". According to legend, Mr. He was 63, not healthy, gray-haired and unmarried. He discovered the herb, and began using it daily. His hair soon turned black, he regained his youthful vigor, and married and sired sons. The herb has been used traditionally for 1000 years as an anti-aging tonic. Topical application is supposed to restore youthful hair color. Superstition perhaps, but it suggests a starting point for investigation. If you want to find a shampoo or conditioner containing he shou wu in a traditional formula that purportedly treats gray hair, google "American Diety of Hair". Let me know if it works.

Astragalus' use in traditional Chinese medicine includes treating immune deficiency and fatigue, to heal wounds, and to improve digestion and reduce edema caused by cardiac weakness. It can cause headache and hypertension. In combination with other herbs it is is used to treat nephritis. Nothing in these uses suggests specific anti-aging properties, which I would expect would have been discovered 1000 years ago if: 1) astragalus preparations lengthen telomeres, and 2) lengthened telomeres result in rejuvenation and life extension.

Edited by maxwatt, 01 October 2011 - 05:01 AM.

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#10 niner

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 01:25 PM

As for THS, it is the only substance I know of that has been reported to break crosslinking of pentosamine AGEs. That spells wrinkles.

Really? That would be useful, if the effect is significant. I couldn't find any reference to it though. (Are you thinking of pentosidine?) Do you have a link? I did find that THS was a scavenger of methylglyoxal, a property that it shares with EGCG, Genestein, and probably some other polyphenols.
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#11 maxwatt

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 06:07 PM


As for THS, it is the only substance I know of that has been reported to break crosslinking of pentosamine AGEs. That spells wrinkles.

Really? That would be useful, if the effect is significant. I couldn't find any reference to it though. (Are you thinking of pentosidine?) Do you have a link? I did find that THS was a scavenger of methylglyoxal, a property that it shares with EGCG, Genestein, and probably some other polyphenols.

My bad, I meant pentosidine, :blink:

There are several patent application that mention this property, but also in conjunction with piceatinol which is a kmetabolite of resveratrol. I think the citation is from this paper, not mentioned in the abstract, and I do not have the full paper:


Stilbene Glucoside from Polygonum multiflorum Thunb.: A Novel Natural Inhibitor of Advanced Glycation End Product Formation by Trapping of Methylglyoxal

Lishuang Lv, Xi Shao, Liyan Wang, Derong Huang, Chi-Tang Ho and ,Shengmin Sang

Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry 2010 58 (4), 2239-2245


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#12 Marios Kyriazis

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 06:27 PM

Stilbene Glucoside from Polygonum multiflorum Thunb.: A Novel Natural Inhibitor of Advanced Glycation End Product Formation by Trapping of Methylglyoxal

Lishuang Lv, Xi Shao, Liyan Wang, Derong Huang, Chi-Tang Ho and ,Shengmin Sang

Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry 2010 58 (4), 2239-2245





This paper talks about preventing AGEs and glycation. It does not mention bond-breaking.
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#13 johnross47

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:56 PM


Ok, it was totally wrong of her doctor to not report this. That just seems like malpractice. Or do they somehow consider TA65 to no longer be worthy of surveillance? But the doctor is a separate entity from Patton, the TA65 guy. He'd probably like to know about this.


She said her doctor worked with TA Science directly. She was in their program...the one that was very expensive and had all that testing.
So it's the program itself that is not reporting these incidences. She was very angry.


As I already posted on the other topic....as I recall the TA65 report claimed " no statistically significant increase in cancer" (or words to that effect) These sound like lawyer's words. Would a larger test population have produced statistically significant results? I care. I use the stuff and I'm not too young any more.
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#14 missminni

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 08:17 PM



Ok, it was totally wrong of her doctor to not report this. That just seems like malpractice. Or do they somehow consider TA65 to no longer be worthy of surveillance? But the doctor is a separate entity from Patton, the TA65 guy. He'd probably like to know about this.


She said her doctor worked with TA Science directly. She was in their program...the one that was very expensive and had all that testing.
So it's the program itself that is not reporting these incidences. She was very angry.


As I already posted on the other topic....as I recall the TA65 report claimed " no statistically significant increase in cancer" (or words to that effect) These sound like lawyer's words. Would a larger test population have produced statistically significant results? I care. I use the stuff and I'm not too young any more.


I think there's something fishy going on.
Just the fact that TAScience within the last couple of months has contacted both RevGenetics and Finlandia Pharmacy,
two companies that make a cycloastragenol product of their own, to offer up their wares.
It appears they are trying to unload product.
I'm not saying RevGenetics or Finlandia are doing anything fishy,
but TA Sciences might be. It must not be moving or maybe they're getting too much negative feedback.
That was very expensive product and I'm sure they want to get their cost back.
Who knows?
Personally, If I were you, I wouldn't use it. Better safe than sorry.
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#15 maxwatt

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 09:03 PM

I suspect TA ran out of people willing to pay for the protocol, and are seeking to broaden their market. If a company is not growing, investors loose interest. With all the publicity for the last few years, they saw a ready market among less affluent longevity seekers.

"Statistically significant" is not lawyer-speak ass-covering. It means in this case that the incidence is low enough that it can be attributed to chance rather than to the thing one is testing. In any group of 100 people, some will get cancer. To oversimplify: if the control group has two incidences, and the test group has three, y, ou have to consider than random fluctuations may cause the difference: sometimes the control group has worse outcomes. If you ran the test again, there might be three cancers in the control group, and one in the test group. So far there is no definite (.e. statistically significant) evidence TA-65 causes cancer, no more than there is evidence that it does not cause cancer. Neither is there evidence that it will prolong life, though TA have been claiming it causes improvement in some blood tests and other parameters. The "improvements" might be a sigh of impending longevity, or it could be meaningless.

This could be as misguided a dead end as was taking BHT to protect one's tissues from free-radical Despite the cancer scares and talk of enlarged livers, no one appears to have gotten cancer and no one can be shown to have lived any longer.
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#16 missminni

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 09:12 PM

I suspect TA ran out of people willing to pay for the protocol, and are seeking to broaden their market. If a company is not growing, investors loose interest. With all the publicity for the last few years, they saw a ready market among less affluent longevity seekers.

"Statistically significant" is not lawyer-speak ass-covering. It means in this case that the incidence is low enough that it can be attributed to chance rather than to the thing one is testing. In any group of 100 people, some will get cancer. To oversimplify: if the control group has two incidences, and the test group has three, y, ou have to consider than random fluctuations may cause the difference: sometimes the control group has worse outcomes. If you ran the test again, there might be three cancers in the control group, and one in the test group. So far there is no definite (.e. statistically significant) evidence TA-65 causes cancer, no more than there is evidence that it does not cause cancer. Neither is there evidence that it will prolong life, though TA have been claiming it causes improvement in some blood tests and other parameters. The "improvements" might be a sigh of impending longevity, or it could be meaningless.

This could be as misguided a dead end as was taking BHT to protect one's tissues from free-radical Despite the cancer scares and talk of enlarged livers, no one appears to have gotten cancer and no one can be shown to have lived any longer.


You're probably right. If it were inexpensive or reasonably priced, would you try it?
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#17 revenant

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 11:23 PM


Astragalus' use in traditional Chinese medicine includes treating immune deficiency and fatigue, to heal wounds, and to improve digestion and reduce edema caused by cardiac weakness. It can cause headache and hypertension. In combination with other herbs it is is used to treat nephritis. Nothing in these uses suggests specific anti-aging properties, which I would expect would have been discovered 1000 years ago if: 1) astragalus preparations lengthen telomeres, and 2) lengthened telomeres result in rejuvenation and life extension.


Well I know it's only anecdotal, but the chinese herbalist Li Ching Yuen used astragalus on a daily basis in his "spring wine" preparation. It may be bs, but he is purported by the chinese government to have lived 2 hundred years or more. He also included in the preparation geckos, seahorses, human placenta etc. etc..so we can presume he had loose bowels if nothing else. He used reishi, he shou wu, ginseng, and gotu kola as well.

That aside, it is known that some astraglosides do in fact upregulate the expression of the telomorase enzyme. I would think maintaining one's telomeres is important, but may not necessarily rejuvinate cells or extend life per se. It is part of my holistic approach until better methods become available. I think that activating surtuins to protect DNA is very important if apoptosis is interfered with by lengthing telemores though.
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#18 niner

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 12:16 AM

So far there is no definite (.e. statistically significant) evidence TA-65 causes cancer, no more than there is evidence that it does not cause cancer. Neither is there evidence that it will prolong life, though TA have been claiming it causes improvement in some blood tests and other parameters. The "improvements" might be a sigh of impending longevity, or it could be meaningless.

This could be as misguided a dead end as was taking BHT to protect one's tissues from free-radical Despite the cancer scares and talk of enlarged livers, no one appears to have gotten cancer and no one can be shown to have lived any longer.

I found the improvement in immune system parameters to be pretty attractive. They shifted the profile of CMV+ patients toward a more longevous version. I don't know my CMV status, though it can be tested; statistics say that I'm positive. I'll probably try to confirm that anyway. The widespread anecdotal reports of eyesight improvement are also interesting. I think that we'll be seeing more papers on the effects of cycloastragenol. At this point it doesn't look misguided or like a dead end, but time will tell.

If it were inexpensive or reasonably priced, would you try it?

At this point, I plan to start when the price gets reasonable. I expect by then it will be better characterized. If it starts looking really good, that would encourage me to start sooner, and if it starts looking worse, I could change my mind.
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#19 maxwatt

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 02:05 AM

The herb has been used in Chinese medicine since the Han Dynasty 200 years ago, and used within the parameters of traditional Chinese medicine it safe enough, I believe. Extracts, maybe. But the Chinese combine herbs, sometimes ones with opposite effects, in specific ratios and of specified quality. Interesting that the traditional major use is in strengthening the immune system, and niner cites the immune system parameter improvements. Like resveratrol, some parameters improve but overall no proof of life extension.

Current cost of TA-65 is around $250/month. I tried Revgenetics compound for two months, still have half a bottle, but noticed nothing in so short a time. Then it was discontinued, and I stopped figuring Anthony had his reasons for discontinuing Astral Fruit. I still want to see more results than what I can get from my Chinese herbalist. ;) As for eyesight improvement, maybe it's real, but eyesight improvement was reported for ALT-711 among Paul's buying group with no proof, and is also reported for Scientology, most assuredly with no basis in fact. I agree with niner that by the time the next price drop comes, we should have more studies to make an informed decision.
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#20 johnross47

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:35 PM

I suspect TA ran out of people willing to pay for the protocol, and are seeking to broaden their market. If a company is not growing, investors loose interest. With all the publicity for the last few years, they saw a ready market among less affluent longevity seekers.

"Statistically significant" is not lawyer-speak ass-covering. It means in this case that the incidence is low enough that it can be attributed to chance rather than to the thing one is testing. In any group of 100 people, some will get cancer. To oversimplify: if the control group has two incidences, and the test group has three, y, ou have to consider than random fluctuations may cause the difference: sometimes the control group has worse outcomes. If you ran the test again, there might be three cancers in the control group, and one in the test group. So far there is no definite (.e. statistically significant) evidence TA-65 causes cancer, no more than there is evidence that it does not cause cancer. Neither is there evidence that it will prolong life, though TA have been claiming it causes improvement in some blood tests and other parameters. The "improvements" might be a sigh of impending longevity, or it could be meaningless.

This could be as misguided a dead end as was taking BHT to protect one's tissues from free-radical Despite the cancer scares and talk of enlarged livers, no one appears to have gotten cancer and no one can be shown to have lived any longer.

I understand the statistical issues. There were several problems with this study; the small sample of self selected reasonably affluent subjects with no controls and no randomisation. A small effect couldn't achieve significance but if it was maintained in a large population might be highly significant. We can't know as things are.
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#21 Fran Picard

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 11:31 AM

No doubt TA-65 is being dumped.
Would you give out fountain of youth at $2 per capsule? (wholesale price of TA-65 as of August, 2011).

Obviously something is not right with this thing.

And maxwatt, you've been here for years, relentlessly promoting Astral Fruit all along and now you are telling us that you've been using this thing only for two months?
OK, you are talking TA-65, not Astral Fruit, fine, then have you been using Astral Fruit?
If so how long? Let us know what it did for you.
And if not, why have you been such an adamant proponent of this thing while you are not even taking it?

What about you niner?

Nothing adds up.
Care to expalin?
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#22 missminni

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 05:20 PM

No doubt TA-65 is being dumped.
Would you give out fountain of youth at $2 per capsule? (wholesale price of TA-65 as of August, 2011).

Obviously something is not right with this thing.

And maxwatt, you've been here for years, relentlessly promoting Astral Fruit all along and now you are telling us that you've been using this thing only for two months?
OK, you are talking TA-65, not Astral Fruit, fine, then have you been using Astral Fruit?
If so how long? Let us know what it did for you.
And if not, why have you been such an adamant proponent of this thing while you are not even taking it?

What about you niner?

Nothing adds up.
Care to expalin?


$2 per capsule? (wholesale price of TA-65 as of August, 2011)
oh my. that's 5 mg of cycloastragenol at cost.
They aren't even making a profit on it. They're just trying to break even. How were you privy to this information?
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#23 maxwatt

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 05:59 PM

@Fran Picard: I've never 'promoted' Astral Fruit (AF), and I'm ambivalent on TA-65. I suspect it's a useless nostrum. I mentioned I tried AF briefly, no result either way. Get a grip and learn to read instead of fantasizing.
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#24 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 02:07 AM

Fran is beginning to sound familiar (specially since he is new, with only 3 posts)... but I digress.

Missminni, I doubt anything is being dumped. They would not spend good money on better packaging, if they were going to go ahead and dump the product. I have seen the packaging of course, and it's top notch. Not like the original labels that had been used previously, which looked off center a bit.

Instead of looking at the glass half empty, I offer my opinion which has the TA folks finally coming around and acknowledging the market outside of doctor's offices.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 04 October 2011 - 02:09 AM.

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#25 Louis

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 05:05 PM

Was this woman on hormone replacement therapy (synthetic or bio-identical)?

Perhaps the blame should really be placed there.
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#26 TongRen

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 06:24 PM

Li Qing Yuen's formula, according to memory, consisted of He Shou Wu, Gou Qi Zi, Ren Shen, Gotu Kola, and was supplemented by Huang Qi and Ling Zhi in an alcohol base. There is no indication he used Hai Ma or Ze He Che at all...these last two would be too intense for a long term formula. May I ask what text you referenced those from? As for the Ge Jie, it is possible, but again unlikely, as gecko is again, more of a short term herb for asthma and lung qi deficiency.

I *can* see problems arising with the improper taking of Astragalus (Huang Qi). In ancient Chinese herbal medicine (rather than "Traditional Communist Medicine" or TCM), huang qi was a wei qi activator first and foremost, a qi tonic second. As a result, its use is to be discontinued at the first sign of illness. This is because the exopathogenic factor will be "tonified" or "the robber will be locked in the house" if taken during illness. It seems that problems associated with TA-65 or Cyclo re: carcinogenesis might be associated with forgeting all the scientific knowledge of several centuries.

Essentially, if there was an existing exopathogen in the woman's body, taking highly concentrated Astragalus components could very well have "Tonified the Pathogen" (dampness-cancer). But as to causing carcinogenesis? Vanishingly small chance.

And finally, I have to mention that Li Qing Yuen's longevity is not "anecdotal." If we are to give credence to any historical records for the purposes of scholarship, then why selectively toss out census and birth records showing his birth in the late Qing (late 1600's)? Anecdotal refers to experiential, rather than objective data.

I would suggest looking at Greenpower's data and methodology, as herbs are usually more effective in their natural, whole state. It makes sense to combine herbs with complimentary AND balancing effects, to both enhance and moderate the effects of the whole. To argue against taking Astragalus (a Telomerase Activator) with Ling Zhi (a Telomerase Inhibitor) is folly- I would like to see some data showing that this combination is detrimental to telomere length. I suspect it would be the opposite.

TongRen



Astragalus' use in traditional Chinese medicine includes treating immune deficiency and fatigue, to heal wounds, and to improve digestion and reduce edema caused by cardiac weakness. It can cause headache and hypertension. In combination with other herbs it is is used to treat nephritis. Nothing in these uses suggests specific anti-aging properties, which I would expect would have been discovered 1000 years ago if: 1) astragalus preparations lengthen telomeres, and 2) lengthened telomeres result in rejuvenation and life extension.


Well I know it's only anecdotal, but the chinese herbalist Li Ching Yuen used astragalus on a daily basis in his "springwine" preparation. It may be bs, but he is purported by the chinese government to have lived 2 hundred years or more. He also included in the preparation geckos, seahorses, human placenta etc. etc..so we can presume he had loose bowels if nothing else. He used reishi, he shou wu, ginseng, and gotu kola as well.

That aside, it is known that some astraglosides do in fact upregulate the expression of the telomorase enzyme. I would think maintaining one's telomeres is important, but may not necessarily rejuvinate cells or extend life per se. It is part of my holistic approach until better methods become available. I think that activating surtuins to protect DNA is very important if apoptosis is interfered with by lengthing telemores though.


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#27 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 04:41 AM

Maria Blasco's TA-65 and Cancer Study:
http://www.revgeneti...a-65-and-cancer

A
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#28 Kevnzworld

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 05:30 PM

Maria Blasco's TA-65 and Cancer Study:
http://www.revgeneti...a-65-and-cancer

A



I've been following the TA-65 debate for years, ever since I read an article in LEF. Personally, I've been supplementing for 10 years, with hormones for 5.
I believe that caution and science, not marketing and hype is best of course. I hope that the argument against the use of TA-65 will resemble the reasons given for not using Testosterone , the promotion of prostate cancer. False ( at this point ).
As I read thru years of threads on this forum, I'm struck with how many supplements,herbs and vitamins have posts extolling the fears that they potentially propagate cancer. If I didn't know better, it would seem like cancer didn't exist before the growth of the supplement industry. I guess those that stick with the " safe " allopathic approaches to medicine don't have to fear cancer.
I remind myself that cancer cells respirate sugar, and without sugar we would die.
I find it interesting that Revgenetics is now selling TA-65 !
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#29 hav

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 02:42 PM

Maria Blasco's TA-65 and Cancer Study:
http://www.revgeneti...a-65-and-cancer

A


Couldn't find the study or much about it in the link above but I was able to hunt down the abstract:

Here, we show that a small-molecule activator of telomerase (TA-65) purified from the root of Astragalus membranaceus is capable of increasing average telomere length and decreasing the percentage of critically short telomeres and of DNA damage in haploinsufficient mouse embryonic fibroblasts (MEFs) that harbor critically short telomeres and a single copy of the telomerase RNA Terc gene (G3 Terc+/− MEFs). Importantly, TA-65 does not cause telomere elongation or rescue DNA damage in similarly treated telomerase-deficient G3 Terc−/− littermate MEFs. These results indicate that TA-65 treatment results in telomerase-dependent elongation of short telomeres and rescue of associated DNA damage, thus demonstrating that TA-65 mechanism of action is through the telomerase pathway. In addition, we demonstrate that TA-65 is capable of increasing mouse telomerase reverse transcriptase levels in some mouse tissues and elongating critically short telomeres when supplemented as part of a standard diet in mice. Finally, TA-65 dietary supplementation in female mice leads to an improvement of certain health-span indicators including glucose tolerance, osteoporosis and skin fitness, without significantly increasing global cancer incidence.


And this article from USCience Review with a little more detail from the full-text of the study:

Published on April 14, 2011 in the journal Aging Cell, a recent study indicated that a telomerase activator known as TA-65 elongates telomeric DNA without increasing cancer risk. In this study, which was conducted at the Spanish National Cancer Centre in Madrid, Spain, TA-65 was obtained from a traditional Chinese medicinal plant known by its scientific name as Astragalus membranaceous (shown in Figure 2). Two groups of mice were used, with each consisting of middle-aged and old mice; while one group was given food containing the telomerase activator, the other group was given regular food as a control. The researchers found that in mice who had a copy of the Terc gene needed to make telomerase, TA-65 activated telomerase resulting in elongation of very short telomeres and reversal of DNA damage. In addition to this, in female adult mice, this molecule also increased overall glucose tolerance, improved skin health of female, and decreased osteoporosis risk. Even though the mice that were given TA-65 had an increased incidence of liver cancer in comparison to the mice in the control group, this difference was statistically insignificant and therefore dismissed (De Jesus et al, 2011). Thus, the researchers have concluded that TA-65 is able to elongate telomere length and allow tissue replenishment without increasing cancer risk.


Personally, I plan on continuing to take standardized astragalus extract. But seeing the mention of increased liver cancer being statistically insignificant, I feel more confident knowing I cycle it with Silymarin and Saikosaponin A (bupleurum extract) which studies show are beneficial to liver health.

Howard

Edited by hav, 30 May 2012 - 02:43 PM.

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#30 smithx

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:24 AM

Silymarin and Saikosaponin A (bupleurum extract) which studies show are beneficial to liver health.


Not to change the subject, but what studies show that silymarin is generally good for liver health?

I've seen studies indicating that it's protective when animals are exposed to known hepatotoxins, but nothing indicating that it's of any use chronically. If you have come across any such studies, they would be of interest.
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: TA65, Astragaloside, Cycloastragenol

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