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Reverse glycation - what should one take?

skin nutrition anti aging

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#1 ViolettVol

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 12:09 PM


What should one take to reverse glycation that has already taken place? What would be the best stack to take to reverse damage done by some years of bad diet?

#2 Arcanyn

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 12:19 PM

Alagebrium's the only thing around at the moment that can reverse glycation, and it only affects a minor type of crosslink. There isn't really all that much that can be done to reverse glycation at this stage.

#3 ViolettVol

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 01:33 PM

I read its a failed drug. cant one do sth with exercise and taking supplements?

#4 simon007

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 03:19 PM

Here is a nice link about glycation, http://www.vrp.com/b...ensive-approach

I use metformin, acarbose and aminoguanidine. I'm thinking about starting with low dose aspirine.

Cheers,

Simon

#5 pycnogenol

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 03:20 PM

Not reverse but rather reduce advanced glycation end products:

Other Natural Products that Reduce Glycation and AGE Formation
  • Benfotiamine, a lipid-soluble form of thiamine, vitamin B1
  • Tomato paste
  • Resveratrol, inositol, and others
  • Pyridoxamine, a form of vitamin B6
  • Carnosine
  • Curcumin
  • Rosemary
  • Alpha-lipoic acid1
  • Flavonoids luteolin, rutin, quercetin, kaempferol, and EGCG
An AGE-Breaking Drug that Has Been Around for Nearly Forever but May Never Get FDA Approval:

ALT-71117—this drug actually breaks previously formed “irreversible” AGEs. Might be nice to have, if you could get it. But with a price tag of about $800,000,000 to get FDA approval, it is a wonder that anything gets approved, and the very few large companies that can afford this price want to make sure things remain the same. Hence the recent introduction of a 1300-page Good Manufacturing Practices for dietary supplements rules and regulations from the FDA. “Let’s clean up (Order! We need order!) the dietary supplement industry by getting rid of these small, pesky, innovative companies.” We can anticipate significant price increases in dietary supplements as a result of the increased costs of complying with all these rules and regulations, as well as greatly reduced competition in the industry as thousands of the current 15,000 mostly small businesses go belly-up. But then, getting rid of your competitors with the help of the FDA’s guns by lobbying (and paying them user’s fees) is standard practice of oligopolists.

Link:

http://www.life-enha...ate.asp?id=1869

Edited by pycnogenol, 13 November 2011 - 03:21 PM.


#6 1kgcoffee

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 04:36 PM

Read this violet:
http://books.google....ycation&f=false

Two more threads that might be of interest:
http://www.longecity...ti-fights-ages/
http://www.longecity...nd-a1c-results/

Can't find a citation, but I remember reading somewhere that we have endogenous enzymes that can undo and repair some glycation damage. I have a hunch that fasting or half-fasting/juice-fasting, anything that turns on autophagy, might also activate these enzymes. Watch the documentary "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead" to see the effect of juice fasting in action. Your next best bet is to take anti-glycation supplements, eat and exercise in a way that stops them from forming. Pycnogenol has a pretty good list of supplements there. I would add cinnamon verum, beta-alanine, fo ti, apple cider vinegar, tocotrienols. Anything containing glycosides like dandelion root or grape seed helps. Pycnogenol decreases glycation and will also have a good effect on your skin. Two warnings about his list though - benfotiamine is one of the best you could take, but it could increases cancer risk by 100% at sustained higher doses (around 800mg a day) but you really only need to take 150mg to 250mg (after a loading dose of 1 gram for a week or two.) I take it myself. Second, lipoid acid is powerful stuff. It eats up a lot of biotin and chelates metals from your body, including heavy metals. It has a very short short half. If you take it, you have to take it in at least three divided doses throughout the day or you risk damage by moving heavy metals around your body, but not out. If you start, you have to take it for at least it month. You need to take biotin while on LA. Long term use might cause a copper deficiency.

For exercise, weight training reduces glycation, by forcing excess sugar into cells before they have a chance to stick to cells and undergo browning. It increases insulin sensitivity keeps blood sugar in check. I do not recommend running because of the oxidative stress that it causes, which could lead to an increase in glycation. Walking is better.

Last thing, you'll want to try keeping blood sugar low without getting into hypoglycemic range and avoid spikes in blood sugar by eating more slowly and avoiding refined carbs. Eat plenty of fibre. Avoid excess fructose as it glycates more readily than other sugars, that means avoiding supersweet mutant hybrid fruits, or at eating them with lots of greens or the peel.

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 13 November 2011 - 04:48 PM.


#7 ViolettVol

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 04:58 PM

Read this violet:
http://books.google....ycation&f=false

Two more threads that might be of interest:
http://www.longecity...ti-fights-ages/
http://www.longecity...nd-a1c-results/

Can't find a citation, but I remember reading somewhere that we have endogenous enzymes that can undo and repair some glycation damage. I have a hunch that fasting or half-fasting/juice-fasting, anything that turns on autophagy, might also activate these enzymes. Watch the documentary "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead" to see the effect of juice fasting in action. Your next best bet is to take anti-glycation supplements, eat and exercise in a way that stops them from forming. Pycnogenol has a pretty good list of supplements there. I would add cinnamon verum, beta-alanine, fo ti, apple cider vinegar, tocotrienols. Anything containing glycosides like dandelion root or grape seed helps. Pycnogenol decreases glycation and will also have a good effect on your skin. Two warnings about his list though - benfotiamine is one of the best you could take, but it could increases cancer risk by 100% at sustained higher doses (around 800mg a day) but you really only need to take 150mg to 250mg (after a loading dose of 1 gram for a week or two.) I take it myself. Second, lipoid acid is powerful stuff. It eats up a lot of biotin and chelates metals from your body, including heavy metals. It has a very short short half. If you take it, you have to take it in at least three divided doses throughout the day or you risk damage by moving heavy metals around your body, but not out. If you start, you have to take it for at least it month. You need to take biotin while on LA. Long term use might cause a copper deficiency.

For exercise, weight training reduces glycation, by forcing excess sugar into cells before they have a chance to stick to cells and undergo browning. It increases insulin sensitivity keeps blood sugar in check. I do not recommend running because of the oxidative stress that it causes, which could lead to an increase in glycation. Walking is better.

Last thing, you'll want to try keeping blood sugar low without getting into hypoglycemic range and avoid spikes in blood sugar by eating more slowly and avoiding refined carbs. Eat plenty of fibre. Avoid excess fructose as it glycates more readily than other sugars, that means avoiding supersweet mutant hybrid fruits, or at eating them with lots of greens or the peel.

Thanks for the inf, I have been thinking about a cleanse for a while now. Thing is, aside from crepey skin in places I dont think I have too much effects of glycation yet - blood tests are good but I'm worried about the past catching up to me so I hope to do as much as I can to prevent the nasty stuff coming out. I've been low calorie-high nutrient for a while now, although I dotnt think Ive been getting all the nutrients right so have to sort that out. I'm taking benfotiamine but low dose so maybe I'll up that. i know about the cancer risk but somehow that doesnt worry me for now because of the low dose.
What someone on this thread said about supplements about to get pricey - guess its time to ordre in bulk before that happens?

#8 ViolettVol

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:01 PM

Not reverse but rather reduce advanced glycation end products:

Other Natural Products that Reduce Glycation and AGE Formation

  • Benfotiamine, a lipid-soluble form of thiamine, vitamin B1
  • Tomato paste
  • Resveratrol, inositol, and others
  • Pyridoxamine, a form of vitamin B6
  • Carnosine
  • Curcumin
  • Rosemary
  • Alpha-lipoic acid1
  • Flavonoids luteolin, rutin, quercetin, kaempferol, and EGCG
An AGE-Breaking Drug that Has Been Around for Nearly Forever but May Never Get FDA Approval:

ALT-71117—this drug actually breaks previously formed “irreversible” AGEs. Might be nice to have, if you could get it. But with a price tag of about $800,000,000 to get FDA approval, it is a wonder that anything gets approved, and the very few large companies that can afford this price want to make sure things remain the same. Hence the recent introduction of a 1300-page Good Manufacturing Practices for dietary supplements rules and regulations from the FDA. “Let’s clean up (Order! We need order!) the dietary supplement industry by getting rid of these small, pesky, innovative companies.” We can anticipate significant price increases in dietary supplements as a result of the increased costs of complying with all these rules and regulations, as well as greatly reduced competition in the industry as thousands of the current 15,000 mostly small businesses go belly-up. But then, getting rid of your competitors with the help of the FDA’s guns by lobbying (and paying them user’s fees) is standard practice of oligopolists.

Link:

http://www.life-enha...ate.asp?id=1869


Can we do sth about this, some sort of initiative? It's ridiculouds that drugs that really harm people have fda approval and supplements face all this scrutiny and problems.

#9 platypus

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:24 PM

You should try to control postprandial blood sugar levels. I was considering metformin but decided that Apple Cider Vinegar was sufficient for me at the moment.

#10 ViolettVol

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:45 PM

You should try to control postprandial blood sugar levels. I was considering metformin but decided that Apple Cider Vinegar was sufficient for me at the moment.

how do you use it?

#11 platypus

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 07:00 PM


You should try to control postprandial blood sugar levels. I was considering metformin but decided that Apple Cider Vinegar was sufficient for me at the moment.

how do you use it?

Two tablespoons in a glass of water before each meal - I've learned to almost like the taste.

#12 Googoltarian

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 07:06 PM

Is somebody aware of ALT-711 side effects, or metabolites? I can get some, and if its safe, I can also test it.

ALT-711 is really a simple compound, if it would ever turn to be miracle drug it could be made very cheaply.

#13 niner

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 10:17 PM

ALT711 wasn't approved by the FDA because it didn't do what the company was trying to get it approved for. They were shooting for something that would reverse hypertension, and the drug just wasn't very effective at that. The FDA has to look at the data provided with regards to the indication that's being claimed, so they were just doing what they're "supposed to" do. The fact that it wasn't approved for hypertension might make it a "failed" hypertension drug, but it still has a role in other conditions, like diabetic nephropathy. However, if it doesn't get approved for something, then it isn't going to be on the market as a pharmaceutical. On the other hand, it IS on the market as a "research chemical". Just google it; it's out there.

As platypus mentions, if you aren't diabetic, most of the glycation you get is caused by postprandial sugar spikes. Does ACV really help there? Two tablespoons seems like a lot to drink. 1kgcoffee had some good suggestions to reduce postprandial spikes and glycation. Generally speaking, fats, proteins, and fiber are your friends in that they will tend to slow the absorption of sugars. If you have to eat sweets, it would be better to eat them after a big meal. Eating slowly might help if you really drag a meal out. If it means that you chew your food longer, you might get the opposite effect, since you'd be accelerating digestion. Avoiding sugars and high GI carbs is probably the best thing you can do. I would avoid fruit juices, although fruit in solid form is probably OK on balance.

#14 Sillewater

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 01:45 AM

Chris Masterjohn has written a post on glycation: http://blog.choleste...ome-from-o.html
Gist is that glycated proteins result from all macronutrients due to metabolism.

Here is something good for ellagic acid:

Biochem J. 2011 Nov 8. [Epub ahead of print]
Ellagic Acid - A New Antiglycating Agent: Inhibition of Nε-(carboxymethyl)lysine.
Muthenna P, Akileshwari C, Reddy GB.

Non-enzymatic glycation is a complex series of reactions between reducing sugars and amino groups of proteins. Accumulation of advanced glycation endproducts (AGE) due to non-enzymatic glycation has been related to several diseases associated with aging and diabetes. Formation of AGE is accelerated in hyperglycemic conditions, which alters structure and function of long-lived proteins, thereby contribute to long-term diabetic complications. This study describes AGE inhibition and the mechanism of action of new antiglycating agent, ellagic acid (EA), a flavonoid present in many dietary sources. Inhibition of AGE formation by EA was demonstrated with different proteins viz eye lens total soluble protein (TSP), hemoglobin (Hb), lysozyme and BSA using divergent glycating agents like fructose, ribose and methylglyoxal by a set of complementary methods. These results suggest that antiglycating action of EA seems to involve, apart from the inhibition of a few fluorescent AGE, predominantly inhibition of Nε-(carboxyethyl)lysine (CEL) through scavenging of dicarbonyl compounds. Further, MALDI-ToF/ToF analysis confirms inhibition of formation of CEL on lysozyme upon in vitro glycation by EA. Prevention of glycation-mediated β-sheet formation in Hb and lysozyme by EA authenticate its antiglycating ability. Inhibition of glycosylated Hb formation in human blood under ex vivo high glucose conditions signifies the physiological antiglycating potential of EA. We have also determined the effectiveness of EA against loss of eye lens transparency through inhibition of AGE in lens organ culture system. These findings establish the antiglycating potential of EA and its in vivo utility for controlling AGE-mediated diabetic pathologies by EA.

PMID: 22060242 Free full text


edit: fixed missing abstract

Edited by niner, 14 November 2011 - 02:38 AM.





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