29 replies to this topic

[steampoweredgod]

Hi, recently a new supplement using simple inexpensive ingredients came to market exclusively in 44 UK, Spain, and Canada spas, it's from unilever(researcher John Casey). The ingredients used are lycopene, omega 3, vitamin c & e, and soy isoflavones, widely available and easy to obtain.

As I already have easy access to all these supplements, I was wondering if anyone with access to said spas have managed to see the supplement package(which likely has nutritional information) and knows dosage of the various ingredients.

Edited by steampoweredgod, 16 November 2011 - 03:08 AM.

[niner]

Hi, recently a new supplement using simple inexpensive ingredients came to market exclusively in 44 UK, Spain, and Canada spas, it's from unilever(researcher John Casey). The ingredients used are lycopene, omega 3, vitamin c & e, and soy isoflavones, widely available and easy to obtain.

As I already have easy access to all these supplements, I was wondering if anyone with access to said spas have managed to see the supplement package(which likely has nutritional information) and knows dosage of the various ingredients.

It looks as though it's designed for post menopausal women. Would it work on other people as well? Maybe not as well, but it would probably still work. The soy isoflavones may have effects at the estrogen receptor. I doubt that the precise dose of each ingredient is that critical. Probably you could just supplement with these substances, using normal supplement dosages. The anti-wrinkle formulation was dosed three times a day. If you use that frequency, then you should try to get low dosage supplements, or split them up in some way, as these compounds have side effects at higher dosages which may be undesirable.

[steampoweredgod]

It looks as though it's designed for post menopausal women. Would it work on other people as well? Maybe not as well, but it would probably still work. The soy isoflavones may have effects at the estrogen receptor. I doubt that the precise dose of each ingredient is that critical. Probably you could just supplement with these substances, using normal supplement dosages. The anti-wrinkle formulation was dosed three times a day. If you use that frequency, then you should try to get low dosage supplements, or split them up in some way, as these compounds have side effects at higher dosages which may be undesirable.

The photos shown in a yahoo article (attached), look very promising. I believe it is likely to work on other groups as I assume there's likely no sex specific difference on skin that would spare it from the gene expression changes induced, and boosting collagen production if the changes do occur should have a positive effect.

I already consume optimal doses of omega 3 through fish oil, and vitamin e through nuts. Vitamin c I assume 500mg should be good. But not so sure about lycopene and the isoflavones. Isoflavone consumption from food or supplements can easily go all the way from 10+mg to 100+mg.

Attached Files

•  skin before after.jpg   12.54KB   79 downloads

Edited by steampoweredgod, 16 November 2011 - 04:43 AM.

[MrHappy]

It works. There are a lot of similarities with this to my nootropic stack and I also noticed big improvements to skin elasticity and wrinkles.

[niner]

It works. There are a lot of similarities with this to my nootropic stack and I also noticed big improvements to skin elasticity and wrinkles.

Did you get hold of this particular mixture from one of the spas, or did you just take something like these compounds. I think most of us take at least some of them...

[MrHappy]

It was a happy coincidence. Turns out what's good for building/replenishing brain/nervous tissue is also good for building/replenishing epithelial tissue!

[GhostBuster]

It works. There are a lot of similarities with this to my nootropic stack and I also noticed big improvements to skin elasticity and wrinkles.

I think that there is a good chance that the reduction of wrinkles is related to your choline/uridine protocol. There were no supplements in your list for which I could attribute the reduction of wrinkles but those two that I didnt know (except grape seed extract). Now that I check reviews at iherb, there are similar testimonies from people using Alpha GPC and RNA supplements,.

Edited by GhostBuster, 21 November 2011 - 01:57 AM.

[MrHappy]

Sure, both of those could easily be the cause.. Although, did you notice the matching ingredients in my regime and the OPs product discovery?

"omega 3, vitamin c & e, and soy isoflavone .." .. Those are also in my regime, although I'm using soy lecithin, which while related, is quite different to soy isoflavone..

The only one that I'm obtaining from diet and not supplements is lycopene.

So.. too many possibilities and I'm currently unwilling to split my regime in the name of science right now.. :P Could be all of them working synergistically, could be just one of them, eg. a-gpc or gse... I suspect the former, given what I've been reading about membrane formation.

[GhostBuster]

Sure, both of those could easily be the cause.. Although, did you notice the matching ingredients in my regime and the OPs product discovery?

"omega 3, vitamin c & e, and soy isoflavone .." .. Those are also in my regime, although I'm using soy lecithin, which while related, is quite different to soy isoflavone..

The only one that I'm obtaining from diet and not supplements is lycopene.

So.. too many possibilities and I'm currently unwilling to split my regime in the name of science right now.. :P Could be all of them working synergistically, could be just one of them, eg. a-gpc or gse... I suspect the former, given what I've been reading about membrane formation.

If it was due to omega 3, vitamin c and e, we would already knew it, since those are commonly used supplements. Sure they are in a way good for the skin, but significant wrinkle reduction is serious stuff. I think the key ingredient in the commercial product is soya isoflavone, that is not on your menu.

http://www.ergo-log....ysmoothens.html

[GhostBuster]

Sure, both of those could easily be the cause.. Although, did you notice the matching ingredients in my regime and the OPs product discovery?

"omega 3, vitamin c & e, and soy isoflavone .." .. Those are also in my regime, although I'm using soy lecithin, which while related, is quite different to soy isoflavone..

The only one that I'm obtaining from diet and not supplements is lycopene.

So.. too many possibilities and I'm currently unwilling to split my regime in the name of science right now.. :P Could be all of them working synergistically, could be just one of them, eg. a-gpc or gse... I suspect the former, given what I've been reading about membrane formation.

According to internet sources (...) alpha gpc increases hgh. Hgh may have anti aging effect on the skin - > less wrinkles. If this is how it works, you can also expect to have more lean mass and less fat.

Effects of human growth hormone in men over 60 years old.

RESULTS:

In group 1, the mean plasma IGF-I level rose into the youthful range of 500 to 1500 U per liter during treatment, whereas in group 2 it remained below 350 U per liter. The administration of human growth hormone for six months in group 1 was accompanied by an 8.8 percent increase in lean body mass, a 14.4 percent decrease in adipose-tissue mass, and a 1.6 percent increase in average lumbar vertebral bone density (P less than 0.05 in each instance). Skin thickness increased 7.1 percent (P = 0.07). There was no significant change in the bone density of the radius or proximal femur. In group 2 there was no significant change in lean body mass, the mass of adipose tissue, skin thickness, or bone density during treatment.

CONCLUSIONS:

Diminished secretion of growth hormone is responsible in part for the decrease of lean body mass, the expansion of adipose-tissue mass, and the thinning of the skin that occur in old age.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2355952

[MrHappy]

Correct - a-gpc increases HGH, so that's one possibility. I have also been losing fat and gaining muscle, which I had been attributing to increased HGH. I like it a lot.

GSE / resveratrol - also known to have anti-aging effects. One of my neighbours is 65, looks like 45 and has been taking that for decades.
Vitamin E - well known for skin.

Uridine/DHA enhances metabolic processes, amongst so many other impressive benefits, so another possibilty.

The other ingredients match that other product above

[nupi]

Maybe it's psychological more than anything, but I think I have noticed a slight improvement in facial lines since starting to take 1-2g EPA/0.5-1g DHA per day (usually closer to the lower end of the range) about 4 months ago. I coincidentally also started a multi with 3mg of lycopene around that time. Finally, I also eat quite a bit of almonds (maybe 80-100g on average) instead of other, unhealthy snacks [1]. I was using Alpha GPC and CDP Choline for a while but have now since stopped - but with rumours around Alpha GPC causing GH inducement I might start again - even though it is a rather pricey supplement

I have not done any significant changes to my skin care regime (aside of more regularly using cleaning gel which may or may not make much of a difference for 2 showers/day people).

But people have been telling me that I look very young for a long time now - I guess being a heliophobe and using SPF50 face cream actually does work.


[1] This might indeed be despite losing weight as I am not sure I lost any but people keep telling me I look even thinner than usual - I have not been on a scale for ages but I guess it is possible as Wellbutrin is known to be a pretty effective appetite supressant and I occasionally really have to force me to go eat dinner

Edited by nupi, 25 November 2011 - 05:51 AM.

[steampoweredgod]

As I've heard protein intake affects collagen synthesis and bone formation, I wonder whether this sort of supplement would also affect collagen formation there and therefore improve bone health. Given that bone health can be affected by CR or Protein Restriction, it may be of benefit there if it does indeed affect collagen formation in bone.

This study
http://www.niams.nih...s_bone_loss.asp
80-120mg

suggest little effect at the doses given for soy isoflavones, though the vitamin D supplementation was way too low from what I've heard. It would be interesting to know how the isoflavone content of this skin supplement compares. Is it more, less, similar? Where is the study describing the Double blind study going to be published(it should have supplement ingredient details)?

[steampoweredgod]

CR and Protein Restriction affect bone health. Collagen synthesis is said to be involved in bone formation, and some studies have suggested soy may ameliorate bone loss in women.

A recent bone study with 80-120mg isoflavones, found only mild bone benefit at 120mg in postmenopausal women, though the study supplemented with only 600iu of vitamin D which is too little imho. How much isoflavones are used in this supplement in comparison? where will the double blind skin supplement study be published for peer review(the study should indicate ingredient amounts)?

It would be nice if one can get both wrinkle and bone health benefits.

Checking the new scientist article proved enlightening

Unilever's blend includes isoflavones from soya. These activate oestrogen receptors that trigger the skin to make collagen Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology, DOI: 10.1016/s0273-2300(03)00091-6). Another ingredient in the capsules is omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids taken from fish oil, which activate a master gene called PPAR that is also involved in collagen synthesis (Journal of Lipid Research, DOI: 10.1194/jlr.m800614-jlr200).

IT would be interesting to access these studies, to see dose-effect information

Edited by steampoweredgod, 26 November 2011 - 10:59 PM.

[steampoweredgod]

I've researched some more and found the supplement is called "strength within", googling for pics provided package pics but've not been able to get a good view of the nutrition panel.

[steampoweredgod]

I've read conflicting info regarding soy and thyroid function. It would be interesting to see which of the isoflavones affect it, and which are involved in the skin benefits.

[steampoweredgod]

Update:
Heard a short term Harvard study on women found no adverse thyroid effects at 90mg isoflavone levels. It would be interesting to see what happens long term, would it be safe to assume that if iodine deficiency is avoided there would be no problems from soy or is there reason to consider even this level troublesome?

[nupi]

If someone has access to a lab, the Product can be bought online at dovespa.co.uk...

[steampoweredgod]

If someone has access to a lab, the Product can be bought online at dovespa.co.uk...

What's likeliest the most powerful part of the compound the soy isoflavone, affects thyroid function, while such is ideal, one would need very advanced endocrinology knowledge to initiate longterm trial.

Another compound "appears" to powerfully reverses collagen synthesis via gene expression modification in rats, restoring bone mass and skin quality(needs verification.). It would be interesting to see the results in humans. Though the compound must be consumed in moderation and with a transition phase to increase to optimal dose.

The compound is called xylitol. Long term restoration of collagen regeneration and recycling, as well as inhibition of senescent pathway*(as if the cells disappeared) via mtor inhibition(via temporary periods of protein deprivation, with ideal macro micronutrient compounds), could in theory restore skin quality over a period of time.

Ideally a better compound is found that can be consumed like koolaid en mass and is extremely cheap, such that one can do without having to pay attention to dosage. Science of Gene Expression should eventually provide solutions for such developments.

Edited by steampoweredgod, 02 March 2012 - 07:27 AM.

[nupi]

I get some Xylitol from chewing gum already :P Also helps your teeth and it is fairly cheap.

[VesperLynd]

http://www.essential...44821&start=175

This thread, toward the last page, has a list of articles related to anti-aging skin studies and isoflavones.


MrHappy - is there a link to your protocol and sources?

Thanks, VL

[Guardian4981]

Isn't xylitol a sweetener???

[tea76]

I eat at least one carrot every day, and usually also a bunch of baby tomatoes. Would that be sufficient to cover the lycopene, or should I take considerably larger amounts of these foods?

By the way, is it a good idea for men to consume soy isoflavones, considering it has some sort of relationship to estrogen?

Edited by ecglsd, 12 January 2013 - 07:54 PM.

[ironfistx]

By the way, is it a good idea for men to consume soy isoflavones, considering it has some sort of relationship to estrogen?

I was wondering this, too.

[ironfistx]

I'm 32 and have pretty noticeable crows feet and recently have noticed that I have parenthesis wrinkles that are visible even when I'm not smiling. I searched and found this thread.

I'd like to take steps to either reduce what I have or prevent it from getting worse.

[blood]

A substance in tomatoes, possibly lycopene, apparently promotes "procollagen" synthesis which in turn reduces skin wrinkling.

From http://www.ergo-log.com/tomatoskin.html


Tomato puree protects skin against aging
Eat ten tablespoons of tomato puree a day, and you can reverse your skin’s aging process. Dermatologists at the universities of Manchester and Newcastle announced this at the congress of the British Society for Investigative Dermatology. Tomato puree stimulates the manufacture of the protein procollagen in the skin. Procollagen gives the skin more structure and makes it stronger.
The researchers presented a small study they did with ten test subjects. For three months the subjects ate 55 g of tomato puree mixed with 10 g olive oil daily. The oil was added to increase the uptake of the bioactive substances in the tomato puree.
After the three months, the researchers discovered that not only had the production of procollagen in the skin ‘significantly increased’, but that the skin was also 30 percent more resistant to the harmful effects of UV radiation. UV radiation damages the DNA of skin cells, and thus accelerates the aging of the skin.
The protective effect of the tomato puree was comparable to using a light sun cream. The researchers warned however that tomato puree is not a substitute for sun cream, but that it can help.
Researcher and dermatologists, Lesley Rhodes of the University of Manchester is pleased with the result. "These increasing levels suggest potential reversal of the skin ageing process", she says. "These weren't huge amounts of tomato we were feeding the group. It was the sort of quantity you would easily manage if you were eating a lot of tomato-based meals."
The researchers suspect that lycopene is the active ingredient in tomato puree. However, if you add lycopene in pure form it only has a weak protective effect on the skin, the Brits think.

[nowayout]

This is just prettily packaged nonsense to separate the wealthy from their money.

[ironfistx]

55g of tomato puree and 10g of olive oil? A tablespoon is about 28g, so that's like two tablespoons of tomato puree per day.

If that prevented wrinkles wouldn't Italians be the least wrinkly people on the planet?

[Guardian4981]

I wonder if cooking the tomato puree degrades the beneficial compounds?

[Just Kelly]

Cooking tomatoes makes the lycopene more bioavailable.
This article is pretty interesting http://researchnews....ve/lycoproc.htm