The reason the MagT study stirred so much interest was because they claimed it could do it with a smaller dose...
I wholeheartedly agree. Please kindly note that I have not stated that PER ORAL administration of MAGNESIUM L-THREONATE does not have superiority over PER ORAL adminstration of other MAGNESIUM compounds in relation to bioavailabilty; and if MAGNESIUM L-THREONATE has a low tendency for inducing a LAXATIVE effect then that is another plus point for it, akin to say MAGNESIUM MALATE or MAGNESIUM GLYCINATE which also yields a low LAXATIVE effect relative to other MAGNESIUM compounds when taken PER ORALLY.
However, please kindly note that at the moment there simply lacks substantiated evidence demonstrating whether or not MAGNESIUM L-THREONATE is in fact superior to other MAGNESIUM compounds; and all I am saying is to 'take with a pinch of salt' the HYPE put about by the MAGNESIUM L-THREONATE camp. This is not the first instance of a new kid on the block being OVERHYPED by certain parties (I won't name names, but I am sure you can think of a few examples) only to fall short of it's reported claims.
Essentially the jury is still out regards MAGNESIUM L-THREONATE. If further studies are conducted and conclusively demonstrate that MAGNESIUM L-THREONATE is indeed superior in any respect, then I will most certainly adjust my perspective on the compound accordingly.
Please don't get me wrong. I am not the sort to knock things just for the sake of it. I was very interested in reading the marketing spiel regarding MAGNESIUM L-THREONATE and in conducting my investigation regarding whether or not said claims are in fact substantiated I would have loved to discover that it is so; however, I was most disappointed to discover that there is in fact a distinct lack of conclusive substantiated evidence to support the claims being made. And I simply cannot advocate singing the praises of something for which there simply does not yet exist substantiated evidence.
I am not telling people not to use MAGNESIUM L-THREONATE; I am simply correctly pointing out that as far as the current scientific evidence goes, other forms, including MAGNESIUM SULFATE, will provide just as effective results, but at a fraction of the cost; and as such that should be borne in mind
and in fact, it was formulated to be selective for the brain.
It is my understanding that it was in fact formulated to provide greater absorption into the brain, as opposed to being selectively absorbed into the brain (i.e. not peripherally); but as already stated, the evidence currently available appears to be insufficient to properly demonstrate whether MAGNESIUM L-THREONATE does in fact achieve greater absorption over other forms, such as SULFATE, MALATE or GLYCINATE.
you are the first person to claim to have noticed an equal effect from using good old epsom salt, specially transdermally. I am for whatever works and costs me less money.
What's more, the issue of whether topical magnesium even works, has been an issue hotly debated here. I personally think it does, based on some studies I've read, but never bothered to try it.
On top of that, you claim that topical mag. works just as well at elevating brain mag as Magt. ? Bravo to you sir.
Please kindly see the following: Report on Absorption of magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) across the skin
Dr RH Waring, School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham. B15 2TT, U.K.
Clinician in charge - Dr Sarah Nuttall, Department of Clinical Pharmacology,
Medical School, University of Birmingham
Scientist in charge - Dr Rosemary Waring, School of Biosciences, University of
Technician in charge - Mrs Liba Klovrza, School of Biosciences, University of
Subjects were recruited from the staff of the School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham. In all, 19 subjects (10M, 9F) were recruited for the various aspects of the study. All were in good health, and not on any current medication. No subject smoked more than 5 cigarettes/day or drank more than 2 units of alcohol/day. The ages ranged from 24-64 years.Analyses
Magnesium levels in blood and urine were measured by a flame photometric method using magnesium nitrate as a reference standard. Sulfate was measured by anion-specific high pressure liquid chromatography (hplc), calibrated with a turbidimetric method and with sodium sulfate standards.Results
After initial pilot studies, all volunteers took baths (temperatures 50-55°C) and stayed in the bath for 12 minutes. They added varying amounts of magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) to the bath before entry and ensured that the salts were completely in solution.Blood/Urine Samples
Blood samples were taken before the first bath, at 2h after the first bath and at 2h after the 7th
consecutive bath. Baths were taken daily at the same time for 7 days for the experiment. Urine samples were collected before the first bath and then 2h after the first bath and at all subsequent baths . Urine samples were also taken 24h after the last bath. All urine samples were corrected for creatinine content.Results Magnesium
Magnesium levels in blood are very tightly controlled. Of 19 subjects, all except 3 showed a rise in magnesium concentrations in plasma, though this was small in some cases. The values before the first bath were, mean 104.68 ± 20.76 ppm/ml; after the first bath the mean was 114.08 ± 25.83
ppm/ml. Continuation of bathing for 7 days in all except 2 individuals gave a rise to a mean of 140.98 ± 17.00ppm/ml. Prolonged soaking in Epsom salts therefore increases blood magnesium concentrations. Measurement of magnesium levels in urine showed a rise from the control level, mean 94.81 ± 44.26 ppm/ml to 198.93 ± 97.52 ppm/ml after the first bath
. Those individuals where the blood magnesium levels were not increased had correspondingly large increases in urinary magnesium showing that the magnesium ions had crossed the skin barrier and had been excreted via
the kidney, presumably because the blood levels were already optimal. Generally, urinary magnesium levels 24h after the first bath fell from the initial values found after day 1 (mean 118. 43 ± 51.95) suggesting some retention of magnesium in tissues after bathing as blood levels were still high.Measurement of magnesium levels in urine 24h after the 7th bath gave values almost back to control levels.Sulfate
Free inorganic sulfate levels in plasma rose in all subjects after bathing in Epsom salts (mean pre-bath, 3.28 nmol/mg protein ± 1.40, 2h after 1st
bath, mean 5.59 nmol/mg protein ± 3.08). In some individuals, the level post-bath reached > 9 nmol/mg protein. The plasma levels after 7 days showed a mean of 3.57 nmol/mg protein ± 1.70, lower than the peak value, suggesting that sulfate stores in the body were being filled. Analysis of the urine samples again showed an increase in sulfate concentrations (pre-bath mean 623.74 ± 352.34 nmols/ml, 2h post bath 1093.30 ± 388.79 nmoles/ml, 24h after 1st
bath 899.83 ± 483.16 nmols/ml. Sulfate excretion in urine in some individuals was only slightly higher after 7 days bathing than the pre-bath levels.Other Factors Gender Differences
Males had slightly higher levels of blood magnesium than females (109.0 ± 14.4 ppm/ml v. 87.7 ± 6.3 ppm/ml. Females had higher free plasma sulfate than males (3.26 ± 0.86 nmol/mg. v. 2.54 ± 0.53 nmol/ug) although these differences were not significant. The mean levels of both magnesium and sulfate were almost identical for males and females after bathing
.Optimum Epsom Salt Levels
There was a wide individual variation in this parameter. However, all individuals had significant rises in plasma magnesium and sulfate at a level of 1% Epsom salts .This equates to 1g MgS04
/100ml water; 600g Epsom salts/60 litres, the standard size UK bath taken in this project (~15 US gallons). However, most volunteers had significantly raised Mg/S04
levels on baths with 400g MgS04
added. Above the 600g/bath level, volunteers complained that the water felt ‘soapy’.
Although this project did not specifically set out to answer the question of how frequently baths should be taken, the results are consistent with saturation of the skin (and possibly the gut ) transporters .These proteins are not well understood or described but, at least for sulfate, they are believed to be high affinity but low capacity.The values obtained suggest that most people would find maximal benefit by bathing 2 or 3 times/ week, using 500-600g Epsom salts each time.Other factors No volunteer complained of any adverse effects, evem at MgSO4 levels of 2.5%
. Possible effects on the kidneys were tested by measuring urinary protein content. This did not change significantly, whichever Epsom salt levels were used, over the 8-day period. Kidney damage is therefore not an issue.
In other experiments using excised human skin, we found that sulfate does penetrate across the skin barrier. This is quite rapid so probably involves a sulfate transporter protein. We did not see any Mg penetration, but these experiments were conducted for a short time at only 37 degrees as opposed to the 50 degree bath temperature.To check this, 2 volunteers wore ‘patches’ where solid MgSO4 was applied directly to the skin and sealed with a waterproof plaster. Plasma/urine analysis confirmed that both Mg and sulfate levels had increased so this is potentially a valuable way of ensuring Epsom salts dosage if bathing is not available. Interestingly, both volunteers, who were > 60 years old, commented without prompting that ‘rheumatic’ pains had disappeared.CONCLUSION Bathing in Epsom salts [Magnesium Sulfate] is a safe and easy way to increase sulfate and magnesium levels in the body.
inflammed brains are more permeable to everything so I'm not surprised MagS works for you.
Firstly, you are incorrect in stating that all "inflammed brains are more permeable to everything",
in that whilst it certainly is possible for the integrity of the BLOOD BRAIN BARRIER to become compromised is some instances of BRAIN INJURY, TRAUMA or ENCEPHALITIS, there are in fact many instances wherein the integrity of the BLOOD BRAIN BARRIER remains unaffected.
Secondly, my opinion is by no means due to my own personal experiences with using MAGNESIUM SULFATE. Please kindly note what I posted above:
I personally have utilized MAGNESIUM SULFATE adminstered TRANSDERMALLY and via IM/IV INJECTION to great effect myself, as well as with my patients within clinical practice.
I also have a close professional colleague who is a physician, who has similarly utilized MAGNESIUM SULFATE with his patients for many, many years, including [but not limited to] specifically using it within medical practice to effectively treat ENCEPHALITIS (BRAIN INFLAMMATION); and has confirmed its efficacy in elevating BRAIN MAGNESIUM LEVELS.
Your profile also says that you are pre-med ? I'm sure you haven't updated it in sometime. Since you refer to your patients in a clinical setting, that means you are done with Medical School and Residency? That's great! What's your specialty?
OK, firstly please can you drop the antagonistic sarcastic / condescending tone, since we are both adults and hopefully friends who are having an intelligent academic debate?
Secondly, I don't like to blow my own trumpet so to speak, so I would ask do you REALLY want me to bore you (and others reading this) with my life history? I am very happy to do so if you wish
When I was doing my OB/GYN rotation in medical school, I also had the change to administer IV Mag. to many patients with Preeclampsia/Eclampsia. Since I was already into magnesium, I always asked to express how it made them feel and to report other subjective observations they had. I always got the same, expected answer: burning and stinging.
Please don't take this the wrong way, with the utmost respect, if your patient's suffered burning "burning and stinging"
after you administered MAGNESIUM SULFATE via IV INJECTION / INFUSION then either you did not dilute it properly or you did not administer it using the correct protocol. Administration of MAGNESIUM SULFATE via IV INJECTION / INFUSION done correctly does not cause "burning and stinging"
Furthermore, there are ways to administer MAGNESIUM SULFATE via IM INJECTION that does not cause "burning and stinging"
And soaking in a hot bath within which ESPOM SALTS (MAGNESIUM SULFATE) have been dissolved for 12+ minutes won't cause "burning and stinging"
During the year between the time the MagT study came out and the first chinese companies were selling it, there were a couple of posts looking into ways of duplicating that effect. We even entertained the idea of letting magnesium ascorbate dissolve in water for a while, in the hopes that some threonic acid would form. It's silly when you think about it, but we never assume that MagT would be available commercially. It's been a while since I looked at that post but I cannot remember a single person reporting spectacular experiences from oral or transdermal use. This is why I found your post a bit surprising.
Please kindly note that I do not advocate PER ORAL adminstration of MAGNESIUM SULFATE as the preferred choice.
I recommend adminstration of MAGNESIUM SULFATE via TRANSDERMAL or INJECTION as the preferred choices.
Please also note that just because people within this forum community are not aware of something or currently using it does not make it ineffective
Mg2+ concentration is higher in the cerebrospinal fluid than in plasma. This concentration gradient is maintained by active transport process (this implies that it's saturable), which appears to regulate and limit the amount of Mg2+ that can be loaded into the brain. In fact, increasing plasma [Mg2+] by 3-fold via intravenous infusion of MgSO4 for 5 days fails to elevate brain Mg2+ content in rats (Kim et al., 1996).
In human, dramatic increase (100%–300%) in blood [Mg2+] via intravenous infusion of MgSO4 corresponds to elevation in cerebrospinal fluid [Mg2+] only by 10%–19% (McKee et al., 2005).
Therefore, boosting brain Mg2+ via chronic oral magnesium supplement, the necessary condition for testing the influence of elevating brain Mg2+on memory function, is even more challenging. Therefore, we developed a new, highly bioavailable Mg2+ compound (magnesium-L-threonate, MgT; for chemical structure, see Figure S1 available online), that could significantly increase Mg2+ in the brain via dietary supplementation.
Please kindly note that this quote simply confirms the point I have made within this thread, in that the sole argument from the MAGNESIUM L-THREONATE camp in support of their claims regarding its superiority is that MAGNESIUM SULFATE 'only' elevates CFS MAGNESIUM LEVELS by 10 - 19%; however, this argument is a fallacy
since the evidence demonstrates that MAGNESIUM L-THREONATE 'only' elevates CFS MAGNESIUM LEVELS by 10 - 19% as well; i.e. exactly the same amount