10 replies to this topic

[Eirik123]

So...I'm coming from a family where they live to be a hundred
So...I am 42, and I see my wrinkles coming. No less than others
So...I still get my fair shair of colds and similar
So...I feel tired every day. Low energy levels.

So...I begin to wonder

Should I drop almost my whole regime, and just go back to my vit C's`
I have always been a firm believer, but I am beginning do doubt.
Been taking supplements now for 24 years

Regime *

1000 - 10 000 MG c depending on circumstances
200-400 ie E
Alpha-Lipoic Acid with L-carnitine 225 mg + 525 mg
Multivitamin
Ginkgo Biloba
Reservatrol 40 mg
Q10 30 mg
Phosphatdylserine (spelled correctly?)
Omega 3
Blueberry extract
Prostate tablet
Melatonin from time to time

[nowayout]

That's what I did after 20 years of supplementing, after not achieving any visible benefits compared to some of my non-supplementing peers.

You are taking a shitload of antioxidants in megadoses that are likely counterproductive.  The oxidant theory of aging has been pretty much dead for a while, and various antioxidants have been shown to have deleterious consequences on exercise adaptation, cardiovascular adaptation and fitness, muscle repair, and so on.  Certain transgenic animals modified to produce higher amounts of endogenous antioxidants have been found to have shorter lives, not longer.  There is absolutely zero reason for supplementing antioxidants if you eat enough plants.

What are you even taking phosphatidylserine for?  Unless you have a medical condition justifying it, interfering with something as fundamental to life as cortisol metabolism can throw off many metabolic processes and could be part of what is making you tired.

Depending on what's in it, prostate supplements can interfere with androgen metabolism and cause various problems in some people including low energy, brain fog, and sexual problems.

Edited by viveutvivas, 23 February 2012 - 01:05 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

Eirik123, on 23 February 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Regime *

1000 - 10 000 MG c depending on circumstances (Drop it)
200-400 ie E (Most E is alpha tocopherol.. if yours is, drop it)
Alpha-Lipoic Acid with L-carnitine 225 mg + 525 mg (Na-RALA is iffy ...ALA you should drop. ALCAR you can keep at your age)
Multivitamin (Most are trash. If something like vimmortal, keep it)
Ginkgo Biloba (trash)
Reservatrol 40 mg (not enough, mostly likely a 50% extract. If a product like Revgenetic, keep taking but at much higher dose)
Q10 30 mg (there is some evidence to supplement this)
Phosphatdylserine (spelled correctly?) (why? dont know enough to comment)
Omega 3 (most definitely keep)
Blueberry extract (drop it, eat wild organic blueberries instead)
Prostate tablet (most are bunk)
Melatonin from time to time (lots of evidence to use nightly < 5mg)

So the bulk of your issue isn't that you use supplements, it is WHAT you are using. Most of it is needless, some of it can actually accelerate issues. I have the exact opposite experience with using supplements than you and Vive. I look younger, feel younger, and am in far better shape than my peers as evidenced by getting back in contact with people in prep for my 20 year highschool reunion. Not only that, I seem to recover faster from exercise and injury than the average member of my peer group.

[Eirik123]

mikeinnaples, on 23 February 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Eirik123, on 23 February 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Regime *

1000 - 10 000 MG c depending on circumstances (Drop it)
200-400 ie E (Most E is alpha tocopherol.. if yours is, drop it)
Alpha-Lipoic Acid with L-carnitine 225 mg + 525 mg (Na-RALA is iffy ...ALA you should drop. ALCAR you can keep at your age)
Multivitamin (Most are trash. If something like vimmortal, keep it)
Ginkgo Biloba (trash)
Reservatrol 40 mg (not enough, mostly likely a 50% extract. If a product like Revgenetic, keep taking but at much higher dose)
Q10 30 mg (there is some evidence to supplement this)
Phosphatdylserine (spelled correctly?) (why? dont know enough to comment)
Omega 3 (most definitely keep)
Blueberry extract (drop it, eat wild organic blueberries instead)
Prostate tablet (most are bunk)
Melatonin from time to time (lots of evidence to use nightly < 5mg)

So the bulk of your issue isn't that you use supplements, it is WHAT you are using. Most of it is needless, some of it can actually accelerate issues. I have the exact opposite experience with using supplements than you and Vive. I look younger, feel younger, and am in far better shape than my peers as evidenced by getting back in contact with people in prep for my 20 year highschool reunion. Not only that, I seem to recover faster from exercise and injury than the average member of my peer group.

Very interesting. What are you using then? Theory is one thing, reality another. I'm not interested in holding onto my supplements while seeing no results. The vitamin C hype is over also?

[Eirik123]

Anyone please guide me on this, because my philosophy has been the more the better.....

I've read that one should not go from a high dosage of vitamin C to a very low dosage in one go. That will be harmful for the body. I've read that one should lower the dosage gradually. Is this correct as you see it?
Do I have to reduce the dosage gradually on other supplements?

Should I go completely off supplements for a while, as you see it, to establish a kind of "baseline" to measure effect against?

When reintroducing supplements, which one should I go for? Only omega and q10?

What about beta-glucane 1.3/1.6 ..... Is that a kind of supplement that one could try alone without anything else?




Let's say that I go without supplements for a month or two.
...and then introduce one supplement
How long should I measure for obvious effects? I.e. less sick, not tired etc.

[hippocampus]

I don't see any reason to supplement beta-glucan - you can eat some oats every day (unless you are on 100% paleo or have any serious disease).

[niner]

Supplements aren't an all or nothing affair.  The first objective is good nutrition; you need to get enough of the large number of micronutrients that are needed for good health.   If your genetics are great and your diet is spectacularly great and you live in a place that's blessed with the right minerals in the water and soil, and you seek out certain unusual foods, and you spend a lot of time in the sun without sunscreen, then you might wrinkle like a prune but you can throw away ALL supplements.   If you want to dodge the wrinkles, then stay out of the sun and wear your sunscreen, but you'd better supplement vitamin D.

I don't think you need to quit everything and get a baseline, nor do you need to taper anything on this list unless you are taking huge quantities.  10g of C is pretty huge.  You could taper that if you want, if you've been doing it for a long time.  Getting sick is usually a matter of getting exposed to a lot of viri and having poor barrier function in your upper respiratory tract.   You might want to see an allergist to evaluate lung function and presence of allergies.  Wash your hands regularly and try to avoid sick people.  I don't think you should try to evaluate the value of a supplement by how you feel as a general rule, though if something makes you feel bad you may need to avoid it or find a different form of it.

If you are like most people you should:

Fix your diet.  Reduce refined grains and wheat in general.  Try to avoid omega 6 industrial seed oils.  Eat lots of vegetables and fruit.  Eat fish and real meat in modest quantities.  Avoid cured/processed meat and processed/packaged food in general.  Consume as little sugar as you can.  

Exercise:  Weight bearing and a little cardio, at least; try not to spend too much time sitting.

Supplement the following:

Magnesium (200mg)
Vitamin D (1-2000 IU)
Vitamin K2 (45-90 mcg MK7)
Fish oil (2 g)
Iodine (150 mcg)
Probiotics (to taste)

Have you ever had a 25-OH-vitamin D level measured?  Thyroid function?

[nowayout]

mikeinnaples, on 23 February 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Eirik123, on 23 February 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Reservatrol 40 mg (not enough, mostly likely a 50% extract. If a product like Revgenetic, keep taking but at much higher dose)

I agree with most of your analysis, but why recommend resveratrol and why in higher doses?  There is no evidence for benefit even in rodents unless they are overweight or possibly diabetic, which I assume the OP isn't.  Not even Michael Rae is taking it.  And resveratrol makes some people feel bad.  The OP doesn't feel too great.  Not saying there is necessarily a relationship but who knows?

Edited by viveutvivas, 23 February 2012 - 04:28 PM.

[1kgcoffee]

How much do you exercise Eirik123? What kind of diet are you on?
Niner has a good list put together. I would drop most on yours, except for the carnitine (acetyl form), phosphatidylserine and melatonin (consistently). And *maybe* q10. I would also add apple cider vinegar, olive leaf extract, taurine, sublingual methyl b12 and maybe experiment with a couple others. Definitely drop the vitamin E, consider adding tocotrienols for a while to restore the balance.

Supplements are definitely helpful but you need to take the right ones and combine with proper diet and exercise.

[mikeinnaples]

viveutvivas, on 23 February 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

mikeinnaples, on 23 February 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Eirik123, on 23 February 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Reservatrol 40 mg (not enough, mostly likely a 50% extract. If a product like Revgenetic, keep taking but at much higher dose)

I agree with most of your analysis, but why recommend resveratrol and why in higher doses?  There is no evidence for benefit even in rodents unless they are overweight or possibly diabetic, which I assume the OP isn't.  Not even Michael Rae is taking it.  And resveratrol makes some people feel bad.  The OP doesn't feel too great.  Not saying there is necessarily a relationship but who knows?

1. Michael Rae is extremely conservative outside of CR for life extension. To be honest, have always found that odd because CR hasn't been proven to extend human lifespan yet either. However, Michael is human like the rest of us when it comes to championing a cause you believe in. I just wish he would post more in general rather than only seeming to make posts about studies that may debunk CR mimetics as he as seemed to of late. The guy is brilliant, and it would be nice to have him pick apart more things, more objectively. We would all benefit from it.

2. You will notice I didnt recommend resveratrol. My intent was to say, if you take resveratrol, take a quality supplement at a dosage that will provide benefit.

3. There IS evidence for benefit in resveratrol. In fact, resveratrol has probably been the most discussed supplement on these boards in the last 3 years. Read through the mountains of research, the comments from people picking apart some of the research in the resveratrol forum, and make your own opinion about whether or not it is worthy as a supplement. However, saying there is no evidence simply isn't correct.

[Mind]

Just remember that you are 42. It is time to expect natural wrinkles. No matter how good your genetics are. Supplements, diet, exercise, only slow the aging process.