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C60 Toxicity Concerns and anecdotal reports


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#271 sensei

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 12:46 AM

 

 

 


 

To be clear, I did not have headaches prior to taking the c-60 sunflower product.

 

 

This is an exact quote from one of your earlier posts 

 

"Before this, "headaches" sensations would come and go. I always thought of them as energetic phenomena and have never minded them. They were something to meditate through, and enough relaxation would clear it up and bring about a sense of peace. And so I was always of the mindset that I don't get headaches."

 

 

SO, you did get headaches -- you just didn't call them headaches.

 

 

I guess I did a bad job of explaining myself.
I was trying to describe my relationship to sensations in the head prior to taking the c60 sunflower. They were in the past always mild energetic and fleeting. So, I would commonly say to my friends and family, "I don't get headaches". 
Does that make sense?
I was attempting to highlight the contrast between now and then.

 

 

Yes, it makes sense that you had sensations that most people would likely call headaches, but you decided to call them fleeting sensations (that apparently lasted long enough that you had to "meditate through them".

 

It also makes sense that you are attempting to assign causality to a set of symptoms that has at least 1 known medical cause (MS) to the C60 sunflower.

 

Sunflower oil is apparently more stable with respect to UV and ultrasonication than Olive Oil.  (UV irradiation of pristine Olive oil (meaning no C60) results in the formation of toxic aldehydes in amounts to kill mice ) -- but the aldehyde formation from a decent night of drinking is much more.

 

To be even more clear -- if the entire dropper-full was toluene (867mg) -- your dose would be about 10 mg/kg -- almost 3 orders of magnitude below the lethal acute dose

 

 

Take the bottle to a laboratory and have them do a GCMS test on it -- that will certainly resolve the issue.


Edited by sensei, 01 January 2018 - 12:55 AM.

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#272 Ghanzo

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 02:20 AM

 

 

 

 


 

To be clear, I did not have headaches prior to taking the c-60 sunflower product.

 

 

This is an exact quote from one of your earlier posts 

 

"Before this, "headaches" sensations would come and go. I always thought of them as energetic phenomena and have never minded them. They were something to meditate through, and enough relaxation would clear it up and bring about a sense of peace. And so I was always of the mindset that I don't get headaches."

 

 

SO, you did get headaches -- you just didn't call them headaches.

 

 

I guess I did a bad job of explaining myself.
I was trying to describe my relationship to sensations in the head prior to taking the c60 sunflower. They were in the past always mild energetic and fleeting. So, I would commonly say to my friends and family, "I don't get headaches". 
Does that make sense?
I was attempting to highlight the contrast between now and then.

 

 

Yes, it makes sense that you had sensations that most people would likely call headaches, but you decided to call them fleeting sensations (that apparently lasted long enough that you had to "meditate through them".

 

It also makes sense that you are attempting to assign causality to a set of symptoms that has at least 1 known medical cause (MS) to the C60 sunflower.

 

Sunflower oil is apparently more stable with respect to UV and ultrasonication than Olive Oil.  (UV irradiation of pristine Olive oil (meaning no C60) results in the formation of toxic aldehydes in amounts to kill mice ) -- but the aldehyde formation from a decent night of drinking is much more.

 

To be even more clear -- if the entire dropper-full was toluene (867mg) -- your dose would be about 10 mg/kg -- almost 3 orders of magnitude below the lethal acute dose

 

 

Take the bottle to a laboratory and have them do a GCMS test on it -- that will certainly resolve the issue.

 

 

Apparently you didn't understand the point I was trying to get across. Which is fine, I may have written it poorly. The point is, there was a stark difference in wellbeing before and after ingesting the dropper full of sunflower c60. Before, there was absolutely no pain in the head, after... there is. If you would like me to clarify further, feel free to message me. But, I'm sure you won't need to do that.

What is related to this thread are the data, which I've documented. 

If more data is needed, I can possibly provide it.



#273 Turnbuckle

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 04:30 AM

 

If the c60 did produce free radicals when exposed to light and heat, wouldn't they be attached to the c60 molecule?
Likewise, would the carbon nanotubes and spectrum of fullerines be attached to the c60? 

 

 

 

 

 

You are putting too much emphasis on C60. Likely the worst actors would be other fullerenes. C70, for instance, is typically the second most prevalent fullerene and is known to go into the ER rather than the mitochondria (where it could potentially interfere with protein folding), and other fullerenes likely have their own particularities, but haven't been studied. Carbon nanotubes have been suspected of acting like asbestos, but that hasn't been proven so far as I know. Light and heat can produce free radicals and create adducts from the oil, and these create all sorts of new and unstudied chemical species. 



#274 sensei

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 09:03 AM

If the c60 did produce free radicals when exposed to light and heat, wouldn't they be attached to the c60 molecule?
Likewise, would the carbon nanotubes and spectrum of fullerines be attached to the c60?





You are putting too much emphasis on C60. Likely the worst actors would be other fullerenes. C70, for instance, is typically the second most prevalent fullerene and is known to go into the ER rather than the mitochondria (where it could potentially interfere with protein folding), and other fullerenes likely have their own particularities, but haven't been studied. Carbon nanotubes have been suspected of acting like asbestos, but that hasn't been proven so far as I know. Light and heat can produce free radicals and create adducts from the oil, and these create all sorts of new and unstudied chemical species.
Come on turnbuckle this is total crap one dropperful of whatever the C60 sunflower oil was is not enough to cause the bullshit psychosomatic crap that Gonzo is spouting off even if he ate a dropper full of toluene he would have less symptoms than he is reporting!!!

this is bullshit and a bunch of crap

let's just call it what it is rubbish, bollocks, Balderdash, pablum puke, gutter snipe crap, and again bullshit

Edited by sensei, 01 January 2018 - 09:09 AM.

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#275 Turnbuckle

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 11:21 AM

Come on turnbuckle this is total crap one dropperful of whatever the C60 sunflower oil was is not enough to cause the bullshit psychosomatic crap that Gonzo is spouting off even if he ate a dropper full of toluene he would have less symptoms than he is reporting!!!

 

 

What is going on with you, sensi? Is Bob Greska a friend of yours? Or are you just spouting off because you have no idea what is going on? Toluene isn't an issue  because Greska isn't using any. In fact, he says "we use no solvents," thus what he's selling appears to be the unpurified front end of the fullerene making process, mixed into oil in a large but unreported level. Unpurified soot from the process typically contains a spectrum of fullerenes and other carbon forms, but Greska doesn't say what his purity is, or even how much of this stuff he's putting into his oil to produce his "deep, rich black color."

 

 


Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 January 2018 - 11:44 AM.


#276 sensei

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 05:31 PM

 

Come on turnbuckle this is total crap one dropperful of whatever the C60 sunflower oil was is not enough to cause the bullshit psychosomatic crap that Gonzo is spouting off even if he ate a dropper full of toluene he would have less symptoms than he is reporting!!!

 

 

What is going on with you, sensi? Is Bob Greska a friend of yours? Or are you just spouting off because you have no idea what is going on? Toluene isn't an issue  because Greska isn't using any. In fact, he says "we use no solvents," thus what he's selling appears to be the unpurified front end of the fullerene making process, mixed into oil in a large but unreported level. Unpurified soot from the process typically contains a spectrum of fullerenes and other carbon forms, but Greska doesn't say what his purity is, or even how much of this stuff he's putting into his oil to produce his "deep, rich black color."

 

 

Don't know Greska from Gandhi,

 

One dropperful of such a mixture would be equivalent to the same amount and  spectrum of fullerenes, soot, and other carbon allotropes you would find in the charcoal coating on food from flame grilled meats and vegetables at a bar-b-que.

 

People don't have this range of persistent symptoms after eating a well done steak, charbroiled chicken or hamburgers.


Edited by sensei, 01 January 2018 - 05:40 PM.

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#277 Turnbuckle

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 07:45 PM

 

 

What is going on with you, sensi? Is Bob Greska a friend of yours? Or are you just spouting off because you have no idea what is going on? Toluene isn't an issue  because Greska isn't using any. In fact, he says "we use no solvents," thus what he's selling appears to be the unpurified front end of the fullerene making process, mixed into oil in a large but unreported level. Unpurified soot from the process typically contains a spectrum of fullerenes and other carbon forms, but Greska doesn't say what his purity is, or even how much of this stuff he's putting into his oil to produce his "deep, rich black color."

 

 

Don't know Greska from Gandhi,

 

One dropperful of such a mixture would be equivalent to the same amount and  spectrum of fullerenes, soot, and other carbon allotropes you would find in the charcoal coating on food from flame grilled meats and vegetables at a bar-b-que.

 

People don't have this range of persistent symptoms after eating a well done steak, charbroiled chicken or hamburgers.

 

 

You don't get fullerenes from barbecue. And pure soot doesn't get past the intestines, but dissolved fullerenes make it through and there are a number of them. In addition to C60 there is C20, C28, C70, C76, C82, C84, C86, C88, C90, and many others are possible. The toxicity for most is unknown, however, the second most abundant is C70 and that is known to go into the ER rather than only into the mitochondria. Before I knew that I tried a raw extract from SES that was 70% C60, 28% C70, and 2% higher fullerenes. I took an amount that contained 250 micrograms of C70 twice a day, and after several days I had a very scary reaction. I suspected it was interfering with protein folding, and that could be disastrous if someone were to keep taking it. As for the others, who knows where they go in the cell or what problems they might cause.

 

The results demonstrating that C70-based fullerenes are endocytosed and localize to ER differentiate from previously published results showing that endocytosed C60-based fullerenes localize to the mitochondria and lysosomes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...uman mast cells

 

 

Background on how fullerenes are made and purified--

 

Fullerenes can be produced through several developing methods which have their own advantages and disadvantages. Fullerenes can be synthesized by ablating graphite with a laser [1], burning graphite in a furnace [2], and by producing an arc across two graphite electrodes in an inert atmosphere [3]. Other methods include using negative ion/desorption chemical ionization techniques [4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13], benzene flame [14, 15], combustion method [16], and soot-free synthesis of C60[17]. At the present time, the most common method for synthesizing fullerenes is the Huffman-Kratschmer carbon arc technique [18]. In this method, pure carbon in the form of graphite was heated under plasma temperature by means of graphite electrodes in an inert atmosphere (usually helium). This method leads to the production of soot, in which the fullerenes have to be separated from. Until recently, only a few methods have been developed to separate fullerenes successfully. Most known separation methods employ a column chromatography technique.

 

https://link.springe.../2193-8865-3-45

 

 


Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 January 2018 - 08:01 PM.

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#278 sensei

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 04:39 PM

 


 

You don't get fullerenes from barbecue. And pure soot doesn't get past the intestines, but dissolved fullerenes make it through and there are a number of them. In addition to C60 there is C20, C28, C70, C76, C82, C84, C86, C88, C90, and many others are possible. The toxicity for most is unknown, however, the second most abundant is C70 and that is known to go into the ER rather than only into the mitochondria. Before I knew that I tried a raw extract from SES that was 70% C60, 28% C70, and 2% higher fullerenes. I took an amount that contained 250 micrograms of C70 twice a day, and after several days I had a very scary reaction. I suspected it was interfering with protein folding, and that could be disastrous if someone were to keep taking it. As for the others, who knows where they go in the cell or what problems they might cause.

 


 

 

Actually, all soot and charcoals contain some fullerene content -- including C60.

 

"Minute quantities of the fullerenes—in the form of C60, C70, C76, and C84 molecules—have been found in soot "

 

http://www.newworlde...entry/Fullerene

 

As you say -- UNDISSOLVED fullerenes and allotropes of carbon will not make it past the intestine. --

 

If it's BLACK sunflower oil-- that means the excess fullerenes above the solubility level for sunflower oil are undissolved.

 

You can't break chemistry and physics -- only so much C60/C70/Cxx will dissolve into sunflower oil -- the following is true -- yet the extra molecules are UNDISSOLVED

 

"Our Carbon-60™ Organic Sunflower Oil formula is a dark, rich black as each serving (2/3 of a dropper or 2/3 ml) has many, many, many times more single molecules of Carbon 60 than other Carbon 60 oil products. "

 

https://c-60.com/pag...wer-oil-special

 

 

he even says it -- so he can't get sued

 

"Dispersing these Carbon-60™ single molecules in our organic Sunflower Oil, allows the Carbon 60 molecules to stay suspended in the oil. 

 

https://c-60.com/pag...wer-oil-special

 

 

Like drinking activated charcoal

 

as far as C70

 

"

C70-carboxyfullerenes as efficient antioxidants to protect cells against oxidative-induced stress."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24150592

 

 

C70-Carboxyfullerenes as Efficient Antioxidants to Protect Cells against Oxidative-Induced Stress

 

 

"The use of a significantly low concentration of C70-carboxyfullerene as the antioxidative agent will benefit the therapeutic approaches aiming at alleviating ROS-induced injuries such as muscle disorder and arthritis."

 

http://pubs.acs.org/...rnalCode=aamick


Edited by sensei, 02 January 2018 - 04:51 PM.

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#279 sensei

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 05:35 PM

Another reason it's black is because c60 and c70 (and likely the rest of the fullerenes) are not as soluble in sunflower oil as they are in olive oil 

 

page 327

 

C60

 

Olive oil 909 mg/l

Sunflower oil 522 mg/l

 

C70

 

Olive oil 1035 mg/l

Sunflower oil 867 mg/l

 

 

http://owndoc.com/pd...enes-in-oil.pdf


Edited by sensei, 02 January 2018 - 05:37 PM.

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#280 hav

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 11:26 PM

My wife and I consumed a liter of sunflower oil c60 that I made a month or so back without any ill effects and really liked it. Less greasy and lighter. Also tastes pretty good. Just like sunflower seeds. I used Sunvella High Oleic Sunflower Oil but will probably try and even higher oleic variety from MN next time. These oils have a higher oleic content and can mix in a somewhat larger amount of c60 compared to olive oil.

 

Howard


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