8 replies to this topic

[brainjuice]

I have this (very ambitious, I think) desire to shape a stack that would work on the "fear center".

I'm thinking to facilitate those moods when we feel the courage to approach strangers in bold ways maybe (opposite sex, being assertive) or maybe presentations, or even talks.

...but I want something specifically that would "tone down" the fear of most situations human. It doesn't have to be sustainable. It can be something that I would take on weekends, or at certain days.

-tone down fear (specifically related to social situations, although I'm not socially anxious)
-to take 1-2 times a week
-doesn't need to impair thinking or be otherwise disruptive (no marijuana, MDMA, alcohol)
-has to be legal
-preferably OTC

Does this stack exist? or it needs to be "designed"? (like CILTEP)
I'm thinking an effect like oxytocin (mdma-ish, but don't need the euphoria) where you TRUST people and you don't have any problems approaching people and telling them what you think or feel without a worry in the world.

Thoughts?

[malden]

Interesting idee, the first ting that comes to my head are

-sint johns wort
-uridine
-taurine
- (optional phenibut)

and thinks like

-Grape seed
-ginkgo

can be used but dossis have to be low, overstimmed en fear  goes hand in hand imo

[buckwheats]

give a look to the treating anxiety safely and effectively thread if you haven't already

http://www.longecity...ly-effectively/

even some of the more potent anxiolytic things science guy says to avoid due to possible dependence issues are probably worth looking into. I am especially thinking of things which potentiate GABA one way or another (kava, valerian, kratom).

for any herb or whatever that you are interested in you can probably find an online community devoted to it, which will have lots of relevant information, like recommendations of the best places to buy it from and things like that.

[brainjuice]

malden, on 03 August 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

Interesting idee, the first ting that comes to my head are

-sint johns wort
-uridine
-taurine
- (optional phenibut)

and thinks like

-Grape seed
-ginkgo

can be used but dossis have to be low, overstimmed en fear  goes hand in hand imo

Can you tell me the rationale behind each of those?
I understand St. John's and taurine, but not the rest.

buckwheats, on 03 August 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

give a look to the treating anxiety safely and effectively thread if you haven't already

http://www.longecity...ly-effectively/

even some of the more potent anxiolytic things science guy says to avoid due to possible dependence issues are probably worth looking into. I am especially thinking of things which potentiate GABA one way or another (kava, valerian, kratom).

for any herb or whatever that you are interested in you can probably find an online community devoted to it, which will have lots of relevant information, like recommendations of the best places to buy it from and things like that.

I thought that potentiating GABA meant sedating.
It's funny, some think it's dopamine, some think it's GABA. I think it might be neither. Something closer to oxytocin in any case. Or related to the amygdala...(oops, now you know I'm not a scientist)

[buckwheats]

yeah, i know at least kava/valerian can be sedative in large doses. i guess those things are more appropriate for occasions than they are for a stack. the things i mentioned are herbs so  they end up having a bunch of active compounds that do different things. but the anxiolytic effects in all the cases are mostly attributed to increased GABA, but due to the other things going on you don't necessarily end up feeling sedated.

[hippocampus]

yes, but kava also works on dopamine system. afaik, gaba-a agonists aren't sedating, gaba-b are.

[quamquam91]

hippocampus, on 04 August 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

yes, but kava also works on dopamine system. afaik, gaba-a agonists aren't sedating, gaba-b are.

Uh, benzodiazepines?

[hippocampus]

Ugh, yeah, it's probably more complicated

[Raza]

You'll want to work dopamine, and GABA-B. Oxytocin would be good, but there's precious few oxytocinergics available OTC. To get the results you're looking for, you'll need the effects to be powerful, too. Definitely something for occasional use only (once every two weeks tops, repeating it weekly would risk desensitization), nothing (well, no drug stack) can give you that effect long term. Even if you get it from OTC substances, you're crossing into recreational drug use territory here. Nothing wrong with that in my book; just to be clear.

I'd say try phenibut combined with l-dopa from mucuna pruriens supplements. The latter's the more important, actually. There's risks with both those substances, but for occasional use you should be fine.

hippocampus, on 04 August 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

yes, but kava also works on dopamine system. afaik, gaba-a agonists aren't sedating, gaba-b are.

In my experience, it's the other way around. GABA-A sedates and slows your thoughts down, GABA-B just kind of 'loosens you up' until you get to high doses. Both cost you on motor coordination, though.

That said, Kava's still a good suggestion because of the dopamine.

Edited by Raza, 28 September 2012 - 10:55 AM.