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lutein = scam ?

lutein

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#1 dear mrclock

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:01 PM


guys, those supplements that they sell for vision containing lutein, do they work for anyone at all ? i have tried like 10 different brands types of supplements containing majority of the time high dose lutein (usually marigold extract) and for the past years none of them EVER WORKED. not a single one out of the at least 10 different ones i tried. not a single improvement, even just marely 1%.
i start to suspect based on nobody ever reporting positives on lutein, that perhaps its a huge scam ? can someone with good education in biochemistry try to explain why lutein might not be working from the supplements ? i guess companies know this but still push it on the market with false claims. it needs a lawsuit !

#2 1kgcoffee

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:27 PM

What dosage are you taking? What brand?
In the past, I took high doses of astaxanthin (>16mg) and noticed a significantly positive effect on my vision. Brighter more vibrant colours and sharper contrast.
I now take conservative dose of lutein/zeaxanthin (4mg), and don't notice as much of an effect. They're very similar, but astaxanthin is more potent. The point of taking them is not to give you super vision, but to slow its decline- protect your eyes from UV damage, preserve eye tissue elasticity, reduce glycation if you're diabetic etc

If you're going to try higher doses keep in mind the increased cancer risk. Especially if you've ever been a smoker.

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#3 dear mrclock

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 01:28 AM

im talking about lutein man, not astaxanthin. and i never understood the association of carotenoids and smoking causing cancer. dont understand the mechanism for this, makes no sense. in theory, carotenoids should protect from oxidative stress caused by tobacco ?

Edited by dear mrclock, 01 September 2012 - 01:28 AM.


#4 niner

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 02:51 AM

i never understood the association of carotenoids and smoking causing cancer. dont understand the mechanism for this, makes no sense. in theory, carotenoids should protect from oxidative stress caused by tobacco ?


Maybe they should, in theory, if they are only acting as antioxidants. But they have other activities as well, and it looks like some of those activities are cancer-promoting.

#5 dear mrclock

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:04 AM

i saw reports of synthetic vitamin a promoting growth of cancer. and i did read some association between beta carotine and smoking combination being dangerious for the lungs. but i never understood how and why and if it works on other organs same way if you either combine them with tobacco, alcohol or anything else or just by itself if you are healthy individual and consume too much over prolonged period of time. i know beta carotine is precursor to vitamin a and its not toxic. but maybe its still to be decided if heavy doses will be detrimental except the coloring of the skin which is considered problematic but not dangerous.

#6 david ellis

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 04:06 AM

guys, those supplements that they sell for vision containing lutein, do they work for anyone at all ? i have tried like 10 different brands types of supplements containing majority of the time high dose lutein (usually marigold extract) and for the past years none of them EVER WORKED. not a single one out of the at least 10 different ones i tried. not a single improvement, even just marely 1%.
i start to suspect based on nobody ever reporting positives on lutein, that perhaps its a huge scam ? can someone with good education in biochemistry try to explain why lutein might not be working from the supplements ? i guess companies know this but still push it on the market with false claims. it needs a lawsuit !


I was diagnosed with macular degeneration three years ago. My vision still corrects tol 20/20 and the lines are straight on my Amsler grid. I used the LEF stuff until recently, when I switched to Swanson. I have plenty of drusen on my retina. I have an appointment with my retina specialist this month, I will ask him if it was the eye vitamins, or ???

#7 hamishm00

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 04:28 AM

I see lutein as an age related macula degeneration prevention strategy, nothing more. I doubt you will notice any improvement in eyesight, with lutein alone.

For improved vision, particularly colour perception, focus on polyphenol supplementation.
  • Agree x 1

#8 dear mrclock

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 06:39 AM

^ when i search supplements for eyes, i mainly see vitamin a & lutein/zeaxanthin. what else do you mean by "polyphenols" ?

#9 Athanasios

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 02:50 PM

I will use lycopene/lutein supplement and only notice quicker adjustment to the dark. Well, that and UV resistance.

#10 hamishm00

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 06:24 AM

If you put together a stack like this, you'll probably notice the difference after some time:

Broad spectrum Carotenoid supplement (like Jarrow's Carotenall) which also includes lycopene and Lutein
Zeaxanthin
Green Tea
Berry extract
Resveratrol / Red Wine Extract
Low dose omega 3
N-Acetyl-L-Carnosine drops (like LEF's "Brite Eyes")

#11 david ellis

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:00 PM

If you put together a stack like this, you'll probably notice the difference after some time:

Broad spectrum Carotenoid supplement (like Jarrow's Carotenall) which also includes lycopene and Lutein
Zeaxanthin
Green Tea
Berry extract
Resveratrol / Red Wine Extract
Low dose omega 3
N-Acetyl-L-Carnosine drops (like LEF's "Brite Eyes")

I am taking everything on your list, except the Brite Eyes. I tried the Brite eyes to get rid of floaters, (that was one of the promises) and quit when nothing happened. My experience is that the only "win" is a reduction in the rate of deterioration. And that is a big achievement. Making things better than before is the Bourne protocol. Not yet invented, but tantalizing.

#12 hav

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:39 PM

There are quite a few studies on pubmed testing and confirming results obtained from Age Related Eye Disease Study (AREDS) reports which I think are the original source for using lutein with some of the other supplements mentioned above to limit the risk of developing age-related macular degeneration (AMD). Just search on "AREDS report". Here's one that also finds benefits in taking omega-3 long-chain polyunsaturates which I think supports taking these together in a softgel which seems to be the practice:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19812176

I started when my father developed AMD and learned that the propensity towards it is genetic.

Howard

Edited by hav, 04 September 2012 - 03:40 PM.


#13 dear mrclock

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:38 AM

is Jarrow reliable supplement manufacturer ? i heard some of their stuff doesnt work but some might work who knows.

i never heard of that LEF supplement brite eyes, but how does applying carnosine as eye drops effect in preventhing any eye problems ? never heard of such thing before.

also i was wondering, cant there be manufactured an eye drop supplement containing lutein/zeaxanthin mixture ? i mean, it goes directly in the eyes and it doesnt need to be orally consumed and expected to actually reach retinas. it is right in there. why nobody has thought of this ? maybe its difficult to produce it in such way it works straight in the eyes and its not harmful ?

#14 niner

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:50 AM

is Jarrow reliable supplement manufacturer ? i heard some of their stuff doesnt work but some might work who knows.


Yes, Jarrow is one of the better supplement manufacturers around. The finest supplements in the world sometimes don't work. That's the nature of drugs in general.

#15 hamishm00

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 06:33 AM

I am taking everything on your list, except the Brite Eyes. I tried the Brite eyes to get rid of floaters, (that was one of the promises) and quit when nothing happened. My experience is that the only "win" is a reduction in the rate of deterioration. And that is a big achievement. Making things better than before is the Bourne protocol. Not yet invented, but tantalizing.


Firstly, there's no conceivable way that Brite eyes could reduce the size of floaters. Currently, the only option to get rid of floaters is a vitrectomy if your floaters are bad enough, otherwise it's not really a viable solution. Some floaters dissolve over time. You should perhaps do a little digging before believing the claims made by vendors.

Secondly, I totally disagree with your experience that the only win is a reduction in the rate of deterioration. Supplementation has had the following effect for me: 1) dramatic increase in visual accuity at night ; 2) dramatic increase in colour perception; 3) dramatic decrease in dry eye syndrome.

#16 Deckah

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:02 AM

Surprised anthocyanins haven't been mentioned.

Has anyone tried Billberry extracts or black currant?

#17 hamishm00

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 11:49 AM

I mentioned "Berry Extracts" above. They definitely have an effect on visual accuity.

1. Seems to improve visual accuity in Glaucoma patients:
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Ginkgo biloba Extract and Bilberry Anthocyanins Improve Visual Function in Patients with Normal Tension Glaucoma.

Shim SH, Kim JM, Choi CY, Kim CY, Park KH.

Source

1 Department of Ophthalmology, Kangbuk Samsung Hospital, Sungkyunkwan University School of Medicine , Seoul, Korea.


Abstract

Abstract Ginkgo biloba extract (GBE) and anthocyanins are considered beneficial for various vascular diseases. This study was performed to evaluate the effect of GBE and anthocyanins on visual function in patients with normal tension glaucoma (NTG) based on the vascular theory of mechanisms of glaucomatous optic nerve damage. Retrospective analysis was carried out by a chart review of 332 subjects (209 men and 123 women) who were treated with anthocyanins (n=132), GBE (n=103), or no medication (control, n=97). Humphrey Visual Field (HVF) test, logarithm of the minimal angle of resolution best-corrected visual acuity (logMAR BCVA), intraocular pressure, blood pressure, and fasting blood glucose were determined before and after treatment. Complete ocular and systemic examinations were performed. The mean follow-up duration was 23.82±9.84 (range, 12-59) months; the mean anthocyanin treatment duration was 24.32±10.43 (range, 6-53) months, and the mean GBE treatment duration was 23.81±10.36 months (range, 6-59) months. After anthocyanin treatment, the mean BCVA for all eyes improved from 0.16 (±0.34) to 0.11 (±0.18) logMAR units (P=.008), and HVF mean deviation improved from -6.44 (±7.05) to -5.34 (±6.42) (P=.001). After GBE treatment, HVF mean deviation improved from -5.25 (±6.13) to -4.31 (±5.60) (P=.002). A generalized linear model demonstrated that the final BCVA was not affected by demographic differences among the groups. These results suggest that anthocyanins and GBE may be helpful in improving visual function in some individuals with NTG.


2. Seems to improve nocturnal vision in Myopia patients:
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Purified high-dose anthocyanoside oligomer administration improves nocturnal vision and clinical symptoms in myopia subjects.

Lee J, Lee HK, Kim CY, Hong YJ, Choe CM, You TW, Seong GJ.

Source

Institute of Vision Research, Department of Ophthalmology, Yonsei University College of Medicine, Seoul, Korea.


Abstract

The aim of the present study was to determine the effect of purified high-dose anthocyanoside oligomer administration on nocturnal visual function and clinical symptoms in low-to-moderate myopia subjects. The study was a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial and involved sixty subjects with asthenopia and refractive errors between -1.00 and -8.00 diopters in both eyes. Thirty subjects were administered a purified high-dose anthocyanoside oligomer (100 mg tablet comprising 85 % anthocyanoside oligomer), and thirty were given a placebo in tablet form twice daily for 4 weeks. Prior to the treatment, the placebo and anthocyanoside groups were similar in terms of age and contrast sensitivity. Before and after treatment, subjects completed a questionnaire to determine their clinical symptoms and were also assessed for nocturnal visual function using contrast sensitivity testing. Questionnaire data analysis showed that, following treatment, twenty-two (73.3 %) anthocyanoside subjects showed improved symptoms, whereas only one placebo subject showed an improvement (Fisher's exact test, P<0.0001). Contrast sensitivity levels according to each cycle per degree significantly improved in the anthocyanoside group and remained stable in the placebo group. The mean contrast sensitivity change in the anthocyanoside group was 2.41 (SD) 1.91, compared with -0.66 (SD) 2.66 dB for the placebo group (unpaired Student's t test, P<0.0001). At all cycle per degree levels, contrast sensitivity changes in the anthocyanoside group were better than in the placebo group (unpaired Student's t test, P<0.05). The present data show that the administration of anthocyanoside oligomer appears to improve subjective symptoms and objective contrast sensitivity in myopia subjects with asthenopia.



3. But no effect on night vision in normal people (but would be interesting to see long term studies):
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The effect of anthocyanosides on night vision.

Levy Y, Glovinsky Y.

Source

Department of Ophthalmology, Assaf Harofeh Medical Center, Tel Aviv University, Israel.


Abstract

PURPOSE:

In view of research demonstrating the ability of anthocyanosides in a single oral dose to improve night vision in normal individuals, it was decided to evaluate their effect on three night vision tests: full-field scotopic retinal threshold (SRT), dark adaptation rate (DAR) and mesopic contrast sensitivity (MCS).
METHODS:

In a double-masked, placebo-controlled, cross-over study, 16 young normal volunteers were randomly assigned to one of four different regimens of single oral administrations of 12, 24 and 36 mg of anthocyanosides, and a placebo, with a 2 week washout period between doses. SRT, DAR and MCS were measured immediately before, and 4, 8 and 24 h after treatment.
RESULTS:

No significant effect was found on any of the three night vision tests during the 24 h following a single oral administration of 12, 24 or 36 mg anthocyanosides. The study had a power of 0.95 to detect a 0.1 log unit improvement in SRT and 0.5 log unit improvement in MCS.
CONCLUSIONS:

Single oral administration of 12-36 mg of anthocyanosides appears to lack significant effect on militarily relevant night vision tests.


PMID: 10325997

Edited by hamishm00, 05 September 2012 - 11:50 AM.


#18 david ellis

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 03:53 PM

I am taking everything on your list, except the Brite Eyes. I tried the Brite eyes to get rid of floaters, (that was one of the promises) and quit when nothing happened. My experience is that the only "win" is a reduction in the rate of deterioration. And that is a big achievement. Making things better than before is the Bourne protocol. Not yet invented, but tantalizing.


Firstly, there's no conceivable way that Brite eyes could reduce the size of floaters. Currently, the only option to get rid of floaters is a vitrectomy if your floaters are bad enough, otherwise it's not really a viable solution. Some floaters dissolve over time. You should perhaps do a little digging before believing the claims made by vendors.

Secondly, I totally disagree with your experience that the only win is a reduction in the rate of deterioration. Supplementation has had the following effect for me: 1) dramatic increase in visual accuity at night ; 2) dramatic increase in colour perception; 3) dramatic decrease in dry eye syndrome.




Maybe, I am not in your shoes.

#19 dear mrclock

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 02:56 AM

also i was wondering, cant there be manufactured an eye drop supplement containing lutein/zeaxanthin mixture ? i mean, it goes directly in the eyes and it doesnt need to be orally consumed and expected to actually reach retinas. it is right in there. why nobody has thought of this ? maybe its difficult to produce it in such way it works straight in the eyes and its not harmful ?

#20 university

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 10:23 PM

Because of my lack of self-discipline I have offten breaks in the use of lutein. Hovewer when I start next period I take 2 x daily for 1 week this complex:

Lutein (100 mg of 20% lutein extract ) 20 mg
Taurine 200 mg
Citrus biovlavonoids 40% 50 mg
Vitamin C 30 mg
Zinc amino acid chelate 37.5 mg including Zinc7.5 mg
Selenium 30μg


It's very helpful for me. I spend time in work and home sitting in front of the monitor. I have high myopia, astigmatism and dry eye syndrome.
I see possitive effects like 1kgcoffee after astaxanthin - Brighter more vibrant colours and sharper contrast. Also a huge improved nightvision and visual accustoming to sudden changes in light intensity. Eyes for a longer time do not feel tired
After week I change dosage to one a day for next few weeks till I forget buy another :)

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#21 osris

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Posted 30 July 2023 - 01:21 PM

im talking about lutein man, not astaxanthin. and i never understood the association of carotenoids and smoking causing cancer. dont understand the mechanism for this, makes no sense. in theory, carotenoids should protect from oxidative stress caused by tobacco ?

 

Maybe beta-carotene exerts its detrimental effects through a prooxidant effect in the smoke-exposed lung?







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