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[requiredinformation]

This is a warning to those who are not familiar with nootropics or have gone through benzo/opiate/drug withdrawals and see Phenibut at the health food store and think its safe alternative to use because of the benefits listed on the wrapping. I ordered Phenibut and Noopept together about a month and a half ago having done enough research to know it was safe in small doses and if properly cycled. I work the graveyard shift and my day time sleep is messed up because Im in the land down under and its winter here (depressing in its own right) at the moment (the sun comes out really early and sets really late) leaving me unrested and with intermittent sleep.

I planned on using Phenibut (just 500 mg) 3 days a week to help me sleep and the noopept (20-30mg/daily) to help me study for my exams. I got a digital measuring scale just for this to accurately measure my doses. My first few doses on phenibut were by far the most awesome thing ever, made me euphoric, gave me undisturbed 8 hours of sleep and left me feeling fully rested. I had read how this was addictive so I made sure to have a 4 day washout period taking it only the first three days of the week. However by the second week, having taking only about 3grams phenibut overall which judging by other forum posts is a very low dose, the tolerance and the withdrawals set in. By the 4th day of the washout period I would have anxiety I have never experienced before and my mood would be very low, thinking about memories from the past, not feeling like socializing or going to the gym. I attributed this to SAD and bought a Vitamin D supplement that also contained Ashwagandha to help with my mood (BioForge V3). Big Mistake.

I guess because the Phenibut and Ashwagandha both act on GABA receptors independently, the washout period was ineffective and therefore my mood further worsened to the point where after 4 weeks on the Phenibut and two weeks on the Ashwagandha, I quit taking all the supplements last week. It's a pity cause noopept was working really well to give me verbal and written fluency and to help me complete all my long and arduous assignments.

What followed was a nightmare. In the past two weeks I have faced CRUSHING depression - the kind where you feel like you're in a hole and there’s no way out...like someone has killed everyone you love, fired you from your job, set fire to your house and then stabbed you in the stomach (and killed your pet cat). You have no one and nothing left and no one can help you. I have never experienced depression, despair and feelings of helplessness like this before except maybe when coming down of party pills and that too only very briefly. In the past two weeks I have called my mom and cried, messaged my ex girlfriend and grovelled to take me back, messaged all my friends super depressed rants and actually repeatedly thought about how it would feel if I ended this all by jumping in front of the tram.

Guys, I am someone who has put himself in many many uncomfortable situations just to raise my comfort threshold and have very high self-esteem. I have finally gotten the toned physique I was aiming for the past year, have an awesome four month long vacation coming up after my finals where I’ll be travelling a lot, a busload of friends and no shortage of female attention. I am writing this so that someone deciding to take this with the thought of “oh I’ll be careful, it wont happen to me Im not depressed like those internet guys” can find this thread on google and not go through what I did. Many people read Phenibut and Nootropic in one sentence and think how bad can it be, remember GHB was sold as a health food supplement for the exact same purpose 15 years ago and look how that turned out.

Make no mistake guys Phenibut is a VERY potent DRUG. If you don’t have prior experience with benzo’s or know yourself and your personality well, you can easily sink in the mental quicksand that this compound brings with it and not know why. GABA receptors take months if not years to return to normal, and just a few doses over a month of this can take several weeks of BAD withdrawals to get over. I’m glad I have a few months to live completely clean of every supplement ( I threw the remaining 45grams of Phenibut away) and recuperate but for someone who has a daily life, quitting cold turkey and dealing with the side effects without alarming those around you could be severely taxing and anxiety inducing in itself. Please take heed and if you found this while googling phenibut, ashwagandha and/or withdrawals/depression I hope this convinces you to not touch these two GABA agonists in the first place. The first few days or weeks of anxiolytic effects are not worth the withdrawals that follow. All the best.

SS

[Mikael]

sorry to hear youve gone through this ordeal; glad youre getting back to yourself! I must say if phenibut is like bensos (I believe it affects gaba-b receptors more than gaba-a so not entirely similar) you seem to get physically dependent quite easily, and the whole point is really that no one knows beforehand how quickly withdrawal kicks in. I sometimes take bensos for sleep, very rarely though, because I feel quite depressed from them (ie there is absolutely zero addictive potential for me), and i took the benzo clonazepam for almost a week once. The plan was to do it for two weeks due to a balancedisorder hoping it would alleviate some of the symptoms long-term, but I simply couldnt keep taking it as the drug itself made me feel suicidal. At any rate I didnt experience any withdrawal from that. Ive heard others taking bensos and experiencing withdrawal-symptoms very quickly, and others who take them for a year without much trouble quitting at all. So its all a question of neuroplasticity really I suppose.

No one hoping to sustain long-lasting benefits from sleep or anxiety-disorders will benefit from any drug that induces tolerance and withdrawal in my opinion, so I agree with your points.

Edited by Mikael, 10 October 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[Raza]

Phenibut withdrawal is a weird thing.

I speculate that there must exist broad variety between people in baseline GABA levels and/or GABA-B receptors. Some people only need 250-500mg of phenibut for strong effects, build rapid resistance and end up with withdrawals from three days/week of use; others (like myself) require 1-2 gram doses for the same basic effect regardless of whether that follows day of continuous use or months of washout, and can quit after a week of back-to-back dosing with no noticeable withdrawal.

[Galaxyshock]

Thanks for sharing your experiences - they sound VERY similar to mine. I messed with the same compounds - Phenibut and Ashwagandha last winter/spring for 6 months almost continuously until I decided I had to get off them with rapid withdrawal. There were periods of dooming depression and terroring anxiety during the usage and the breaks I tried to take off them. Ashwagandha is lesser evil but the fact it diminished the symptoms of Phenibut withdrawal for me tells it's indeed a potent GABAergic and should be used with caution. Phenibut is definitely not something to mess with. There are a lot safer and good alternatives like Gotu Kola for anxiolysis and Valerian for sleep. Theanine is probably the only pretty much absolutely safe GABAergic altough I've never had problems with Gotu Kola either.

[Gorthaur]

I've used phenibut for four months, except I only take it once a week, 1 g at a time. Even the first time I took it, this dosage wasn't very euphoric, just relaxing. I always sleep wonderfully and have an afterglow the next day. Tolerance develops so rapidly, there's simply no point in taking it more often.

One thing to keep in the mind is that the better a drug makes you feel while you're on it, the harder you're going to crash. I too have experienced extreme depression and hopelessness following a positive drug experience. I am prescribed oxycodone for severe migraines (it's only necessary to take it a couple times a year), and the day after I take it is hell. Fortunately I've found a solution which I highly recommend to anyone needing a short or long term recovery from dopamine-depleting drugs. Take 350-700 mg N-Acetyl Tyrosine or 1-2 g L-Tyrosine in the morning, and you might just be completely back to normal in a few hours.

[requiredinformation]

UPDATE: Two weeks off Phenibut and one week off Ashgandwada, I feel 80% better. Still have some brief bouts of emo-ness but they are infinetly more controllable than two weeks ago where it was just completely bleak and overwhleming. As my GABA receptors reupregrulate, I feel like my normal happy self again.

I think it'll still take a week or so to be back at 100% but the difference is like night and day. I can only sympathize with people who have been on these drugs for years and the kind of withdrawals they must go through when quitting.

Thanks for all the input guys!

[Galaxyshock]

The acute withdrawal was over in 4-5 days for me and I was feeling better but it's been followed by PAWS and I still have symptoms 6 months later. Just a warning if you seem to get stuck to that 80% or start experiencing some unexpected symptoms that seem to come in "waves". You didn't use these that long though so you could get away without long lasting post-acute symptoms.

[requiredinformation]

Yeah man, my total dosage over my entire one month of usage was less than what some people take in a day so I hope there's no residual symptoms past the next couple of weeks. Looking back, the whole ordeal can only be de described as the tail end of a bromo dragonfly/DOx trip (where you havent slept for almost 48 hours and all your neurotransmitters are severely depleted) elongated over TWO WHOLE WEEKS! First few days i could only sleep 2-4 hours every couple days. Add to that the depression and sadness, it was a fucked up couple of weeks.

I guess because I dont drink alcohol and have never been on benzos with any regularity, my brain chemistry is relatively sensitive to powerful GABA-ergic agonsits although Baclofen, which is almost chemically identical to Phenibut lists all the symptoms I had in its medical fact sheet as common side effects to withdrawal.

[ILIkeBeer]

So how are you now?

[123apk]

Thanks for sharing your experiences - they sound VERY similar to mine. I messed with the same compounds - Phenibut and Ashwagandha last winter/spring for 6 months almost continuously until I decided I had to get off them with rapid withdrawal. There were periods of dooming depression and terroring anxiety during the usage and the breaks I tried to take off them. Ashwagandha is lesser evil but the fact it diminished the symptoms of Phenibut withdrawal for me tells it's indeed a potent GABAergic and should be used with caution. Phenibut is definitely not something to mess with. There are a lot safer and good alternatives like Gotu Kola for anxiolysis and Valerian for sleep. Theanine is probably the only pretty much absolutely safe GABAergic altough I've never had problems with Gotu Kola either.

How long did withdrawal last and did you get PAWS?
I've been trying to taper for a while now and let my supply run low. I too have been using it for about 6 months most days. I don't have enough left for my usual doses this month as I'd planned to taper off then jump off when I have a week off at the end of the month.

But my supply is low and I'm cutting back to quick. I took 500mg less today than yesterday.
I felt anxious (I have social anxiety), although I wasn't looking at people weird like I usually do. I felt wobbly and weird, sure I must have looked a bit drunk.

So how long does this last? If I jumped off during that week am I going to feel alright at the end of it? Or worse still?
Most people say it takes about a week but I've heard dopamine receptors take 2 weeks to start repairing whilst benzo PAWS can last 2 years. So one week then back to normal just sounds a bit premature to me.

[123apk]

The acute withdrawal was over in 4-5 days for me and I was feeling better but it's been followed by PAWS and I still have symptoms 6 months later. Just a warning if you seem to get stuck to that 80% or start experiencing some unexpected symptoms that seem to come in "waves". You didn't use these that long though so you could get away without long lasting post-acute symptoms.

Oh dear. This is what I thought. I usually feel pretty crappy anyway with social anxiety, that 20% makes the difference with me.
When Phenibut worked properly I felt 150%, so much confidence, so little f*cks. I wish I'd socialised more on it outside of work and made more friends, instead I just used it to deal with my job (high stress, high work load, lots of people, lots of socialising).