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Therapeutic use of psychedelics (mostly daily treshold doses)


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#1 medievil

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:35 PM


I want to discuss those compounds more but dont really like scattered threads like the 4 aco dmt forum, i do want to see them discussed but in ways that refer more to this forum, like their therapeutic or use as nootropics.

A few reports of what i mean:
http://www.bluelight...ivational-boost
(the forum has tons of simular anecotes referring therapeutic use for depression, anxiety, ocd or nootropic, energy, creativity enhancing effects).

Also they have been brought up in the latest anhedonia threads as indeed myself ive used for example daily low doses of 2CD to abolish my anhedonia, was effective for several weeks never noticed any tolerance, also google 2CD nootropic for info about it with regards to that.
http://www.longecity...hedonia-thread/

Also their uses for depression (a trip being effective, and the things MAPS is researching can be discussed here too, made some simular threads in the past but wanted to make one in general for the varial uses of most psychedelics, not focussing on the recreational effects.)
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#2 dsohei

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:01 PM

I feel that with the ever increasing stress caused by our separation from nature, traditional food and community, that entheogenic substances are the best way to stay connected to our roots. I know it works for me, in small or larger doses. It's really just herbalism!

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#3 leftside

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:27 PM

I feel that with the ever increasing stress caused by our separation from nature, traditional food and community, that entheogenic substances are the best way to stay connected to our roots. I know it works for me, in small or larger doses. It's really just herbalism!

Which ones do you like? I guess to stay on topic you should just mention the nootropic ones. I've just placed a large order for 10 different types from a Canadian research chemical site. I'll be using for therapeutic and recreational purposes.

#4 Acetylnordopatoninol

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:03 PM

From articles and studies I've read, I've sensed a string of similarity that seems to link emotional control, meditation, intelligence, synesthesia and the effects of psychedelics.
My current hack theory is that psychedelics remove psychological barriers which allows for more opportunity for the development of the consistency of emotions and ideas; (and I'm presuming meditation to do something similar).
I'm woefully ignorant of the pathways that may be involved however.
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#5 dsohei

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:23 PM

I feel that with the ever increasing stress caused by our separation from nature, traditional food and community, that entheogenic substances are the best way to stay connected to our roots. I know it works for me, in small or larger doses. It's really just herbalism!

Which ones do you like? I guess to stay on topic you should just mention the nootropic ones. I've just placed a large order for 10 different types from a Canadian research chemical site. I'll be using for therapeutic and recreational purposes.

Personally I like a lot of them however the trick is to have enough to take them long term in small doses. Currently I can only do that with LSD, or the harmala alkaloids. Id love to talk off forum about the chemicals you ordered.

From articles and studies I've read, I've sensed a string of similarity that seems to link emotional control, meditation, intelligence, synesthesia and the effects of psychedelics.
My current hack theory is that psychedelics remove psychological barriers which allows for more opportunity for the development of the consistency of emotions and ideas; (and I'm presuming meditation to do something similar).
I'm woefully ignorant of the pathways that may be involved however.


Very true, and I'm only approaching this practice from a meditation/shamanic perspective. I don't recommend ppl go hard unless they can navigate their own behaviors.

#6 Raza

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:23 PM

My favorite nootropic psychedelics are LSD and 2C-E. I've been wanting to try 4-aco-dmt, but I haven't been able to find a source that ships to the netherlands.

LSD greatly enhances your sense of cognitive resonance/dissonance. Things that are 'right' together resonate intensely, and the perception of their connection is more obvious. Things that conflict with one another, or even with some part of your belief structure or identity that you aren't currently thinking about, tend to stand out as such. It's really great for integrating shreds of opinion and perspective into a coherent whole, and making that important shift between being able to recite a piece of information and accepting its truthfulness in theory, and really believing it in a way that is integrated with your greater frame of reference, connected to your feelings on the subject and intuitively applied where appropriate.

2C-E seems to help me think more broadly, re-thinking all the automatic processing we usually do with information and helping point out which of those are more habitual than logical. It encourages you to double-check how you define things and relate them to one-another, and restructure these in ways that make more sense where necessary.

I don't think either of these conventionally increase some variable of intelligence like most (good) nootropics do, so much as they change the balance of motivation-of-thought towards two different, situationally useful directions. I wouldn't take either of them daily, at risk of merely swapping one intellectual personality for another and possibly getting stuck on a new set of biases that comes with it; the best use for things like these seems to me to cycle between analytically useful states of mind to approach the issues that occupy you over different angles, over time.

Edited by Raza, 20 November 2012 - 11:33 PM.

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#7 Raza

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:49 PM

As far as psychologically therapeutic experiences go, I've seen a few of them happen to people on LSD, and have heard second-hand (but no further) accounts of a couple more that matched what else I knew of the people involved in them. Mostly people resolved long-standing internal conflicts, or experienced breakthroughs on matters of persistent doubt or indecisiveness, or suddenly 'got over' some irrational insecurity. I've seen a couple of instances of lasting positive effect, and none of the opposite, despite witnessing a couple of intensely bad trips. In fact, those seem to have a well-above-average likelihood of therapeutic effect.

For my own experiences with them, 'therapeutic' might be slightly off from the right word... I've experienced a fair amount of character development through them, but this has always come more in the form of enhancement than the resolution of some problem state.

#8 leftside

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:16 PM

I've been wanting to try 4-aco-dmt

I should have 100mg of 4-aco-dmt fumarate arriving this week. Not sure I'll actually try it this weekend though as I also have some other goodies arriving as well.

#9 Tukotih Doji

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:03 PM

Cross-post from another thread, you guys might be interested:

Thought I would post some links on the memory-enhancing effect of psilocybin and synthetic relatives.
For starters, here is a great high-quality thread on drugs-forum discussing the matter at somewhat advanced level:
http://www.drugs-for...ad.php?t=120701

"Implications for psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy: functional magnetic resonance imaging study with psilocybin."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22282432

RESULTS:
Robust activations to the memories were seen in limbic and striatal regions in the early phase and the medial prefrontal cortex in the late phase in both conditions (P<0.001, whole brain cluster correction), but there were additional visual and other sensory cortical activations in the late phase under psilocybin that were absent under placebo. Ratings of memory vividness and visual imagery were significantly higher after psilocybin (P<0.05) and there was a significant positive correlation between vividness and subjective well-being at follow-up (P<0.01).

CONCLUSIONS:
Evidence that psilocybin enhances autobiographical recollection implies that it may be useful in psychotherapy either as a tool to facilitate the recall of salient memories or to reverse negative cognitive biases.


Here is one on the attention-lowering:

Using psilocybin to investigate the relationship between attention, working memory, and the serotonin 1A and 2A receptors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16269092

Increasing evidence suggests a link between attention, working memory, serotonin (5-HT), and prefrontal cortex activity. In an attempt to tease out the relationship between these elements, this study tested the effects of the hallucinogenic mixed 5-HT1A/2A receptor agonist psilocybin alone and after pretreatment with the 5-HT2A antagonist ketanserin. Eight healthy human volunteers were tested on a multiple-object tracking task and spatial working memory task under the four conditions: placebo, psilocybin (215 microg/kg), ketanserin (50 mg), and psilocybin and ketanserin. Psilocybin significantly reduced attentional tracking ability, but had no significant effect on spatial working memory, suggesting a functional dissociation between the two tasks. Pretreatment with ketanserin did not attenuate the effect of psilocybin on attentional performance, suggesting a primary involvement of the 5-HT1A receptor in the observed deficit. Based on physiological and pharmacological data, we speculate that this impaired attentional performance may reflect a reduced ability to suppress or ignore distracting stimuli rather than reduced attentional capacity. The clinical relevance of these results is also discussed.


Please note that however confusing it may sound, psilocybin (and relatives, possibly most 5-HT2A agonists) actually decreases brain activity in certain regions which then triggers less controlled firing in other parts, causing hallucinogenic effects, I did not obtain this info from a purely scientific source so do your own research before considering it a fact! :)

I have access to certain specific 5-HT2A agonists (the 25X-NBOMe series) and I've experienced nootropic effects and been tempted to use them in low-doses on a normal day but I haven't had the time. Great self-analytical tools overall, like most psychedelics. Note that I've not experienced the same attention-lowering from selective full 5-HT2A agonist 25I-NBOMe as with shrooms and synthetic analogs such as 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-MET, this complies well with the results from the study linked above and I'd love it if it got some more attention, because there is something magical about that 5-HT2A receptor, most psychedelics target it, but none does it selectively like 25I-NBOMe.

WARNING!
Be aware that the 25X-NBOMe series are highly potent psychedelics active in doses less than 100mcg, 1mg can be an overdose so use volumetric measuring, know your (body)chemistry and psychedelics before obtaining this chemical.



#10 medievil

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:22 PM

Been playing with low doses 5 meo dalt added to my stack, will update later so far a bit unclear about the effects.

Also seems like the 5 meo mipt (foxy) i have is a SSRI, also DRI i think was a bit unclear from the abstract, 5 meo dalt does not alter monoamines.

Would love to try a few from the 2C series again.

#11 Raza

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:22 PM

IIRC, Foxy has reuptake inhibition values for all three monoamines, with S>D>N. Serotonin might be the only one that needs any accounting for under real-life conditions, if that.

5-meo-dalt. Butterfly! I'm curious what you'll get from that.

#12 medievil

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:27 PM

Why do you say that? is reuptake inhibition of the others insignificant in low doses?

Its a interesting compound, as if its a significant sndri that not only gives it tremendous therapeutic potential, the sero oganism is also very interesting in low therapeutic non psychedelic doses.

Ive read some ppl find 5 meo dalt in low doses a bit like a empatogenic stim, it def adds empathy so far i havent tried it on its own yet (i did years ago recreationally wich was a interesting experience)

5 meo dalt has been said to be like "foxy light"

"its not really like other tryptamines (except maybe low-doses of MiPTs or DiPTs). for me, it feels like some clean version of amphetamine until doses of ~60 mg where i find music appreciation and some of the tripping mindset. at only ~90mg i felt uncomfortable and and unwell, and also very hungry for tomato soup.

for many people that feeling of toxicity/discomfort can come as low as 40 mg... if you want to explore this compound for its psychedelic properties you will probably need to slowly titrate the dose upwards
...
personally i think 5-meo-dalt is misunderstood and really more of a social enhancer than a psychedelic. for me its primary utility is as a stimulant without crash/rebound or appetite disruption (when combined with weed i get the munchies to an unprecedented level)."


Edited by medievil, 22 November 2012 - 06:28 PM.


#13 medievil

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:38 PM

An old time favorite of me is AMT, i used it in low daily doses in the past simular to the doses it was used in the sovjet union as an antidepressant, its a sero agonist combined with a sero/da/ne releasing agent making it a compound with tremendous therapeutic potential far more therapeutic then rubbish SSRI but because of its abuse potential (most likely) banned in russia and not studied for therapeutic use in the western world, abuse potential leaves people stuck with weak alternatives that are used in psychiatry.

#14 leftside

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:53 PM

I have access to certain specific 5-HT2A agonists (the 25X-NBOMe series) and I've experienced nootropic effects and been tempted to use them in low-doses on a normal day but I haven't had the time. Great self-analytical tools overall, like most psychedelics. Note that I've not experienced the same attention-lowering from selective full 5-HT2A agonist 25I-NBOMe as with shrooms and synthetic analogs such as 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-MET, this complies well with the results from the study linked above and I'd love it if it got some more attention, because there is something magical about that 5-HT2A receptor, most psychedelics target it, but none does it selectively like 25I-NBOMe.

WARNING!
Be aware that the 25X-NBOMe series are highly potent psychedelics active in doses less than 100mcg, 1mg can be an overdose so use volumetric measuring, know your (body)chemistry and psychedelics before obtaining this chemical.

Looking forward to trying my 25I-NBOMe HCL and 25C-NBOMe HCL that should be arriving this weekend. After a lot of research I think I've found a way to dose these correctly. Put 10mg of the substance into 10ml of vodka. Add this solution to one of those 30ml nasal sprays that you can purchase from any pharmacy. The one I have dispenses 100mcg in each spray. Therefore I will get 250mcg of the active substance with 10 sprays. My only concern right now is whether the substance will dissolve in vodka (it should) and whether taking nasally will work (it should).

#15 Raza

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:09 PM

Why do you say that? is reuptake inhibition of the others insignificant in low doses?

Actually, nevermind. Thinking back, I'm not sure whether the S/D/N figures I'm semi-remembering were its values and a reuptake inhibitor or as a releasing agent. Either way the memory is fuzzy and not fit for building on.

αMT always left my mind completely, artificially blank. I can't personally imagine getting nootropic use (or other day-to-day benefit) out of it, but the profile you describe sounds promising as an antidepressant.

I think I'll give low dose butterfly as a gentle social stim a try. Being on the autism spectrum, an entactogen that doesn't tire you out, change your personality or take you into a different reality entirely could be very useful.

Edited by Raza, 22 November 2012 - 07:17 PM.


#16 Tukotih Doji

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:09 PM

I have access to certain specific 5-HT2A agonists (the 25X-NBOMe series) and I've experienced nootropic effects and been tempted to use them in low-doses on a normal day but I haven't had the time. Great self-analytical tools overall, like most psychedelics. Note that I've not experienced the same attention-lowering from selective full 5-HT2A agonist 25I-NBOMe as with shrooms and synthetic analogs such as 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-MET, this complies well with the results from the study linked above and I'd love it if it got some more attention, because there is something magical about that 5-HT2A receptor, most psychedelics target it, but none does it selectively like 25I-NBOMe.

WARNING!
Be aware that the 25X-NBOMe series are highly potent psychedelics active in doses less than 100mcg, 1mg can be an overdose so use volumetric measuring, know your (body)chemistry and psychedelics before obtaining this chemical.

Looking forward to trying my 25I-NBOMe HCL and 25C-NBOMe HCL that should be arriving this weekend. After a lot of research I think I've found a way to dose these correctly. Put 10mg of the substance into 10ml of vodka. Add this solution to one of those 30ml nasal sprays that you can purchase from any pharmacy. The one I have dispenses 100mcg in each spray. Therefore I will get 250mcg of the active substance with 10 sprays. My only concern right now is whether the substance will dissolve in vodka (it should) and whether taking nasally will work (it should).

If you have the HCl it will dissolve just fine in plain water. 10 sprays sounds like a lot and you'll likely end up with a runny nose. Try your basic solution without 25I first and check how many sprays one can take without horrifying drip. If you are throwing away the original solution in the nasal spray, make sure to add salt (NaCl) to your new solution, else the cells in your nose will swell up due to some property of osmosis, I'm no biologist so I don't really understand how that stuff works but it causes them to die, resulting in pain.

From the reports I've read, 25C-NBOMe isn't a particularly good candidate for nootropic purposes, it's very likely that it hits other receptors than the 5-HT2A based on anecdotal reports. I have some too, but I like 25I so much that I'm not sure if I'll ever try 25C haha.

#17 leftside

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

Excellent advice. I wanted to use the original solution so I wouldn't need to add salt. I'll see how many sprays I can "handle" with the original solution and then reduce the amount of original solution accordingly (for example just use 10ml or 1ml instead of 30ml).

I've done a lot of research, but please feel free to PM me offline if you have any other advice for me. This will be my first time taking 25I-NBOMe.

#18 medievil

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:54 PM

Why do you say that? is reuptake inhibition of the others insignificant in low doses?

Actually, nevermind. Thinking back, I'm not sure whether the S/D/N figures I'm semi-remembering were its values and a reuptake inhibitor or as a releasing agent. Either way the memory is fuzzy and not fit for building on.

aMT always left my mind completely, artificially blank. I can't personally imagine getting nootropic use (or other day-to-day benefit) out of it, but the profile you describe sounds promising as an antidepressant.

I think I'll give low dose butterfly as a gentle social stim a try. Being on the autism spectrum, an entactogen that doesn't tire you out, change your personality or take you into a different reality entirely could be very useful.

It feels like 5mg amphetamine but more empathogenic/friendly/serotogenic, has a ton of therapeutic potential.

Even when someone used those chems recreationally they cant be aware of their potential therapeutic effects in treshold doses, its a very interesting route to explore.

foxy def wasnt a releasing agent but just a reuptake inhibitor, the abstract talked about monoamines in general tough so dont know anything more.

#19 medievil

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:58 PM

The first "smart pill" compound made was 2CD or 4-Methyl-2,5 Dimethoxy-phenethylamine hydrochloride (3,4) and was tested at several dosage levels. The higher ranges from 10 to 20 milligrams (mg) produced a state of mild intoxication with increased sensory enhancement, but with no hallucinogenisis. Lower levels, from 5 to 10 mg produced calm states wherein one could read, study, or listen with excelled concentration and as we found out later with much better than normal retention. Sensitivity to this compound varied among the test subjects some finding that 5 mg (or even less) worked just fine for them and others stated that this dosage was not effective. So every one worked out their particular level. In those subjects who had a greater sensitivity to this compound, laughter, hilarity, and giggling interfered with studying or other learning pursuits. During this time of initial exploration it was noted that these materials worked best on individuals who were inclined to be serious about their study habits. When used by persons who tended to be less than studious when confronted with a book or lessons, they would think shortly of how much more fun it would be if they were playing catch, riding a motorcycle, drinking beer or just generally goofing off. In these cases the smart pills were of no advantage and probably were a hindrance to the overall process of learning.

CASE HISTORIES OF SMART PILL USAGE 2CD

* CARL: Graduate student in chemistry on Ph.D. track.

Having completed all of the required course work, he still needed to fulfill his language requirement. His adviser informed him that if he could pass the fourth semester of German with a "C" or better and pass the departmental written translating test, his language requirement would be fulfilled. He enrolled in the fourth semester of German without taking the first three as the department assumed he would. He talked to LAZAR about two weeks before the end of the semester and said he was afraid he would not pass the German course. He asked LAZAR if he had any suggestions, since he had seen him in the library pouring over some of the voluminous German chemical literature. LAZAR said he had some "smart pills" which might help. Carl said he would take them; he sounded rather desperate. He said he had planned to study or cram for the final for a full week of seven days and for eight to ten hours per day. So LAZAR said he would give him one smart pill for each day of study and one for the final if he thought it was necessary. LAZAR also told him that he had a set of index cards with the most used Chemical German technical terms on them. He would loan them to Carl to copy, not with a Xerox machine, but by hand while under the influence of a smart pill. A few days after the final exam Carl excitedly reported to LAZAR that he had passed the fourth semester German exam with a "C" and that during the test when he needed a word it was right there. He also said that he did not use a smart pill for the final exam indicating that the learning is not state dependent. That is, you do not need to be in the same slightly altered state when retrieving the information as when learning it. About a month later Carl and LAZAR crossed paths in the chemistry library and Carl told him that he had passed the Departmental German translating test and that he only had to finish his research and dissertation to graduate. Carl left for a few moments and on returning handed LAZAR his index cards and a very nicely done booklet with lettered index tabs and inside was a Xerox copy of a hand copied short dictionary of German chemical terms. Carl stated that he was translating German regularly and found it most useful for his work.

2CD
* John: Graduate student in chemistry on Ph.D. track.


Having heard of the smart pills from Carl, John wanted to use some for his German studies. He was already auditing some of the first semesters and when he took the fourth semester he used smart pills for pre-exam studies and received an "A" in the course. He got a copy of Carl's short dictionary of German chemical terms and completed his language requirements. John felt that the use of smart pills was of great value in studying for the German and also for the cumulative exams which cover all of the chemistry which the professors feel the student should know. However, after that time, the Chemistry Department decided to plug the loophole and required students to take all four semesters of German.

2CD
* Bea: Degree in music, but not a professional musician.


She fully enjoyed music and toyed around with composing for her own pleasure. One evening while on a smart pill, she wanted to hear a certain song by one of the popular artists. She went over to the large shelf of LPs, and without even looking, pulled out the one she wanted. She started it playing and went over to the piano and played right along with the music. Since she could only play by sight reading sheet music prior to this event she was quite surprised. She played several other pieces by ear that same evening and had no problem playing by ear from then on.

2CD
* Steven: University professor, age 65.


I ingested 10 mg before approaching a new project. At a conference last year an overseas friend and I co-chaired a symposium. It received such positive feedback that she suggested we co-edit a book on the topic. So my project was to write a proposal to send to prospective publishers. The writing was surprisingly fluid. I had innovative ideas that I had not conceptualized previously. I worked on my word processor, and the next day found that I had to do very little editing before sending the book proposal to four publishers, one of whom recently accepted it. Good material for creative thinking and writing.

2CD
* LAZAR


He had heard of a visiting lecture series on "Photo Chemistry" at one of the universities and thought that it might have some applicationin his synthetic chemical work. He went to the first lecture in the morning and found that the content was way over his head and that his comprehension was not very good. On the lunch break he felt that a smart pill would be worthwhile trying for the afternoon lecture. He took 10 mg, a little ahead of time, so that it would be working when the lecture started. The lecturer began with a recap of the morning lecture for those who may have missed it. LAZAR then understood what had been said in the morning and also understood the content of the afternoon lecture. Occasionally the lecturer would be standing at the black board, chalk in hand, and would be groping for the correct word. LAZAR knew what the word was before it was spoken and these were words which were not in his common vocabulary. He finished the two day series with a good understanding of the principles and techniques involved in this area of chemistry. Unfortunately it didn't seem to be useful for his work. What was interesting was the possibility that he was tuning into the lecturer's thoughts, as the latter was groping for the correct word, and somehow, LAZAR knew what the word was before it was uttered.

2CD
* Meg: Medical student.


She felt that the 10 mg regular starting dose was too much for studying, and seemed to act as a intensifier of sexual sensations. While making love on the material she felt wonderfully sexy and had very intense orgasms. One half a tablet (5 mg) was just about right on most occasions for reading and studying. She reported a pleasant, controlled energy and studied because she felt like it and had very good results from the effort. A follow up discussion ten years later disclosed that she felt the use of 2CD had increased the acuity of her hearing and that now ten years later there was no diminishing in that effect. For most of Meg's studies she used 2CD-DiEt, a compound which had fewer distracting components to it for her particular physiology (more on her use of this compound later under its own listing).

2CD
* Arn: Professional musician.


He was learning the five string banjo to expand his repertoire of instruments played. He would listen to records of the best five string banjo players and would play along with them. When he got to the very difficult parts he would "lose it", and have to start over. He just could not seem to get past the difficult parts. Arn was telling his problem to LAZAR, who said, "Take this pill now and go right home and do your play-along thing with your banjo." He reported as follows the next day:

I went home and put on a record and tuned up my banjo to the record. I had never gotten it tone perfect before, but I got it exactly on. I then put the needle back to the start and proceeded to play along with it. After a few moments I realized that I was playing better than ever before. When I got to the difficult parts I played right along with them, not behind or ahead, it was right on. When that side was done I turned it overand played the other side, then another record and another. I played all night into the wee small hours of the morning. I played with authority and I could do it the afterwards without the 2CD.

2CD
* Max: University professor, Age 58


I am a research futurist who is particularly interested in visioning of preferred futures and how best to achieve them. As a practitioner of yoga and various psycho technologies for enhancing creativity and intuition, I tend to be quite aware of inner states that enhance or diminish productivity when writing.

I took 10 mg of 2CD as an experiential experiment when preparing to write a grant proposal. The proposal focused on a new way to do what futurists call "STEEP Scanning": the identification of Social, Technological, Economic, Ecological, Political patterns, trends and issues of importance, and the translation of these factors into opportunities and threats useful for decision makers. The problem I wanted help with was this: How to show in graphical as well as verbal terms the dynamic systems involved. As the 2CD took effect (about 25 minutes, although a subtle energy shift occurred in my body almost immediately) I noticed that my internal clock speed was increasing, and that I was thinking and visualizing with increasing subtle "granularity" (i.e., "many more distinguishable trees in the forest"). After playing with ideas for some minutes, I took a toke of a high grade bud of cannabis, which for me often brings the ability to "see" systems in three dimensions.

Wow! The effect with 2CD was strongly synergistic, I not only started seeing the system of "STEEP Scanning" to impact analysis in a dynamic (time dependent) way, I saw it as simultaneously representing emergence in two orthogonal dimensions implicate (like the proverbial "horn of plenty" in which fruit emerges from no-thing-ness); and explicate (like conventional cause and effect sequences). I quickly sketched exactly what I needed and went off with my wife to make love, for the 2CD also quickened that aspect of beingness as well.

2CD
* Bill: A cab driver, about thirty-five years old.


His girl friend, who was a very experienced skier, wanted him to learn how to ski so they could go out on the slopes together. He took a one hour ski lesson and then a couple of days later went skiing with LAZAR and his lady. The first run was a disaster for Bill, who fell down getting off the lift and kept falling down every ten or twenty feet, or so it seemed. When they got to the bottom of the first run, LAZAR called everyone together for a smart pill and then waited a short while for it to take effect. When the very first or threshold effects were noted, everyone got on the lift and went up again. This time Bill did not fall down getting off the lift and he went ahead of everyone. It was difficult at times for the others to keep up with him. His form was not great, but he was really going for it. They all made one more run down this beginner's slope and then went up some slightly more difficult runs. By lunch time all were going up on intermediate slopes and doing very well. Everyone who had skied previously said that they had never skied better. After lunch, and a well deserved rest and half of a smart pill, the whole group went up again. By mid-afternoon Bill had started to lose it on some difficult intermediate slopes where LAZAR felt he had no business to be. So everyone moved down to some easier slopes and all was fine for the rest of the day. Bill went skiing twice more with his girl friend (the first time with smart pills) and the next time the four of them hit the slopes together. Well, the only time LAZAR and his lady saw the other two was when they went whizzing by at great speed. Bill had become as expert a skier as his companion in a very short time. In fact he was so enamored of skiing that he sort of became a ski bum and lived and worked evenings at ski resorts just so he could ski all day during the season. After a couple of years of this the novelty wore off and Bill came down to earth again.

2CD
* Ned: Philosopher, physicist, computerengineer, age 69.


I took 10 mg in the afternoon, at about 2:00 PM. I was relaxed, the house was quiet, and I drifted off into sleep - a normal, after-lunch nap. A half-hour later I woke in a relaxed, alert state. I felt no psychedelic activity, no sensations other than a kind of sharpened awareness. After an hour, I felt that nothing was happening and took another 10 mg. After another half hour it was clear that something indeed was happening. I felt light and euphoric, but nothing particular was going on in my mind. I slept lightly for another hour -- very relaxed, a very refreshing and alert sleep.

I decided that this material was not taking me anywhere, and that I might as well drive it, since it was not leading me. In that period of my life I was playing GO on the computer several hours every day. I had set the level of difficulty so that I usually win with a small margin, with a score of around twenty, but I have to work hard to do it. That afternoon with the 2-CD, I won consistently with scores up around 100-130! My only sensations were clarity and ease. Effortless. The clarity penetrated all of my mental processing, and trailed off in three or four days.

2CD
* Scott: Theology Student, Age 25, 10 mg.


One-half hour in I felt slight euphoria, reading an article I seemed to fall into it. Nice flow on interpretation and new ideas. Especially with reading I feel a shift in the eyes as though they get a little dried out. This, however, is sometimes seen (depending usually on the dosage--15-20 mg) as positive. With reading I feel my eyes softening into the article--like a gaze. Breathing goes shallow but timely. Feel real comfortable.

One hour in: did some yoga. Head stand with elbows position triangularly is real easy. Maintained a steadiness with the quieting of the mind. I went right into a breathing that felt new (the position was so...). This I enjoyed very much. Not strange to me except in typing this now--opening my mouth I could feel the network of muscles there in and out around my mouth. Like the breathing the more relaxed & "giving in to" the more subtle feeling I seemed to acquire. From there I could move consciousness to various parts of my body and feel that area. My breath is in unison as I shift consciousness there. In 2-3 hours the subtle intensity is gone though I maintain a calming feeling.

2CD
* Rod: Business man, college graduate, age 59.


Rod was studying for an aircraft pilot's license so that he could fly his own plane to business meetings, etc. He was having a difficult time studying and learning all of the information that he needed to know for the examination. Ten 10 mg 2CD tabs used over a period of about one month were of great assistance in studying for the examination, which he passed with flying colors. He was amazed at the ease of learning and the degree of retention, and he commented that he wished he had had some of these "smart pills" when he was in college.

2CD
* Leo: Film writer, Age 53


After meeting with you, I drove south to meet with Terence McKenna, who was under consideration as Technical Advisor for the film I spoke of; since it deals primarily with the dynamics of the mushroom velada as performed in the Mazatecan idiom. Terence and I spent the next day and a half going over the proposed film, spinning tales and dancing the dance of new friends. The one full day was spent after ingesting a small (10 mg) amount of 2CD on my part. It is difficult to differentiate between cause and effect at this point, but I will tell you that in the space of that time, I felt as if my brain had been washed in the waters of some cool, clear, sweet, spring; that some kind of opaque filmy veil had been flushed away and that cortical tissues were being exposed to brilliant light. The nature of our conversations was so intense at times, that I would have to leave him and go for a short solitary walk because of being in overload.

Now Terence is, as we all know, an authentic "one-and-only" type person, and possesses, I expect, considerable shamanic powers, but during those conversations, stuff came out of me that I had no idea was present anywhere in my cerebral structures. Ideas were fully formed and clearly and powerfully expressed without effort or effect. I had extraordinary flights of mental connections. I felt as if there was a voice speaking in me that I had never heard before and that its origins were from some deep ocean of intuition and profound meaning. What continually astonished me in the process was that the things the voice was expressing were things I have never been able to say with absolute clarity. In other words, they were languaged feelings more than mental constructs. And these feelings had meanings far more profound than any thoughts I had theretofore expressed in my writings or in my personal conversations with other people.

Coincidental with all of this, there began to be delivered an array of synchronicities that, at times, was overwhelming. I seemed to have achieved in a kind of lateral drift, a subtle and magical shift of perception that allowed me a glimpse of the ongoing miracles occurring behind the mask of ordinarily-viewed reality. As the veil was washed from my brain, it was also lifted from my eyes.

The words, feelings, thoughts seemed to be coming from another part of me. It felt as if, for the first time, the origin of my voice was my heart and what it spoke were the sounds of my true self which was intact, blessed, worthy, and deeply in the Tao. I was continually amazed at the ease with which I could express the most complicated ideas. How this new voice simplified everything and how, in the process of simplification, everything said gained the power of its own authenticity which, somehow, I didn't own, which was me, but not of me, which came from more than me. This report may seem rather effusive, especially since the substance seemed at the time of ingestion, so mild and barely present, but I intuitively feel there was something still working chemically and in alchemical combination in the meeting with Terence and that the "washing" I refer to was still going on. I would welcome any thoughts from the pool of your experience on this. Does this make any sense to you?


Lazar's response was: Yes, it makes perfect sense. You have had a better than average response to this particular chemical, which released your innate knowingness in a way that only you can fully appreciate. Many thanks for sharing your insights with us.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/2cd/2cd_smartpills1.shtml

#20 medievil

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:20 PM

Really anoying i broke my 2 scales, have to eyeball my shit, not the best thing to do haha.
Will try low dose 5 meo dalt later on to my stims (mdpv and desoxypipradol) i kinda know how much i need but a scale would be damn handy

#21 leftside

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:31 PM

^^^ Very interesting. Do you know how they injested 10mg of 2CD?

#22 medievil

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:50 PM

I personally allways took it oral, worked like a charm, disolved it in water and measured with a syringe.

I cant find any 2CD sources anymore, shame as i loved it in treshold doses.

#23 medievil

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:57 PM

SO my friend lives in a country where magic mushrooms are legal, or so he claims anyway, and after telling him about my thoughts on the idea of using magic mushrooms as a nootropic he decided going for it! What a nutter, anyway, he says it was an overall success, but the efficiency would have to be determined by empirical evidence, because these experience are highly variable and subjective.

The back story is that he obtained some 36mg concerta (methlyphenidate) and was using that off and on for studying purposes, but felt that it wasn't really doing the trick though. The third exam he had to prepare for just wasn't going as well as the other two, and he wanted to try something else. All the meanwhile he had been maintaining his standard nootropic regime, which will be posted below. He came across this idea and went for it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

8:45
Woke up, took a shower, made breakfast. Having studied somewhat unproductively the day before, decided to start off the day with a clear mind.

9:15
Consumed magic mushrooms, standard nootropic regime, 1 cup coffee.

  • 0.5g psilocybe cubensis, dried
  • 1g piracetam
  • 500mg choline
  • 200mcg huperzine A
  • 100mg centrophenoxine
  • b vitamin
  • 1 cup instant coffee
Started studying in a bottom up fashion. Approximately 280 lecture slides of information were already divided into a few different files, so he began by marking each page with a number for each one of the files. Then he started at the first one, divided that into sections with h1 headers, and moved onto the second. That was divided into sections as well, and so forth. When he was finished, he went back to the first page, and starting writing down more specific headers, h2, with slightly more detailed information.

This took about a total of 1.5 hours, at which point he added a 0.25g 'booster'. He thought that this way of studying would help associate the highest order 'headers', or 'topics', in the same state of mind, with more and more detailed information later on as the effects progressed. Jumping back thought...

9:45
After 30 minutes, the effects had come on. He had a slight background glow of mood elevation and focus. His head started out quite foggy but something clicked in once the caffeine and psilocybin started to work (and maybe the others too). This was the start of the most focused he felt during the whole experience. He continued.

10:45
Consumed more magic mushrooms, and some methylphenidate.
  • 0.25g psilocybe cubensis, dried
  • 4mg methylphenidate
He continued studying, and by this time had reached the most detailed level of information, lets say h4 headers and subsequent details. Noteworthy is that he was reading the slides over and over in more detail and actively storing important information and writing down notes as well.

His focus was still good, any anxiety was relieved, possibly the most beneficial aspect of psilocybin as a nootropic. He felt that the information was making sense and flowing more easily. No strong psychedelic effects were present.

11:20
Had to meet a friend and went for a walk outside. Very enjoyable, the sub was out, he was in a good mood. Anxiolytic effects quite pronounced.

11:45
Back in his room, resumed studying.

12:00
He was feeling the second wave of mushrooms kick in. It was somewhat too strong; heavy chest, somewhat intense euphoria for studying, and it was difficult to stick with studying. He lied down for a couple minutes, then got back to it. This peak/plateau lasted until 12:30. He made lunch around this time and had finished eating by 12:45, at which point he got back to studying.

12:45
Focus still good, but not as good as it was. The peak/plateau was over and he was riding the comedown which was quite smooth. Kept at the studying, writing down notes, reviewing information. This lasted until 2:00, at which point he was finished studying on his own and went to meet up with friends.

2:00
Baseline. Took piracetam.
  • 1g piracetam
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Other notes:

For one, he would have waited another hour before adding the second boost of 0.25g.

He continued to study until his exam at 5:30, and felt that he was just reviewing info but not absorbing any more.

In the 30 minutes prior to his exam, he got a little but stressed because he felt as if information was starting to jumble around. He felt that he was starting to forget/mix things up.

When he sat down to right the exam, he relaxed and told himself to let the information flow back to him. He knew it was in his head.

The exam went very well, it was slightly easier than expected, but all of the information he needed to recall came back quite easily. It was less detailed than he was preparing for, but it turns out those details were the last bit he was forgetting, while quite able to recall concepts and big pictures.

Definitely giving it another go some time.


Read more: http://www.drugs-for...1#ixzz2CzkvMj8z

Experience in that thread linked above.

#24 medievil

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:31 PM

Hmm really hard to say what 5 meo dalt contributes on my combo, definatly increased empathy and mood but cant pinpoint something definate therapeutic i could use in my stack.

Should try it when im out or getting stuff done, going to appointments wheter it contributes with something (social interaction or whatever).

It definatly synergizes and seems to blend in well with my regime.

Edited by medievil, 22 November 2012 - 11:33 PM.


#25 Raza

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:53 PM

What dose did you (intend to) use, for the low dose 5-meo-dipt?

Stuff is pretty fluffy if I remember correctly (and your batch is anything like mine), but you'd know that if you've dosed it before breaking your scales. Without experience, I think I'd eyeball doses about half of what I was trying to take.

Edited by Raza, 22 November 2012 - 11:53 PM.


#26 medievil

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:22 AM

no idea, just eyeballing it lol, know what size of line feels therapeutic, more then that and it gets a bit into a psychedelic headspace. never eyeball guys, i never follow my own advice not because my advice is bad, its good its me being bad

It broke before i had the stuff.

Edited by medievil, 23 November 2012 - 12:22 AM.


#27 medievil

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:36 PM

Increasing evidence suggests a link between attention, working memory, serotonin (5-HT), and prefrontal cortex activity. In an attempt to tease out the relationship between these elements, this study tested the effects of the hallucinogenic mixed 5-HT1A/2A receptor agonist psilocybin alone and after pretreatment with the 5-HT2A antagonist ketanserin. Eight healthy human volunteers were tested on a multiple-object tracking task and spatial working memory task under the four conditions: placebo, psilocybin (215 microg/kg), ketanserin (50 mg), and psilocybin and ketanserin. Psilocybin significantly reduced attentional tracking ability, but had no significant effect on spatial working memory, suggesting a functional dissociation between the two tasks. Pretreatment with ketanserin did not attenuate the effect of psilocybin on attentional performance, suggesting a primary involvement of the 5-HT1A receptor in the observed deficit. Based on physiological and pharmacological data, we speculate that this impaired attentional performance may reflect a reduced ability to suppress or ignore distracting stimuli rather than reduced attentional capacity. The clinical relevance of these results is also discussed.


So blocking 5HT1A with pindolol should block this negative effect, i was interested in pindolol for premature ejaculation, im curious how it would modulate 5 meo dalt and 5 meo dipt.

I beleive i have too much 5HT1A and oxytocin activity wich would explain why my premature ejaculation is resistant to ssri's (wich work because of 5HT2C agonism but 5HT1A opposes this) and my excessive levels of empathy. Mirtazepine wich massively activates 5HT1A massively made my PE worse and i didnt like the shit, sero agonism works far better for me.

Edited by medievil, 24 November 2012 - 03:41 PM.


#28 leftside

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:37 PM

Anybody tried 5-MeO-MiPT for nootropic uses? Wikipedia mentions that 3mg-6mg might be beneficial for these purposes.

#29 kassem23

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:40 AM

Anybody have experience with 2-CD. Those anecdotes were awesome, MeDieViL.

Too bad I react very bad to 5-HTergic psychedelics now. I seem to have some kind of bad sensitization to them. LSD and 4-AcO-DMT no longer agree with me.

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#30 Psionic

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:38 AM

Anybody tried 5-MeO-MiPT for nootropic uses? Wikipedia mentions that 3mg-6mg might be beneficial for these purposes.


yes it is, friend of my friend used that for this purpose, he said if yout overgo first wave of body buzz then it has fairly mood stabilizing benefits which can provide purity of thoughts.. it has therapeutical properties in terms of antidepressant effect, but you may find it is similar way of action like maoi (as cited in wiki: "although additional mechanisms of action such as inhibition of monoaminereuptake may be involved also"). Sense of music is also heightened so if you play an instrument so you may more easily decect mistakes you were making and bring greater insight into whole piece..




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