19 replies to this topic

[Frekke]

Hello!

I've got a problem with what you here on longecity calls brain fog. Created by a long use of drugs.
I've stopped using and started exercising and i've gotten a little bit clearer, but I want to be back as I was before, or as close as I can be.

English isn't my first language btw, just FYI.

So I was planning on trying out nootropics. And I was hoping on getting some feedback on my stack.


Week 1

NootroCetam - 1500mg's in the morning and 1500mg's in the afternoon.
Choline Bitartrate - 500mg's in the morning.
Sulbutiamine - 200mg's in the morning.


Week 2

NootroCetam - 1500mg's in the morning and 1500mg's in the afternoon.
Choline Bitartrate - 500mg's in the morning.
Sulbutiamine - 200mg's in the morning.
Aniracetam - 750mg's in the morning.


Week 3

NootroCetam - 1500mg's in the morning and 1500mg's in the afternoon.
Choline Bitartrate - 500mg's in the morning.
Sulbutiamine - 200mg's in the morning.
Aniracetam - 750mg's in the morning.
Picamilon - 100mg's in the morning.



Week 4

NootroCetam - 1500mg's in the morning and 1500mg's in the afternoon.
Choline Bitartrate - 500mg's in the morning.
Sulbutiamine - 200mg's in the morning.
Aniracetam - 750mg's in the morning.
Picamilon - 100mg's in the morning.
Oxiracetam - 1000mg's in the morning.




So what's your thoughts about this uplay?
And does anyone know where to get NootroCetam/Piracetam, Alpha GPC, Aniracetam, Picamilon, Oxiracetam and Sulbutiamine at the same website except for nootropic.eu?

Thank you.

[MercuryAX]

If anything, I found the racetams (besides prami, haven't tried) to not work for brain fog most of the time, if not make it worse. However, I've found antioxidants and energy/metabolism related supplements to work best for clear-headedness. For me this has included gingko, l-carnitine, ALCAR, etc. It's also definitely worth trying the vitamin B analogs such as the sulbutiamine and picamilon. Also pyritinol I believe, which allegedly speeds up reaction time.

NootroCetam...is that some sort of proprietary formula? If you're willing to spend a little extra, try the formula Perceptiv, which my university developed and did research on. Once I have some Perceptiv I'll review it on here for everyone though.

[Frekke]

If anything, I found the racetams (besides prami, haven't tried) to not work for brain fog most of the time, if not make it worse. However, I've found antioxidants and energy/metabolism related supplements to work best for clear-headedness. For me this has included gingko, l-carnitine, ALCAR, etc. It's also definitely worth trying the vitamin B analogs such as the sulbutiamine and picamilon. Also pyritinol I believe, which allegedly speeds up reaction time.

NootroCetam...is that some sort of proprietary formula? If you're willing to spend a little extra, try the formula Perceptiv, which my university developed and did research on. Once I have some Perceptiv I'll review it on here for everyone though.

From what I understand NootroCetam is the same as Piracetam. I'm not interested in forumulas. All i've seen have the wrong dosages and always some weird extra compounds in them.

EDIT: But apart from the brain fogginess that may accur. If I were to say like anybody else, does the set up look OK?

Edited by Frekke, 05 January 2013 - 12:41 AM.

[MercuryAX]

If anything, I found the racetams (besides prami, haven't tried) to not work for brain fog most of the time, if not make it worse. However, I've found antioxidants and energy/metabolism related supplements to work best for clear-headedness. For me this has included gingko, l-carnitine, ALCAR, etc. It's also definitely worth trying the vitamin B analogs such as the sulbutiamine and picamilon. Also pyritinol I believe, which allegedly speeds up reaction time.

NootroCetam...is that some sort of proprietary formula? If you're willing to spend a little extra, try the formula Perceptiv, which my university developed and did research on. Once I have some Perceptiv I'll review it on here for everyone though.

From what I understand NootroCetam is the same as Piracetam. I'm not interested in forumulas. All i've seen have the wrong dosages and always some weird extra compounds in them.

EDIT: But apart from the brain fogginess that may accur. If I were to say like anybody else, does the set up look OK?

Yes, what you have there does look ok considering how most people do it. Some people have found better success though, with using either lower doses of aniracetam or lower doses of choline. Many have found too much choline can be bad - causing depressive symptoms and extra fog (sometimes with drowsiness). Speaking for myself, again, it seems that about 250mg of either bitartrate or AGPC is enough to prevent headaches but avoid too much choline.

Also, try a lower dose of sulbutaimine to start. Some find it a bit strong to start off at 200mg.

Edited by MercuryAX, 05 January 2013 - 01:00 AM.

[Frekke]

If anything, I found the racetams (besides prami, haven't tried) to not work for brain fog most of the time, if not make it worse. However, I've found antioxidants and energy/metabolism related supplements to work best for clear-headedness. For me this has included gingko, l-carnitine, ALCAR, etc. It's also definitely worth trying the vitamin B analogs such as the sulbutiamine and picamilon. Also pyritinol I believe, which allegedly speeds up reaction time.

NootroCetam...is that some sort of proprietary formula? If you're willing to spend a little extra, try the formula Perceptiv, which my university developed and did research on. Once I have some Perceptiv I'll review it on here for everyone though.

From what I understand NootroCetam is the same as Piracetam. I'm not interested in forumulas. All i've seen have the wrong dosages and always some weird extra compounds in them.

EDIT: But apart from the brain fogginess that may accur. If I were to say like anybody else, does the set up look OK?

Yes, what you have there does look ok considering how most people do it. Some people have found better success though, with using either lower doses of aniracetam or lower doses of choline. Many have found too much choline can be bad - causing depressive symptoms and extra fog (sometimes with drowsiness). Speaking for myself, again, it seems that about 250mg of either bitartrate or AGPC is enough to prevent headaches but avoid too much choline.

Also, try a lower dose of sulbutaimine to start. Some find it a bit strong to start off at 200mg.

Okay, thanks for the feedback. I'll lower the doses on the sulbutaimine and choline.

[sapaiderman]

That's a lot of Nootropics in your stack...

Maybe you can keep it simple to start with, and just try adding some ALCAR, some antioxidants and vitamins to your new lifestyle of a healthy diet and plenty of exercise...

Edited by sapaiderman, 05 January 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[OpaqueMind]

When dealing with drug-induced brain alterations it seems best (in my experience) to go the natural route for a while, at least until significant function is recovered. You have disturbed the homeostasis of your nervous system and it is has adapted itself in order to compensate. Now that these alien chemicals are no longer in your system, your brain will begin to rewire itself in order to work more effectively as a unit. This is a delicate process, and does not need the hindrance of pulling it in another direction with nootropics.

Above all other things I recommend good nutrition, meditation and exercise. Meditation here serves two purposes, primarily it modulates diverse areas of the brain so that they begin to work in synchrony, which is a strong indicator of mental health. Secondly, it seems to reduce drug-cravings massively, and offers a detached place from which you can evaluate and make changes in your life. As far as additional supplements go, it makes sense to treat this similarly a Traumatic Brain Injury so BCAAs, ALCAR, B-Vitamins and Magnesium may be helpful.

Is there anything your passionate about? Having a passion in which you can develop a skill or knowledge base is greatly beneficial. The brain grows best when it has something to grow for. Also, keep socially active, as it will keep your spirits up and stimulates diverse areas of the brain (which is key here). Best of luck to you my friend.

Edited by OpaqueMind, 05 January 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[Frekke]

When dealing with drug-induced brain alterations it seems best (in my experience) to go the natural route for a while, at least until significant function is recovered. You have disturbed the homeostasis of your nervous system and it is has adapted itself in order to compensate. Now that these alien chemicals are no longer in your system, your brain will begin to rewire itself in order to work more effectively as a unit. This is a delicate process, and does not need the hindrance of pulling it in another direction with nootropics.

Above all other things I recommend good nutrition, meditation and exercise. Meditation here serves two purposes, primarily it modulates diverse areas of the brain so that they begin to work in synchrony, which is a strong indicator of mental health. Secondly, it seems to reduce drug-cravings massively, and offers a detached place from which you can evaluate and make changes in your life. As far as additional supplements go, it makes sense to treat this similarly a Traumatic Brain Injury so BCAAs, ALCAR, B-Vitamins and Magnesium may be helpful.

Is there anything your passionate about? Having a passion in which you can develop a skill or knowledge base is greatly beneficial. The brain grows best when it has something to grow for. Also, keep socially active, as it will keep your spirits up and stimulates diverse areas of the brain (which is key here). Best of luck to you my friend.

Thank you for the advice. Yes, I do have something i'm passionate about. It's reading, particularly sociology, psychology etc... but my dense brain fog makes it nearly impossible for me to read more than 20-30 pages at a go and leaves me mentally exhausted. I've already started with exercising and a more healthier diet. And most of the fog (but not all) and other problems are gone. First month or so I could barely be social but now it's not a problem anymore. This is why i'm now turning to nootropics.

I have decided to skip the oxiracetam from my stack and also I've decided to add potassium citrate (If i can find something price-worthy), BCAA, zink and magnesium. I think i'll start with all the non-nootropic supplements first, and as time go i'll add them like stated in my first post.

Meditation is something I've want to try. But it seems nearly impossible for me. I can't sit still and my entire body gets all twitchy. Well, well. Maybe it will be easier as time goes.

[Frekke]

Well, I've now made my order. The stuff will probably come sometime in the middle of next week.

My stack is going to look like this:

NootroCetam - 1500mg x3 with 6 hours apart
Alpha GPC - 300mg's in the morning.
Sulbutiamine - 100mg's in the morning.
Aniracetam - 750mg's in the morning.
Picamilon - 100mg's in the morning.

Adding one supplement every week.

Additionaly I will be eating creatine, omega 3 (thru diet), ZMA and maybe BCAA and antioxidants. Also I'm going to train at the gym 3 times a week.

I will update how I feel a couple of weeks in.

This stack is going to last for two months. Depending on how I feel on this stack I'm already thinking of trying out another stack containing pramiracetam, aniracetam, noopept, ALCAR, oxiracetam (only occasionaly when reading/studying at an intense level) and still keeping the sulbutiamine, picamilon and alpha GPC.

I was wondering if anyone here have any experience from eating 3 or more racetams at the same time. I was wondering about the pro's/con's and any other vital information.

[Mattheau]

If you don't mind me asking, what drugs did you abuse?

[Frekke]

If you don't mind me asking, what drugs did you abuse?

All kind of opiates, lyrica (EP medicine), benzodiazepines, "magic mushrooms" and a daily use of cannabis.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you wonder?

[Mattheau]

Because I too abused mostly opiates and adderall, on and off for a year. And I feel like it definitely had a negative impact on my overall cognition. I feel like my opiate abuse (oxycodone, heroin) has effected me the most. I don't know how to describe it exactly but after quitting I don't entirely feel the same as I once did. I am getting better but i have my days. I just ordered some piracetam, which I have used before with great success. I also ordered noopept and aniracetam for the first time. I plan on using them on and off for a long period of time in an attempt to induce BDNF.

[Frekke]

Because I too abused mostly opiates and adderall, on and off for a year. And I feel like it definitely had a negative impact on my overall cognition. I feel like my opiate abuse (oxycodone, heroin) has effected me the most. I don't know how to describe it exactly but after quitting I don't entirely feel the same as I once did. I am getting better but i have my days. I just ordered some piracetam, which I have used before with great success. I also ordered noopept and aniracetam for the first time. I plan on using them on and off for a long period of time in an attempt to induce BDNF.

Would you describe your mental state as kind of an dullness dumbness? Like a mental barrier that reminds itself all of the time when trying to do anything remotely intellectual and sometimes even social activities? A feeling of "I know I can do better then this but there is something blocking my capacity" kind of feeling? That's what I'm experiencing and have been doing so for nearly three years now. But things are A LOT better today, but I still get that feeling sometimes.

How do you feel that piracetam helped you? I'm very interested in your experiences from this. By the way, I've heard super things about the noopept/aniracetam combination. I think someones here on the forum coined it as the "Anipept" stack. I like it, it's catchy. Hope it works well for you, and I would be glad if you reported your anipept experiences in this thread as well.

Also, I'm quite interested in how on/off cycles on nootropics can induce BDNF (which I had to google to find out what it was btw). Cool stuff.

[Frekke]

I received my package today. I was a bit suspicious about if I really got the real stuff so I opened all the zip bags to smell the powder in each of them to see if they smelled differently. Which they did. Aniracetam smelled like licorice, just a note. Anyhow, I opened the sulbutiamine zippy and doing so resulted in a huge powder cloud hitting me right in the face. 30 minutes later I just f**king had to clean my room. I ingested the piracetam at the same time as inhaling the sulbutiamine cloud. But since i've read that the piracetam doesn't start to have its effect around two weeks in I strongly suspect that sulbutiamine was the villain in this cleaning drama. So I ingested 100 mg more sulbutiamine with water which tasted like shit (and so did the piracetam btw) but wow. God damn. I thought I had snorted a small dose of amfetamine or something. I could read twice as fast as usual, I had a lot of energy, couldn't sit still etc.

So I've decided that i'm going to start out with the piracetam, AGPC and sulbutiamine and then work my way up to aniracetam and picamilon week by week. I also received my ALCAR, ZMA and BCAA last week. I started taking ALCAR last friday and i've noticed effect already. On Saturday morning I made a personal best in DnB (even though I partied pretty hard the day before combining stilnoct, alcohol and smoking some weed). I hit 80% on my first round at D3B, which took me to D4B. Highest level I've reached so far. My averaged peaked too. On monday (today) I worked like never before. I didn't sit still in a corner talking to my friends as I usually do wasting time. I accomplished around 3-4 times more work then I do on average. The ZMA has made me sleep better and has made me have more vivid dreams. Which is a huge plus for me because because i'm into lucid dreaming. I always write down my dreams and the combination of melatonin and ZMA have resulted in AWESOME dreams.

The AGPC tasted very sweet. I could use it instead of sugar. I loved licking that sh*t right of the spoon like a sugar boss.

I'm going to report back in a week or two for more updates. If anyone else is in the same position as I stated in my first post. I can say this much, in less then a week I feel a lot better. A LOT. Please PM me if you have any questions or just reply in this thread if you're in the same position. No one should be stuck in a mental state like I've experienced.

EDIT: So my stack look like this now:

Piracetam 1.5g x 3 with six hours a part.
200 mg Alpha GPC in the morning.
100 mg sulbutiamine in the morning. (May up the dose during the week.

Next week I'll add the aniracetam.

Edited by Frekke, 21 January 2013 - 09:09 PM.

[xeon]

Any new updates? I'm very interested to know if you broke through your "mental barrier that blocks your capacity" that you mentioned, because I feel the same.

[Frekke]

Any new updates? I'm very interested to know if you broke through your "mental barrier that blocks your capacity" that you mentioned, because I feel the same.

I started experimenting with the troopics quite a bit and this is my own, most highly empiric experience.

The working combination from the products that I bought was aniracetam and ALCAR. This combinationen is dosages ranging from 750-1000 mg of aniracetam (twice a day, morning and at lunch) and 500-1000 mg of ALCAR in the morning gave some clarity, focus and somewhat alertness if I was doing something. If I had nothing to keep my head focused on I started feeling kind of tired. I singled out that it was the aniracetam that gave me the sleepy effect. I also suspect that high dosages of BCAA in this combination also gave some positive effect of clarity actually. I don't eat them anymore tho because I don't got the cash, but I will experiment some more with other troopics. I was thinking mainly of the noopept and aniracetam combination.

But the effects of the troopics wasn't really what i excpected. I think some of it was placebo. But I feel better today, as time has gone by. I'm definitly recovering.

[xeon]

Any new updates? I'm very interested to know if you broke through your "mental barrier that blocks your capacity" that you mentioned, because I feel the same.

I started experimenting with the troopics quite a bit and this is my own, most highly empiric experience.

The working combination from the products that I bought was aniracetam and ALCAR. This combinationen is dosages ranging from 750-1000 mg of aniracetam (twice a day, morning and at lunch) and 500-1000 mg of ALCAR in the morning gave some clarity, focus and somewhat alertness if I was doing something. If I had nothing to keep my head focused on I started feeling kind of tired. I singled out that it was the aniracetam that gave me the sleepy effect. I also suspect that high dosages of BCAA in this combination also gave some positive effect of clarity actually. I don't eat them anymore tho because I don't got the cash, but I will experiment some more with other troopics. I was thinking mainly of the noopept and aniracetam combination.

But the effects of the troopics wasn't really what i excpected. I think some of it was placebo. But I feel better today, as time has gone by. I'm definitly recovering.

Great! Glad to hear you're experiencing success! How does the ALCAR affect you by itself?

[Frekke]

Any new updates? I'm very interested to know if you broke through your "mental barrier that blocks your capacity" that you mentioned, because I feel the same.

I started experimenting with the troopics quite a bit and this is my own, most highly empiric experience.

The working combination from the products that I bought was aniracetam and ALCAR. This combinationen is dosages ranging from 750-1000 mg of aniracetam (twice a day, morning and at lunch) and 500-1000 mg of ALCAR in the morning gave some clarity, focus and somewhat alertness if I was doing something. If I had nothing to keep my head focused on I started feeling kind of tired. I singled out that it was the aniracetam that gave me the sleepy effect. I also suspect that high dosages of BCAA in this combination also gave some positive effect of clarity actually. I don't eat them anymore tho because I don't got the cash, but I will experiment some more with other troopics. I was thinking mainly of the noopept and aniracetam combination.

But the effects of the troopics wasn't really what i excpected. I think some of it was placebo. But I feel better today, as time has gone by. I'm definitly recovering.

Great! Glad to hear you're experiencing success! How does the ALCAR affect you by itself?

An energy boost is the acute effect. But in the long term it reduces the brain fog a bit. I've also experienced more vivid dreams.

[chris106]

In case your current stack shouldn't work in the log term (and of course I hope it does!), you should check out adaptogens! Some have quite the potency to restore normal, balanced brain/ neurotransmitter function, others are great against anxiety...

They helped me quite nicely, and while I'm not completely satisfied with the potency of their effects, they helped me in the most consistent, side-effect-free way out of all the supps I've tried so far!

A few worth looking into are: Rhodiola Rosea, Ashwagandha, Mucuna Pruriens, Schisandra, St Johns Wort, Lions mane and Panax Ginseng. There are a lot more, but those are the most potent ones with the most anecdotal reports to back up their effectiveness.
It would take a bit of finnicking around to see which of them are right for you, or which combinations work best - but they are all quite affordable if you buy them in organic powder form - it's definetely worth a try!

Also here's a nice site that judges a lot of noots in regards to their effectivenes regarding various symptoms, all based on human trials/studies!

http://examine.com/supplements/

Beware though, limited amounds of information from a few human studies and scientific papers doesn't necessarily mean all that much, if there's otherwise tons of anecdotal information from people who suggest otherwise...One should allways gather as much information as possible.

Anyways, it's at least good starting point to check out which supplements or substances COULD work for you!

Good luck on your nootropic journey

Edited by chris106, 19 May 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[helluva nootro]

Any updates on your stack? Glad you have found one that seems to be working for you