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methylene blue dosing for depression

methylene blue depression

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#1 penisbreath

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:51 AM


Hi, I bought some Methylene Blue in an attempt to tide me over while I wait for more conventional treatment for depression/anxiety (health insurance only kicks in in 4 weeks). I tend to respond well to MAOIs, so figured it was worth a shot.

However, everything in the archives talks about dosing in terms of mg. The stuff I bought comes with a little plastic cup that allows you to measure it out in ml (2.5ml - 35ml), so I was confused about how much I should take. Sorry, science isn't my forte, so I'm not particularly good with conversions.

Thanks

#2 Logic

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:29 AM

Dude!
You have to look @ the bottle and post the grams (of MB) per milliliter of solution before anyone can even consider a suggestion! :)

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#3 Fred_CALICO

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:56 AM

http://en.wikipedia....tion_(chemistry)

http://en.wikipedia....r_concentration

#4 MercuryAX

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:35 PM

Hey, you should check out my log in nootropic stacks, I'm doing a day-by-day analysis of its effects (on me, hopefully more people later). I've been working a lot with it lately so I'm interested in your experience once you figure out your dosage. I'm using about 1-3 micrograms about twice a day.

EDIT: It also might be worth mentioning...the MAO inhibiting effects don't appear to be noticeable unless you're taking higher doses than I am. According to Wikipedia, you would need over 5mg/kg to risk serotonin syndrome (when combined with SSRIs or other SRIs) , which could indicate that to exert an antidepressant effect to the degree of typical MAOIs, you'd need a much higher dosage than what most people take.

Of course, this doesn't discount the other positive effects ;)

Edited by MercuryAX, 05 February 2013 - 07:44 PM.


#5 penisbreath

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:36 AM

12mg/ml ...

#6 Fred_CALICO

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:18 PM

Your body mass in kilograms?
If it is X.
then 6*X/12 = (0.5 * X )mL /day

#7 penisbreath

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:58 PM

I'm 65kg, so 32.5ml a day?

#8 Fred_CALICO

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:58 PM

yes.

6*65 = 390 mg
390/12 = 32.5 mL


Think buy pharmacy methylene blue is dilute yourself.
1g of methylene blue in 1 L of water (1000 mL).
Then take a container feeder 30 mL daily.
Much less expensive solution.

#9 penisbreath

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:59 PM

yes.

6*65 = 390 mg
390/12 = 32.5 mL


Think buy pharmacy methylene blue is dilute yourself.
1g of methylene blue in 1 L of water (1000 mL).
Then take a container feeder 30 mL daily.
Much less expensive solution.



Hmm, I got this as an aquariam-supplies store. $8US for 150ml .. so that's a 5-day supply. I guess that's okay. I'll see what it does first ..

#10 Joe Cohen

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 06:10 PM

I've wrote a post about a simple method to take it. I find 60mcg is effective for depression.
http://selfhacked.co...itive-enhancer/

#11 niner

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:47 PM

The beauty of a placebo is that it doesn't matter how much you take. A microgram, a nanogram a picogram- all have fantastic results.
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#12 panhedonic

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:56 AM

Hmm, I got this as an aquariam-supplies store. $8US for 150ml .. so that's a 5-day supply. I guess that's okay. I'll see what it does first ..


Hmm, I think the TS is about to turn blue like a smurf...

150ml is not a 5-day supply...(if I understand correctly, that's what you seem to say here)
it's more like a 50 year supply. You have to check the dosage protocol carefully. mcg (micrograms) is not the same as Ml (millilitres) and is not the same as mg (milligrams) Please be careful.

#13 Absent

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:14 AM

It's interesting to hear people have results with MB. After the first time I tried it I through all of it in the trash. It was horrific. I dosed it perfectly, since I do these sorts of dilutions for a living... I had taken it and felt super blissful for around 5-20 minutes, and then afterwords I felt suicidal, homicidal, and all sorts of horrible delusional feelings for hours afterwards. It was by far the worst emotions I had ever felt... ever. Maybe I just don't respond well to MAOI's.. but after that I would never recommend that stuff to anyone.

#14 niner

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:17 AM

It's interesting to hear people have results with MB. After the first time I tried it I through all of it in the trash. It was horrific. I dosed it perfectly, since I do these sorts of dilutions for a living... I had taken it and felt super blissful for around 5-20 minutes, and then afterwords I felt suicidal, homicidal, and all sorts of horrible delusional feelings for hours afterwards. It was by far the worst emotions I had ever felt... ever. Maybe I just don't respond well to MAOI's.. but after that I would never recommend that stuff to anyone.


How much did you take?

#15 Joe Cohen

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:25 AM

The beauty of a placebo is that it doesn't matter how much you take. A microgram, a nanogram a picogram- all have fantastic results.


What makes you so sure it's a placebo effect in the microgram dosages?

#16 Absent

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:25 AM

It's interesting to hear people have results with MB. After the first time I tried it I through all of it in the trash. It was horrific. I dosed it perfectly, since I do these sorts of dilutions for a living... I had taken it and felt super blissful for around 5-20 minutes, and then afterwords I felt suicidal, homicidal, and all sorts of horrible delusional feelings for hours afterwards. It was by far the worst emotions I had ever felt... ever. Maybe I just don't respond well to MAOI's.. but after that I would never recommend that stuff to anyone.


How much did you take?


It was quite some time ago, so I'm not entirely sure, but I had dosed it well below the dose recommended in whatever thread was talking about it at the time. It could have come into conflict with something else I was taking(only piracetam/fish oil/choline/b-vits), but whatever happened, I would never take it again... the feeling was so horrible. I would rather lose my entire family that I love in some freak accident and deal with that emotion than to deal with the emotions caused by MB. It was that bad.

#17 Joe Cohen

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:28 AM

It's interesting to hear people have results with MB. After the first time I tried it I through all of it in the trash. It was horrific. I dosed it perfectly, since I do these sorts of dilutions for a living... I had taken it and felt super blissful for around 5-20 minutes, and then afterwords I felt suicidal, homicidal, and all sorts of horrible delusional feelings for hours afterwards. It was by far the worst emotions I had ever felt... ever. Maybe I just don't respond well to MAOI's.. but after that I would never recommend that stuff to anyone.


How much did you take?


It was quite some time ago, so I'm not entirely sure, but I had dosed it well below the dose recommended in whatever thread was talking about it at the time. It could have come into conflict with something else I was taking(only piracetam/fish oil/choline/b-vits), but whatever happened, I would never take it again... the feeling was so horrible. I would rather lose my entire family that I love in some freak accident and deal with that emotion than to deal with the emotions caused by MB. It was that bad.


You probably dosed in the milligram arena. I dose at 30-60mcg.

#18 Absent

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:38 AM

It's interesting to hear people have results with MB. After the first time I tried it I through all of it in the trash. It was horrific. I dosed it perfectly, since I do these sorts of dilutions for a living... I had taken it and felt super blissful for around 5-20 minutes, and then afterwords I felt suicidal, homicidal, and all sorts of horrible delusional feelings for hours afterwards. It was by far the worst emotions I had ever felt... ever. Maybe I just don't respond well to MAOI's.. but after that I would never recommend that stuff to anyone.


How much did you take?


It was quite some time ago, so I'm not entirely sure, but I had dosed it well below the dose recommended in whatever thread was talking about it at the time. It could have come into conflict with something else I was taking(only piracetam/fish oil/choline/b-vits), but whatever happened, I would never take it again... the feeling was so horrible. I would rather lose my entire family that I love in some freak accident and deal with that emotion than to deal with the emotions caused by MB. It was that bad.


You probably dosed in the milligram arena. I dose at 30-60mcg.

No... the dosage was definitely far below 60mcg. I work part as a compounding chemist so it's pretty much my job to know how to dilute and dose things so that I don't kill somebody.

It could have very well been that I was on a 30g/30g megadose of Piracetam/Fish Oil at the time.... since that combination basically potentiates every substance on the planet times a million. Though, Isochroma didn't indicate that he experienced any negative feelings on MB while megadosing P/FO, so who knows.

Edited by Siro, 28 August 2013 - 01:41 AM.


#19 mrnootropic

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 05:06 PM

Where do you even get methylene blue from ?

Ive seen it at aquarium stores lol.

Is this the one everyone buys ? Ive seen it for £3.95 for 100 Ml which is cheap.

This is one thing i know nothing about, im pretty interested..

#20 mrnootropic

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 05:11 PM



Hmm, I think the TS is about to turn blue like a smurf...

150ml is not a 5-day supply...(if I understand correctly, that's what you seem to say here)
it's more like a 50 year supply. You have to check the dosage protocol carefully. mcg (micrograms) is not the same as Ml (millilitres) and is not the same as mg (milligrams) Please be careful.


Hahaha, 50 year supply !!! i was thinking the same thing, 150 ML is NOT a 5 day supply LOL..

I know nothing about methylene blue but i know that at least LOL.. Be careful you dont want to get an adverse reaction and mess yourself up.

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#21 niner

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:49 AM

The beauty of a placebo is that it doesn't matter how much you take. A microgram, a nanogram a picogram- all have fantastic results.


What makes you so sure it's a placebo effect in the microgram dosages?


There are a lot of things that point toward it. The 60 ug dose, the so-called "nootropic dose", was based on an erroneous estimate in an old post here. Someone was trying to hit a 100 nM systemic level, but that would take tens of milligrams (about a thousand times as much) from an oral dose. As it happens, MB is on the way to being approved for a couple different types of dementia, but the trial doses were 60mg three times a day. MB has some moderate MAO activity, but my recollection is that it would take 100+ mg to reach the IC50 for the most sensitive MAO subtype, orally. MB is an old drug- it's been used for over a century, with doses that have run to as much as half a gram.

MB is a very facile redox agent, and can rapidly accept or donate an electron, depending on its current oxidation state. Because of this, it exhibits nonlinear "hormetic" dose response relationships in a variety of physiological situations, as described in this review. At first glance, this seems like an argument for activity at low concentrations, at least potentially. However, in every case studied, the concentrations with optimal effect are wildly higher than 60mcg in a human. For example, in the review, optimal concentrations in animals, dosing either IP or IV were:

memory enhancement: 1 mg/kg
wheel running: 4 mg/kg
anxiolysis: 7.5 mg/kg
Ischemia/Reperfusion Injury: 3-20 mg/kg
in vitro experiments: 0.5 uM, which probably corresponds to multiple hundreds of mg when dosed orally in a human.

Drugs that are active at the microgram level are few and far between. In literally every biological response report that I've seen, the doses were orders of magnitude higher than 60 ug per human. On this basis, the odds of a potent nootropic effect at that dose are very low.

There are a couple other categories of observations that also play into my belief that the reported effects are placebo. First, the type of effects are mostly psychotropic, which is probably the easiest kind of effect to elicit by placebo. Second, the drug has a lot of hype behind it. Expectations are high. Third, the use of it involved brewing up an intensely colored solution and drinking it. This is a very placebogenic activity. Fourth, a lot of people from our forum have tried it, many (including myself) experimenting with a wide range of dosages. A lot of people have had experiences that they describe as incredible, and a lot of people have felt nothing. I've gotten to know a lot of these people through their posts and sometimes through PMs or personal meetings. I've noticed that the "responders" and "non-responders" are not randomly distributed. The responders TEND to be (i.e. these are NOT exclusive characterizations!) younger people with less scientific knowledge, more interest in nootropics. The non-responders TEND to be older people with more scientific knowledge who have a greater interest in health than in nootropics.

All this makes me lean strongly toward a placebo effect, though I can't rule out a drug response. If it exists, it would probably involve a terrifically subtle redox phenomenon that tends to go away with age, and perhaps experience.
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