16 replies to this topic

[spermidine]

i had the cheaper alpha lipoic acid few times and i remember it was kind of acidic in taste and and had strong sulfur smell. but then i was reading people recomending the more expensive version the stabilized lipoic acid R-LA because its more bioavailable, more of an antioxidant than pro-oxidant (which cheaper one is said to be at times) and here is what i can say.
First i got the Jarrow brand which i usually avoid cuz few of the supplements i got from them were half filled or mostly not reliable BUT this time i got the stabilized lipoic acid from them because it seems to be patended by another company. anyway, i open caps and no sulfur smell or any acidic taste. just.... powder. needless to say, it did not work at all i took it whole week in big doses too.
Second, i thought jarrow sucks so i got LEF stabilized lipoic acid, same shit. no sulfur smell, no acidic taste. took high doses all week, no results.

questions i have, is stabilized lipoic acid bullshit scam for expensive price ? why does it not have same natural sulfur, acidic taste as the cheaper ALA ? did anyone have experiences like those and care to tell me if they noticed difference in results and/or same situation as me ?

im questioning the expensive stabilized lipoic acid until some further proof.

[spermidine]

its very common and popular used supplement, i guess people on this forum just arent that much into it.

[Unstoppable]

Two isomers of a compound can have different properties. Not sure if taste/smell of ALA/R-ALA differs tho. I always had caps/pills and never cared to smell them.

Edited by Unstoppable, 26 March 2013 - 09:18 PM.

[niner]

I don't know of any evidence that RLA is more bioavailable or is a better antioxidant than racemic ALA. RLA is less stable than ALA, which is why it needs to be stabilized. The stabilization is probably just done by forming a salt, which would explain the lack of the taste and smell of ALA. I used to take ALA years ago, but as far as I'm concerned it's completely superseded by c60-oo.

[spermidine]

im saying R-LA is fake and it doesnt work but fuck it, ill just avoid R-LA thought to help others too tho.

I don't know of any evidence that RLA is more bioavailable or is a better antioxidant than racemic ALA. RLA is less stable than ALA, which is why it needs to be stabilized. The stabilization is probably just done by forming a salt, which would explain the lack of the taste and smell of ALA. I used to take ALA years ago, but as far as I'm concerned it's completely superseded by c60-oo.

what did you take it for and you think c60-oo works like ALA but much better ?

[niner]

I wouldn't say it's fake, just overpriced and probably unnecessary. I was taking it as an antioxidant. It has some other effects, like lowering blood sugar, that may or may not be what you want. C60-oo is a way better antioxidant with way better pharmacokinetics. There's just no comparison.

[spermidine]

niner, i thought of it as helpful in alcohol toxicity, perhaps even liver protection.

[niner]

Maybe a little, but I think you'd have better luck with NAC for hangover and silymarin for liver protection.

[Unstoppable]

I don't know of any evidence that RLA is more bioavailable or is a better antioxidant than racemic ALA. RLA is less stable than ALA, which is why it needs to be stabilized. The stabilization is probably just done by forming a salt, which would explain the lack of the taste and smell of ALA. I used to take ALA years ago, but as far as I'm concerned it's completely superseded by c60-oo.

In fact, all positive effects from ALA are caused by the R-isomer, the L-isomer reduces these effects because the body doesn't recognize this, also in nature, only the R-isomer exists. A lot of biologic active substances produce their effect trough only one isomer, Where the other isomer can be as innocent as 'inactive' but on the other end produce severe unwanted Side effects, take a look @ wikipedia under the enantiopure drug section for more examples.

In case of ALA, the R/S enantiomers both compete for receptor binding but only the R isomer produces the positive effects, so taking this in its pure form would result in more effective receptor binding and thus more positive effect.

[Andey]

I don't know of any evidence that RLA is more bioavailable or is a better antioxidant than racemic ALA. RLA is less stable than ALA, which is why it needs to be stabilized. The stabilization is probably just done by forming a salt, which would explain the lack of the taste and smell of ALA. I used to take ALA years ago, but as far as I'm concerned it's completely superseded by c60-oo.

In fact, all positive effects from ALA are caused by the R-isomer, the L-isomer reduces these effects because the body doesn't recognize this, also in nature, only the R-isomer exists. A lot of biologic active substances produce their effect trough only one isomer, Where the other isomer can be as innocent as 'inactive' but on the other end produce severe unwanted Side effects, take a look @ wikipedia under the enantiopure drug section for more examples.

In case of ALA, the R/S enantiomers both compete for receptor binding but only the R isomer produces the positive effects, so taking this in its pure form would result in more effective receptor binding and thus more positive effect.

Any studies to prove this fact ?

[Unstoppable]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9383983/

[niner]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9383983/

Well, that's dihydrolipoamide, a related compound, but not lipoic acid. I did a little looking, and there are some indications that if you're using lipoic acid for the treatment of diabetic sequelae, the R isomer may be better. The traditional use in the LE community was as an antioxidant in healthy people, and I still don't know of any evidence that R is better there. One thing to watch out for is commercial interests in work on lipoic acid. There are people who have a vested interest in the sale of the R isomer who tend to talk it up. The R/S mixture is more stable (less prone to polymerization) than pure R, and of course it's less expensive. I did notice this suggestion that the racemic (R/S) mixture has other advantages:

Biewenga GP, Haenen GRMM, Groen BH, Biewenga JE, Van Grondelle R, Bast A (1997). "Combined non-enzymatic and enzymatic reduction favors bioactivation of racemic lipoic acid: an advantage of a racemic drug?". Chirality 9: 362-6.

Edited by niner, 27 March 2013 - 12:52 PM.

[Matt79]

I wouldn't say it's fake, just overpriced and probably unnecessary. I was taking it as an antioxidant. It has some other effects, like lowering blood sugar, that may or may not be what you want. C60-oo is a way better antioxidant with way better pharmacokinetics. There's just no comparison.

 

That's quite a strong statement. 4 years on do you still feel the same way or was C60-oo overhyped in comparison?

[Oakman]

ALA (both types) has effects based on clinical studies. A good place that collects & summarizes these is examine.com. Basing your opinions on whether you "feel something" after a week or whatever of using ALA (and most other supplements) is not a good determiner of its effects, or whether you might want to continue its use IMHO. Some benefits play out over the long haul and are not evident on a conscious level.

 

As to the ALA or Na-R-ALA choice, it appears there is slim evidence of any definitive benefit of one over the other, besides its stability. 

[RWhigham]

According to the Cutler Protocol alpha-lipoic acid supplements cause any mercury in the brain to redistribute, which can cause worse damage, unless the mercury is removed by taking  ALA together with a chelator such as DMSA, in a low-dose frequent-repetition protocol. Anyone who has had a lot of mercury amalgam fillings or other exposure to mercury is at risk.

 

Andy Cutler chelation, is a low/frequent dose oral chelation method developed by Andrew Hall Cutler, PhD, a chemist who found himself poisoned by his mercury amalgams.   https://www.recoveri...getting-started

 

Edited by RWhigham, 12 April 2017 - 04:20 PM.

[pamojja]

According to the Cutler Protocol alpha-lipoic acid supplements cause any mercury in the brain to redistribute, which can cause worse damage, unless the mercury is removed by taking  ALA together with a chelator such as DMSA, following his protocol.

 

Would have to be properly studied. Actually he thinks ALA chelates mercury and redistributes it to the brain, where it would cause more harm. Therefore the addition of the second chelator to get it exceeded. Personally have taken ALA counter his protocol for many years, and experienced no ill effects.
 

Edited by pamojja, 12 April 2017 - 04:20 PM.

[pamojja]

As to the ALA or Na-R-ALA choice, it appears there is slim evidence of any definitive benefit of one over the other, besides its stability. 

 

As you said, the problem is really, there are numerous studies showing the effects of regular ALA. With a new compound like Na-R-ALA there aren't yet.