20 replies to this topic

[enigma]

Hi, this is my first post, ive read a few other threads and im hoping to get some advice from what seems like a very well informed and intelligent comunity.

Ive always had a problem with concentration/motivation, my attention shifts very easily. This
problem is amplified when it comes to tasks which are undesirable. I am doing a commerce
degree, unfortunatley I find much of the topic matter particularly boring.  I find myself unable
to pay attention in lectures and I procrastinate when it comes to study. When I do study, I usually
get distracted immediatley or find that often I have read whole pages and taken in none to very
little of the content. I have not been to a lecture for about 5 weeks because they are effectively
of no use to me, exams are in one month, needless to say I need to catch up to pass and I put a high
value on passing.

I currently take the following daily.

DMAE - 500 mg
Ginkgo Biloba - 250mg


Last year was the only year I ever did well in school and I put that down largely to DMAE which gave me
some sense of focus and drive. However, the drug no longer has any significant effect, i have become immune over time.

I realise that everyone could use more focus and motivation, its just that I lack these things in the extreme
. I think I have a lot of the symptoms of ADD although I am not hyperactive and generally docile. Infact I
am skeptical as to whether ADD actually exists because i think everyone has the symptoms of ADD to an extent.

I have put a lot of research into motivation and looked for inspiration
from a number of sources, nothing has helped me long term and nothing has helped me focus. If drugs can help then I am willing to take them even at some compromise to health because at the moment and as usual I feel that my consciousness has only slight control over my mind and that I am extremely unproductive and far from my potential due to this.

What are the best nootropics for increasing motivation and or focus?

I am an 18 year old male by the way and from experience I am quite sensetive to drugs, any help would be appreciated.

[LifeMirage]

Quote

Hi, this is my first post, ive read a few other threads and im hoping to get some advice from what seems like a very well informed and intelligent comunity.

Ive always had a problem with concentration/motivation, my attention shifts very easily. This
problem is amplified when it comes to tasks which are undesirable. I am doing a commerce
degree, unfortunatley I find much of the topic matter particularly boring. I find myself unable
to pay attention in lectures and I procrastinate when it comes to study. When I do study, I usually
get distracted immediatley or find that often I have read whole pages and taken in none to very
little of the content. I have not been to a lecture for about 5 weeks because they are effectively
of no use to me, exams are in one month, needless to say I need to catch up to pass and I put a high
value on passing.

I currently take the following daily.

DMAE - 500 mg
Ginkgo Biloba - 250mg


Last year was the only year I ever did well in school and I put that down largely to DMAE which gave me
some sense of focus and drive. However, the drug no longer has any significant effect, i have become immune over time.

I realise that everyone could use more focus and motivation, its just that I lack these things in the extreme
. I think I have a lot of the symptoms of ADD although I am not hyperactive and generally docile. Infact I
am skeptical as to whether ADD actually exists because i think everyone has the symptoms of ADD to an extent.

I have put a lot of research into motivation and looked for inspiration
from a number of sources, nothing has helped me long term and nothing has helped me focus. If drugs can help then I am willing to take them even at some compromise to health because at the moment and as usual I feel that my consciousness has only slight control over my mind and that I am extremely unproductive and far from my potential due to this.

What are the best nootropics for increasing motivation and or focus?

I am an 18 year old male by the way and from experience I am quite sensetive to drugs, any help would be appreciated.

Centrophenoxine & Pyritinol tend to work best for focus.

Galantamine and Deprenyl for motivation.

[enigma]

Thanks, im trying deprenyl, the effect so far has primarily been one of greatly improved alertness.  I intend to try pyritinol
and substitute DMAE for centrophexine at some point in the future.

I tried piracetam for about a week and im certain that this had a significant effect on my creativity and logic forming,.
When writing, ideas seemed to flow from the pen quickly and with ease.  I didnt realise what an effect it had until I stopped
taking it, due to running out. After i stopped taking it my mind went back to how it was.

Does anyone know the best supplements for enhancing the effect of Piracetam? What is better Centrophexine, Alpha GPC or
Choline? Would hydregine or Acetyl-L-Carnitine enhance the effect? I was taking it with 350 - 500mg of DMAE previously.

Tried Adrafinil in 200mg - 400mg per day quantities for one week, enhanced alertness and made me slightly euphoric but
severely worsened memory and learning capacity. Most noticeably Speech and langauge became extremely difficult, I have
read a few testimonials of similar effects with modafinil, around 1 in 25 people seemed to complain about some form of
cognitive dysfunction caused by modafinil. Remedyfind.com is a good source of testimonails.

I intend to experiment with other nootropics in the future.

Edited by enigma, 06 June 2005 - 09:40 AM.

[LifeMirage]

Quote

Does anyone know the best supplements for enhancing the effect of Piracetam?

Choline compounds and hydergine.

Quote

What is better Centrophexine, Alpha GPC or Choline?

Better for memory GPC, better for antiaging centrophenoxine.

[ozone]

LifeMirage said:

Quote

Hi, this is my first post, ive read a few other threads and im hoping to get some advice from what seems like a very well informed and intelligent comunity.

Ive always had a problem with concentration/motivation, my attention shifts very easily. This
problem is amplified when it comes to tasks which are undesirable. I am doing a commerce
degree, unfortunatley I find much of the topic matter particularly boring. I find myself unable
to pay attention in lectures and I procrastinate when it comes to study. When I do study, I usually
get distracted immediatley or find that often I have read whole pages and taken in none to very
little of the content. I have not been to a lecture for about 5 weeks because they are effectively
of no use to me, exams are in one month, needless to say I need to catch up to pass and I put a high
value on passing.

I currently take the following daily.

DMAE - 500 mg
Ginkgo Biloba - 250mg


Last year was the only year I ever did well in school and I put that down largely to DMAE which gave me
some sense of focus and drive. However, the drug no longer has any significant effect, i have become immune over time.

I realise that everyone could use more focus and motivation, its just that I lack these things in the extreme
. I think I have a lot of the symptoms of ADD although I am not hyperactive and generally docile. Infact I
am skeptical as to whether ADD actually exists because i think everyone has the symptoms of ADD to an extent.

I have put a lot of research into motivation and looked for inspiration
from a number of sources, nothing has helped me long term and nothing has helped me focus. If drugs can help then I am willing to take them even at some compromise to health because at the moment and as usual I feel that my consciousness has only slight control over my mind and that I am extremely unproductive and far from my potential due to this.

What are the best nootropics for increasing motivation and or focus?

I am an 18 year old male by the way and from experience I am quite sensetive to drugs, any help would be appreciated.

Centrophenoxine & Pyritinol tend to work best for focus.

Galantamine and Deprenyl for motivation.

Hey LifeMirage, I can understand why you said Deprenyl can help motivation, but why Galantamine? It does the exact same thing as Huperzine A (i.e., both are acetylcholine inhibitors), but I've never heard of Huperzine A being professed as a motivation "helper".

If you're referring to this article where it says Galantamine can help fatigue, I don't believe that's the same as "motivation" which is more controlled by dopamine and thus affected by Deprenyl. Thoughts?

[bacopacabana]

For focus you might try the Spike product at www.t-nation.com, a bodybuilding type site.  Although it contains caffeine, which I'm not a big fan of, the listed active ingredient is thiamine di(2-methylpropionate disulfide), which I haven't been able to find anything about.  It's definitely better than coffee for me.  Also, for energy their Powerdrive is a decent tyrosine based product with phosphatidyl choline and DMAE.  Much better tasting than the Durk and Sandy products I've tried.

[virago]

LifeMirage,

I have heard a good deal about Galantamine, but never about it increasing motivation.  Do you have any further information on this, such as a study, link, etc? Thank you.

-Vira

[LifeMirage]

Quote

Hey LifeMirage, I can understand why you said Deprenyl can help motivation, but why Galantamine? It does the exact same thing as Huperzine A (i.e., both are acetylcholine inhibitors), but I've never heard of Huperzine A being professed as a motivation "helper".

If you're referring to this article where it says Galantamine can help fatigue, I don't believe that's the same as "motivation" which is more controlled by dopamine and thus affected by Deprenyl. Thoughts?

While Huperzine A and Galanatmine both share the cognitive effect of inhibiting AChE, Galantamine has an additional effect. It modulates the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (which would appear to also effect Dopamine release*).

*Mol Pharmacol. 2004 Sep;66(3):538-44
Cholinergic drugs for Alzheimer's disease enhance in vitro dopamine release.

Quote

LifeMirage,

I have heard a good deal about Galantamine, but never about it increasing motivation. Do you have any further information on this, such as a study, link, etc? Thank you.

-Vira

While I wish they would do a study on compounds that effect motivation, it is not consider a valid reason for a study.

My recommendation for using it in motivation comes from my own personal experience (pm me for details), using it in over 500 people, and my understanding of neurochemical effects.

Edited by LifeMirage, 22 June 2005 - 06:05 AM.

[ryan1113]

Lack of focus and motivation can be traced to a number of different things, depending on the person.

For instance, depression is often associated with lack of focus and motivation, and may require treatment either in the form of counseling, drugs, or changes in lifestyle and habits.

In general, making unhealthy lifestyle choices may result in this.   If one is not healthy physically and mentally, then one should expect it.

Even something as simple as sleeping at the wrong hours by habitually staying up too late and getting up late can cause one to feel lethargic and unmotivated longterm.  

People who are overweight and don't exercise or eat right are more susceptible to this problem.  People who don't have an active enough personal life (friends, activities, hobbies, romance, etc.), may feel unomotivated because they do not have enough to look forward to, etc.  There are a very long list of potential factors which can lead to this.  And the problem is often self-perpetuating.  In order to feel more motivated, a person may often have to discipline himself and force himself to do more of the things he does not feel motivated to do.  

You should first consider all aspects of your lifestyle and physical and mental health before you resort to looking for chemicals.

Edited by ryan1113, 22 June 2005 - 05:31 AM.

[LifeMirage]

Quote

Lack of focus and motivation can be traced to a number of different things, depending on the person.

For instance, depression is often associated with lack of focus and motivation, and may require treatment either in the form of counseling, drugs, or changes in lifestyle and habits.

In general, making unhealthy lifestyle choices may result in this. If one is not healthy physically and mentally, then one should expect it.

Even something as simple as sleeping at the wrong hours by habitually staying up too late and getting up late can cause one to feel lethargic and unmotivated longterm.

People who are overweight and don't exercise or eat right are more susceptible to this problem. People who don't have an active enough personal life (friends, activities, hobbies, romance, etc.), may feel unomotivated because they do not have enough to look forward to, etc. There are a very long list of potential factors which can lead to this. And the problem is often self-perpetuating. In order to feel more motivated, a person may often have to discipline himself and force himself to do more of the things he does not feel motivated to do.

You should first consider all aspects of your lifestyle and physical and mental health before you resort to looking for chemicals

True.... while others have a biochemical imbalance and need to correct it through natural dietary supplements or drugs.

[enigma]

Quote

Depression is often associated with lack of focus and motivation

Im not depressed, but, a point of thought for you. Is depression a major cause of lack of focus and motivation? or is lack of focus and motivation a major cause of depression?

From what Ive researched SSRIs dont usually help much with peoples motivation when they have moderate to mild depression. However, I think that drugs for depression that assist in the reduction of anxiety may decrease anti-motivative stressors such as excessively thinking about the negative consequence of an action. They would likely also decrease pro-motivative stressors however, such as considering the bad outcomes of not acting. Net effect on motivation � unknown?

Quote

People who don't have an active enough personal life (friends, activities, hobbies, romance, etc.), may feel unomotivated because they do not have enough to look forward to

People who dont have an active enough personal life may sometimes not have this because they dont have enough motivation to seek it. These correlations you make dont show which variable is dependent on which.

Quote

True.... while others have a biochemical imbalance and need to correct it through natural dietary supplements or drugs.

Ive come around to the idea that motivation for deferred gratification can be enhanced by supplements and dopamine. My brother claims to be several times more productive being on deprenyl.


Infact why people are motivated to act the way they do has been an interest of myne for a while now, there is an irrational inconsistency in most people to varying extents that is often referred to as laziness which I define as.

The inconsistency between those actions that a person perceives will bring about the greatest benefit and those actions, which he or she performs in actuality

Ive recently started doing some researchon why this inconsistency exists (in evolutionary terms) and I now have a good idea of how this inconsistency can be reduced. It alarms me that the current most widely accepted theory on motivation is Maslows hierarchy, which is exceptionally basic and does not account for genetic variation. Maslows hierarchy makes a few generalizations and tells us very little of why a person takes a certain action.

Some of the things that ive discovered so far

*Dopamine reduces the inconsistency.
*Increased energy would likely reduce the inconsistency.
*A reduction in anxiety and stress would probably reduce the inconsistency in most.
*Higher confidence in an area increases the likeliness of the action relative to that area, this is what I call categorical confidence.
*People are naturally skewed towards inaction in certain categories, given a lack survival pressure. This, however can be counteracted by training in certain areas.
*Frustration is a motivator.
*Better memory would likely aid in the equivalent of a motivation increase.

It seems that it would be a natural effect of human evolution(in different extents due to genetic variation/upbringing) that we do not always attempt to act on consciously percieved thoughts that maximise utility. This is because, in cavedweller times, acting in this way would not have always been maximal for achieving those effects which evolution promotes. There are a number of reasons for this, none of which are relevent to the modern world. If i get around to writing down my research I might post my findings in the articles section.

BTW, now that I take a number of supplements, I no longer have any problem with focus, I can now have a conversation with someone and pay perfect attention to what they say.

Edited by enigma, 23 June 2005 - 06:59 AM.

[rodentman]

Im only replying because you sound identicle to me.

I too have the lethal combination of attention and motivation defecit.

My attention wanders so often that I've found myself driving 15 minutes in the wrong direction without it realizing it, or putting the milk in the cupboard and the cereal in the fridge, etc etc.
Ive found nearly every job Ive had, I get fired from.  (Ive managed teaching, but even that is difficult).  

My suggestions.

do you have an ideal time of day??

Some people think better at night, others in the morning.    If this is a factor for you, build your life around this.  For example, I do everything that requires thinking and concentration in the morning.

Use caffien and other stimulants strategically.  This actually changed my life.  I always take 200 mg of caffien (2 cups) in the morning, and it usually helps my focus.

Get the right amount of sleep.  For me its just under 8 hours.

remove all potential distractions.  Especially since your 18, you might consider having a good night of sex the night before.  Work in a calm environment.  etc etc.

RodentMan

[enigma]

Quote

Im only replying because you sound identicle to me.

Hey Rodent man, my focus and motivation is actually a great deal better now, assisted strongly by certain nootropics I take. If you would like to improve your your own focus and motivation I would suggest looking into nootropics  [thumb] Some of them would seem to have anti aging benefits too (indicated by the research)

[wannafulfill]

In philosophical quandaries like this, I like to consult the great minds, if you will:

"Genius is one percent inspiration, and ninety-nine percent perspiration."
~Thomas Alva Edison [1847-1931]

and,

"Invention, my dear friends, is ninety-three percent perspiration, six percent electricity, four percent evaporation, and two percent butterscotch ripple."
~Willy Wonka

If we make these statements talk, and adapt them a little, we reach a dialectic:

"motivation is, dear extensioners, 1 percent inspiration, 62 percent perspiration, 7 percent deprenyl, and 4 percent galantamine"
~wannafulfill

[enigma]

Quote

"motivation is, dear extensioners, 1 percent inspiration, 62 percent perspiration, 7 percent deprenyl, and 4 percent galantamine"

LOL!

[rodentman]

Hey Enigma.

What regimine are you taking???

Brian

[enigma]

Quote

What regimine are you taking???

9:00 am

1 * Multi Vit
1 * tsp lecithin
1600mg piracetam
100mg R-ALA
250mg Centrophenoxine (focus)

10:00 am

2mg Deprenyl (goal oriented motivation)
700mg ALCAR (focus, possibly)

2pm

1 * tsp lecithin
1600mg piracetam
250mg Centrophenoxine (focus)

11:45pm

50mg 5HTP
500mg vitamin B5

Also I take a number of nootropics/aminos occasionally.

The strongest motivational Ive had from a nootropic has been from Pramiracetam, none from the other major racetams.

[johnmk]

I wonder what  Pramiracetam's mechanism of action might be. Motivation typically has something to do with norepinephrine and dopamine, are we sure it's not pro-oxidative or neurotoxic on these systems when used long-term?

[wannafulfill]

johnmk said:

Are we sure it's not pro-oxidative or neurotoxic on these systems when used long-term?

No, like other nootropics we take, all we have to go on are a few reports that almost never tell us as much as you'd like to know about long-term use

[rodentman]

Thanks for the breakdown.  I was thinking of something similar, but I wanted to start with Pyritinol, since Im hearing good things about it.  

Do you notice a difference with Deprenyl ?  

You might wanna try fish oil too.  It seems to have helped me a bit, at least in large doses.

RodentMan

[mitkat]

big respects to wannafulfill for the percentage breakdown [thumb]