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Intense brain fog. All day. Ruining my life.

brain fog mental fog help please fog tired fatigue hypothyroid thyroid

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#1 Esoparagon

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:46 AM


How can I cure my nearly debilitating intense daily brain fog. It lasts from when i wake up to when I go to bed. I need my intelligence back for my studies.
Could noopept have destroyed my brain? I havent taken it in a few months.
What causes brain fog? Is going to a doctor a good idea?

I can't understand what I read at uni. I usually follow lectures and understand as it is going along. I cant remember things academic or in my life. I forget my wallet, keys, mobile phone. Ive fallen on stairs now three times because I'm so out of it. I wake up every morning to an alarm feeling dead. I set 8 alarms because I sleep through so many, or hear them but dont react. If I dont set alarms i sleep 10+ hours and feel even worse. It's been like this now for a few months. I suck at tests. I cant concentrate on anything. I feel like I'm going to end up on the streets. I will go to a doctor soon, but I keep forgetting to call them... because my brain is struggling just to keep up with uni.

Maybe it is potassium? Maybe I have sleep apnea?

Further information:
Lifestyle + Exercise habits / Fitness level: I exercise 1-2 a week. I do body by science super slow weight lifting once or sometimes twice a week (as is recommened by Dr. Doug McGuff). I have some muscle mass built up but not a great amount. Biceps are 14 inches flexed. I leg press 138kg, bench only about 70kg, and row machine about 72kg, pull down 50kg. I can curl 15-20kg. So I'm not greatly strong but I'm not weak as hell. I do about 20-30 minutes of HIIT usually once a week and sometimes do some stationary bike or sprints outside in the morning. Probably about 25% body fat. Recently put on weight but will be getting back down. Male. 23 years old. 194cm tall. Australian. Uni student. Live alone. I have eaten keto in the past. I lost ~15kg last year 108kg to 92kg, but put on about 8 this year, but some of that is likely muscle due to my lifting. When I was 17 I was 85kg and wish to get back to that weight. I eat lots of green beans, cauliflower, brocolli, some berries, walnuts, almonds, and baby spinach. I could eat more vegetables, but it'd be ridiculous.
Sleeping habits: If sleep 7-8 hours a night. Sometimes the sleeping times can be sporadic. If I do not set an alarm I sleep 10+ hours and feel even worse. I find it very hard to wake up in the mornings. I sleep all night without interuption. I sleep near a road and at night a few cars or trucks go past every now and then. I have tried sleeping cooler, with the curtains completely closed, completely open, half open, with a fan on, with ear plugs in. So far none of that seems to have done anything. Girlfriend says I sometimes snore lightly. Ex girlfriend said I snored a lot, but I was 108kg back then.
Diet: I eat ketogenic or low carb. In the last couple of months I've had trouble sticking to it, but I eat nutritional food, but sometimes I end up eating junk as well and put on weight. I have tracked my nutrition on CRON-O-Meter. The only deficiency that I noticed was potassium, so I have been diligent in the last two weeks to get potassium in case I am deficient in that. My diet doesn't seem to be it, but maybe the extra carbohydrates have made me worse. I have gone back to strict keto again recently in case that is the problem.
Nootropic history: I have experimented with nootropics over the years. I take nothing now and haven't taken anything for a couple of months. I have tried piracetam, noopept, pramiracetam, oxiracetam, bacopa, lion's mane, pyritinol, sulbutiamine, picamilon, L-theanine, choline bitartrate. I took 10-20mg of noopept once or twice a day never for more than 3-4 weeks - a few times 30mg. I took 60mg of noopept 3-4 times and found my short term memory went to hell. I'm worried it might be the noopept that has ruined my brain.
Rec drugs habits: I don't really ever drink alcohol anymore (3 drinks in the past year, not on the same day) but in the past from age 18-22 I would sometimes get quite drunk, and I don't do any recreational drugs; I have however smoked marijuana twice in my life which I hated but that was a long time ago. I sometimes take a caffeine pill (1 time a week max) if I am in a real bind. I have tried not resorting to caffeine lately as my brain fog as gotten worse but I have drunk red bulls and taken caffeine a few in the last week because I'm desperate not to fail my classes/tests.
I was very depressed for a few years 18-22ish which was completely gone by last year. Im not depressed now. I am only upset that I cant do well and enjoy my life. I get up everyday and push through and try to be positive when my mind is a sluggish cloud of dead haziness. When I wake up in the mornings, I sometimes feel a bit down.
My current relationship stresses me out a fair bit. I am going to try meditation and maybe yoga. I might eliminate dairy. I will also go to the doctor soon because I think that's the best option.

Does anyone have any info or advice on what I can do?

Plaise Halp

Edited by Esoparagon, 20 August 2013 - 08:50 AM.

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#2 Psionic

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 12:09 PM

I would point to that previous stressfull/depressed period you got:

What to look for in you: People with adrenal fatigue tend to wake up tired (low cortisol) and not wanting to eat breakfast. Most people don’t have enough fuel in their livers/muscle for gluconeogenesis to sustain the day’s needs. In this scenario if you don’t eat you are basically stressing your adrenal gland further to sustain sympathetic tone to make that energy your liver does not have. You are demonstrating poor post workout recovery. You get sick more often and your recovery from illness is slower. Usually you have bloating and signs of a leaky gut and poor immune function. Your nails will be brittle and your temps might fluctuate. Your vitamin D level falls for no reason. You will also have a lower BP and tend to feel cold most of the time. Heart palpitations and chest pain are possible as well. Women will have more premenstrual symptoms and will notice more food intolerance over time. Sometimes a contributor is emotional stress in the history. Divorce, cheating, spousal death/disability are huge drivers of this syndrome. Hypoglycemia is very common especially with activity. In women, I look for (OAT) ovarian, adrenal and thyroid syndrome that have symptoms such as PMS, low body temperature, endometriosis, PCOS, cystic breast, menstrual irregularities, fibroids suggestive of ovarian dysfunction and Estrogen Dominance; dry skin, weight gain, fatigue, low energy, blunted response to thyroid medications suggestive of secondary hypothyroidism; salt craving, frequent infection, hypoglycemia, insomnia, anxiety and adrenaline rushes suggestive of sympathetic overtone common in late stage Adrenal Exhaustion.


http://www.jackkruse...have-in-common/
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#3 geostriata

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 11:51 PM

From what I can tell, "adrenal fatigue" is not an accepted medical condition, so I'm a bit skeptical of sites claiming otherwise. See: http://www.mayoclini...fatigue/AN01583

Of course, I really know next to nothing about medical conditions, so I could be wrong.
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#4 Esoparagon

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 02:38 AM

I would point to that previous stressfull/depressed period you got:

What to look for in you: People with adrenal fatigue tend to wake up tired (low cortisol) and not wanting to eat breakfast. Most people don’t have enough fuel in their livers/muscle for gluconeogenesis to sustain the day’s needs. In this scenario if you don’t eat you are basically stressing your adrenal gland further to sustain sympathetic tone to make that energy your liver does not have. You are demonstrating poor post workout recovery. You get sick more often and your recovery from illness is slower. Usually you have bloating and signs of a leaky gut and poor immune function. Your nails will be brittle and your temps might fluctuate. Your vitamin D level falls for no reason. You will also have a lower BP and tend to feel cold most of the time. Heart palpitations and chest pain are possible as well. Women will have more premenstrual symptoms and will notice more food intolerance over time. Sometimes a contributor is emotional stress in the history. Divorce, cheating, spousal death/disability are huge drivers of this syndrome. Hypoglycemia is very common especially with activity. In women, I look for (OAT) ovarian, adrenal and thyroid syndrome that have symptoms such as PMS, low body temperature, endometriosis, PCOS, cystic breast, menstrual irregularities, fibroids suggestive of ovarian dysfunction and Estrogen Dominance; dry skin, weight gain, fatigue, low energy, blunted response to thyroid medications suggestive of secondary hypothyroidism; salt craving, frequent infection, hypoglycemia, insomnia, anxiety and adrenaline rushes suggestive of sympathetic overtone common in late stage Adrenal Exhaustion.


http://www.jackkruse...have-in-common/


Wow. OK. I'm never hungry in the morning. I get massive bloating even if I haven't eaten, and I get a sore stomach often. The other day I was in three layers of clothes, my thin friend had a tshirt on and I was the one who was cold. A couple of times now as I was falling asleep or near bed time I started feeling really weird and freaking out. My heart was racing and the first time I was really worried. The second time I calmed myself down. My libido has also dropped.

Thank you so much. I will read the article. Maybe this is what I have.

Edited by Esoparagon, 21 August 2013 - 02:41 AM.

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#5 Godof Smallthings

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:01 AM

Start meditating daily, 10 minutes the first few weeks (go with your intuition if you want to increase the sitting times after that).

It's the best present you can give yourself. I really wish I had started as early as 23. Jon Kabat-Zinn's talk at Google University (on YouTube) is a good starting point.

Apart from that, I find my attention level is increased by taking fish oil, ginkgo biloba and drinking a large cup of Japanese green tea. It's fine on its own, but I combine it with 800 mg piracetam for an extra boost.

Have you got a family history of depression or bipolar?

Daily 45 minute brisk walks (pref. calm neighbourhood like a forest, mountain or if that's not possible, then a park or sleepy residential area with greenery) will kickstart your hippocampus, which will have positive effects on both mood and memory formation, and is also a good way of losing weight.

Also, perhaps, get thyroid values taken, and look into Addison's syndrome.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 21 August 2013 - 05:06 AM.

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#6 Esoparagon

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 01:13 AM

It's so bad today I almost feel like crying as I'm doing my chemistry work lol. It's one hard slog just to stay on task and think.
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#7 Esoparagon

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 04:59 AM

I should have mentioned that my kidneys work at half capacity because of kidney reflux when I was a baby. Could that have anything to do with it?
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#8 Godof Smallthings

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 10:09 AM

I think seeing a doctor and explaining your situation in the same detail you have here would be a good idea.
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#9 Pound

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:42 PM

Dude you probably have hypothyrodism. I have this intense brain fog my whole life. Very slow, extremely forgetful, losing my mind. I feel like a dream, a ghost on a unknown planet. I feel like 100 year old man at 19. I forget my keys, turning off the car, normal everyday things. I can no longer study, and uni is falling apart. I am also doing uni in australia.

I have just found out that I have low testosterone and low thyrpid function. I find myself cold and im severely constipated. You HAVE to get blood tests to see what your hormones are at. There is seriously something wrong with your endocrinology if you are eating well, exercising regularly. I used to have depression, and like you I no longer have it. I realised it was just a manifestation of endocrine issues. Make sure you can do as much research as you can on the topic, and if you need help ask me. I am probably one week away from getting over this brain fog, and if it goes like it should with treatment, I'll show you how to do the same thing.
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#10 Pound

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 04:06 AM

It could also be due to adrenal issues. If you are under chronic stress or have been under chronic stress in the past, your adrenal's could have gotten a complete bashing.
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#11 Esoparagon

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:42 AM

Dude you probably have hypothyrodism. I have this intense brain fog my whole life. Very slow, extremely forgetful, losing my mind. I feel like a dream, a ghost on a unknown planet. I feel like 100 year old man at 19. I forget my keys, turning off the car, normal everyday things. I can no longer study, and uni is falling apart. I am also doing uni in australia.

I have just found out that I have low testosterone and low thyrpid function. I find myself cold and im severely constipated. You HAVE to get blood tests to see what your hormones are at. There is seriously something wrong with your endocrinology if you are eating well, exercising regularly. I used to have depression, and like you I no longer have it. I realised it was just a manifestation of endocrine issues. Make sure you can do as much research as you can on the topic, and if you need help ask me. I am probably one week away from getting over this brain fog, and if it goes like it should with treatment, I'll show you how to do the same thing.


Thank you very much for your reply. I will definitely try to remember to ring the doctor on monday for an appointment. Uni is going to hell. I study and study and I keep realizing I'm distracted and that nothing is sinking in. I have to read things several times to even get the gist.

Could it be omega-6 deficiency? I think I have only been getting around 50% of the recommended amoun tof omega-6 since I ruthlessly trie dto lower it and I think I have overshot the mark a bit. In Cron-o-meter, it's usually below 50%. Over a long time, that may be the problem. Anyway, I'll add more omega-6 back in to my diet.

Blood test it is! No messing around with self diagnosis. ^_^

Edited by Esoparagon, 25 August 2013 - 08:43 AM.

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#12 Pound

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:53 AM

Nothing to do with omegas. Being deficient in omega will not do this to you. You have to educate yourself on your own issue. Doctor's will probably say your normal if you are within the lab ranges. Learn how the thyroid feedback system works.

Go on this site. It will tell you EVERYTHING about the thyroid. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/
Soak up every part of this website.

Go on this website and read about hypogonadism and possible testosterone replacement therapy. Learn about the HPTA axis and how the androgen system works. Read the stickies. << Make sure you do this. I have learning about the my problems (which are the same as yours) and have been doing so for 6 months. I am still learning every day.

Learn about antioxidants n acetyl cysteine and alpha lipioc acid.

Insure you know what adrenal insufficiency is, and the role cortisol and DHEA have on immune function, your circadian cycle, fatigue and energy. Learn how the feeback system for the adrenal system works.

I wish you knew about this 5-10 years ago, because you'll definantly have an/multiple endocrine issues. Or you may have candida or lyme disease. Taking supplement here probably won't do much for you short term.

Insure you get these tests done:

Prolactin, Total testosterone, free testosterone, SHBG, estradiol (E2), TSH, fT4, fT3, rT3, thyrpid antibodies, complete blood count, ferritin, 4 x cortisol salive test, DHEA-S, TRH

Insure you know what each of these test imply and how they work together and they effect each other. There are probably other tests that I have forgotten at this time.

This is your health. And sadly, many people like us don't get treated well in modern medicine as practitioners are taught to treat disease and cancers, but not illnesses like this. A holistic GP is much better then a normal GP for these kind of things.

Post if you have more questions.
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#13 Pound

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:55 AM

For the testosterone website. http://tnation.t-nat...&s=forumsNavTop

Read all the stickies.
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#14 BLimitless

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:31 AM

I should have mentioned that my kidneys work at half capacity because of kidney reflux when I was a baby. Could that have anything to do with it?



Yes.


You have an emotional blockage which manifests itself as a physical blockage/brain fog.


Your body is telling you to slow down and stop for a second and think about what you really want, what you really need.

Brain fog comes and goes, I have observed that it is actually an internal condition. This is why you will go on the internet and find 1000000 different causes for it.
Brain fog = neural chaos/neural noise. Imagine you want a smooth flowing stream in your mind. Brain fog is the chaotic slurry foam at the top of the rushing river.


The river can speed up or slow down. As you see, when a river is flowing gently, it has little to no chaotic flow/slurry foam. But when it is coursing, we get white water, a complete torrent of foam and not much direction or use.


So what happened? Somewhere inside of you, there is this river raging and rushing to get somewhere in a hurry, to the point you will disregard everything else (brain fog) to get there. When you let go of this river of insanity, the goal of getting there, this fog will disappear like a mirage.

I recommend a course of meditation and yoga. Do exercises that will flood your body with air. Do Holotropic Breathing (controlled hyperventilation), look it up. All you do is breathe in and out deep, relaxed, gentle, yet fast. You will notice that the headrush obliterates the fog, if only for a brief few minutes.



You need to open up your lower "Dan Tien", look it up. Almost definitely you have anterior pelvic tilt and tight hip flexors. This means that your breathing is obstructed. When you breathe to say 80% lung capacity, your breath is not actually working properly and you will fog up. Open up the entire airway, stop squishing your stomach/bladder area. When air flows into this area properly, every breath is like a refreshing taste of water. The water rushes into the crevices of your brain, the dry cracked ground, and like water seeps into Earth and stirs it back to life, so too will the breath seep into the dry crusty parts of your brain/body and refresh it.

Look into how the Taoists understand the kidney and its relation to emotions. If you explore this, you will very easily find the solution to your problems if you maintain an open and humble mind.

Brain fog = oxygen deprivation to cells. It's VERY complex because it's not merely breathing. It is the entire oxygen transport chain, which depends on myriad vitamins and factors and so on, to *finally* shuttle the oxygen there and nourish the cells.


Try Chlorella, maybe it shall help. Chlorophyll => oxygenation of cells.





Stop eating chocolate. Stop eating dairy. Go on a fast for a few days. Something you are eating, it is NOT helping. It might be totally benign normally, it doesn't have to be an allergen that you think of! It could even be friggin spinach or broccoli!

Let me say it mathematically. Let X = the momentum towards increasing brain fog. Then Y is its opposite. You need to reinforce Y and inhibit X, whatever these things are. Now write down all the things you think fit into X, all the things you fit into Y. If not on paper then just open up notepad and write a quick post to yourself. You deserve it. You deserve to heal. You deserve to feel good. You deserve peace. Now go act, so you get what you deserve, you feel me?


I know this problem. It makes you kick and scream and curse at the walls. Stay hopeful! This will pass. When it does, it's like surfacing out of the water, where you had been drowning the whole time. Then you realise you were standing up in head-height water.


All the best my friend of sorrow, look into the spiritual side of this and you shall eventually understand how you inflicted this all on yourself!

Edited by BLimitless, 25 August 2013 - 11:46 AM.

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#15 Esoparagon

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:50 AM

I went to the doctors and got my blood taken. He suspects it might be something mental, but wants to be sure. Today it lifted a little for a while and I was about 50% which was amazing and I was able to function in a way that I haven't in a while. I will definitely have a look into yoga and meditation. I have no idea really what happened today. I have slept completely through my alarms twice in a row now. It was quite stressing and defeating to wake up at 12:30pm and miss my tutorial. Funnily, I've been taking alpha lipoic acid for weight loss purposes... maybe that helped. Thank you all for your comments and help. I know one more internet dude with problems is probably annoying. I never thought I'd be someone with this kind of problem.
I indeed believe that chocolate is the devil. It is my only source of craving and the only thing I binge on. If it were not for chocolate, I would be ripped. All my excess weight is chocolate. I never crave any other foods. Not even other types of sweets, I'm indifferent to them all, and I never crave any bread/pasta type foods, they taste like cardboard to me. I never even ever 'feel' like a certain food when I'm hungry.

I have 'issues' but I wouldn't have thought that they could manifest in this kind of way.
.

Edited by Esoparagon, 29 August 2013 - 11:54 AM.

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#16 KieranA001

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:19 AM

I went to the doctors and got my blood taken. He suspects it might be something mental, but wants to be sure. Today it lifted a little for a while and I was about 50% which was amazing and I was able to function in a way that I haven't in a while. I will definitely have a look into yoga and meditation. I have no idea really what happened today. I have slept completely through my alarms twice in a row now. It was quite stressing and defeating to wake up at 12:30pm and miss my tutorial. Funnily, I've been taking alpha lipoic acid for weight loss purposes... maybe that helped. Thank you all for your comments and help. I know one more internet dude with problems is probably annoying. I never thought I'd be someone with this kind of problem.
I indeed believe that chocolate is the devil. It is my only source of craving and the only thing I binge on. If it were not for chocolate, I would be ripped. All my excess weight is chocolate. I never crave any other foods. Not even other types of sweets, I'm indifferent to them all, and I never crave any bread/pasta type foods, they taste like cardboard to me. I never even ever 'feel' like a certain food when I'm hungry.

I have 'issues' but I wouldn't have thought that they could manifest in this kind of way.
.


When you said about you binge on chocolate, then fibromyalgia came to mind. I think it could be to do with that:

http://chronicfatigu...brosymptoms.htm
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#17 ajcarpy2005

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:30 AM

@Esoparagon

I highly recommend CoQ10 as a treatment protocol for your constant fatigue. It sure has helped me. Additionally, you should try PQQ & Shilajit.

Make sure you are drinking enough water. I'd also try drinking salt water in the morning. (preferably pink himalayan)

Also, increase your exercise.
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#18 celebes

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:58 AM

Sounds like hypothyroid to me too. Beware though, thyroid tests frequently give false negatives. If you come back euthyroid and no other cause is found, I'd suggest getting hold of some T3 and trialing a small dose for a week or two. Better than needlessly suffering perhaps indefinitely.
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#19 Olon

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:12 PM

A theory about that phenomenon (that has been mentioned by others, too): Direct AMPA receptor potentiation leads to a reduction of CAMKII activity (the most important AMPA receptor potentiating signalling protein and essential for memory formation). Somehow this new functioning of brain cells is preserved even after cessation of the nootropic. It would be interesting to see whether indirect AMPA receptor potentiators (CAMKII activators) like nobiletin or tianeptine are able to reverse this.
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#20 Esoparagon

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 02:27 AM

I got my report back today. Everything is normal on this test. Euthyroid. Thyroid-stimulating hormone or TSH was 3.15 mIU/L. I get roughly 1.8g a day and rarely reach the 3.5g unless I try. Blood sugar was 4.3mM even on my low carb diet. Cholesterol 4.2mM but no idea about HDL and LDL. (I eat a lot of cholesterol so this confirmed to me it's not a problem) My uric acid was 0.53 millimolar so 0.03mM above 50mM but the doctor was not concerned and asked if I exercise. Since I probably get a bit more protein (about 120g a day) and do HIIT and BBS lifting, it isn't concerning me either. Urea 8.5mM. Haemogloblin 167 g/L. I'm going to a psychologist once a month to see if there is anything they can do. I really don't think it's psychological and I don't think I'm depressed but who knows. In any case, the last three days I haven't felt as horrible, but not 100%. I've felt about 50% which makes life liveable. I can function at 50% but not at the 10% I had been feeling. It may be the omega-6 I've added to my diet, and my attempts to stress less. Thank you all for your help. :)

Edited by Esoparagon, 02 September 2013 - 02:28 AM.

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#21 renfr

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 05:30 AM

3.15 for a TSH is very high, this was the value when my brain was dead and so was my body.
A healthy TSH value shouldn't exceed 1.5, some people will feel terribly crappy with a TSH of 3 and I did!
I had the same "extremely dead tired" thing.

I would point out first at your ketogenic diet, a diet high in fat slows down your thyroid hormone synthesis, I also did a low carb though not ketogenic diet for a while and felt crappy for months because my body lacked carbs, if you want to keep up with the ketogenic diet maybe you should think about doing carb refeeds once a week, never tried that but to me the ketogenic diet was the cause of my deadly brain fog.

Also it is obvious from your test that you have hypothyroidism, your hypothyroidism is likely caused partly by your ketogenic diet.
But in case I would suggest you start taking iodine which you probably have a huge deficiency like many others, start with 150mcg a day (only from potassium iodide OR norwegian sea kelp such as that of NOW foods, beware with BS kelp from pacific) and don't forget drinking water and put some salt in your food, the first days might be rough since your body wasn't adapted to get so much iodine.
If your doctor is kind then ask him for a full thyroid panel : T4, T3 and thyroid antibodies (Tgab, TPOab, TRAb)

Get some selenium (preferably se methyl l selenocysteine) and take it 2-3 times a week at most (never exceed 200mcg each time) and take it at night before sleeping.

Eat more protein to give you more energy and give you more tyrosine which is vital for thyroid hormone synthesis.
A high protein diet will give you more energy and help you feel great, if you don't get enough through diet, think about a protein shake such as whey protein isolate.

Don't use omega 6, you don't need these, what you need is omega 3 FA, you already get tons of omega 6 through the diet and an unbalanced omega6/3 ratio causes inflammation, not what you want with an underworking thyroid.

Just a thing also, HIIT reduces T3 overtime and causes rT3 (inactive form of the thyroid hormone) to be elevated so don't overdo it, once a week is fine like you do.

Other things that will help : zinc 25mg to boost the mind, lower excess cortisol, (cortisol and hypothyroidism usually go hand in hand), boost your T, take it a night just 2 hours after dinner but NEVER on empty stomach.
A B vitamins complex may help to provide enough NADH for your metabolism.
Stop drinking coffee if that's the case since it puts a strain on adrenals and can exacerbate hypothyroidic tiredness.

Good luck, I went through that and I feel for you.

Edited by renfr, 02 September 2013 - 05:42 AM.

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#22 celebes

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 05:41 AM

Like renfr said: 3.15 isn't normal, it's frank hypothyroidism. It's outside the reference range, so I don't understand why you would say it was?

Go very easy on the iodine. Even small amounts can suppress thyroid function in some people so take it slow.

Everything else he advises is correct. If doing that doesn't change things start T3/T4.
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#23 renfr

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 05:58 AM

Like renfr said: 3.15 isn't normal, it's frank hypothyroidism. It's outside the reference range, so I don't understand why you would say it was?

Go very easy on the iodine. Even small amounts can suppress thyroid function in some people so take it slow.

Everything else he advises is correct. If doing that doesn't change things start T3/T4.

Yes, that's why I think he should get tested first and see if he has a goiter, hashimoto's or any other disease that screws up the thyroid.
People with goiters need to be extremely careful with iodine intake, for hashimoto selenium combined with iodine makes iodine intake much safer.

Also another thing I would recommend is ashwagandha to enhance T4 to T3 conversion.

I would take tetraiodothyronine and triiodothyronine as a last resort if your thyroid is really screwed up but a TSH of 3 makes me think that this is recoverable, if it was really screwed up you'd have abnormally huge readings (over 40 for example).

Edited by renfr, 02 September 2013 - 05:58 AM.

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#24 Esoparagon

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 12:53 PM

I get roughly 1.8g a day and rarely reach the 3.5g unless I try.


I was meant to mention potassium being normal here. I thought I deleted this bit.

Like renfr said: 3.15 isn't normal, it's frank hypothyroidism. It's outside the reference range, so I don't understand why you would say it was?

Go very easy on the iodine. Even small amounts can suppress thyroid function in some people so take it slow.

Everything else he advises is correct. If doing that doesn't change things start T3/T4.


The reference range on the report is 0.30-4.20 mIU/L, and it says underneath "consistent with euthyroidism". I'm glad I posted it here. Maybe there's some difference in tests. I'm in Australia.

3.15 for a TSH is very high, this was the value when my brain was dead and so was my body.
A healthy TSH value shouldn't exceed 1.5, some people will feel terribly crappy with a TSH of 3 and I did!
I had the same "extremely dead tired" thing.

I would point out first at your ketogenic diet, a diet high in fat slows down your thyroid hormone synthesis, I also did a low carb though not ketogenic diet for a while and felt crappy for months because my body lacked carbs, if you want to keep up with the ketogenic diet maybe you should think about doing carb refeeds once a week, never tried that but to me the ketogenic diet was the cause of my deadly brain fog.

Also it is obvious from your test that you have hypothyroidism, your hypothyroidism is likely caused partly by your ketogenic diet.
But in case I would suggest you start taking iodine which you probably have a huge deficiency like many others, start with 150mcg a day (only from potassium iodide OR norwegian sea kelp such as that of NOW foods, beware with BS kelp from pacific) and don't forget drinking water and put some salt in your food, the first days might be rough since your body wasn't adapted to get so much iodine.
If your doctor is kind then ask him for a full thyroid panel : T4, T3 and thyroid antibodies (Tgab, TPOab, TRAb)

Get some selenium (preferably se methyl l selenocysteine) and take it 2-3 times a week at most (never exceed 200mcg each time) and take it at night before sleeping.

Eat more protein to give you more energy and give you more tyrosine which is vital for thyroid hormone synthesis.
A high protein diet will give you more energy and help you feel great, if you don't get enough through diet, think about a protein shake such as whey protein isolate.

Don't use omega 6, you don't need these, what you need is omega 3 FA, you already get tons of omega 6 through the diet and an unbalanced omega6/3 ratio causes inflammation, not what you want with an underworking thyroid.

Just a thing also, HIIT reduces T3 overtime and causes rT3 (inactive form of the thyroid hormone) to be elevated so don't overdo it, once a week is fine like you do.

Other things that will help : zinc 25mg to boost the mind, lower excess cortisol, (cortisol and hypothyroidism usually go hand in hand), boost your T, take it a night just 2 hours after dinner but NEVER on empty stomach.
A B vitamins complex may help to provide enough NADH for your metabolism.
Stop drinking coffee if that's the case since it puts a strain on adrenals and can exacerbate hypothyroidic tiredness.

Good luck, I went through that and I feel for you.


Do you mean hyperthyroid if my TSH is too high?
My ketogenic diet has never been a problem in the past and only ever made me feel calm and good. I don't know of any need for carbohydrates in diet but I am open to new ideas. I was eating around 100g per day just before the brain fog got worse so I cut back down to sub 50g. I'm adverse to eating carbohydrates because I am incredibly upset with my weight and want to get it back down to before my chocolate binging. I haven't heard anything about ketogenic diets affecting the thyroid before :| In terms of protein, I'm getting plenty at 120g a day but on keto I avoid going over that to stay in ketosis. In terms of omega-6, as far as I understand omega-6 is still an essential fat and without it you cannot live, and I have gone through my logs and seen that I was only getting about 10g a day when RDI is more like 20g. I get omega-3 because I always make sure to. I had been avoiding omega-6, but you do need a certain amount in your diet. I have started eating iodized sea salt on my food but I have no idea how much that contributes.


Like renfr said: 3.15 isn't normal, it's frank hypothyroidism. It's outside the reference range, so I don't understand why you would say it was?

Go very easy on the iodine. Even small amounts can suppress thyroid function in some people so take it slow.

Everything else he advises is correct. If doing that doesn't change things start T3/T4.

Yes, that's why I think he should get tested first and see if he has a goiter, hashimoto's or any other disease that screws up the thyroid.
People with goiters need to be extremely careful with iodine intake, for hashimoto selenium combined with iodine makes iodine intake much safer.

Also another thing I would recommend is ashwagandha to enhance T4 to T3 conversion.

I would take tetraiodothyronine and triiodothyronine as a last resort if your thyroid is really screwed up but a TSH of 3 makes me think that this is recoverable, if it was really screwed up you'd have abnormally huge readings (over 40 for example).


My doctor seems to think I'm perfectly biologically healthy now and has simply referred me to a psychologist. I guess I just have a case of the crazies. Maybe it could be a manifestation of my sexual frustration. Too much info :P - I will continue to consider that the doctor missed my real problem.
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#25 Godof Smallthings

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 01:14 PM

For the forgetfulness part, this method could be helpful (in some situations):

1. When you have forgotten something, spend one concentrated minute just thinking about the object you have forgotten, and as many details related to it as possible.
2. After this minute, completely let go of thinking about the object you have forgotten. Actively engage in something else.
3. The answer will pop up of its own accord. It may come very quickly, or it may take some time, but it will happen.

This is a method that is aimed at addressing your unconscious mind to work with the solution.

But the obvious ingredient missing when you forget things like this is mindfulness - the paying of attention to your experience in the present moment. When you forget where an object is located it is usually because your mind was otherwise occupied when you put it down. For that reason, the location of the object is not easily accessible by the usual recall mechanism.

The solution for this is to actively engage in mindfulness training, and bring it into your everyday life as much as you possibly can.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 02 September 2013 - 01:15 PM.

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#26 celebes

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 01:40 PM

TSH stimulates thyroid hormone release. In short, high TSH means low thyroid and high thyroid means low TSH. 5 mIU/L used to be the standard (and is still up to 10 in the UK). When research found that that is absurdly high and misses many seriously hypothyroid people, the upper limit was reduced to 3 mIU in the US and 2.5 mIU in much of Europe. Apparently Australia is doing its own thing.

Carbs stimulate conversion of inactive T4 to active T3. A ketogenic diet almost by definition steers you toward hypothyroidism.

The studies that 20g Omega-6 RDI was based on were deeply flawed. The true requirement is closer to 2g than 20. Ideally we want fairly low amounts of omega-3 in our diet, and an even lower level of omega-6. You (and me and everyone) already get too much 6 from our diets so adding even more is nuts.

Omega-6 is known to suppress thyroid function. You were treading water with your thyroid before and adding it pushed you over the edge.

None of this is controversial. Look them up. No, let me do it for you. Here are the first things that came up in a 2 sec search:

http://tpauk.com/art...t-in-the-world/

http://anthonycolpo....r-your-thyroid/

http://wholehealthso...suppresses.html

I know these things because a) I'm a doctor and b) I was misdiagnosed euthyroid despite being massively symptomatic, much like the other person here trying to help you.

I'll chalk up everything you wrote being dead wrong to your condition. I know how hard it can be to think in that state.

Edited by celebes, 02 September 2013 - 01:51 PM.

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#27 renfr

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 06:36 PM


I get roughly 1.8g a day and rarely reach the 3.5g unless I try.


I was meant to mention potassium being normal here. I thought I deleted this bit.

Like renfr said: 3.15 isn't normal, it's frank hypothyroidism. It's outside the reference range, so I don't understand why you would say it was?

Go very easy on the iodine. Even small amounts can suppress thyroid function in some people so take it slow.

Everything else he advises is correct. If doing that doesn't change things start T3/T4.


The reference range on the report is 0.30-4.20 mIU/L, and it says underneath "consistent with euthyroidism". I'm glad I posted it here. Maybe there's some difference in tests. I'm in Australia.

3.15 for a TSH is very high, this was the value when my brain was dead and so was my body.
A healthy TSH value shouldn't exceed 1.5, some people will feel terribly crappy with a TSH of 3 and I did!
I had the same "extremely dead tired" thing.

I would point out first at your ketogenic diet, a diet high in fat slows down your thyroid hormone synthesis, I also did a low carb though not ketogenic diet for a while and felt crappy for months because my body lacked carbs, if you want to keep up with the ketogenic diet maybe you should think about doing carb refeeds once a week, never tried that but to me the ketogenic diet was the cause of my deadly brain fog.

Also it is obvious from your test that you have hypothyroidism, your hypothyroidism is likely caused partly by your ketogenic diet.
But in case I would suggest you start taking iodine which you probably have a huge deficiency like many others, start with 150mcg a day (only from potassium iodide OR norwegian sea kelp such as that of NOW foods, beware with BS kelp from pacific) and don't forget drinking water and put some salt in your food, the first days might be rough since your body wasn't adapted to get so much iodine.
If your doctor is kind then ask him for a full thyroid panel : T4, T3 and thyroid antibodies (Tgab, TPOab, TRAb)

Get some selenium (preferably se methyl l selenocysteine) and take it 2-3 times a week at most (never exceed 200mcg each time) and take it at night before sleeping.

Eat more protein to give you more energy and give you more tyrosine which is vital for thyroid hormone synthesis.
A high protein diet will give you more energy and help you feel great, if you don't get enough through diet, think about a protein shake such as whey protein isolate.

Don't use omega 6, you don't need these, what you need is omega 3 FA, you already get tons of omega 6 through the diet and an unbalanced omega6/3 ratio causes inflammation, not what you want with an underworking thyroid.

Just a thing also, HIIT reduces T3 overtime and causes rT3 (inactive form of the thyroid hormone) to be elevated so don't overdo it, once a week is fine like you do.

Other things that will help : zinc 25mg to boost the mind, lower excess cortisol, (cortisol and hypothyroidism usually go hand in hand), boost your T, take it a night just 2 hours after dinner but NEVER on empty stomach.
A B vitamins complex may help to provide enough NADH for your metabolism.
Stop drinking coffee if that's the case since it puts a strain on adrenals and can exacerbate hypothyroidic tiredness.

Good luck, I went through that and I feel for you.


Do you mean hyperthyroid if my TSH is too high?
My ketogenic diet has never been a problem in the past and only ever made me feel calm and good. I don't know of any need for carbohydrates in diet but I am open to new ideas. I was eating around 100g per day just before the brain fog got worse so I cut back down to sub 50g. I'm adverse to eating carbohydrates because I am incredibly upset with my weight and want to get it back down to before my chocolate binging. I haven't heard anything about ketogenic diets affecting the thyroid before :| In terms of protein, I'm getting plenty at 120g a day but on keto I avoid going over that to stay in ketosis. In terms of omega-6, as far as I understand omega-6 is still an essential fat and without it you cannot live, and I have gone through my logs and seen that I was only getting about 10g a day when RDI is more like 20g. I get omega-3 because I always make sure to. I had been avoiding omega-6, but you do need a certain amount in your diet. I have started eating iodized sea salt on my food but I have no idea how much that contributes.



Like renfr said: 3.15 isn't normal, it's frank hypothyroidism. It's outside the reference range, so I don't understand why you would say it was?

Go very easy on the iodine. Even small amounts can suppress thyroid function in some people so take it slow.

Everything else he advises is correct. If doing that doesn't change things start T3/T4.

Yes, that's why I think he should get tested first and see if he has a goiter, hashimoto's or any other disease that screws up the thyroid.
People with goiters need to be extremely careful with iodine intake, for hashimoto selenium combined with iodine makes iodine intake much safer.

Also another thing I would recommend is ashwagandha to enhance T4 to T3 conversion.

I would take tetraiodothyronine and triiodothyronine as a last resort if your thyroid is really screwed up but a TSH of 3 makes me think that this is recoverable, if it was really screwed up you'd have abnormally huge readings (over 40 for example).


My doctor seems to think I'm perfectly biologically healthy now and has simply referred me to a psychologist. I guess I just have a case of the crazies. Maybe it could be a manifestation of my sexual frustration. Too much info :P - I will continue to consider that the doctor missed my real problem.


No, the TSH is what makes your thyroid gland grow, it will grow if there isn't enough thyroid hormones circulating in the body, so a high TSH means roughly hypothyroidism.
The problem is that once you start eating carbs again you will gain weight as the body will build as much reserves as possible but this weight gain is temporary if you keep eating carbs on the long term.
I also have that weight problem despite my hypothyroidism seemingly absent, I also was doing a low carb diet and couldn't handle it due to the massive brain fog it caused me while not causing any weight loss.
I started a moderate carb diet combined with lots of protein, I gained some pounds after starting eating decent amount of carbs again and then it started going down.
Some people might be totally OK with a ketogenic or low carb diet but if weeks after you still have the brain fog then it just isn't for you. If the brain doesn't get enough nutrients (which is shown by brain fog) it will cause brain shrinkage on long term.
Maybe slowly eating carbs back again would limit the weight gain but don't worry once you get to a carb plateau you won't gain more.
Just ban refined carbs, processed carbs and eat lots of carbs from fruit, raw organic honey, grains such as rice, beans, lentils, vegetables as well.

The RDI is utter BS, you don't need 20g omega 6, been months I take 3-5g of omega 6 a day and I still live :)
Also look at the omega 6 intake in asian people, it's very very low.
If you have a western type diet then you get enough omega 6 from meat, eggs, vegetable oils, butter and so on.
You need to have a omega6/3 ratio as close as 1:1, over 5:1 is bad for you.
Omega 6 are sure vital but not in huge quantities, the fact is that omega 6 is neutral when the ratio is low and it is pro inflammatory when the ratio is high.
Also eat as less nuts as possible, these contain immense amounts of omega 6.
Since you use the cronometer you can easily calculate your ratio.

As for iodized sea salt, forget about it, and I bet it's not sea salt but mere refined table salt which isn't very good for health.
Iodized salt is worthless because iodine will be flushed out by the chloride in salt (salt is sodium chloride) so you likely get almost no iodine.
I suggest you buy KI solution or caps or buy kelp seaweed to get generous amounts of iodine, you're never going to reverse hypothyroidism with iodized salt unless you overdose on it.
Also remember that the 150mcg RDI is the strict minimum for you to not develop a goiter, some people will be fine on 150mcg only but most people will need more than that to erase hypothyroidism.
A lot of people are hypothyroid but are undiagnosed because the TSH thresold is too high and I see a lot of people in my country with hypothyroidism, it's easy to see when you look at their weight, their neck, their skin, really a lot of people are highly deficient in iodine.

I would do the following :
1. ask for a full thyroid panel : t3, t4, thyroid antibodies
2. if you don't have antibodies but T3, T4 are low then you can start supplementing iodine
3. if you have antibodies you can start selenium to reduce them or/and start with T3/T4 caps if your doctor prescribe them to you
4. if everything is normal, check your hormones (cortisol, SBHG, testosterone, estradiol, DHT)
Check copper, ceruloplasmin as well.
5. Even if it's not normal, check them anyway!

This only if your doctor isn't a jerk, sadly mine is and I had to solve that problem myself!

Also, another thing, avoid all goitrogenic foods (and there are many) :
This : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goitrogen

PM me if you want, I went through almost exactly the same problem and I am so much better now, the only issue I have now is my weight.

My doctor seems to think I'm perfectly biologically healthy now and has simply referred me to a psychologist. I guess I just have a case of the crazies. Maybe it could be a manifestation of my sexual frustration. Too much info :P - I will continue to consider that the doctor missed my real problem.


Yep, typical ignorant doctors (it's hard to find the good ones...), my replacement doctor went totally crazy when I asked her a T3 test, I managed to get a T4 test but no T3 sadly, I would pay to get tested for T3 but oh wait... in my country you must get a prescription, this sucks so much.
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#28 Esoparagon

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:43 AM

TSH stimulates thyroid hormone release. In short, high TSH means low thyroid and high thyroid means low TSH. 5 mIU/L used to be the standard (and is still up to 10 in the UK). When research found that that is absurdly high and misses many seriously hypothyroid people, the upper limit was reduced to 3 mIU in the US and 2.5 mIU in much of Europe. Apparently Australia is doing its own thing.

Carbs stimulate conversion of inactive T4 to active T3. A ketogenic diet almost by definition steers you toward hypothyroidism.

The studies that 20g Omega-6 RDI was based on were deeply flawed. The true requirement is closer to 2g than 20. Ideally we want fairly low amounts of omega-3 in our diet, and an even lower level of omega-6. You (and me and everyone) already get too much 6 from our diets so adding even more is nuts.

Omega-6 is known to suppress thyroid function. You were treading water with your thyroid before and adding it pushed you over the edge.

None of this is controversial. Look them up. No, let me do it for you. Here are the first things that came up in a 2 sec search:

http://tpauk.com/art...t-in-the-world/

http://anthonycolpo....r-your-thyroid/

http://wholehealthso...suppresses.html

I know these things because a) I'm a doctor and b) I was misdiagnosed euthyroid despite being massively symptomatic, much like the other person here trying to help you.

I'll chalk up everything you wrote being dead wrong to your condition. I know how hard it can be to think in that state.


My being wrong is probably also due to my almost complete ignorance about the thyroid and hypothyroidism :) I have this brain fog too which makes it hard for me to engage in self educating myself about it, but now that I know my 3.15 mIU/L TSH is not normal in the US and Europe, I have a lot of reason to figure out whether it is my problem. Thank you very much for all your help! I really do appreciate it. For omega-6, I only added that after having the brain fog for a couple of months, and I was only taking the omega-6 recommendations at face value. If I truly only need 2g then I've been getting more than enough at 8g a day.

Today I went back to sleep like a fool; even though I did wake up to my 7am alarm and had a moment of pseudo-consciousness where I could have gotten up. Due to this, I feel horrible again today. I'm back to 20%.

So should I see a different doctor or go back and ask why 3.15 isn't hypothyroid?
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#29 Godof Smallthings

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 05:01 AM

Today I went back to sleep like a fool; even though I did wake up to my 7am alarm and had a moment of pseudo-consciousness where I could have gotten up. Due to this, I feel horrible again today. I'm back to 20%.


You might benefit to some extent from downloading a sleep app for your smartphone. You place the phone on the bed next to you, and it will detect your vibrations, thereby determining what sleep stage you are currently in. You set the 'absolutely latest' alarm time in the app, and then the app decides within a 45 min time window prior to this time, when the optimal time to wake you up is. I found it makes my mornings more pleasant. Many of these apps are free, like Motion X Sleep, which is the one I use.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 03 September 2013 - 05:02 AM.

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#30 lourdaud

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:51 AM

I had the same issues on ketogenic diets. TSH of 3 > is very likely to be causing these problems, carb up and you'll feel much better!
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