20 replies to this topic

[NanoDoom]

Hello,

Some years ago, I got on the whole transdermal magnesium bandwagon.
I smeared my legs and arms in with magnesium 'oil', which wasn't an oil at all, but magnesium chloride + water.

After 2 years or so, I came across some information that definitely made me realise that what I had been doing did absolutely nothing for me. Basically, none of the magnesium ever reached my bloodstream.

So I quit doing magnesium by application on the skin.

Now, years later, an acquaintance of mine kept insisting that Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate definitely does penetrates the skin and reaches the bloodstream.
All I could tell him was that I had been 'had' before with this transdermal magnesium nonsense, and I wasn't going to be fooled into it once again.
But I did remember that the stuff I covered my arms in back then was Magnesium Chloride - and not Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate.

Now I'm thinking maybe there is something to this after all.

Can anyone here confirm that the Hexahydrate form does penetrate skin (easily)?
I'd also like to hear from people who can debunk this. Either way, I want to know.

I do have a very sensitive stomach that cannot handle any magnesium supplements. Being able to do it transdermally would make life a bit easier for me. But I don't want to smear useless Mg all over my arms again, when its no good anyway. (all it ever did was make my skin itch and burn)

Thanks.

[niner]

Kind of sounds like bunk to me. Magnesium chloride crystallizes with six water molecules for each unit of MgCl2. These are called "waters of hydration", and it's typical for ionic salts to crystallize with some specific number of waters. The exact number depends on the nature of the other molecules involved. The problem is, when you dissolve MgCl2.6H2O in water, everything drifts apart, and you are left with magnesium ions, chloride ions, and water. The exact same thing you would have if you dissolved anhydrous MgCl2 in water. In reality, any crystalline MgCl2 is going to be the hexahydrate, unless it's been baked in an oven to drive off the water. Then it would be called anhydrous.

It's possible that the magnesium "oil" you used before was not very pure, and it was actually a contaminant that was causing the skin problems you had. When people are naming compounds, they often just drop the water part. Thus, you could buy a bag of magnesium chloride ice melter at the Home Depot, and it would really be the hexahydrate, but they would just call it "magnesium chloride". It would also have a lot of contaminants in it, so it's probably not a great source of high quality magnesium. It might be what some of these internet magnesium sites are using, though.

I don't really like the transdermal magnesium idea. The amount that actually gets in is kind of unpredictable. We evolved getting magnesium from our diet, not from soaking in concentrated solutions of it.

[NanoDoom]

Thank you, niner. I always learn much from your posts.


Basically, no form of Magnesium Chloride can actually be lipid soluble, correct?
So, the term Magnesium Oil is always bunk?

I have extremely limited knowledge about these matters. But I've always had the idea that skin generally likes lipids (oil) and takes it in fairly easily. Whereas the skin doesn't like to absorb water - at least not to the extent of taking it all the way in to the bloodstream.

I think this company that promotes this Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate 'Oil' (its a spray) claims - or at least implies - that the magnesium will reach your bloodstream when you spray it on your skin. And, thus, can replace any oral magnesium supplements you might be taking.

I've never heard of anything water-based reaching the bloodstream via topical administration. (I might be wrong, of course)
But from personal experience I know that something like Emu oil will reach the bloodstream. (I mixed some cannabis extract in some Emu oil, and rubbed a bit of it on the back of my hand. Ten minutes later I was high. Tried the same with Argan oil, and never got high. This makes me think only some oils reach the bloodstream.)

I'm going to have to see the bottle that this Magnesium 'Oil' comes in, so I can see the ingredients (their website doesn't list the ingredients). If it contains water and no actual oil, I'm going to assume this product will never reach my bloodstream.

[niner]

Thanks for the kind words, NanoDoom. You're right- magnesium chloride is never going to be lipid soluble. They use the word "oil" because it's a viscous liquid, but it's not a lipid; i.e., it's water soluble (hydrophilic), not hydrophobic. The only things that get through skin very well are relatively low molecular weight hydrophobic molecules. Even then, transdermal delivery is only used clinically for compounds that are active at low milligram or microgram amounts, like nicotine or fentanyl. If you want to deliver hundreds of milligrams systemically, then either an oral dosage form or some sort of injected form would usually be used. If you cover enough skin area, you can probably get a little bit of magnesium to pass through, but I doubt it would be hundreds of milligrams, or even tens. I searched pubmed using the terms transdermal and magnesium, and can find nothing that indicates it does anything useful. I can find a couple things that suggest it doesn't work... (like this and this.)

I've always found the whole "magnesium oil" thing to be pretty sketchy, and this latest look at the literature isn't changing that picture. If someone were to develop a liposomal system where magnesium chloride was wrapped in a lipid membrane of submicron diameter, then you might be able to sneak some Mg through the skin. If the skin were cracked and dry, Mg salts have been shown to improve skin quality, although even here, it's not clear that there's a significant systemic delivery. In a technique known as Iontophoresis, an electric current is used to drive ionic substances into skin. This might be another way to deliver Mg transdermally. It would probably be best to go with something like green smoothies (watch your oxalate level, though), or a diet that incorporates a lot of leafy green vegetables. Low doses of magnesium chelates spread throughout the day, maybe at the end of meals, might be another way to get Mg without messing up your GI tract too much.

[zeocen]

Well, this is disappointing news. I wish I read this forum before forking out a fair amount of money for Ancient Minerals magnesium oil. I was also wary of whether or not transdermal magnesium oil was actually a "thing" which led me to this website. I also take it orally, though, which is apparently how you can also take it. About 10 sprays morning and night - which I have now lessened to 5 sprays morning and night due to it sometimes upsetting my stomach. Not a laxative effect, just a very unpleasant feeling in the stomach.

Would taking it orally have any actual effect or would I benefit more from a proper oral supplement? And if so, which one?

The only thing I've felt with transdermal application is a tingling or burning if it contacts with a sore, oh and the subsequent oily discomfort.

[Nepomuk]

The short story is: transdermal magnesium is complete nonsense. There are simply no credible trials that demonstrate that magnesium can be adsorbed at appreciable amounts through the intact skin. It does not really matter if it is magnesium "oil," (which is not an oil at all, just a magnesium chloride solution in water) or magnesium sufate (which in its hydrated form is know as Epsom salt). Also no difference if it is a hexahydrate or not (Epsom salt is actually a heptahydrate). When magnesium salts are dissolved in water each magnesium will surround itself with water molecules and strongly hold on to it. So, once dissolved the magnesium in the solution is exactly the same regardless if the salt that was used to make the solution was already hydrated or not. Some people are completely convinced that magnesium oil or soaking in a hot Epsom bath has significant health effects. The fact is, it has nothing to do with magnesium. It's either the relaxing effect of a hot bath or simply a placebo effect with magnesium oil. However, magnesium deficiency is likely an underappreciated issue. But the only way to fix it is by taking supplements like magnesium citrate. As most people know, one has to go easy at it, too much will produce diarrhea.

[zeocen]

Thanks for the reply,

So even taking it orally it still wouldn't be very sufficient in terms of magnesium supplementation?

I found in my local pharmacy a magnesium citrate based pill (took forever to find one amongst the other types like oxide etc), so I think I'm going to get some and see how it goes.

[amar7]

I was sure that I've read about studies about transdermal mag, but maybe my memory is wrong.

Anyway here's an example Dr, Sircus claims
"Transdermal delivery of medicines is generally considered safer, more efficient, convenient and less painful than injections or IV’s."

http://drsircus.com/...dermal#_ednref7

Do you think he is a sellout or just wrong? I plan on adding magnesium supplement and still not sure which delivery method and form. Do you belive that transdermally there is really not an efficient raise in blood magnesium levels, no matter the applied amount?

[zorba990]

Has anyone tried making a liposomal magnesium?

[niner]

Anyway here's an example Dr, Sircus claims
"Transdermal delivery of medicines is generally considered safer, more efficient, convenient and less painful than injections or IV’s."

http://drsircus.com/...dermal#_ednref7

Do you think he is a sellout or just wrong? I plan on adding magnesium supplement and still not sure which delivery method and form. Do you belive that transdermally there is really not an efficient raise in blood magnesium levels, no matter the applied amount?

I think he's a quack. Also wrong. I don't know about sellout, but he sells stuff at his site. That's not a good sign.

[zeocen]

I asked on that website whether there was any peer checked evidence based literature on transdermal magnesium to back up his claims and my post was promptly deleted, so yeah - I guess you can make your judgement from that. :/

[Anagram 3.3]

Anyone think of transdermal Chlorophyll?
According to my math, it would be 27 mg of Mg for every 1 gram of Chlorophyll A, about a leaf. This is about 7% of the daily requirement and probably an OK way of obtaining your daily Mg, considering bio- availability.

[niner]

Anyone think of transdermal Chlorophyll?
According to my math, it would be 27 mg of Mg for every 1 gram of Chlorophyll A, about a leaf. This is about 7% of the daily requirement and probably an OK way of obtaining your daily Mg, considering bio- availability.

Leafy green vegetables are a good source of magnesium, but only if you eat them. You could rub kale or chard on your skin all day long without getting a significant amount of systemic Mg out of it.

[Nepomuk]

There is a "trial" about transdermal magnesium done by Dr. Rosemary Waring in 2004. It is only posted on the internet and will never be published as this study is completely flawed. In short, volunteers had to take a very hot bath in Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) for 12 minutes. Then blood levels of magnesium were measured and compared to the level before the volunteers took the bath. Magnesium levels were indeed a bit higher after the bath, but this study has no controls. The proper way to do this would have been to have a control group that takes the hot bad, but WITHOUT any magnesium. If Dr. Waring would have done so, she would have noticed that the hot bath alone is doing the trick. Essentially by causing dehydration due to the very hot (55 oC) water. At least she noted that the effect was the same, regarless how much Epsom salt was dissolved in the water. The same increase in magnesium levels would have been observed by sending the volunteers for 30 minutes to the sauna. All Dr, Rosemary is left with is a lousy study that does not prove anything. The same goes with Dr. Sircus. He is a quack who wants to sell his book and then some.

[zeocen]

Dr Sircus is slightly infuriating - he's been using the "Baking Soda cures cancer!" card lately. Disregarding any comments that dispute, challenge or even politely ask whether it's true or not (and in my case even deleting said posts) and commenting on things that usually ends with, "it's in my new book coming out..."

I can't believe I brought into transdermal magnesium, especially his product. Although I was taking it orally, I've now been taking 400mg of Magnesium Citrate every day, 200mg in the morning and 200mg at night. First day was interesting for the bowels but after that everything's been fine.

[woleile]

I was sure that I've read about studies about transdermal mag, but maybe my memory is wrong.

Well, there is this:

http://www.epsomsalt...ium_sulfate.pdf

And some anecdotal evidence: I have a kid with phase II liver detox problems. One manifestation was wild hyperactivity and violence when he ate high-phenolic foods. I discovered that an Epsom salts bath would stop one of the reaction in about 10 minutes. Now, that was mostly the effect of the sulfate. But too many of those baths in one week would give him diarrhea. That was the magnesium. This is a test anyone can do at home to answer for himself the question of whether magnesium is absorbed through the skin.

[zeocen]

That's in a bath, though. I've no doubt epsom salts work in a bath, though I would assume the pressure of the water against the skin would have more of an effect, rather than just rubbing magnesium chloride on your skin.

[6ort]

Uhh... has anybody here actually seen this?

 

http://www.cnelm.com...Mg revised2.pdf

[Gerrans]

Uhh... has anybody here actually seen this?

 

http://www.cnelm.com...Mg revised2.pdf

 

That does not smell right to me. No declaration of interests, and some dodgy referencing to such sources as Holy Water, the Fountain of Youth. What is the European Journal for Nutraceutical Research?

 

One reason I do not buy the idea that transdermal magnesium oil has much effect is that skin is pretty impermeable, once you get past the very outer layer. It may have been shown that some magnesium gets into the bloodstream, but I find it hard to believe a serviceable amount does. Trans-snake-oil-magnesium, I call such tackle.

Edited by Gerrans, 01 September 2014 - 01:49 PM.

[niner]

Uhh... has anybody here actually seen this?

 

http://www.cnelm.com...Mg revised2.pdf

 

Yeah, as Gerrans pointed out, this has all kinds of issues.  One of the authors is affiliated with the hair mineral analysis company that did the testing.  They claim that blood is a poor representative of magnesium status, based on a dodgy reference.  Red blood cell magnesium is normally considered a reliable measure.  They repeat the Internet mythology that Mag oxide has only 4% bioavailability, when it's far higher than that if correctly measured.  I think this was a study cooked up specifically to pimp a particular brand of mag chloride, and intended to look like science, but it's not peer reviewed, nor are most of the references. 

[kurdishfella]

just a caution, be careful with magnesium oil because once it gets on your clothes or bed in high amounts it will never dry out and it gets sticky and leaves a stain and smells. I accidentally spilled in my bed and now my sheet is hardened and cold and it looks like i pissed all over myself!

Edited by farshad, 23 November 2019 - 02:28 AM.