24 replies to this topic

[zeruf]

So I've searched through these forums and the internet in general on whether or not phenylpiracetam is effective. No matter where I look their seems to be VERY mixed reviews. Pretty much everyone has a strong opinion about it but the opinion is always either, "It works wonders!" or "It does nothing"... I know their was an issue with one of the major Phenylpiracetam producing labs having off-white product that some suggested was impure, but I doubt that all the Phenylpiracetam haters got theirs from that particular batch.

So my question is do you think Phenylpiracetam is highly effective for some people and simply doesn't effect others? If you've taken it before please provide details as to how much you took, for how long, and whether or not it was effective.

Thanks!

Edited by zeruf, 16 September 2013 - 06:10 AM.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

"It works wonders!"

At least that is my opinion.

While you're at it, check out my major overhaul of its wikipedia article today: https://en.wikipedia...Phenylpiracetam

Edit: Hope this doesn't cause as much of a stir as the NSI-189 article... haha

Edited by 3AlarmLampscooter, 16 September 2013 - 06:45 AM.

[123]

So I've searched through these forums and the internet in general on whether or not phenylpiracetam is effective. No matter where I look their seems to be VERY mixed reviews. Pretty much everyone has a strong opinion about it but the opinion is always either, "It works wonders!" or "It does nothing"... I know their was an issue with one of the major Phenylpiracetam producing labs having off-white product that some suggested was impure, but I doubt that all the Phenylpiracetam haters got theirs from that particular batch.

So my question is do you think Phenylpiracetam is highly effective for some people and simply doesn't effect others? If you've taken it before please provide details as to how much you took, for how long, and whether or not it was effective.

Thanks!

Here is another discussion on this drug.

I deal with Phenylpiracetam for about 7 years and have a lot of friends who tried it.
And I am pretty sure that:

1) It really has pronounced stimulatory effect on some people.
2) Some people definitely have zero stimulatory action when taking phenylpiracetam. For them it works like usual piracetam.
3) Discussion about supplier is really boring and it often starts for the drugs with 'partial efficacy' profile.
In my country we get phenylpiracetam from official pharmacies and even in this case a lot of people trying to find 'absolutely original' phenylpiracetam which should work for them.

"It works wonders!"
At least that is my opinion.
While you're at it, check out my major overhaul of its wikipedia article today: https://en.wikipedia...Phenylpiracetam
Edit: Hope this doesn't cause as much of a stir as the NSI-189 article... haha

Great upgrade for the wiki article. Thank you.

Just now had a discussion on phenylpiracetam on some russian forums. Had a dispute if phenylpiracetam metabolites are amphetamine-like or not.
And it seems that they are not.

Btw, drug seems to be smth like very delicate catecholamine release agent. So its properties for releasing neurotransmitters are pretty unusual and its stimulant activity may depend of cells' state.

[CACCREW]

It doesn't create a stimulating effect because it's not a stimulant.
It'sn a scam. At best.

[tritium]

For me, it works amazingly well for about 2-3 days. After that, tolerance kicks in and I feel absolutely no effect unless I cycle it and take a week off. I'm currently trying to figure out the cause of this tolerace effect and how to overcome it.

[123]

It doesn't create a stimulating effect because it's not a stimulant.
It'sn a scam. At best.

Pretty often small doses of alcohol can lift up the mood. Main reason for that is that it is changing activity of NA-K-ATPase in low doses. Because of potential difference the cell is releasing dopamine in the synapse. That is just one time action in the 'beginning of a party'. This dopamine+ action can be strong enough. But it is implemented just one time when inside cell potential is changed. So first drink can make a powerfull effect. But next drinks are just affecting GABA receptors and have almost zero action on dopamine.

And this first drink effect is not rly obligatory for everybody. It depends, for example on your level of salt consumption.

I just speculate that something similar we have in this case. Phenyl group may work as Ca2+ dependent dopamine releaser.
Phenylpiracetam affects dopamine receptors with unknown mechanism. For smbd it works, for others - not. I also see a pretty significant tolerability, which seems to be not a real tolerance.

There are 2 reason for this compound not being a stimulator:
1) It has effect for just a part of users. When it hits - you really feel it. And when its not - you feel it like an usual piracetam.
2) Dose increase do not induce more intensive effect.

So phenylpiracetam seems to be a racetam with occasionaly stimulation effect. Vodkacetam.

[CACCREW]

Vodkacetam. Hahaha - found that pretty funny

[Heh]

I'm just wondering if a decent dose of Niacin prevents tolerance. Maybe like 1g (with 1g Vitamin C, and 500mg Vitamin B5). Would be curious to find out.

[123]

Dont know. Have some unpleasant skin reaction on nicain in doses over 70mg.
But it would be interesting if somebody tries that.

[Heh]

Dont know. Have some unpleasant skin reaction on nicain in doses over 70mg.
But it would be interesting if somebody tries that.

Yea, that's called the Niacin flush. If you taper up the dosage, then it won't get out of control, and eventually it goes away.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

Try niacinamide instead.

[Heh]

Try niacinamide instead.

Do not! That doesn't cause flushing, but also doesn't have a lot of the positive benefits I'm referring to, and is more likely to cause liver problems at the dosages being talked about here.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

likely to cause liver problems at the dosages being talked about here.

http://link.springer...7/s001250051536

[Sunwind]

I'm going to try P-Pira, what is the dosage range (low-high)?
How long until the onset of the effects are felt after ingestion?

What are the common effects aside "stimulatory"? Is it a happy-stimulant like Modafinil (slight euphoria) or just like Caffeine?

How long is the peak, how long until effects fully wear off?

Let's say it lasts 6 hours, and I took it every morning for 3 days a week (Mon/Tue/Wed) then none until the next Monday, would that keep the tolerance down or is that still too much?

Are there any other things that fit a similar stimulatory profile that might be better than P-Pira? I take Armodafinil but again with that, tolerance builds fast and I have to take a break for the week or it starts to do nothing.

[123]

Its pretty interesting about niacin but I doubt it can help here.
The reason for that is that it may reduce intracellular calcium level. That is why it decreases cell ability to release neurotransmitters.
It may be one of the mechanism that brings feeling of relaxation due to niacin intake. And it probably induces more phenylpiracetam (carphedon) tolerance.

I think that main difference between people who get stimulatory effect on carphedon and those who not is the activity of the NA-K-ATPase in the cell which is the pump to make a concentration gradient of intra- and extracellular space and regulates the activity of the cell transport.

Low ATPase activity brings to the higher level of intracellular calcium that increase the amount of the neurotransmitters released by the cell into the synapse.
The mutation of this enzyme is quite frequent in the population. Its low activity may induce mania (due to increased NT release level), depression (due to vesicle NT depletion) and is frequent reason of hypertension.


So, probably the main reason for getting stimulatory effect on carphedon is low NA-K-ATPase activity. And the way to get this effect is to decrease the enzyme activity.
It is possible that increasing/decreasing salt intake one may regulate the carphedon dopmine release agent effect. But doubt this regulation will be stable because of epigenetic regulation of ATPase according to sodium level.

[dannyo]

likely to cause liver problems at the dosages being talked about here.

http://link.springer...7/s001250051536

well one study so i wouldn't rely always everything on one study.

[zeruf]

I'm beginning to think that people not responding to phenylpiracetam is more of a dosing problem than anything else.

Examine.com recommends 200mg - 600mg daily in 2 - 3 doses, but a lot of the people around here take one dose and it's often 100mg or less. Since tolerance buildup is such a problem with phenyl-p, starting with a small dose and slowly raising it is simply going to make tolerance more of an issue.

Their are some 'non-responders' who claim to have taken doses of 400mg+, but a lot of them only take 100mg. Racetams are a tricky thing and often have a u-shaped effect graph so finding that perfect dose is crucial to receiving the full benefits.

I'm going to do some more research into people's subjective responses. Unfortunately it looks like most of the studies done on Phenyl-P had the same dose administered every day for an extended period of time (meaning that they wouldn't factor in tolerance)

[zeruf]

Alright, so I just got some phenylpiracetam a couple days back and this is my experience:

On Monday, I took about 200mg in powder form about an hour before work along with 5g of creatine (which I've been taking for about a week now). I put the powder in a glass of water since it's suppose to be water soluble though some of it clumped and didn't dissolve well even when stirred. I drank it and WOW did it ever taste gross! Had to stuff my face with some food right after to get the taste out of my mouth. By the time I left for work an hour later I felt energized but not in a caffeiney (that should be a word) way. Like many people have said it's a much cleaner energy than caffeine. When I got to work I chugged an energy drink (about 182mg of caffeine) since I've read phenylpiracetam and caffeine go well together. By the time I started work I felt energized and ready to work hard. I usually have an energy drink right before work about 3 days a week anyway so I know how it effects me. My job involves mostly physical labor. Normally around 4 hours in I start to crash when I work as hard as I did that day, but this time I had no problems keeping up the pace. The only thing I really felt all day in terms of fatigue was the caffeine wearing off, but even that didn't really slow me down that much. I still felt I could keep going at a fast pace. Even after work I didn't really feel tired from the day. Wednesday I had a similar experience with another 200mg of phenylpiracetam (alongside 600mg of Alpha GPC this time, which finally showed up in the mail).

The one major thing I've noticed about phenylpiracetam is it doesn't really make you feel 'energetic' per se. What I mean is it doesn't make you jump around, talk really fast, or make it impossible to sit still. It gives you a 'get 'er done' attitude and makes it a lot easier to focus. It also allows you to do a lot more things before getting tired. So it's more anti-fatigue than pro-energy from my experience.

Also I didn't notice any cognitive benefits from it but then again I wasn't exactly doing much for brain work.

[nuc]

If anyone here thinks phenyl doesn't work, take it an hour before you plan to go to sleep and you'll see if it doesn't work.

[▲420MD]

Phenylpiracetam is seriously stimulating. I believe it's hitting something different than piracetam based on structure-activity-relationships, because piracetam does not have anywhere near the effect of phenylpiracetam.

100mg is too much for me, it actually makes me kind of nervous.

[nuc]

That's why it's best to take it with aniracetam and l-theanine or a cup of tea.

[▲420MD]

Theanine does stack well with 'racetams. Still, even with 200mg-400mg theanine per day Phenylpiracetam can be really strong. I've decided because of the cost that I only use it when I really need to, like for hard days of work, school, etc. Phenyl can overpower Valium, Baclofen, and even Soma - all together! Its some wild stuff. I'll always keep some around, its like non-stimulating(physically) adderall. I'm jealous the russians can just go grab a box for like $15-20 lol, we're stuck with caffeine and imports.

100mg Theanine + 50mg Phenyl + 50mg Noopept is wonderful though.

Edited by ▲420MD, 06 October 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[nuc]

Because phenyl is quite strong, i found it best not to use on a daily basis. I feel that the neurons need some rest. When used sparingly you do not develop tolerance. Plus i beleive that the effects aren't cumulative like they are with noopept or piracetam. It's a bit like stimulants such as amphetamines and TSRIs. Your brain develops some form of resistance to perform a load balancing method of keeping things normal. And i beleive too much of anything can go the other way, such as neuron death which would explain becoming less responsive with continious use of certain racetams at higher doses.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

And i beleive too much of anything can go the other way, such as neuron death which would explain becoming less responsive with continious use of certain racetams at higher doses.

Receptor downregulation and neurotoxicity are two different things.

[123]

Well guys. its pretty interesting topic.
I made some additional research on phenylpiracetam. It seems that its effect is mediated by acetycholine receptors which are working on Na-K-Mg basis.

It seems to be a really interesting substance which seems to implement its stimulation effect throught nicotine receptors.

I believe its stimulation effect depends on your Na-K-Mg status and regulation of the receptors based on it.

blah-blah-blah

Dosage and all this stuff is not rly actual. Carphedon works good, works bad or just doesnt works, Thats the business.