14 replies to this topic

[Duchykins]

I talk a little about that here

httpt://www.longecity...-they-worth-it/

Ayouwe are in complete agreement about the connection between drug efficacy and our general state of health.

It's really late for me so I won't be getting into another TL;DR but I will comment on the noopept as I did notice a mild mood lifting effect with it that I did not get with phenylpiracetam. It wasn't quite euphoric anything like the serotonin 'high' I get after killing a migraine with a triptan, but it was just nice. It reminded me of a moderate dose of theanine and taurine. And it came on slowly. I was more at ease in company and willing to speak.

Edit: it could be that the salmon might not be enough of a choline source for you with the noopept. Some people like me don't need a big dose of choline, just a small boost, (two caps of lecithin tend to do it for me, not even a half
daily dose of lecithin), some don't need it at all, but it seems most do need GPC or CDP, so just be mindful of that.

Get your amino acids with the addition of noopept. A complete source. Your brain and body will thank you.

I personally began with 10mg noopept once a day, to see how it would affect me and how long.

Edited by Duchykins, 10 February 2014 - 07:03 AM.

[Duchykins]

I talk a little about that here

httpt://www.longecity...-they-worth-it/

Ayouwe are in complete agreement about the connection between drug efficacy and our general state of health.

It's really late for me so I won't be getting into another TL;DR but I will comment on the noopept as I did notice a mild mood lifting effect with it that I did not get with phenylpiracetam. It wasn't quite euphoric anything like the serotonin 'high' I get after killing a migraine with a triptan, but it was just nice. It reminded me of a moderate dose of theanine and taurine. And it came on slowly. I was more at ease in company and willing to speak.

Edit: it could be that the salmon might not be enough of a choline source for you with the noopept. Some people like me don't need a big dose of choline, just a small boost, (two caps of lecithin tend to do it for me, not even a half
daily dose of lecithin), some don't need it at all, but it seems most do need GPC or CDP, so just be mindful of that.

Get your amino acids with the addition of noopept. A complete source. Your brain and body will thank you.

I personally began with 10mg noopept once a day, to see how it would affect me and how long.

I was told that noopept doesn't deplete choline and that a choline supplement is not necessary to take with it. I read that it is an acetylcholine sensitizer. But then I continued to read more threads on here and a few people reported that a small dose of choline is necessary for noopept supplementation. i have been on my stack for about a week now. Initially I felt great but recently I have entered into another bout of depression, I think I may need to add a choline source and increase my ALCAR supplementation. TBH I have been slacking on my salmon so I haven't been getting much choline. Lets hope it improves from here.

The choline with noopept is pretty much the same as choline and all the other noots - it's very case dependent. I hear people are less likely to get headaches with noopept but I still see reports of headaches that were resolved with choline. Me too, today I had to take an additional 200mg of choline bit because the headache started lurking even though I took 2 lecithin and 300mg choline and 400mg ALCAR. I seem to need less choline than most but I still need some.

Whenever people start taking supplements, not just noots but any supplement regime, some tend to feel awesome at first and then slowed down not too long later, anywhere from a couple weeks to a couple of months. That's usually because they've depleted one or more things in their body. It's much more complicated than people think. The general rule of thumb with supplements is, you increase one thing in your body, something else decreases. Sometimes that is deliberate and good, but often people have no idea and mess themselves up a little bit.

That can be solved by reading a LOT about all the supplements you take, and either adding another supplement to compensate (or removing a particular supplement completely) OR cycling off your supplements for a bit.

And stay hydrated. More supps means more water, generally.

[Duchykins]

I talk a little about that here

httpt://www.longecity...-they-worth-it/

Ayouwe are in complete agreement about the connection between drug efficacy and our general state of health.

It's really late for me so I won't be getting into another TL;DR but I will comment on the noopept as I did notice a mild mood lifting effect with it that I did not get with phenylpiracetam. It wasn't quite euphoric anything like the serotonin 'high' I get after killing a migraine with a triptan, but it was just nice. It reminded me of a moderate dose of theanine and taurine. And it came on slowly. I was more at ease in company and willing to speak.

Edit: it could be that the salmon might not be enough of a choline source for you with the noopept. Some people like me don't need a big dose of choline, just a small boost, (two caps of lecithin tend to do it for me, not even a half
daily dose of lecithin), some don't need it at all, but it seems most do need GPC or CDP, so just be mindful of that.

Get your amino acids with the addition of noopept. A complete source. Your brain and body will thank you.

I personally began with 10mg noopept once a day, to see how it would affect me and how long.

I was told that noopept doesn't deplete choline and that a choline supplement is not necessary to take with it. I read that it is an acetylcholine sensitizer. But then I continued to read more threads on here and a few people reported that a small dose of choline is necessary for noopept supplementation. i have been on my stack for about a week now. Initially I felt great but recently I have entered into another bout of depression, I think I may need to add a choline source and increase my ALCAR supplementation. TBH I have been slacking on my salmon so I haven't been getting much choline. Lets hope it improves from here.

The choline with noopept is pretty much the same as choline and all the other noots - it's very case dependent. I hear people are less likely to get headaches with noopept but I still see reports of headaches that were resolved with choline. Me too, today I had to take an additional 200mg of choline bit because the headache started lurking even though I took 2 lecithin and 300mg choline and 400mg ALCAR. I seem to need less choline than most but I still need some.

Whenever people start taking supplements, not just noots but any supplement regime, some tend to feel awesome at first and then slowed down not too long later, anywhere from a couple weeks to a couple of months. That's usually because they've depleted one or more things in their body. It's much more complicated than people think. The general rule of thumb with supplements is, you increase one thing in your body, something else decreases. Sometimes that is deliberate and good, but often people have no idea and mess themselves up a little bit.

That can be solved by reading a LOT about all the supplements you take, and either adding another supplement to compensate (or removing a particular supplement completely) OR cycling off your supplements for a bit.

And stay hydrated. More supps means more water, generally.

I can confirm now that I am choline dominant. I found that even taking a dose of 210 mg Phosphatidyl Choline (from 1.2g sunflower lecithin) and 500 mg ALCAR caused worsening of symptoms. Compared to the dosages of cholinergic supplements that others use, I would say that this is relatively low. I think noopept has cured me of depression because this was different. Anything at this dose or above robbed me of the motivation that I received from my stack. I felt dull, uncreative, and tired but satisfied in a way. It is difficult to explain, but since I am an extrovert it was not something I want to experience again. Interacting with people was a struggle, I would have rather sat at home and watched Judge Judy all day. My eyes looked slightly red like from a marijuana high and they felt heavy and sore, like a pressure behind them. There was no pain, and again it almost felt satisfying. I would like to mention that I think my case is unique because of my high doses of B5 (pantothenic acid) and L-Cysteine which I use to treat acne (very, very effective btw). I use L-Cysteine and not N-acetyl-L-cysteine so that it doesn't interfere with my stack by donating an Acetyl group. This is why I intially started with ALCAR instead of NAC to avoid interaction. The B5 and L-Cysteine are used in conjunction to boost Acetyl-CoenzymeA production for fat metabolism (I believe that acne is caused by a defect in fat metabolism which leads to more skin sebum, I digress). But I also read that Acetyl-CoA is related to Acetylcholine production maybe, that might be wrong. So my high doses of B5 along with noopept (choline sensitizer) probably exacerbated my sensitivity to choline sources. I have changed my stack now by eliminating ALCAR but still eating daily wild canned salmon for a choline source. I also lowered my noopept dose to 10 mg 2x daily. I do still think that I need to dose ALCAR occasionally because after a week without any ALCAR or Sunflower Lecithin when I first began Noopept I became extremely depressed. I posted above how effective it was when I introduced those 2 together, but with continual dosing I felt worse and worse. Noopept may deplete ACh long term but for me ACh-promoting supps should never be taken daily, but that's just me.

I get similar symptoms when I take choline doses that are closer to the recommended doses.

I take only 400mg of ALCAR a day but I'm loath to do less than daily doses, even though I just added an NAC evening dose. Looks like I'll have to read more about ALCAR and NAC, going by what you say. If so, that sucks because ALCAR is in my staple stack and I'm just beginning a cycle off everything but EPA/DHA, chromium, magnesium, Co Q 10, ALCAR and lecithin (most effective migraine prophylaxis combo I've ever used, including prescription preventatives) and went on my liver and thyroid support stacks; milk thistle, NAC, iodine, tyrosine, super low dose nicotinic acid.

I think I'm going to trash the rest of my choline bitartrate and just use lecithin with occasional low doses of citicoline. Of all the choline sources, lecithin is easiest on the body, especially the liver.

[Duchykins]

I talk a little about that here

httpt://www.longecity...-they-worth-it/

Ayouwe are in complete agreement about the connection between drug efficacy and our general state of health.

It's really late for me so I won't be getting into another TL;DR but I will comment on the noopept as I did notice a mild mood lifting effect with it that I did not get with phenylpiracetam. It wasn't quite euphoric anything like the serotonin 'high' I get after killing a migraine with a triptan, but it was just nice. It reminded me of a moderate dose of theanine and taurine. And it came on slowly. I was more at ease in company and willing to speak.

Edit: it could be that the salmon might not be enough of a choline source for you with the noopept. Some people like me don't need a big dose of choline, just a small boost, (two caps of lecithin tend to do it for me, not even a half
daily dose of lecithin), some don't need it at all, but it seems most do need GPC or CDP, so just be mindful of that.

Get your amino acids with the addition of noopept. A complete source. Your brain and body will thank you.

I personally began with 10mg noopept once a day, to see how it would affect me and how long.

I was told that noopept doesn't deplete choline and that a choline supplement is not necessary to take with it. I read that it is an acetylcholine sensitizer. But then I continued to read more threads on here and a few people reported that a small dose of choline is necessary for noopept supplementation. i have been on my stack for about a week now. Initially I felt great but recently I have entered into another bout of depression, I think I may need to add a choline source and increase my ALCAR supplementation. TBH I have been slacking on my salmon so I haven't been getting much choline. Lets hope it improves from here.

The choline with noopept is pretty much the same as choline and all the other noots - it's very case dependent. I hear people are less likely to get headaches with noopept but I still see reports of headaches that were resolved with choline. Me too, today I had to take an additional 200mg of choline bit because the headache started lurking even though I took 2 lecithin and 300mg choline and 400mg ALCAR. I seem to need less choline than most but I still need some.

Whenever people start taking supplements, not just noots but any supplement regime, some tend to feel awesome at first and then slowed down not too long later, anywhere from a couple weeks to a couple of months. That's usually because they've depleted one or more things in their body. It's much more complicated than people think. The general rule of thumb with supplements is, you increase one thing in your body, something else decreases. Sometimes that is deliberate and good, but often people have no idea and mess themselves up a little bit.

That can be solved by reading a LOT about all the supplements you take, and either adding another supplement to compensate (or removing a particular supplement completely) OR cycling off your supplements for a bit.

And stay hydrated. More supps means more water, generally.

I can confirm now that I am choline dominant. I found that even taking a dose of 210 mg Phosphatidyl Choline (from 1.2g sunflower lecithin) and 500 mg ALCAR caused worsening of symptoms. Compared to the dosages of cholinergic supplements that others use, I would say that this is relatively low. I think noopept has cured me of depression because this was different. Anything at this dose or above robbed me of the motivation that I received from my stack. I felt dull, uncreative, and tired but satisfied in a way. It is difficult to explain, but since I am an extrovert it was not something I want to experience again. Interacting with people was a struggle, I would have rather sat at home and watched Judge Judy all day. My eyes looked slightly red like from a marijuana high and they felt heavy and sore, like a pressure behind them. There was no pain, and again it almost felt satisfying. I would like to mention that I think my case is unique because of my high doses of B5 (pantothenic acid) and L-Cysteine which I use to treat acne (very, very effective btw). I use L-Cysteine and not N-acetyl-L-cysteine so that it doesn't interfere with my stack by donating an Acetyl group. This is why I intially started with ALCAR instead of NAC to avoid interaction. The B5 and L-Cysteine are used in conjunction to boost Acetyl-CoenzymeA production for fat metabolism (I believe that acne is caused by a defect in fat metabolism which leads to more skin sebum, I digress). But I also read that Acetyl-CoA is related to Acetylcholine production maybe, that might be wrong. So my high doses of B5 along with noopept (choline sensitizer) probably exacerbated my sensitivity to choline sources. I have changed my stack now by eliminating ALCAR but still eating daily wild canned salmon for a choline source. I also lowered my noopept dose to 10 mg 2x daily. I do still think that I need to dose ALCAR occasionally because after a week without any ALCAR or Sunflower Lecithin when I first began Noopept I became extremely depressed. I posted above how effective it was when I introduced those 2 together, but with continual dosing I felt worse and worse. Noopept may deplete ACh long term but for me ACh-promoting supps should never be taken daily, but that's just me.

I get similar symptoms when I take choline doses that are closer to the recommended doses.

I take only 400mg of ALCAR a day but I'm loath to do less than daily doses, even though I just added an NAC evening dose. Looks like I'll have to read more about ALCAR and NAC, going by what you say. If so, that sucks because ALCAR is in my staple stack and I'm just beginning a cycle off everything but EPA/DHA, chromium, magnesium, Co Q 10, ALCAR and lecithin (most effective migraine prophylaxis combo I've ever used, including prescription preventatives) and went on my liver and thyroid support stacks; milk thistle, NAC, iodine, tyrosine, super low dose nicotinic acid.

I think I'm going to trash the rest of my choline bitartrate and just use lecithin with occasional low doses of citicoline. Of all the choline sources, lecithin is easiest on the body, especially the liver.

I would say my approach to mental and physical health comes from an evolutionary perspective. Lecithin is common in small amounts in many foods and we probably evolved eating a certain amount every day. One user on here stated that the body regulates how much choline it derives from lecithin whereas other sources like CDP-choline and Choline Bitartrate are not regulated. I'm not sure how true that is but it is congruent with my approach. And like I said, my experience is unique because of my mega doses of B5 & L-Cysteine and my noopept. So find your threshold, its likely different than mine. I'd like to mention that I have been analyzing my diet more and my choline intake clocks in at 733mg/day from the canned salmon alone which i calculated through nutritiondata.self. I'm thinking of quitting the salmon because it seems that factor was causing the wavering of my experience (I eat it irregularly). But I was relying on that for my DHA & EPA and also for the B-vitamins. Shit. Its unfortunate how much we have to adjust our stacks along with our other health issues. Too many supplements interact with each other. For example I can't use pro-thyroid iodine supps cause they give me bad acne. wtf mate.

oh and please take everything I say with a grain of salt, because it's not based directly on science just my intuition (I am a bio major though if that means anything)

i think i'll give ALCAR night doses a try, maybe the dulling/sore effect will be gone by morning, that would be ideal

Well said. And it is a pain in the ass having to adjust everything. And having to avoid certain supplements that can be very useful sucks hard. I have to be careful with tyrosine because the body converts some of it to tyramine, which is a migraine trigger almost as nasty as glutamate. But tyrosine is hugely beneficial and I need some for thyroid support because I do have low thy with the cold hands/hot face, fatigue and all that. I hate having to always have a triptan ready when I take something with anything but low doses of tyrosine.

It's bad enough to have to avoid a lot of healthful foods because they contain reliable migraine triggers.

I also look at diet through the glass of evolutionary biology. That's why I reject vegetarian, raw and low carb diets. What you said about lecithin is right, it's easier on the liver because of how the body processes it slowly and evenly, as opposed to the other choline sources that hit the liver like a hammer all at once. But it's mostly the bitartrate that is hardest on the liver.

good luck with your alcar bro

[Gran Turisma]

"The goal of my stack is to reduce chronic depression, social anxiety, my adrenal (and possibly thyroid) issue, and to improve cognitive function long term that may have been affected by a fake LSD drug called 25-i. I have been on this stack for 3 days now and I already feel improved."

Oner, I have started using glutathione sublingually recently (a reduced powder form) for thyroid and got evidence the very next day that it was working. My eyelids have been puffy for years. I managed to get them 90% better by removing foods high in Omega 6, but there was always that little bit of not-quite-there showing, especially when crappy foods sneaked into my diet. But 250mg under the tongue twice a day, even once a day, and my eyelids are suddenly back to normal after years. Amazing how fast it works. I also noticed that after eating foods that gave me fatigue (like foods high in sulphites) there is no longer that fatigue. This started the day I started the glutathione. Google hypothyroid + glutathione. There are several articles discussing the benefits. I am guessing you are talking about hypothyroid, not hyperthyroid, although it doesn't matter because glut benefits all forms of autoimmune conditions.

Re the depression, I have a suggestion which, though it may seem simplistic, may help you as it has for me. A few weeks ago it dawned on me that I needed a philosophy in order to be happy, because waiting for happiness to happen or for events to make it happen or even taking 5-HTP when needed was not cutting it in the long term. So then a day or so later something reminded me of the practice of gratitude. I Googled studies on gratitude and found the research of Dr Robert Emmons. In an 8 year study with thousands of people he found a high correlation to gratitude and happiness (and even longevity). So I looked up books on gratitude and found one by Rhonda Byrnes called The Magic which has great daily practices that helped keep me focused and remembering to be grateful. Her pitch in the book is that more gratitude will bring more of what you want into your life. But my reason for using it is to maintain a state of happiness, or in the least, peace of mind. Having practiced this for a few days I noticed my morning anxiety had disappeared. I am also definitely a lot happier.

I realise brain chemistry can affect your state of mind, but it can go the other way with state of mind affecting brain chemistry, thus creating a feedback loop. So you can break the feedback loop to a degree by changing your state of mind.

Hope this all helps.

[Gran Turisma]

You sound a bit like me about 5 years ago. At one point I was taking about two dozen different supplements every day, with multiple caps and tabs of each. It was crazy, and all it gave me was diarrhea. In the end I realised that less is more, and started looking into dietary changes. It sounds like you are on a good track with diet. Are you basically on a paleo diet? I found the low carbs too exhausting, though possibly I was also not eating enough calories.

Yes, puffy eyelids are a typical sign of hypothyroid, though people might not necessarily have them, and vice versa, it's not always from hypothyroid (eg, hayfever allergies will trigger it for some people).

I would definitely give the glycine a go if you want the glutathione. I got instant improvement on my eyelids the next day. It was so fast I was amazed. Most supplements I have taken have had no or negligible effect, so it was a nice change.

With adrenals, have you done a saliva assay to ascertain problems there? I did several a few years ago before making dietary changes, and they all came back with a drop mid morning. The path lab assessment was that I had adrenal insufficiency or fatigue (cannot remember the word they used). A saliva assay is the best way to test adrenals.

Ever since removing omega 6 foods from my diet, plus some other weird foods like vegetable gums, tapioca starch, etc, my adrenal and thyroid symptoms improved by a long mile. I always ate a fairly good diet all my life except for twelve years as a vegetarian where I ate a lot of soy protein. I think that's where it fell down for me. These days I eat meat and feel physically so much better. If I went back to vego, I'd be relying on egg and fermented organic rice powder for protein, rather than legumes.

[Gran Turisma]

BTW, I just found out about a new form of glutathione which can be taken orally and does not have the mega high levels of Omega 6 that liposomal glut has.... it's acetyl-glutathione. It IS expensive, so if you want to go the precursor route, make sure your cysteine is in the N-acetyl-cysteine form so that it survives the digestive tract. Also take vitamin C with the NAC to prevent kidney stone formation.

Oh yeh, and re my statement "I got instant improvement on my eyelids the next day. " I meant that the day after I started using glutathione my eyelids were back to normal.