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Cognition Delay, Depression/Anxiety, and Memory

noopept alpha gpc centrophenoxine sunifiram bcomplex theanine tyrosine dha adrafinil

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#1 ByAnyMeansNecessary

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 05:05 AM


Greetings Everyone!

 

I am posting the current regimen/stack combination I've been taking for roughly about a week or two now that I've found works pretty well for me. I suffer from cognitive delays (tests indicate I function roughly at a third of the cognitive speed of most people), major depressive mood disorder, and chronic fatigue (all of which I believe is related to the cognitive delays-- but thats a subject for a different day). 

 

I currently take the following on a pretty daily basis (taking off on the weekends for the nootropics):

-200mg Theanine (two capsules, once daily): This is to help smooth out any jitters caused by stimulants, notably for me, caffeine. I tend to find this helps some as well with anxiety, which is important because I  work in a high stress environment (I recently started work in the manufacturing industry doing CNC work despite being the most unmechanically inclined person on the face of the planet).

-500mg L-Tyrosine(one pill, once daily): This is to help boost energy levels in a subtle way throughout the day. I tend to find that this is minorly focusing.

-30mg Noopept (two to three times daily): Before I began my regimen, I had had some experience with noopept  as a cognitive enhancer. For me, it tends to make everything clearer. Most of the time I have to think extensively about what Im doing or saying before I do it, or else there is some communication/problems that arise. While on noopept, when I look at problems, I know almost instantly what it is that I need to do or what to say. As a result, I believe that this has caused this particular drug to have anxiolytic effects as it has freed up some of the cognitive workload that I struggle through. The only downside is that I find that my short term memory occasionally has lapses (just slightly more than normal, but, not excessively so that its an issue)

-10-15mg Sunifiram (2-3 times daily): So far, this is probably the most powerful nootropic I've taken so far. For me, this is my major stimulant that super focuses me while improving my cognition substantially. The energy it gives me is probably one of the most noticeable parts about this nootropic... I would agree that its similar to the stimulant effect of adderall (although it is more mellow, and cleaner) but unlike adderall, sunifiram gives me a driven energy. You know, the kind of energy you have when you know without any doubt that you can accomplish any issue thrown in your way. The only downside about this, is that I believe it feeds into the noopepts short term memory loss side effect as I tend to find myself focusing on things so intensely that when I have to switch tasks, I have to remember what it was that I was doing. This for me also has a strongly anti-depressive property. I find myself more sociable, less aggravated (I have stress and anger issues as well), and perfectly aware of what Im doing as well as everything around me...and when I say everything, I mean everything-- in particular my sense of timing has greatly increased (this is very useful for my line of work). That, and the sweating. This causes me to sweat A LOT (and its somewhat of an irritation because the environment I work in can be incredibly hot). 

-300mg Alpha GPC (twice daily): I use this as a choline supplement for the noots I use. I find that this also has a calming effect, but it leaves my mind razor sharp. 

-150mg Centrophenoxine (twice daily): This is another choline supplement, but also I find benefit from the DMAE that is released. For me, this tends to act similar to the Alpha GPC,  except that it causes my mood to generally perk up. Everything tends to feel "better". 

-900mg Algal DHA (three pills, once daily): I started taking this not too long ago and have found that it has helped with my memory, particularly in combating the short term memory issues from the noopept. I have also found that the intake of the omega 3 has also increased the effectiveness of the centro. 

-400mg CoQ10 (two pills, usually once daily, though sometimes I split up the doses): In the past, I've found that this supplement has also helped with my energy levels. The other perks of the CoQ10 are just icing on the cake.

-Vitamin B Super Complex (once daily): This is just for my energy. Overall, I tend to find that this also effects my mood more when on everything else. 

 

Side note: I plan on stopping the sunifiram + noopept combo in the near future as I am going to substitute in adrafinil as soon as it arrives in the mail.

 

Out of curiousity, is the Alpha GPC and centro stacking alright, or does it seem excessive? Are there any downsides to continuing to stack this that I am not picking up on? Due to the noopept + sunifiram stack, I figured that by stacking two quality sources of choline would reduce any negative side effects from the noots (and so far, its worked).

 

Are there any other supplements or compounds I should also look into?

 

Thanks! 



#2 Weirding Way

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 06:39 AM

I'm interested to know if the short term memory issues due to noopept/sunifiram can be effectively combated with the use of the Dual N Back game, which is supposed to raise IQ and improve working memory also known as short term memory.  You can get the software for Dual N Back for free somewhere as in the Brain Workshop suite. 

 

Replacing Noopept and Sunifiram is understandable, but if possible it seems wise to try to get an RX for Modafinil, since Adrafinil may negatively effect the liver over long term use.  Another thing to be aware of is the possibility of developing Tardive Dyskinesia from Modafinil or Adrafinil, which has been reported though the prevalence of which I am unaware of. 

 

Do you notice that your body seems to require more water while on your current nootropics? 

 

Another option for energy/stimulation/mood support you might consider is SAM-e.  I find that it is very similar to the Adrafinil that I have taken, only it lasts longer and it has more of a mood elevating quality than Adrafinil. I would have to take 300 mg of Adrafinil twice per day to get the same amount of energy as one dose of 200 mg SAM-e.  It's interesting how these noots can all be stimulating in their own sort of way, with slightly different qualities.

 

Good luck with your nootropics!

 

 


Edited by Weirding Way, 12 May 2014 - 06:41 AM.


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#3 Neal Cullum

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 10:36 PM

Judging by your symptoms have you tried rhodiola rosea? It's pretty good stuff! Might have to tweak about a bit with the dosage as from my experience too much gives me some anxiety.



#4 ByAnyMeansNecessary

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 12:37 AM

Hello again everyone,

 

Thank you so far for your responses.

 

To clarify and answer some questions:  I only want to cycle out the sunifiram, not the noopept. My reason for doing this is that I respond well to noopept, and even when the major noticeable effects fade (improved cognitive speed being the most notable), I find that the emotional "glow" produced by noopept becomes stronger and tends to pervade all aspects of my life. I plan on cycling out the sunifiram and using it as an alternative for when I begin cycling noopept in and out (I plan on doing a 3 months on, 1 month off).

 

In terms of requiring more water, I actually automatically increased my water intake to try and combat any issues that might arise as a result of the sweating, so, Im not sure.

 

I noticed something today regarding this combination. I have found that while my overall mood remains elevated and upbeat, when I begin to miss a dose (doses are done around 8am, noon, and 3pm) I begin to grow very agitated. I believe this to be the sunifiram and my aggrivation is as a result of the comedown (although I think that this may indicate possible addictive qualities-- which I need to monitor closely) as the suni is the most recent addition (suni only for a week, everything else two weeks).

 

Both of those compounds are very interesting and I'll look into adding them/using them for different cycles and other combinations (I have not only been coming up with combinations for myself, but have been looking into selling stacks to student friends for some extra income). Recently, I've been looking into Uridine as I believe it will support/enhance a lot of the other supplements/nootropics I've been taking. Does anyone have any experience using uridine?

 

Thanks!



#5 Shane Minor

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:45 AM

L theanine is a great source of GABA. Noopept has worked pretty well for me too as far as visual improvements, as well as my hearing had improve. I'm more cautious about noopept and its ability to stimulate NGF which had me completely discontinue supplementation. I don't know about you, but I've read some articles where medical professionals recommended not taking anything that stimulates NGF... Basically, the mind and body naturally stop growing to a certain extent for a reason. Keeping your mind healthy is far less risky than trying to regenerate it completely. Ashwagandha is good for depression and anxiety as it enhances dopamine through increasing adrenal activity... Bacopa is synergistic with Ashwagandha, both these Ayurvedic herbs promote the production and strengthening of axons and dendrites. L Theanine taken with caffeine works great for focus too at smaller doses. As far as supplementing with all those choline precursors, good on you mate. I'd add Ashwagandha to your stack as a replacement of Noopept. Unless you want to wake up in 20 years with a brain tumor I wouldnt continue using Noopept.

#6 ByAnyMeansNecessary

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 03:51 AM

Hi Shane Minor,

 

From what I understand from the research on Noopept and NGF is that neither is particularly bad. Too much NGF can increase the spread of certain types of cancers, but, it has also been shown to slow down other types as well. The reddit topic on this is actually quite informative (found here). 

 

In general, I tend to find that noopept has antidepressive, anxiolytic, and energy stabilizing properties. Memory is slightly increased, but not substantially. Personally, I'll continue to take noopept as it works pretty synergistically with the stack I have going currently-- partially as I believe that I was born with some sort of predisposition to my brain not generating enough stimulation.

 

As a result, I believe this has caused my cognitive delays subsequently leading to my depression (I am diagnosed as having major depressive mood disorder) and chronic fatigue (or something like that. Confounding variables and all). In the past, I have been prescribed numerous antidepressants, most having pretty horrible results/effects (except for welbutrin, which I attribute it to being an NDRI). However, I found that such psychiatric medications to be problematic, and usually leading to me feeling worse. Since my useage of noopept and my current stack, my overall quality of life has improved especially considering I am currently going through a major depressive episode (I am still depressed, but much less so, and the feeling tends to be intermittent).

 

Recently, NGF has been speculated to have some role in certain psychiatric disorders such as dementia, depression, schizophrenia, autism, Rett syndrome, anorexia nervosa, and bulimia nervosa. Because of my experiences with noopept, Im inclined to believe that perhaps taking a drug that stimulates NGF is actually not particularly a health risk to me as perhaps it is increasing my NGF level to what it needs to be. There are a lot of factors that play into how drugs work, who they work for, who should take them and who shouldnt. Granted, my beliefs are purely based upon speculation and my experiences in the past with various other drugs... but my point still stands: it may not be bad for all people. 

 

In terms of the choline supplementation. I've actually cut back my Alpha GPC consumption to occasional use as I was finding repeated use caused me to feel more depressed. However, I have found that the centrophenoxine has been particularly helpful and synergistic with everything else. Are there any recommendations anyone can give for other alternative choline supplements? Im afraid to try CDP choline due to the warning that people with MDMD may react very poorly to it. Choline bitartrate works okay, but I feel  isnt as good of a quality and occasionally I find I get headaches from it.  

 

Now that my adrafinil is here, Im going to begin weening off sunifiram to avoid certain negative side effects, I experimentally upped my dose to total roughly 120mg per day for the past few days. I've found that my moods tend to be more extreme, though more consistently upbeat.  However, when I get agitated or emotionally distraught, my emotions tend to go to extremes. Overall though, my mood is substantially lifted.  The sweating I experienced in the beginning of taking sunifiram daily has diminished and only pops up intermittently and for much shorter periods of time typically right after dosing.

 

Thanks for the responses!



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#7 Shane Minor

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 04:43 AM

Yeah, like I said I'd recommend Ashwagandha as it slows down the process of acetylcholinesterase , similar drugs to Ashwagandha are currently being used to treat Alzheimer's Disease. Ashwagandha also increases the activity in the adrenal glands and other glands, for people with chemical imbalances this has been compared to many SSRIs and has been known to be as effective, if not better as an alternative. If anything, supplementing with these substances alone are not going to cure everything, but has been known to increase the effects and results of neuroplasticity. Meditation works great, but you'd need a technique to numb your entire body, including your mind otherwise meditation simply isn't that effective. Learning new information, drawing, and getting in touch with your imagination is simply going to help your mind expand itself. Choline precursors, Ashwagandha, & Bacopa are genuinely my stack.. Works great, and meditation which also helps move me forward into the proper direction. Re programming the mind is a process, and requires more than one discipline. You can't just take a pill or a stack of pills and suddenly turn into a self replicated version of Eddie Mora or whatever his name was min the movie Limitless. As far as keeping your brain healthy and on the right track, the proper supplementation will also be apart of that journey to higher potential,'and overall mental acuity. Good luck ;)
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