707 replies to this topic

[VastEmptiness]

Reprogramming aside, floating alone is probably a very strong amplifier of NFB. Basically it removes all other input so the brain *only* gets the NFB. From an information theory standpoint, the signal has much better resolution with the removal of the noise of sensory input.

Combining the two simultaneously likey shortens the time to a given NFB outcome. I do wonder, though, if it works best for deep states training (like Alpha-Theta and TAGSync) and not so well for trainings that aim to increase alertness.

I think I said that earlier, but welcome on board and already thanks a lot for your valuable contributions. Reading your post now gave me a creepy sensation of synchronicity almost like I met a part of my brain externalized Having studied Hypnotherapy intensively and utilising the learned in all of my coaching and group-work today (mostly implicit trancework and hyperlearning stuff, i coined the term "subcortical coaching" lately), I spent a great deal of time thinking of integrating the two as well as discussing with Crow how we could get electrodes into the tank, hehe. It gives me a very pleasing sensation to see you already digging deep into the topic which just makes me really curious. You post basicly sums up what I love about this forum.

 

In classic (suggestive) Hypnotherapy they used suggestibility scores for various clients to judge what they can do and how deep they could go. While i believe alot of that to rely on the therapeutic relationship there is certainly also the factor of the ability of the client's brain to take suggestion. Actually this might very simply relate to something like Theta-amplitude in certain parts of the brain or something like Theta/Alpha ratio peak, synchrony, etc. I was always amazed by clients that were able to hallucinate right away or profoundly change their perception of the world in a second just by some suggestion and being in a safe place/trusting. Actually while most people like to think of themselves as not very suggestible (because they like to be so strong/autonomous whatever), I actually envied that skill because those people can just use self-hypnosis tapes at home and radically change their perception of life. While I feel like my brain and my personality are getting alot more efficient/willing to change quickly with continued training, I'm still very controlling and would really like to train that skill up. However, yes, I see alot of potential for abuse as well. It's basicly high-tech brain washing and that really then depends on the content that you're putting into the person.

 

The point about information density of the feedback is great, haven't thought of that. Was mostly thinking of less distractions from training/meditative states but of course the signal itself is alot more clear. We've been thinking of ways of integrating haptic feedback and visual (through the closed eyes, as Les Fehmi uses) to the protocols. BioExplorer has a module named "Haptic Feedback" but no idea how it works. However I would guess that rewarding on all major sensory-systems would proof as more effective especially when working with different people.

 

By the way, I've been working on some more advanced designs taking synchrony/deep states training to the next level and we're in the process of trying them out. Results are very promising so far, however it's hard to tell how "hard" is useful to train as we might push the brain just a little too hard. For example Gamma up-training in addition to Gamma+TADsync gave me some adverse effects and it might be due to rapid changes in brain physiology however the result is extreme as well, having more than 90% baseline gamma coherence across Fz-Pz now (actually trained it down now which felt weird knowing I'd basically be dumber after the training lol). 

 

What I'm trying to get at is that the more effective we get at training the more we should look into other relevant variables like brain physiology, neurotransmitters, inflammation, etc. and I'd love to get some more people on the boat that know alot about that kind of stuff. I guess the future looks more like putting a guy in a tank and having a whole team monitor various variables rather than us practicing in our basements alone. If we look at stuff like Biocybernaut the brain seems to be able to change ALOT in a short time and take alot of pressure over longer periods and stay functional however they only do Alpha (and Theta seperately) so there's not really any data on what happens if you put in really low and really high frequencies as well. Just makes me think of John C. Lilly who almost drowned several times while being paralysed on Ketamine in his tank, lol. You don't want to do similar things because you just met God and really freaked out.

 

By the way: Yes, deep-states training might be the most intuitive use for a tank, however things like calming the whole EEG activity to concentrate deeply on an object (like concentration meditation, for example as used by Opaque and umop with the Entropy designs) might do more for your cognition than any amout of beta/smr training. Also the tank might be a great surrounding to enter states of creativity/imagination/etc. I guess theta-gamma-sync would be an option here.

 

Either way: We should talk. Check your PM.

 

 

 

golgi1: Is there any research on the benefits of rewarding synchronous dephasing, more specifically what seems to be the desynchronization version of a phase reset? Unless I am misinterpreting what it is attempting to do. Though, being that bipolar training is explicitly a dephasing montage, I'm not sure how it could be attempting to do anything different.

 

Your thoughts on this seem to be the most likely assumption on what it does so far, however I still have no idea really and would love somebody to discuss this with Douglas. I believe that flexibility of any organism is always more useful in adaption than any rigid pattern, especially if that flexibility includes being rigid for an amount of time where it might be useful. Looking at the brain we see that for different purposes it has to show very different patterns. Our baseline scores like resting EEG EO/EC might give us some (correlative) information on what it will do during various complex task (or what it is capable of) but do not really tell us anything specific. However, I would always want to train my brain to behave the most flexible way possible which would include being able to produce huge global synchronies as well as very efficiently de-syncing to carry out other tasks. So if this was actually training synchronized de-syncing of various bands that sounds like a very efficient way of switching to another task: they do it at the same time so in order to go back into synchrony with each other very quickly. Another layer would now be to as well train the ability to jump out of sync here as well whenever that might be needed so as to train various disciplines. I was thinking of a design that rewards peaks and lows in coherence and uptrains the standard deviation of the coherence score in order to raise flexibility. However I might be completely off here so any further research into this is very welcome.

Edited by VastEmptiness, 24 July 2015 - 05:02 PM.

[Bobity]

@Crowstream the pump / heater are the weakest part of tank plumbing,  particularly if the water is chlorinated as mine is - chlorine is highly corrosive,  but ensures I do not have any unwelcome visitors like Legionnaires Disease.  I’ve been through a number of pumps / heaters and I’m currently using a AllPondSolutions 3000PP pump which cost £30 – this has been successfully pumping 24x7 for well over two years – apart from when I’m in the tank.   I also a 250 watt aquarium heater set in an expansion tank to keep the water about 36 Centigrade.  Took a bit of searching to find one that goes up so high – fish don’t like it so warm.

 

I bought some underwater ear buds from a company called h2oaudio for listening to Iawake / Holosync stuff while in the tank.  Mostly I prefer silence however.

 

On tank nfb was thinking a tight fitting swimming cap with Vaseline over the electrodes may work.  I’d have to get some longer eeg leads as the ones I got from Douglas are only ½ metre and would not reach down into my tank – the tank is underground – to get rid of noise.

 

The main issue I have with doing eeg in the tank is getting the thresholds right – you’d really need a trainer outside of the tank to set/alter thresholds,  although a few attempts could set this right.

 

On a slightly different tack I’ve been experimenting with doing nfb while driving.  I do a 170 mile round trip once a week along motorway  and thought it would be interesting to try some TAGsync on the trip.  It takes a few stops to get the thresholds right but then its very good – like it a lot.  The road surface makes a difference to the amount of artifact – Tarmac is much better than concrete..  

[Ames]

 

 

 

golgi1: Is there any research on the benefits of rewarding synchronous dephasing, more specifically what seems to be the desynchronization version of a phase reset? Unless I am misinterpreting what it is attempting to do. Though, being that bipolar training is explicitly a dephasing montage, I'm not sure how it could be attempting to do anything different.

 

Your thoughts on this seem to be the most likely assumption on what it does so far, however I still have no idea really and would love somebody to discuss this with Douglas. I believe that flexibility of any organism is always more useful in adaption than any rigid pattern, especially if that flexibility includes being rigid for an amount of time where it might be useful. Looking at the brain we see that for different purposes it has to show very different patterns. Our baseline scores like resting EEG EO/EC might give us some (correlative) information on what it will do during various complex task (or what it is capable of) but do not really tell us anything specific. However, I would always want to train my brain to behave the most flexible way possible which would include being able to produce huge global synchronies as well as very efficiently de-syncing to carry out other tasks. So if this was actually training synchronized de-syncing of various bands that sounds like a very efficient way of switching to another task: they do it at the same time so in order to go back into synchrony with each other very quickly. Another layer would now be to as well train the ability to jump out of sync here as well whenever that might be needed so as to train various disciplines. I was thinking of a design that rewards peaks and lows in coherence and uptrains the standard deviation of the coherence score in order to raise flexibility. However I might be completely off here so any further research into this is very welcome.

 

 

I have some new insight, which confirms the claims of some research to which I will later link.

 

In Neurofeedback and State Regulation in ADHD (2010), Van den Bergh (M.D.), in a synthesis of Othmer research, states that bipolar training challenges the phase regulating mechanism.

 

He refers to bipolar neurofeedback as "challenge" neurofeedback because, instead of uptraining frequency phase coherence and amplitude directly with operant conditioning, the training acts to desynchronize phase between a frequency at two 10-20 placements in order to ultimately stimulate an adaptive rebound effect and a resultant increase in coherence.

 

He claims that bipolar training challenges the brain to change its behavior in a more complex manner than does monopolar training, and hypothesizes that is why the effects are felt more immediately.

 

"Othmer emphasized that the search for a specific narrow reward frequency band entails rewarding an antiphase mechanism at that EEG frequency. Consequently, the phase mechanism is challenged and strengthened (Van den Bergh, p.177)".

 

With bipolar ILF, "the amplitude is maximal in antiphase (Van den Bergh, p.178)". 

 

Thus, it appears that the desyncrhonization effect of bipolar training is merely another training method toward synchronization. Though, I'm not sure how this resolves with the seemingly common claim that bipolar training promotes regional independence in the brain. It does, but apparently only passingly until brain communication reorganizes in response.

 

Though, perhaps the brief period of decoherence does create a better flexibility for local independence when it is appropriate. In other words, perhaps it allows the brain a more flexible 'choice' of cycling in and out of coherence when it is most appropriately adaptive to do so. This is hypothesis. As it stands, all I can discern from Van den Bergh's discussion is that bipolar training promotes coherence through a differing training approach.

 

I would be confident in hypothesizing that the overall quality of the coherence will be different, though not necessarily better or worse, than what is attained through monopolar training. The different training method likely leads toward a different type of reorganization toward roughly the same measured result, and so I would be hesitant to assume that attaining roughly the same coherence metrics through both types of training would give the exact same qualitative / felt result. 

 

Importantly in my mind, Van den Bergh goes on to mention that Othmer acknowledges that the challenge model (bipolar training) can come with limitations posed on the neurofeedback training by the brain and, because of this, monopolar training may act as a necessary compliment to bipolar training.

 

Without digging into the Othmer research that he was specifically referencing (he doesn't cite it), my interpretation of this is that he and Othmer are referencing the fact that a challenge/rebound 'learning' model is likely inherently limited (yet probably immensely effective within its limits - my note)  due to the inherent limitation on the amount of dephasing 'stress' that can be induced toward an optimal rebound toward coherence. The challenge model reminds me of weightlifting, that is the desired result seems to be attained through response to a primarily physical stress (albeit a stress that is induced through operant conditioning), wherein the operant conditioning model (or perhaps it is better to frame it as the 'direct operant conditioning model') is reward and punishment based learning. Differing cognitive pathways for roughly the same adaptive result on paper. 

 

In weight lifting, though I know that the analogy is not perfect, there is always a stress-response curve that limits the adaptive response and that determines that a stressor begins to have diminishing returns once certain limits of volume or duration are exceeded. This limits the amount of muscle (a learning rebound response to physical stress) that the organism will produce. To much volume or frequency of challenge (weight stress) will actually diminish the learned/adaptive response (muscle). Thus, there are specific limits to both the stress and the adaptive response. I would not assume, but would not be surprised, that the same limits exist for bipolar nfb. That being said, my intuition is that any possible attained adaptive effect within the training method would be quite robust and, as I before stated, unique in its underlying adaptive effect.

 

So, TAGx1 is merely a way to synchrony via another training method. Though, the dual frequency 'antiphase phase reset' reward will be much less frequent than in single frequency range ILF training. I'm still not sure, without research confirmation, that, given the rebound mechanism, that dual frequency antiphase training will cause phase resets. 

 

Below is the paper that I glanced at, that mentioned a rebound effect  before I read the relevant Van der Bergh chapter. However, surprise! They used monopolar training and the desired benefit still was a result of a rebound effect. 

 

Plastic Modulation of PTSD resting state networks by EEG Neurofeedback

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24266644

 

Results - Alpha desynchronizing neurofeedback was accosicate with decreased alpha during training, followed by a significant increase ('rebound') in resting state alpha synchronization. This rebound was linked to increased calmness, greater salience network connectivity with the right insula, and enhanced default mode network connectivity with the bilateral posterior cingulate, right middle front gyrus, and left medial front cortex

 

 

I'm not sure what this means for what we are attempting to do, but I submit that some what it does mean is that a rebound effect will also happen in the opposite direction. That is, if I reward alpha for instance, I may be in for at least a brief rebound effect in the direction that I do not want it. Is this why I have had a tendency toward crushing anxiety the day after TAGSync? I'm not sure, and it could be coincidence thusfar, but the appropriate use of downtraining and uptraining methodology should be evaluated for monopolar montages, and this should be compared with bipolar training results, toward achieving the best long term training goal with the least side effects. I don't know which model will meet the best standard, and maybe both will.

Edited by golgi1, 25 July 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[lourdaud]

Hey guys, I'd like to check with you before I give up on neurofeedback for good.
I've tried different types of training now (SMR, TAGSync) and I see nothing but theta. I tried doing SMR training the other day and the only time the bar moved above 4 - 7 Hz was when I blinked or moved my eye brows.
What do you think, might any other type of training suit me better? ILF?

[Matty72]

 

@Eratosthenes

 

That is extremely interesting, I had no idea that Gunkelman was into float tanks also... NFB and float tanks are some of my main intrests  . I have the new Zen Float tent but the pump and heating system keeps breaking down for me (faulty GFCIs I think), they say they are working on a new upgrade to fix those problems but until then I dont think I can use my tank  . I have been thinking about how to record the EEG in the water, I have not come up with any clear solution so far, Gunkelman mentions using glue and petroleum jelly but that sounds kind of nasty hehe, he also mentions new dry electrodes and that sounds a lot more promising, I wonder if it would work with the Q-wiz and bioexplorer setup though... Maybe we can figure out a way to hack it somehow, if anyone has ideas on that I am highly interested, I think it would be very useful for consciousness research.

 

I have already found out that you can buy underwater headphones and such so that should not be a problem, maybe speakers can be used too but the sound might become a bit distorted if your ears are under water, perhaps if you saturate the water with enough salt your ears could float above the water line, I am not sure really. Some people use float pillows that could perhaps keep the ears above water and then it would be ok to use speakers I think which would be a bit easier.

 

I think the float tank probably makes it a whole lot easier to enter the theta state, I think I have had that happen to me in the tank but no way of knowing for sure without recording the EEG. I have been thinking about what kind of NFB setups to use, perhaps it could be a feedback signal that activates when you are out of the theta state, and it guides you back to it and then becomes silent as long as you remain there, that way it would not be so disturbing and would only activate when needed, eventually perhaps you would learn how to access this state so well that feedback would hardly be needed any more.

 

I was actually in attendance at the 2014 Float Conference.  In regards to the points that you make firstly regarding audio, there are waterproof headphones available, I know of one US football team that sends its players to float at the establishment of a customer of ours in the US (I sell float tanks for a living) and they come in with i-pods and listen to bespoke hypnotic/ suggestive scripts configured by their psychologists whilst floating using waterproof headphones.

 

What you'll find with a lot of float tanks, built for commercial use, is that they have speakers built into them, they're actually transducers and so the body of the tank I think acts as the amp and water is a reasonably good conductor of sound, so you can listen to stuff through that way with ears under the water line(actually better that way), and you can certainly listen to and understand guided meditations etc although not sure if any distortion would compromise feedback, I guess silent reward would be less of a problem but if sound is ongoing feedback I guess your brain has to be able to understand the subtleties involved. There were some float tanks in the 80s that had inbuilt video screens in the ceiling of the tank, but the available videos tended to be fairly limited to things like weight loss and how to improve you golf swing

 

In regards to the electrodes, I know that a very well resourced, government agency of a not to be named country had solicited the production of a waterproof, wireless electro cap for use with their personnel in float tanks.

 

Not sure how that has progressed but there is a wireless electro cap available, called g.Nautilus, but I can't imagine that it would just work in water.

 

I'm assuming that the salt solution of a float tank (with it being Epsom salt of course) would be a good electrical conductor, so I wonder if that could provide challenges in regards to getting feedback from the specific site you want only.

 

I was contacted a couple of years back by a guy in the US that made and sold float tanks in the 80s, he told me that they ran a heap of research on brain wave states of people floating, so presumably they found a way to do it (perhaps I could try to find his contact details and shoot him an email), he was most excited by the delta behaviour, he seemed to be saying that it replicated what's only seen (if you're lucky) during a very small timeframe of sleep. (this maybe why the misleading statement that one hour of floating is equivalent to 8 hours sleep is bandied about).

 

Almost everyone involved in floatation also mention that floating puts people into a theta state, always slightly concerns me, but I guess it's pretty similar to Alpha-Theta training in that regard. I know of a couple of people that have had OOB experiences whilst floating and said they were looking down on themselves in the tank, so that would certainly be interesting phenomena to capture on EEG.

 

I've been speaking to a guy in Czech Republic who is a software developer who has a strong interest in feedback devices and he's interested in creating products to be used whilst floating, I'm not sure of the practicalities but he certainly seemed to think that HRV would be easy  he also wanted to incorporate video and EEG but I said how are you going to do that, so he's having a think about it. 

 

Interesting to hear abut your experience with Zen Float Tents, we've had the idea for many years to try to provide a low cost home use product but nowhere near the price they can do, and we did wonder about the ability of using critical components (pump and heater) that are reliable at that price, the pump that we use in our pods costs almost half the sale price of the Zen Tent, to put it in perspective. A lot of the reviews seem pretty good but I wondered if the way to look at it was almost with a sense of disposability and the expectation that even if they're replaced every couple of years it's still a solid low cost option.

[Healthy Frank]

Hello all, i will soon get my q-wiz and tag-sync. happy to join the adventure

[mentat]

Does anyone here use anything other than the Q-Wiz or U-Wiz...i'm looking in some more cost effective solutions like the products from https://openbci.mysh...8-bit-board-kit. Since im planning on buying a kit really soon and finally transforming from a lurker to a contributer to this phenomenal thread id like to hear the opinion and or experience from people here who have used it or seen it in action. More specifically: does it work with bioexplorer? Will it be able to load tagSync even if there is another program than bioexplorer in use? Im hoping to get some clarity from you guys.

[Healthy Frank]

For anyone interested, I've completed 18 sessions of Neuroptimal and plan on doing 30 total (i have rental) so far results have been good (lower anxiety) but Im turning to Tag Sync for deeper change

[Ames]

Hey guys, I'd like to check with you before I give up on neurofeedback for good.
I've tried different types of training now (SMR, TAGSync) and I see nothing but theta. I tried doing SMR training the other day and the only time the bar moved above 4 - 7 Hz was when I blinked or moved my eye brows.
What do you think, might any other type of training suit me better? ILF?

 

It should be measuring the amplitude of SMR or any other frequency for feedback, not the frequency range. The software does measure the total frequency range and the amplitudes at all frequencies, but since you will have all frequencies in all locations, which you can often view in graphic form in many of the designs, what you are attempting to affect in the feedback process is the amplitude of any one frequency. You should be getting at least some signal when the bandpass filter is set to filter SMR, for instance, which is then shown in an amplitude bin for feedback purposes. If you are getting no amplitude reading for Beta,SMR,Alpha,Theta, or Delta as appropriate, then I would look into problems with electrode attachment or maybe even your amplifier. Are you prepping the surface and using 10-20 paste? Do you have the ground and reference electrodes attached? Is the software showing working channels from your amplifier? Is the DC offset on? Do you have the design switched to the correct "instruments" page under the "Window" heading in the menu bar? I'd make sure everything is set up well before you give up.

 

It definitely isn't that you aren't suited for the training, at least in terms of the software not reading your signal. I think that you only need to find whatever is causing a bad signal or it to be misread.

Edited by golgi1, 25 July 2015 - 09:56 PM.

[DonManley]

So do we have any hero who has the design and is willing to install BrainBay and port the design object-by-object element-by-element? The plan is to use the same sample data in both programs. BrainBay has a session format .bxs. There is a tool bxstoedf which converts .bxs format to .edf. Edf is a standard and is supported by a variety of applications including BrainBay. By using the same session data we can ensure that designs are identical (same input = same output).

 

Some people mentioned here tweaking their designs. Are you willing to share your modified designs?

 

Also, do you guys record your session data so that it can be further analyzed later if needed? We could just all agree to share our data and progress (open source our eeg/ekg data so to speak). Each person shares his/her sessions as they progress. Then interested people can use that data for science and fun. It will make minimal effort. If you guys want I can even write a simple app that monitors a directory and uploads data automatically once you save session data to a folder. Neurofeedback is a unique opportunity to contribute to the open-data movement.

[Bobity]

@golg1 the crushing anxiety you mention the day following TAGsync training - I experience intervals of this during TAGsync training, which correspond to a sudden rise in Beta, which I'm inhibiting. This mostly hapoens eyes closed.

[VastEmptiness]

Does anyone here use anything other than the Q-Wiz or U-Wiz...i'm looking in some more cost effective solutions like the products from https://openbci.mysh...8-bit-board-kit. Since im planning on buying a kit really soon and finally transforming from a lurker to a contributer to this phenomenal thread id like to hear the opinion and or experience from people here who have used it or seen it in action. More specifically: does it work with bioexplorer? Will it be able to load tagSync even if there is another program than bioexplorer in use? Im hoping to get some clarity from you guys.

 

I would be really interested in how to get this to work in order to create a 32 channel synchrony and assessment setup. so getting a cap to work with it and one of the major softwares would be a blessing. even if it was alot of fiddling, you could probably even pay somebody to do it and still be at lower cost than the q-wiz.

 

however, as far as i know bioexplorer isn't developed anymore and doesn't support the BCI as of now. look into the other platforms that support TAGsync like BioEra (which is cool because it runs on android for more mobile setups). also probably any other platform than bioexplorer would be much more smooth to create complex designs simply because it doesn't support copy&paste or macros.

 

how do current users of openbci solve this? or do they all do brain-to-computer-interfaces rather than biofeedback?

 

edit: the opensource "modular eeg" seems to work with bioexplorer on an updated driver. so maybe there would be a way to get openbci going with it as well if you know some coding. 
http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/sw/

Edited by VastEmptiness, 26 July 2015 - 05:09 PM.

[VastEmptiness]

So do we have any hero who has the design and is willing to install BrainBay and port the design object-by-object element-by-element? The plan is to use the same sample data in both programs. BrainBay has a session format .bxs. There is a tool bxstoedf which converts .bxs format to .edf. Edf is a standard and is supported by a variety of applications including BrainBay. By using the same session data we can ensure that designs are identical (same input = same output).

 

Some people mentioned here tweaking their designs. Are you willing to share your modified designs?

 

Also, do you guys record your session data so that it can be further analyzed later if needed? We could just all agree to share our data and progress (open source our eeg/ekg data so to speak). Each person shares his/her sessions as they progress. Then interested people can use that data for science and fun. It will make minimal effort. If you guys want I can even write a simple app that monitors a directory and uploads data automatically once you save session data to a folder. Neurofeedback is a unique opportunity to contribute to the open-data movement.

I cannot really follow you. You want to create a TAGsync design in BrainBay? What equipment are you using? OpenBCI by any chance? The .edf would be for the recordings though not the designs, right?

 

I'm all for collecting data specifically comparisons from early sessions to very advanced ones. The people i talk to see huge changes in meditation EEG over time and it would be interesting to find out other correlations than just higher coherence etc. - Crow and I can both report a much stronger Alpha amplitude EC and a lower Alpha peak. I specifically did some work on some records of mine where I entered extremely deep states and they show an interesting pattern of strong rise in coherence followed by a massive drop in Alpha peak (and 1-12 peak, same thing) so either the alpha wave drops down low or there is a massive amount of theta (cannot really read raw waves so no idea, but i would guess its alpha itself). As a result of this I'm looking into doing more low-Alpha training, learning to control amplitude in 4 distant sites and really ramp up coherence/phase-relation to then go back into training TAGsync but now slave every other synchronous band to the frontal low alpha (could be Fz, but i might look through some papers to find another master site). However it would be nice to see other peoples data to confirm, so far it's really n=2 and some papers.

Edited by VastEmptiness, 26 July 2015 - 06:41 PM.

[DonManley]

 

Does anyone here use anything other than the Q-Wiz or U-Wiz...i'm looking in some more cost effective solutions like the products from https://openbci.mysh...8-bit-board-kit. Since im planning on buying a kit really soon and finally transforming from a lurker to a contributer to this phenomenal thread id like to hear the opinion and or experience from people here who have used it or seen it in action. More specifically: does it work with bioexplorer? Will it be able to load tagSync even if there is another program than bioexplorer in use? Im hoping to get some clarity from you guys.

 

I would be really interested in how to get this to work in order to create a 32 channel synchrony and assessment setup. so getting a cap to work with it and one of the major softwares would be a blessing. even if it was alot of fiddling, you could probably even pay somebody to do it and still be at lower cost than the q-wiz.

 

however, as far as i know bioexplorer isn't developed anymore and doesn't support the BCI as of now. look into the other platforms that support TAGsync like BioEra (which is cool because it runs on android for more mobile setups). also probably any other platform than bioexplorer would be much more smooth to create complex designs simply because it doesn't support copy&paste or macros.

 

how do current users of openbci solve this? or do they all do brain-to-computer-interfaces rather than biofeedback?

 

edit: the opensource "modular eeg" seems to work with bioexplorer on an updated driver. so maybe there would be a way to get openbci going with it as well if you know some coding. 
http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/sw/

 

 

I have openBCI and thus I have to either port designs to BrainBay myself or to wait until somebody else does it. I don't know much about it, so I'm starting slow. At first I want to design HRV training (hopefully with the help of more seasoned people on NeuroBB or here). So, right now I'm fiddling with HRV.

 

Then, I might bite the bullet and try to port some EEG designs.

 

In my previous post, I mentioned that using the same input / session we hopefully be able ensure that the design in BrainBay has the same effect as an analogous design in BioExplorer. This is why I want to use same recordings for both programs. This way we can compare two designs against the same input. The recordings are in different formats (.bxs vs .edf), so they have to be converted between programs. Designs unfortunately can't be converted automatically and people will have to convert them by hand.

 

I think for other people it will be also beneficial to move away from BioExplorer. As you mentioned yourself, it's not actively supported. Here is also somebody on an OpenVibe forum talking about it:

 

 

BioExplorer has practically no technical support from Larry Janow, the creator of BE. Larry has recently released a new version, something that was long overdue. You are unlikely to get any emails answered and for this reason I would suggest that you buy it through a reputable reseller like brain-trainer or some others, rather than trying to place your order via cyberevolution directly. There is a demo version available, so you can try it out first.

So why my recommendation if the support is non-existing? Well, to do NFB you need a EEG amp and software… but there is a third thing that is required – NFB training protocols. If you understand the brain and new exactly how you wanted to train it, you could create your own protocols. But NFB is a rather complex field that takes months, if not years to master. There are many ready designed training protocols available for BioExplorer. Some, you may get for free but many you unfortunately have to buy. BE ships with some examples. Pieter van Deusen runs the brain-trainer yahoo group and he specifically, but also many of his group members, are very, very helpful. This help is for both the technical BioExplorer issues, as well as training issues.

 

Currently, the barrier that prevents many people from doing neurofeedback is still the high cost. From the hardware side, OpenBCI reduces the cost significantly. BioExplorer costs as much as additional openBCI board. From the software side, we can minimize the cost to zero by using open source alternatives like BrainBay.

 

I'm not aware of any limitations of BrainBay. It's more actively developed and it is a lot more hackable and modifiable than BioExplorer. It's only problem is the lack of designs. But designs can be ported (manually).

 

OpenBCI will evolve a lot faster than other alternative hardware. 32 channels on openBCI is somewhat possible (http://openbci.com/f...4/24-32-channel). Based on the lack of development of BioExplorer I doubt that it will add support for hardware like openBCI in near future.

 

With lower cost, we can have more channels. With more channels, we can potentially use more sophisticated biofeedback techniques. For example, we could combine biofeedback with LORETA (a technique to triangulate the exact place in the brain in 3D where the signal is coming from). This is something that some companies already do:

 

 

Using a full 19 sensor array, we are able to create a 3-D functional map of the brain; directly targeting and training the brain's deep "control sites" that traditional neurofeedback is unable to reach. We are able to train region-specific activity, entire brain networks, coherence (how one brain area works with another), processing speed and phase; all crucial factors in optimum brain functioning. 

 

This highly targeted training delivers significant improvements in a much reduced period of time. [Source] [More Info]

 

 

Considering that openBCI has python bindings and python has one of the most powerful scientific stacks, it will be possible to do pretty much anything imaginable with enough time and effort.

Edited by DonManley, 26 July 2015 - 07:10 PM.

[Bobity]

@Eratosthenes, @Matty72 & others - Do any of you have any idea which eeg sites Gunkelman was using ?  I’ve found some long eeg leads and a seemingly waterproof swimming hat for experimenting with nfb in the tank.

[VastEmptiness]

@Eratosthenes, @Matty72 & others - Do any of you have any idea which eeg sites Gunkelman was using ?  I’ve found some long eeg leads and a seemingly waterproof swimming hat for experimenting with nfb in the tank.

 

I think he said Oz and it's also mentioned in his powerpoint. Definitely was something in the back of the head. Peter VD recommends training Theta/Alpha at O1 or P4 so there seems to be a reason for back of the head.

 

@Don: Are you using 16 Channel BCI? We can talk about the design transferring however depending on what amount of designs you want transfered it will be a shitload of work doing that. I don't know BrainBay, but will look into it. Hope it has Copy&Paste. The lack of it makes the creation of things like 16 channel designs pretty much impossible in BioExplorer. Feels like working with a Windows 95 program overall. And yes, paying 400$ for a program that isn't developed anymore and needs a dongle that you might loose or stop working is kind of 90's as well. However so far I'd recommend it to anyone due to the support of the whole brain-trainer approach which turns out to be just excellent. The TLC7_QEEG alone has teached me so much. It's by far the most cost-effective training option for pretty much any symptom/goal while still leaving you the room to make decisions on training (which automated systems don't). You def. have a point there - would like to see how good signals etc is. I could probably build any of the designs I'm using myself by now and actually I'm mostly training with my own designs (which all started as mockups).

Edited by VastEmptiness, 26 July 2015 - 10:29 PM.

[Eratosthenes]

@Eratosthenes, @Matty72 & others - Do any of you have any idea which eeg sites Gunkelman was using ?  I’ve found some long eeg leads and a seemingly waterproof swimming hat for experimenting with nfb in the tank.

 

According to his slides, the active electrode was at Pz, with ground and reference at the mastoid. Since the tech was very primitive back then, I’m guessing they were just measuring amplitude alone.

 

See the slide at https://www.youtube....LOoKU0#t=21m13s

 

But there's no reason to limit yourself just to what Gunkelman did. Our tech is much more advanced today, you can train any design you have or can build. I, for one, would be really interested in what you experience by doing orthodox TAG2X at Fz and Pz (though I personally prefer a continuous reward to the silent reward, a silent reward might work very well in the tank.)

 

Also orthodox Alpha/Theta would be very interesting too. VastEmptiness mentions that Pete van Deusen uses O1 or P4 for this. The Othmers do 1-channel A/T training at Pz referenced to A2 (either mastoid or ear lobe works.) They do 2-channel sum A/T training at P3 and P4 as follows: Channel 1 is P3 referenced to A1, Channel 2 is P4 referenced to A2, the ground goes anywhere on the head, not touching any of the other electrodes. Channel 1 + Channel 2 = P3 + P4 (if A1 and A2 are very small, as should be the case). Reward alpha at 10 Hz and theta at 7 Hz.

 

Also, as Matty72 points out, the salt solution is a good conductor so to be sure you've solved that problem, I'd record my EEG outside the tank, lying down, eyes closed tying to mimic the tank environment as much as possible, then record inside the tank and compare the two recordings to see that they are similar. If they're very different, you're signal is something other than pure EEG and doing NFB is probably a waste of time. Gunkelman mentioned sealing the electrode sites with petroleum jelly, I'm guessing this isolates the electrodes from the conductivity of the water, though I'm not 100% sure. Double check this with someone who is before actually doing this.

 

How are you are you going to hear the feedback sounds? Waterproof headphones or speakers or something else?

 

And finally, I hate to sound like a neurotic nanna, but please make sure you are safe with this. I been shocked by electricity twice in my life and it can really suck. If you have any engineer or electrician friends have them take a look at your setup. I'm not an electrician, electrical engineer, etc, so listen to someone who is and do what they tell you to do, even if it costs you some money to pay them. You (and anyone else reading this) are responsible for your own safety, so be smart about it.

 

If you get this to work, I'm super interested in hearing your results.

[Sebster]

Hello everyone!

 

I´m thinking of getting a HEG-headset to enhance the TAG-sync but have some questions regarding it.

1. Is it worth the investment? (it seems like it as Andrew Hill speaks highly about it)

2. Which one should I get if so, nIR or pIR? 

3. I´m planning on getting it from brain-trainer.com which software would I need to get started? (I have bioexplorer and a q-wiz)

4. What is the most efficent way to use it, before or after a TAG or other NFB protocols?

 

 

And I´m sorry if these question has been asked before, I really couldn´t find any good answers.on this.

 

/sebster 

 

Edited by Sebster, 27 July 2015 - 08:18 AM.

[VastEmptiness]

Hello everyone!

 

I´m thinking of getting a HEG-headset to enhance the TAG-sync but have some questions regarding it.

1. Is it worth the investment? (it seems like it as Andrew Hill speaks highly about it)

2. Which one should I get if so, nIR or pIR? 

3. I´m planning on getting it from brain-trainer.com which software would I need to get started? (I have bioexplorer and a q-wiz)

4. What is the most efficent way to use it, before or after a TAG or other NFB protocols?

 

 

And I´m sorry if these question has been asked before, I really couldn´t find any good answers.on this.

 

/sebster 

 

1. Would still recommend it to anybody who has 500$ and uses his brain from time to time.

2. Doing good with nIR. There seems to be minor differences in results to various conditions.

3. HEG Life from brain-trainer can be used in BioExplorer
4. I'd use it in the morning, can feel like a cup of coffee, never before bed therefore. Make sure not to overtrain. TAGsync can be anytime for me, tend to do evenings. Most intense sessions seem to happen at night (Melatonin release, Circadian Cycles and Earths magnetic field seem to influence things like Theta spikes/Visions, read some paper on it. There's a reason psychedelic rituals are done at night.)

For some more discussion on HEG look here:
http://www.longecity...feedback/page-5
http://www.longecity...scussion/page-7

And yes, the thread is a mess to look through.

Edited by VastEmptiness, 27 July 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[Healthy Frank]

Hello all, i'd like to know anyone's thought on releasing muscle tension and which protocol you think is best for this. I've read here about people experiencing releases of tension with Tag but am just curious. I believe the root of tension is probably trauma but im not sure lemme know what you think!

[Bobity]

 

@Eratosthenes, @Matty72 & others - Do any of you have any idea which eeg sites Gunkelman was using ?  I’ve found some long eeg leads and a seemingly waterproof swimming hat for experimenting with nfb in the tank.

 

According to his slides, the active electrode was at Pz, with ground and reference at the mastoid. Since the tech was very primitive back then, I’m guessing they were just measuring amplitude alone.

 

See the slide at https://www.youtube....LOoKU0#t=21m13s

 

But there's no reason to limit yourself just to what Gunkelman did. Our tech is much more advanced today, you can train any design you have or can build. I, for one, would be really interested in what you experience by doing orthodox TAG2X at Fz and Pz (though I personally prefer a continuous reward to the silent reward, a silent reward might work very well in the tank.)

 

Also orthodox Alpha/Theta would be very interesting too. VastEmptiness mentions that Pete van Deusen uses O1 or P4 for this. The Othmers do 1-channel A/T training at Pz referenced to A2 (either mastoid or ear lobe works.) They do 2-channel sum A/T training at P3 and P4 as follows: Channel 1 is P3 referenced to A1, Channel 2 is P4 referenced to A2, the ground goes anywhere on the head, not touching any of the other electrodes. Channel 1 + Channel 2 = P3 + P4 (if A1 and A2 are very small, as should be the case). Reward alpha at 10 Hz and theta at 7 Hz.

 

Also, as Matty72 points out, the salt solution is a good conductor so to be sure you've solved that problem, I'd record my EEG outside the tank, lying down, eyes closed tying to mimic the tank environment as much as possible, then record inside the tank and compare the two recordings to see that they are similar. If they're very different, you're signal is something other than pure EEG and doing NFB is probably a waste of time. Gunkelman mentioned sealing the electrode sites with petroleum jelly, I'm guessing this isolates the electrodes from the conductivity of the water, though I'm not 100% sure. Double check this with someone who is before actually doing this.

 

How are you are you going to hear the feedback sounds? Waterproof headphones or speakers or something else?

 

And finally, I hate to sound like a neurotic nanna, but please make sure you are safe with this. I been shocked by electricity twice in my life and it can really suck. If you have any engineer or electrician friends have them take a look at your setup. I'm not an electrician, electrical engineer, etc, so listen to someone who is and do what they tell you to do, even if it costs you some money to pay them. You (and anyone else reading this) are responsible for your own safety, so be smart about it.

 

If you get this to work, I'm super interested in hearing your results.

 

 

@Eratosthenes appreciate the response & the concern.  I've had a couple of shocks in the past and will take care.  This seems too good an opportunity to miss.  I will keep you updated with my progress here,  although I'm not going to be able to do much 'till the coming weekend.

 

I've got some h2audio ear buds which work well under water - I've used them in the tank many times with no problem.  I've also ordered a silica swiimming hat which I intend to use having lined the perimeter of my head where it fits with vaseline to help ensure a good watertight seal all round and also have the eeg leads coming out via my forehead - which is always above water in the tank,  so there is less opportunity for salty water to follow the path of the leads back in.   

Edited by Bobity, 28 July 2015 - 06:26 AM.

[Bobity]

Hello all, i'd like to know anyone's thought on releasing muscle tension and which protocol you think is best for this. I've read here about people experiencing releases of tension with Tag but am just curious. I believe the root of tension is probably trauma but im not sure lemme know what you think!

 

@HF I've found using HRV - emwave2 along with TAGsyncx2 &/or SMR%1C @ C3/Cz/C4 excellent for very deep relaxation.  Wheather or not this works for muscle tension I don't know.  What I do find find amazing is having immediate neuro feedback and being able to use the breath with the HRV feedback to go deeper is like getting access to another dimension of relaxation. 

[Ames]

Does anyone have any thoughts on affecting delay through threshold settings?

 

Brain Trainer designs are all set to as low a delay as possible, which tends to be '0' in the threshold setting in addition to whatever the bandpass delay is set to (often around 280ms), and as a result the threshold graph for me is much too fast and choppy. In his Technical FAQ, Pete mentions a desire and mandate to have the delay as low as possible but I'm not sure how one trains when the graph is so choppy and fast. I notice that the TAGx2 delay, meaning the combined bandpass and threshold delay, is around 1200-1500 ms; which Pete would likely find to be too much in theory. The speed is ideal to my eye in the TAGSync design, and I am tempted to set the threshold delay in the Brain Trainer designs to what I feel is a smooth enough amplitude graph. That would probably entail adding anywhere from 500-2000 ms in the threshold, depending on the frequency.

 

How do the Brain Trainer Design amplitude graphs look to you at the default settings, and did you alter the delay? Do you feel that adding delay in the bandpass filter or the threshold is the same? Do you think it has a significant affect on training? Does anyone train in the choppy and fast setting?

 

I can't find much sold direction for this online, other than Pete's opinion in his FAQ.

 

Edited by golgi1, 31 July 2015 - 07:04 AM.

[Ames]

@golg1 the crushing anxiety you mention the day following TAGsync training - I experience intervals of this during TAGsync training, which correspond to a sudden rise in Beta, which I'm inhibiting. This mostly hapoens eyes closed.

 

Thanks. I definitely don't mean to imply that I am certain that it is from the training, either. I have anxiety regardless, and it could have been coincidence. I will keep an eye on the beta, which I have inhibited according to the 1/f curve.

[Ames]

Hello everyone!

 

I´m thinking of getting a HEG-headset to enhance the TAG-sync but have some questions regarding it.

1. Is it worth the investment? (it seems like it as Andrew Hill speaks highly about it)

2. Which one should I get if so, nIR or pIR? 

3. I´m planning on getting it from brain-trainer.com which software would I need to get started? (I have bioexplorer and a q-wiz)

4. What is the most efficent way to use it, before or after a TAG or other NFB protocols?

 

 

And I´m sorry if these question has been asked before, I really couldn´t find any good answers.on this.

 

/sebster 

 

I find it invaluable, but really only because I have a shaved head and can use it at any 10-20 (or other) position. My best position so far is anywhere over the occipital lobe. I've used it with up to 1 mm or so of hair (about 1 day of growth), but it takes noticeably longer to self-calibrate. I'd imagine that it wouldn't work well with hair much longer than that. I digress.

 

Pete at Brain Trainer will sing the praises of nIRHEG, or at least that's what he did to sell me in comparison to pIR, but as you noted others have different opinions. I like it for the above stated reasoning, and would likely find a pIR sensor more cumbersome in other locations. One nice thing about the nIR sensor is how light in weight and low profile it is. Though, if I were only going to train the PFC, I'd give the pIR sensor more consideration in light of Andrew Hill's opinion of it.

 

You'll need Brain Trainer's HEG designs, which come in its design package. I'm not sure if he sells them separately. I bought the LIFE game, which was good to teach me an active technique to raise bloodflow in my PFC, but for passive HEF neurofeedback without technique I prefer the video feedback HEG design.

 

You'll have to try it in different order and perhaps at different times of day to find your preferences for use.
 

[Bobity]

 

@golg1 the crushing anxiety you mention the day following TAGsync training - I experience intervals of this during TAGsync training, which correspond to a sudden rise in Beta, which I'm inhibiting. This mostly hapoens eyes closed.

 

Thanks. I definitely don't mean to imply that I am certain that it is from the training, either. I have anxiety regardless, and it could have been coincidence. I will keep an eye on the beta, which I have inhibited according to the 1/f curve.

 

 

I did not take it you meant it was from the training @golgg1.  The response was as much for me as I've found being able to link lots of Beta to the physical experience of anxiety,  which is for me a crucial key in resolving / dimishing such a perennial issue.      
 

[VastEmptiness]

Does anyone have any thoughts on affecting delay through threshold settings?

 

Brain Trainer designs are all set to as low a delay as possible, which tends to be '0' in the threshold setting in addition to whatever the bandpass delay is set to (often around 280ms), and as a result the threshold graph for me is much too fast and choppy. In his Technical FAQ, Pete mentions a desire and mandate to have the delay as low as possible but I'm not sure how one trains when the graph is so choppy and fast. I notice that the TAGx2 delay, meaning the combined bandpass and threshold delay, is around 1200-1500 ms; which Pete would likely find to be too much in theory. The speed is ideal to my eye in the TAGSync design, and I am tempted to set the threshold delay in the Brain Trainer designs to what I feel is a smooth enough amplitude graph. That would probably entail adding anywhere from 500-2000 ms in the threshold, depending on the frequency.

 

How do the Brain Trainer Design amplitude graphs look to you at the default settings, and did you alter the delay? Do you feel that adding delay in the bandpass filter or the threshold is the same? Do you think it has a significant affect on training? Does anyone train in the choppy and fast setting?

 

I can't find much sold direction for this online, other than Pete's opinion in his FAQ

 

I try to always have a 0s delay reward within the designs I train and adjust the treshholds to something that sounds nice. Sometimes that includes AND or OR modules to get a constant but distinguishable reward. So rule of thumb is instant and constant reward of what I want to train up/down. In addition I might add pad sounds etc. on things like trends/averages, but even them I try to keep close like say 250-500ms. I choose my settings based on what i know about learning theory/cybernetics and get great results with it.

- What do you mean by bandpass delay setting? Why would we want more delay than what the hardware offers?

- How did you calculate the TAGsync delay? Which subdesign? My TAGx4 is set to 0s on the AND ("phase reset") and like 250 or 500ms on the alpha-amplitude (linked to audio player volume).

 

I guess in a conscious design like TAGsync we can still train with one or two seconds of delay, but just the idea of it feels weird.

 

I find it invaluable, but really only because I have a shaved head and can use it at any 10-20 (or other) position. My best position so far is anywhere over the occipital lobe. I've used it with up to 1 mm or so of hair (about 1 day of growth), but it takes noticeably longer to self-calibrate. I'd imagine that it wouldn't work well with hair much longer than that. I digress. [...] but for passive HEF neurofeedback without technique I prefer the video feedback HEG design.

 

 

Oh wow, that's interesting. How did you end up training there, any material on it? And also can you give some instructions on passive HEG? How long do you train etc.? I actually tried top of head once with HEGlife but couldn't influence there. Do you use passive HEG on the head or even active? I've never heard of this but thought it would make sense to train bloodflow to the whole cortex. What do you think is the effect of HEG on EEG on various sites? Very excited, thanks for sharing.

[zensauce]

Is there a guide on how to set up Tagsyncx2 on brainmaster software? If not, would anybody be so kind as to provide one for me and others who may be interested? (I already purchased DD's designs for bioexplorer, but I now have a brainmaster unit and feel it runs better w/ brainmaster software than w/ bioexplorer)

[Ames]

 

I try to always have a 0s delay reward within the designs I train and adjust the treshholds to something that sounds nice. Sometimes that includes AND or OR modules to get a constant but distinguishable reward. So rule of thumb is instant and constant reward of what I want to train up/down. In addition I might add pad sounds etc. on things like trends/averages, but even them I try to keep close like say 250-500ms. I choose my settings based on what i know about learning theory/cybernetics and get great results with it.

- What do you mean by bandpass delay setting? Why would we want more delay than what the hardware offers?

- How did you calculate the TAGsync delay? Which subdesign? My TAGx4 is set to 0s on the AND ("phase reset") and like 250 or 500ms on the alpha-amplitude (linked to audio player volume).

 

I guess in a conscious design like TAGsync we can still train with one or two seconds of delay, but just the idea of it feels weird.

 

 

 

If you go into the properties for any bandpass filter, and look to the right at the graph, there is a tab marked "delay". Clicking on that will bring up a new graph that shows the initial delay in the bandpass filter (via graph) that the threshold delay is later added onto.

 

Adding both delay numbers will give the total delay. I'm not sure how to change the bandpass delay or if it is even possible, especially without altering the filter in other ways that I cannot predict, and at so this point personally I would only be comfortable in changing the threshold delay.

 

Theoretically, I wouldn't want to add more delay than is necessary. I can certainly add as much delay as I need in the threshold, but I am not sure how only adjusting it through the threshold might affect the signal differently than adjusting the delay in the bandpass filter (if possible). Maybe it doesn't matter, but I thought I'd ask in case anyone had any insight. Absent that, I will only adjust delay in the threshold.

 

I calculated the TAGX2 quiet reward delay by adding the threshold delay to the Bandpass filter delay for any single frequency. It is set at 500 ms in the threshold  for each reward frequency and from a round 700-1000 ms in the bandpass filter, if I am reading it right (I think that 1.0 = 1000 ms). So, for example, you would add 1000ms to 500ms to get the total delay.

 

Notice that in Pete's FAQ, he says that he tries to keep the delay to 250-ish milliseconds. However, when you go into his designs the threshold delay is at zero. The bandpass delay is what is around 250-280 ms and this is what he is referring to for his specific designs. I have to jack up the delay to equal what TAGSync uses, or more, to get his amplitutde bars to smooth out to what I currently percieve to be a reasonable and trainable pace. I am trying to determine if I have an electrode issue or if it is purely the designs. I have tried different placements for all electrodes, have checked impedance, and have reapplied NuPrep and 10-20 paste all to no different effect. TAGSync designs seem to work fine for me.
 

Oh wow, that's interesting. How did you end up training there, any material on it? And also can you give some instructions on passive HEG? How long do you train etc.? I actually tried top of head once with HEGlife but couldn't influence there. Do you use passive HEG on the head or even active? I've never heard of this but thought it would make sense to train bloodflow to the whole cortex. What do you think is the effect of HEG on EEG on various sites? Very excited, thanks for sharing.

 

 

 

I have a long standing problem with my eyes and optic nerve (vasocinstriction, inflammation, ischemia), in addition to felt intermittent ischemia along the entirety of the left hemisphere of my brain extending to my occipital lobe, and so training in that area was common sense for me. Vision is in the occipital lobe. The positive results were as expected, to include more felt resilience against stress in my eyes and brain in general, felt vasodilation in the occipital lobe, as well as enhanced sleep and dreams, and less need for sleep. Though, the first time that I trained there it put me to sleep pretty quickly.

 

While I had good local effects when training my PFC, and had noticeable but more subtle effects when training T3/T4, the occipital placement has so far been the best for me. The felt success may be specific to my condition or not. I cannot be sure. I plan on training F3/F4 and CZ, PZ, and FZ next. After that: P3/P4. I always leave at least one day (or more) in between training at new sites to best gauge the effect at any one site.

 

At my PFC, I tended to train until the man started to dive pretty consistently. Unless I was tired, that was around 8-10 minutes per site but I have a working theory that I might acutally get better results training at a strict 5 minutes even if no side effects are necessarily felt. I'm still hashing that out. At other sites, I have kept to a strict 5 minutes because I started to train passively and cannot feel the blood moving at the site. I think that it would be easier to overtrain without knowing it, and the side effects might be worse. In any case, 5 minutes per site is giving me good results.

 

What I mean by passive versus active training is whether or not I am trying to influence any type of brain state such as increased bloodflow to a specific brain location. In the LIFE game at any PFC location, I have to train actively to get the man to consistently climb. The reward apparently is not enough to stimulate significant passive adjustment by my brain. I tend to focus my eyes on a small distant dot, and using this technique I get consistent results. Occassionally, I can direct a small amount of blood to the front through conscious will, and will feel the blood moving. However, the distant focus technique works the best by far. However, I guess that I would have to ask if 'exercise' in the form of technique would bring the same neurocogntive results as change effected through reward? Maybe and maybe not.

 

Passive training is merely watching or listening for a reward with no conscious effort or technique to effect brain change. I think that this is the norm in nfb. However, I would submit that the more rewarding your brain finds the reward, the better the training results will be. With that in mind, I tend to cue up comedy videos on stop/start as my reward feedback. All I have to do is watch, and the results come. The most I ever do is concentrate on how funny I find the video, to reinforce the effect of the reward to my brain. I like videos with fast paced comedy for this, as the reward is rather constant rather than intermittent. Seth McFarlane cartoons, love or hate the milieu, are great for fast paced reward. So, my current routine for HEG training at 10-20 sites is merely to watch such a show in an audio-video HEG design for 5 minutes. I manually adjust the reward to be present around 80% of the time. It's painless. If you use a single monitor, vertically tile the instrument screens and place the video player next to the reward bin so that you can adjust it while watching.
 

 

Edited by golgi1, 31 July 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[Ames]

Is there a guide on how to set up Tagsyncx2 on brainmaster software? If not, would anybody be so kind as to provide one for me and others who may be interested? (I already purchased DD's designs for bioexplorer, but I now have a brainmaster unit and feel it runs better w/ brainmaster software than w/ bioexplorer)

 

Lucky dog. I was wondering when someone around here was going to scale up. Please keep us informed of how you are enjoying the new software. As a matter of window shopping for future use, I was torn between Brainmaster and Thought Technology for its robust biofeedback designs and out of the box TAGSync compataibility (with design purchase). Though, I don't think that TT's lowest filter, which is a separate purchase, allows for the current low frequency standard in ILF training; but Brainmaster does as far as I know. Though, the slider bar frequency adjustment seems pretty crucial in the Cygnet design when working with clients (for instance) and the ILF protocol.

 

What specifially runs better in Brainmaster? TAGSync Bioexplorer designs? I'm not sure that you can use DD's specific designs in brainmaster; but I could be wrong. Perhaps you are referring to the construction of an equivelant design in Brainmaster? You might have limited luck here because, to my knowledge and as far as anyone has divulged, there aren't many/any other people here with a Brainmaster setup. Though, you might have some luck in the Brainmaster forums. One of the brainmaster guys also released a book on the technology of neurofeedback. That might also be helpful in navigating design construction.