179 replies to this topic

[Metagene]

Yes, I did push that above other possibilities, just as a matter of statistics. The likelihood that he had severe damage from one use is statistically low. Is it possible? Of course, and I do not discount underlying biological issues. I think it's far more probable that there was some small damage, instead of severe, being exacerbated by his perception of it. Additionally, just the fact that he is extremely focused on it has a psychogenic effect in and of itself. It's like having a body pain and either focusing on it, which increases the experience of it, or doing something like playing video games, which takes the focus off and in and of itself reduces the experience of the pain.

The OP should verify any information with a qualified professional not me or you.

Well, we finally agree on something.

You are talking about impersonal statistics dude.

Savagek already said his MRI, EEG and blood test came back normal so serve damage has been ruled out. I don't understand this "one use" fallacy, He used a combination of Cocaine, Alcohol and Xanax. Scientific literature has established cocaine alone can cause a "wide range of pathologies". You say psychogenic effects when you are actually describing psychosomatic ones. Read the entire diagnostic cirteria. It doesn't apply here.

"Conversion disorder, as stated in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR), involves symptoms or deficits affecting voluntary motor or sensory function that suggest a neurologic or other general medical condition. Yet, following a thorough evaluation, which includes a detailed neurologic examination and appropriate laboratory and radiographic diagnostic tests, no neurologic explanation exists for the symptoms, or the examination findings are inconsistent with the complaint. In other words, symptoms of an organic medical disorder or disturbance in normal neurologic functioning exist that are not referable to an organic medical or neurologic cause.

Common examples of conversion symptoms include blindness, diplopia, paralysis, dystonia, psychogenic nonepileptic seizures (PNES), anesthesia, aphonia, amnesia, dementia, unresponsiveness, swallowing difficulties, motor tics, hallucinations, pseudocyesis and difficulty walking."

http://emedicine.med...7464-overview#1

Edited by Metagene, 27 May 2015 - 06:01 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

All the immediate disorders you have cited tend to lead towards symptoms like tingling, headaches, etc...I am more willing to see these as a probability. However, you haven't cited anything that affects cognitive function so deeply after just one use. That's the things I think have a large psychogenic component. The head pains may not be, and perhaps I should have made that distinction earlier.

[Metagene]

All the immediate disorders you have cited tend to lead towards symptoms like tingling, headaches, etc...I am more willing to see these as a probability. However, you haven't cited anything that affects cognitive function so deeply after just one use. That's the things I think have a large psychogenic component. The head pains may not be, and perhaps I should have made that distinction earlier.

 

A ischaemic or haemorrhagic stroke could cause those symptoms. Why do you keep saying one use?

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2600058/

[OneScrewLoose]

 

All the immediate disorders you have cited tend to lead towards symptoms like tingling, headaches, etc...I am more willing to see these as a probability. However, you haven't cited anything that affects cognitive function so deeply after just one use. That's the things I think have a large psychogenic component. The head pains may not be, and perhaps I should have made that distinction earlier.

 

A ischaemic or haemorrhagic stroke could cause those symptoms. Why do you keep saying one use?

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2600058/

 

 

Because he used it once. And I'm working from probability. The probability that the single use caused all that is low, though not impossible.

[Metagene]

All the immediate disorders you have cited tend to lead towards symptoms like tingling, headaches, etc...I am more willing to see these as a probability. However, you haven't cited anything that affects cognitive function so deeply after just one use. That's the things I think have a large psychogenic component. The head pains may not be, and perhaps I should have made that distinction earlier.

A ischaemic or haemorrhagic stroke could cause those symptoms. Why do you keep saying one use?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2600058/

Because he used it once. And I'm working from probability. The probability that the single use caused all that is low, though not impossible.

Remember Cocaine + alcohol. If is not impossible there's a chance it can happen.

"Overdose can occur after a single dose of cocaine or it may take a very large amount of the drug to induce toxic effects. For some, just a small amount of cocaine is enough to cause serious side-effects such as heart arrhythmia, elevated blood pressure or sudden death. For some people though, the amount of cocaine that it takes to produce an overdose effect is much higher. In fact, some can use cocaine repeatedly over-and-over again before they will actually experience serious side-effects."

http://cocaine.org/overdose/

[OneScrewLoose]

 

 

 

All the immediate disorders you have cited tend to lead towards symptoms like tingling, headaches, etc...I am more willing to see these as a probability. However, you haven't cited anything that affects cognitive function so deeply after just one use. That's the things I think have a large psychogenic component. The head pains may not be, and perhaps I should have made that distinction earlier.

A ischaemic or haemorrhagic stroke could cause those symptoms. Why do you keep saying one use?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2600058/

Because he used it once. And I'm working from probability. The probability that the single use caused all that is low, though not impossible.

Remember Cocaine + alcohol. If is not impossible there's a chance it can happen.

"Overdose can occur after a single dose of cocaine or it may take a very large amount of the drug to induce toxic effects. For some, just a small amount of cocaine is enough to cause serious side-effects such as heart arrhythmia, elevated blood pressure or sudden death. For some people though, the amount of cocaine that it takes to produce an overdose effect is much higher. In fact, some can use cocaine repeatedly over-and-over again before they will actually experience serious side-effects."

http://cocaine.org/overdose/

 

 

If he OD'd, he would have gone into a hypertensive crisis and rushed to the hospital. Overdose isn't just taking a lot, it's a severe reaction to the extremely high dose.

I think we are in agreement that it's not impossible. But statistically speaking, is not not small that every single one of his symptoms is being caused by this one use of cocaine? It may be that there was some small damage, and that damage triggered some underlying anxiety disorder once the damage was perceived. The focus on these symptoms then increases the symptoms, like starting at your leg if you broke it, as opposed to playing video games; where you put your attention changes the intensity of what you are feeling, do you not agree with that?

[Metagene]

 

 

 

 

All the immediate disorders you have cited tend to lead towards symptoms like tingling, headaches, etc...I am more willing to see these as a probability. However, you haven't cited anything that affects cognitive function so deeply after just one use. That's the things I think have a large psychogenic component. The head pains may not be, and perhaps I should have made that distinction earlier.

A ischaemic or haemorrhagic stroke could cause those symptoms. Why do you keep saying one use?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2600058/

Because he used it once. And I'm working from probability. The probability that the single use caused all that is low, though not impossible.

Remember Cocaine + alcohol. If is not impossible there's a chance it can happen.

"Overdose can occur after a single dose of cocaine or it may take a very large amount of the drug to induce toxic effects. For some, just a small amount of cocaine is enough to cause serious side-effects such as heart arrhythmia, elevated blood pressure or sudden death. For some people though, the amount of cocaine that it takes to produce an overdose effect is much higher. In fact, some can use cocaine repeatedly over-and-over again before they will actually experience serious side-effects."

http://cocaine.org/overdose/

 

 

If he OD'd, he would have gone into a hypertensive crisis and rushed to the hospital. Overdose isn't just taking a lot, it's a severe reaction to the extremely high dose.

I think we are in agreement that it's not impossible. But statistically speaking, is not not small that every single one of his symptoms is being caused by this one use of cocaine? It may be that there was some small damage, and that damage triggered some underlying anxiety disorder once the damage was perceived. The focus on these symptoms then increases the symptoms, like starting at your leg if you broke it, as opposed to playing video games; where you put your attention changes the intensity of what you are feeling, do you not agree with that?

 

 

Are you paying attention? I mean really?

 

savagek:

 

"A little over three weeks ago I had a couple alcoholic drinks and used two lines of cocaine. Afterwords my heart rate jumped up to about 170 bpm so I took .50 mg o Xanax to calm myself and sleep. Next day i woke up in a complete fog and I've been that way ever since. I can't think clearly at all, its like i have a mental block. I'm having issues with problem solving and reading comprehension. I also have this strange tingling feeling near my left eye and in my forehead at times."

 

 

"The amount of cocaine needed to cause an overdose reaction varies by user, so an overdose can occur even among first-time users taking as little as a couple hundred milligrams of the drug. Use of other drugs along with cocaine can exacerbate the effects, increasing the chances of an overdose."

 

http://www.projectkn...caine-overdose/

 

 

Xanax 

 

"Alcohol is one of the most important and common interactions. Alcohol and benzodiazepines such as alprazolam taken in combination have a synergistic effect on one another, which can cause severe sedation, behavioral changes, and intoxication. The more alcohol and alprazolam taken the worse the interaction."

 

"Alprazolam is a commonly prescribed benzodiazepine. The abuse of benzodiazepines is most frequently seen in conjunction with the abuse of other drugs. Only rare fatalities have been attributed to alprazolam alone. We undertook a retrospective review of cases investigated by the Palm Beach County Medical Examiner's Office in which postmortem toxicologic studies indicated the presence of alprazolam, to further study the pattern of alprazolam abuse. Our review consisted of 178 cases, including 87 in which death was attributed to combined drug toxicity, 2 to alprazolam toxicity alone, 44 to trauma, 12 to natural causes, and 33 to another drug or drugs. Cocaine and methadone were the most common cointoxicants in the cases of combined drug toxicity, while heroin was less frequently detected."

 

http://en.wikipedia....9.E2.80.9385-37

http://journals.lww....h_County.5.aspx

http://www.scientifi...cidental-death/

Edited by Metagene, 30 May 2015 - 12:34 AM.

[OneScrewLoose]

*sigh* A simple heart rate of 170bpm does not an overdose make.

You win, I'm done, he's broken, whatever. He should just off himself I suppose cause there's nothing that can repair that kind of damage, since there's no mental aspect to this.

[SwissGuy]

Hi Savagek, how are you doing these days? Any progress on the brain-fog? I have been going through a similar situation for two months now and am getting desperate.

[matter_of_time]

Cerebrolysin
Cerebrolysin

[SwissGuy]

If taking xanax helps markedly with lifting the brainfog does that conclusively mean that the actual culprit is nothing else than anxiety?

[savagek]

Hi Savagek, how are you doing these days? Any progress on the brain-fog? I have been going through a similar situation for two months now and am getting desperate.

 

 

Sent you a pm

[savagek]

Just an update to this topic.

 

Its been about a year and a half for me since the incident occurred. My situation hasn't improved and in-fact its gotten worse. In the morning I typically start the day off with what feels like a severe hangover. I have really strange pains in my head at this is usually when my vision is at its worst. It typically takes about 7 hours for these feelings to subside. Through the the day i feel as if i can't think clearly at all. Something as simple as planning my day is very difficult because i don't have the mental processing to do so. My vision is now bad to the point were trying to watch tv is too uncomfortable due to the strain of trying to interpret everything. I can spend a little bit of time watching videos of my tablet before i get anxiety due to the mental discomfort. I now have to avoid social situations because trying to follow a conversation is too taxing. When things weren't this bad i went out and had drinks with friends a few times and I've noticed that alcohol makes my symptoms much worse permanently. My memory is bad that trying to remember what happened yesterday gives me a headache. I'm now pretty limited with the things i can do. With what little mental stamina i do have i spend time searching the net trying to get some understanding of what could of happened to me. Unfortunately there just isn't much out there and i usually end up rereading the same stuff over and over.

 

Ive seen a neurologist, neuro ophthalmologist and a neuro psychologist . After i explain my story they just look at me like "what the hell?". I've had mris and eegs aswell as eye exams but nothing shows up. I've tried a few supplements and nootropics and was even put on wellbutrin but that made me feel worse after a few weeks. Its feels like my mind is disappearing and im slowly fading away. It isn't depression, i woke up damaged one day and havent been able to do much with myself since.

Edited by savagek, 29 April 2016 - 08:43 AM.

[IP3]

I have experienced something similiar (twice, now is the second time) when i took my methylphenidate without my "neuroprotective regimen". I thik this effect is due to alteration in a1 adrenergic receptors as it was reversed by trazodone and baclofen or by nicergoline with baclofen. (but baclofen alone didnt improve pain in nose and face) Improvement was very rapid however not completly (some pain and fog peresist but is 80-90% better).

Edited by IP3, 13 May 2016 - 07:05 PM.

[Jordan1993]

Savagek,

I think that I was in similiar situation as you are now. I used to be a recreational drug user and did drugs every couple of weeks. One time I did pretty much of beta cathiones & marihuana. The next day I felt strange sensation in head like constat buzz feeling inside. I felt that my brain was sluggish I couldn’t hold a concretation for more than couple of minutes.  I got more and more anxious that I damaged my brain permanetally. I did all accessible examinations: 2x MRIs, CT scan, EEG, PET  neural conduction, hormones, Doppler USG and many more. There was no indication of brain damage, but I was dead sure that I damaged my brain. I was deeply depressed that couldn’t think property. I felt depersonalised too which was an awful feeling. I felt useless had to give up my Job.  I was in total dispair.

One time I had an opportunity to talk profesor of toxicology who run a toxicology department and asked him for an opinion. He told me that it is very unlikely that I could damage my brain permanentally after single accident. He also told me that he met pepole who suffered that kind of symptoms and accoring to the examination were completely fine. He told me that it is very often a typical symptom of neurosis.   It was a turning point for me because the I started to allow me to think that maybe my brain was all right.

I visited the psychiatrist who priscribed me SSRI. I started taking it, added excercising and psychotherapy,  I finally got over it. I won. The main thing in this process was to belive that it is mainly mental not physiological problem. However, SSRIs helped a lot  calming down the emotions.

The whole process took me 10 months from the beginning of a nightmare to the full recovery.

I am 99% sure that this is your case as well. Psychosomatic diseases could be powerful but they are treatable. I wish you All the Best !

[IP3]

Jordan i also experienced it and my recovery was much much faster. I think that it is post acute withdrawl syndrome, and should be treated by time, abstinence from drugs and administration of antagonists.

[Jordan1993]

@up

hmm, PAWS interesting.. symptoms are very simillar to these I experienced.. However, I never binged and did drugs only occasionally (parties, concerts) so it wasn't continously prolonged abuse. I think I could overstimluate adrenergic receptors (did ethcathione - strong surge of noradrenaline) which resulted in strange sensation in my head, but the main problem was getting scared of it and constant thinking about possible brain impairment which caused further psychosomatic symptoms - a nasty visious circle. Before SSRIs I did amantadine, carbamazepinum and clonidine. None of them worked. Only after high dosage of firstly SSRI (escitalopram) and then SNRI (venlafaxine) I pulled my self together.

 

[IP3]

Trazonone is serotonin reuptake inhibitor however not selective.

I think that anyone who is abusing drugs should be put on baclofen and after month of two, take antagonist of abused drug if paws are present.

[SwissGuy]

Hi Savagek, Hi All,

 

For a close to a year now I have been going through an experience that is remarkably similar to Savagek's, on a number of fronts; Savagek and I have also exchanged bilaterally. For those interested, here is a recent posting of mine in one of the BlueLight fora, with a number of helpful reactions: http://bluelight.org...0bb95c0d66be207.

 

I have repeatedly been going through this thread here and wanted to say that the points that OneScrewLoose kept on making seem particularly sensible to me. Unfortunately much of his effort kept on being consumed by the back-and-forths with Metagene which is a pity.

 

I would like to recruit OneScrewLoose's thinking and advice again as I feel that got lost a bit.

 

Any way we can get him/her to formulate his (or her) recommendations again? How can we get him or her to try to help us again?

 

I am particularly interested in some of the supplements he/she was recommending (aside from the 5HTP that I've already been taking for years) as well as in any thoughts he/she might have on how to deal with the nocebo effect, and on how to abandon this current and endless 'stream of consciousness' that is so focused on, but also determined by, the neurological, or rather 'pseudo-neurological', symptoms that we are experiencing. 

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SwissGuy]

I also just realized that many of his/her comments were negatively rated by the community. This is what might have deterred him/her from continuing to engage. Again, I think that's a pity because he/she was one of the few here making sense here and genuinely trying to help...I think he/she got misunderstood by many of the readers.

 

[Dichotohmy]

I don't believe this has been suggested, but is it possible that some mix of poor blood flow to the sinuses, and some sort of immune-quirk created a perfect storm that was set off when you insuffulated the coke and all of its impurities? More specifically, the immune system reacted to something in the cut cocaine and created an inflammed state of the sinuses, which then let normally benign bacteria proliferate into a long term sinus infection?

Such a hypothesis can explain the fast onset, the chronicity, and symptoms. Chronic sinusitis or infection does create brain fog, cognitive impairment, headaches, pressure, and lots more.

In my youth, I insuffulated meth with impurities before I took to smoking it. I went on to develope chronic nasal congestion for the first time not long after, and I doubt its a coincidence. There's no way in hell I'd ever sniff street meth or coke ever again knowing how delicate the upper respiratory system can be.

[SwissGuy]

Thank you Dichotomy,

 

I had my sinuses checked a few weeks backs and were tole that they´re totally fine. At the moment I see two possibilities:

 

- It is psychosomatic as per Jordan1993´s story; and as per OneLooseScrew´s elaborations, or

- It is the aftermath of a TIA that doesn´t show up on MRI which would be weird because the symptoms of a TIA should disappear within a few days or weeks max

 

Any thoughts? Any other explanations?

 

Cheers....

 

 

[SwissGuy]

and if it is psychosomatic.....one can one do about it? what are the strategies and tools that can be applied to overcome self-fulfilling psychosomatic symptoms?

[savagek]

My symptoms have just been getting worse and worse. Tried hyperbaric oxygen a few weeks ago and woke up with my vision/memory/thinking much more impaired. Now i stumble over words during conversations because i cant think clearly enough to say what it is i want to say. Long term memory is shot now too. Tingling that i originally had on one side of my face has now spread to the other side. Cant understand why it made me worse aswell as anytime i have alcohol or a benzo.

 

I don't at all believe in my case that these issues are psychosomatic. For me they are very real impairments that affect my everyday life.

[jaiho]

Sounds like Anhedonia to me. Drugs can trigger this, your symptoms sound exactly like it.

I've heard of this happening in people abusing MDMA, Amphetamines, Opiates. And it can happen from any long term stress.

It sounds like Cocaine triggered it for you, and most people can use Cocaine without triggering a mental disorder.

 

I believe Alcohol & long term stress triggered it for me.

The substances that knocked it out for me:

 

Zoloft + Nortriptyline - blew away my disassocation, brought back pleasure to music, and slept amazingly

Psilocybin - Blew away my disassocation, but only seemed to last a few weeks after 1 trip.

NSI-189 + Moclobemide - worked for 6 months until i stopped then it wasnt as effective

 

Taking nootropics/supplements won't fix this. You need potent anti depression, which targets Anhedonia. Anhedonia can exist without a mood disorder. Causing severe sleep issues, disassociation, memory issues, verbal issues, Music sounds nothing like before. 

Basically your reward system has changed and only stuff with proven potent anti depressant activity can bring reward back online again.

 

I'll also add, that i had weird physical symptoms during Anhedonia as well. IBS, facial tingling, eyelids doing weird things, head pressures, jaw clenching. 

It all went away on Zoloft + Nortriptyline.

Edited by jaiho, 03 June 2016 - 06:19 AM.

[Blackkzeus]

Yeah definitely seems like anhedonia.

[Blackkzeus]

No fap helps or just not ejaculating at all

[psychejunkie]

My symptoms have just been getting worse and worse. Tried hyperbaric oxygen a few weeks ago and woke up with my vision/memory/thinking much more impaired. Now i stumble over words during conversations because i cant think clearly enough to say what it is i want to say. Long term memory is shot now too. Tingling that i originally had on one side of my face has now spread to the other side. Cant understand why it made me worse aswell as anytime i have alcohol or a benzo.

I don't at all believe in my case that these issues are psychosomatic. For me they are very real impairments that affect my everyday life.

Hi

Im too lazy to read all the posts but I wanted to ask few questions;
(please answer by indicating before and after the incident chnages)

1. Whats your libido status? high or low? after and before the incident
2. Do you feel backache aswell? or any other strange change in somatosensory after the incident which doesnt go away? (except the tingling on your left)
3. Have you tried to stay away from alcohol? for how long?
4. How much Xanax did you take that night?
5. Tell me about your night sleeps; do you sleep deeply without any dreams or feel like awake and alot of dreams? or just normal with few dreams a week? (before and after)
6. How is your appetite? any changes?
7. And bowel movements? constipation or diarrhea?
thanks

Edited by psychejunkie, 03 June 2016 - 11:59 PM.

[jaiho]

No fap helps or just not ejaculating at all

 

Agreed, i found NoFap has profound anti depressant effects, because it basically stops prolactin from suppressing dopamine, and Anhedonia is largely a dopamine / reward based issue.

Alot of people are unable to stop looking at porn or masturbating though. And people who aren't depressed aren't affected usually, because they dont have an affected reward centre.

[psychejunkie]

No fap helps or just not ejaculating at all

Agreed, i found NoFap has profound anti depressant effects, because it basically stops prolactin from suppressing dopamine, and Anhedonia is largely a dopamine / reward based issue.
Alot of people are unable to stop looking at porn or masturbating though. And people who aren't depressed aren't affected usually, because they dont have an affected reward centre.

Yes you're right
but this isnt anhedonia