3 replies to this topic

[wagner]

I have had sleep problems since childhood. I was unable to finish high school because I could not get up before 12, I lost many jobs, and I lost out on many potental great moments of my life.

I have done multiple different sleep studies and I was diagnsed with delayed sleep phase syndrome. I also think I have a sleep disorder called sleep inertia on top of that.

Usually my natural sleep time is between 4AM-12PM. But with melatonin taken at exact times each night and good sleep hygene (cutting out caffiene helped the most, but also no bright lights at night, etc.) and I can get get my sleep time consistantly around 12AM-1AM.

However, going to bed is not the problem, waking up is! If I wake up anytime before 12 then I am extremely fatigued. It is to the point where I will ALWAYS fall back asleep, and then I will usually oversleep until 3PM.

This is where the sleep inertia comes in. One theory is that sleep inertia is caused by the build-up of adenosine in the brain during NREM sleep. Adenosine then binds to receptors, and feelings of tiredness result [1]. Caffiene is able to bind to adenosine receptor sites. As a result, your brain does not detect adenosine.

These two studies are interesting: (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20191943) and (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23829154)

So, this is the regimen I think I will try:

Go to bed at 12 AM. Set an alarm clock for 8 AM. After the first alarm clock goes off immediately consume a caffeine tablet and throw on a nicotne patch. Snooze/drift/fall back asleep until 8 30 AM when the second alarm goes off and the cafiene is in my system.

The only thing is caffiene causes me anxiety and extreme nervousness, to the point of tremors and social anxiety, especially since I cut it out and I am no longer tolerant. I am going to try l-theanine and hour later which is supposed to offset caffiene induced nervousness (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18006208)

I am open to trying Modafinal. However, the last time I tried it I became very nervous. If I can manage the caffiene nervousness with ltehanine and caffiene isn't strong enough, I think I will add it in. 

 

Any opions or advice? Is there anything else I should try?

[1]  Van Dongen, HP; Price, NJ; Mullington, JM; Szuba, MP; Kapoor, SC; Dinges, DF (2001).
 

Edited by awagner, 20 January 2015 - 02:38 AM.

[3mp0w3r]

I am in the same boat.  I am not sure if caffeine is going to work.  I drink tons of it myself now.  I will regularly have 4-5 espressos in the morning.  I am to the point where it doesn't really get rid of that morning brain fog. Plus if you are already hitting the snooze button, what is the likelihood that you will get yourself awake enough to slap on a nicotine patch and drink coffee?  As a snooze button addict myself, it sounds destined to failure.

 

I didn't read the research about adenosine but if it is accepted that adenosine buildup causes the sleep inertia then maybe the buildup iteself should be target so it doesn't happen.  

 

Also, I think it is going to take a multifocal approach.  The snooze button addiction is hard to beat.  I am looking at a sunrise alarm clock the gradually brightens the room over 30minutes prior to the actually alarm sound.  I am also looking into a set of small speakers to hook up to my phone so that it plays mp3s that I like.  There are wifi enabled lightbulbs that you can control with iphone/android apps.  In about 6-12 months they will probably be cheaper 

 

There is a free ware app called f.lux.  It removes the blue light from your monitor in graduated steps each hour until sundown.  (Hope it is ok to post a link given it is freeware)

https://justgetflux.com/

 

I found melatonin increased left me feeling way too groggy even with a reduced dose.  

Drugs which work on histamines can be sedating but can also leave you with a groggy hangover.  There are different types of histamine receptor though so this may be an aspect to look into.  

 

A previous thread on this site mentioned tryptophan at night.  

 

I think the main problem is that there are lots of drugs and supplements that are supposed to put you to sleep.  But there isn't much out there to help with end of getting out of bed in the morning.  

I would be interested to hear from anyone else who has gone down this road and found the way to become a morning person.  I am looking into resihi, cordyceps, rhodiola, and a few other supplements.  If anyone has a reccomended sleep stack, let us know.  

 

 

 

 

[wagner]

The experiment of taking caffeine then snoozing for 20 minutes with a light box filling the room with light didn't work. I still sleep through it. 

 

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

[wagner]

To update: For some reason taking pregnenolone 30 MG when i wake up has cured my sleep inertia and helped regulate my circadian rhythms. I am now getting out of bed in the morning without issues. I have been taking it for a month and this is the longest continuous period in my life where I have been up before 7AM, but remarkably, I don't even need an alarm clock. 

 

Nightly I am still taking melatonin, a low dose of 1mg at 9PM and I am asleep at 10. I wake up around 6:30.