114 replies to this topic

[Heisenburger]

Sounds like you’re definitely on the right track. Stick with it—some of the negative sides might go away with time. I sometimes get the stuffy nose, and sometimes I don’t—it’s kind of hit-or-miss. I’ve noticed that two milligrams is far more likely to have this effect than one milligram. My sleep stack took a long time to perfect, but persistence paid off and I’ve finally got it nailed—two mgs. of eti, one mg. of prazosin, ¾ of a teaspoon of glycine, and 300 mcgs of melatonin. It just keeps working better and better with continued use. When I first started this protocol, I still experienced nocturnal awakenings, but they were almost invariably brief. I was usually able to fall back asleep within a few minutes. Now they’re gone completely. I haven’t experienced a single nocturnal awakening in almost two months now. For all intents and purposes, I am now sleeping normally for the first time in my entire life. I’ve had insomnia problems dating as far back as elementary school. Now they’re completely a thing of the past.  The kicker was the addition of the melatonin—that’s what really fine-tuned it to perfection. And even that took a little tweaking to get it to work optimally. The trick in my case was to keep the dose down to 300 mcgs, and to dissolve the melatonin in DMSO and administer it transdermally. I make a 100-day supply at a time. If you want to try this, weigh out 10.96 grams of DMSO (specific gravity of DMSO at 77° F = 1.0955, so 10.96 grams yields 10.0 mL. Add 30 mgs. pure melatonin. It will dissolve instantly. One large drop will contain almost exactly 100 mcgs., so place three drops on the inside of your forearm and briskly rub it in. Good luck, and it’s nice to hear another success story which so closely parallels my own experience.

 

Where do you get your eti? The stuff that Nippon Pharmacy sells is definitely the best, and the stuff from Mimaki Family Pharmacy is almost as good. Nippon also currently has the best price for pressed tablets of any vendor anywhere—about $42 for a box of 100 one-milligram tabs, and shipping is free. Mimaki charges $16 for shipping, but they have the advantage that they ship everything EMS, so if you’re in a hurry and you get lucky, sometimes you can get it to your door in less than a week.

[Strelok]

Where do you get your eti? The stuff that Nippon Pharmacy sells is definitely the best, and the stuff from Mimaki Family Pharmacy is almost as good. Nippon also currently has the best price for pressed tablets of any vendor anywhere—about $42 for a box of 100 one-milligram tabs, and shipping is free. Mimaki charges $16 for shipping, but they have the advantage that they ship everything EMS, so if you’re in a hurry and you get lucky, sometimes you can get it to your door in less than a week.

 

Thanks for all the great info!  I got my eti from Mimaki.  I ordered a couple other items to get my order above $100 and got free shipping.  But per your suggestion, I think I'll go with Nippon next. 

[Heisenburger]

Here’s a non-technical fluff piece which provides an overview of the evidence that the optimal dose of melatonin for humans should be about 300 micrograms. Even the one-milligram tablets, which until very recently were the smallest you could obtain, contain over three times the amount of melatonin you should be taking for sleep. I tried melatonin when it first became commercially available in 1994, and then again a couple of times a few years later, and rejected it because it not only didn’t seem to work, it actually appeared to be counterproductive. But when I lowered the dose to a quarter of a milligram, lo and behold, it suddenly started working. I tried it orally and intranasally, but soon discovered that the transdermal application was the way to go. Obviously, it’s the etizolam that is doing all the heavy lifting in our respective stacks. It’s basically a benzo, so there’s little room for doubt that it is the primary agent that is enabling us to sleep. However, the addition of the other three compounds made a significant difference in the quality of sleep that I had previously obtained from eti alone.

[Strelok]

Where do you get your eti? The stuff that Nippon Pharmacy sells is definitely the best, and the stuff from Mimaki Family Pharmacy is almost as good. Nippon also currently has the best price for pressed tablets of any vendor anywhere—about $42 for a box of 100 one-milligram tabs, and shipping is free. Mimaki charges $16 for shipping, but they have the advantage that they ship everything EMS, so if you’re in a hurry and you get lucky, sometimes you can get it to your door in less than a week.

 

So I ordered some 1mg etizolam tablets from Nippon Pharmacy a couple months ago.  They sent me blister packs manufactured by Combitic Global Caplet Pvt.  These tablets pale in comparison to the TOWA brand that I had previously received from Mimaki.  I have some TOWA tablets left, so I have been able to do a side-by-side comparison with them without relying on my subjective memory of how the TOWA brand may have worked.  1mg of TOWA eti: I sleep pretty darn good.  1.5mg of Combitic eti: I sleep about 85-90% as well compared to 1mg from TOWA.  I feel ripped off. 

 

Nippon Pharmacy also offers a different Indian brand of etizolam called Etilaam and manufactured by Intas. It may be better than the Combitic crap -- I don't know.  But if somebody is reading this and wants a quality version of etizolam that they can trust, all I can say is stick with the TOWA brand.

[YoungSchizo]

This is also turning out to be an astonishingly effective muscle relaxant—far better than benzos or Flexaril. All of the muscles in my neck and shoulders are unknotting themselves in an unprecedented manner. They haven’t been this loose in years. It’s even better than that ‘fresh from the chiropractor’ feeling. I may have stumbled upon a panacea here. I’ve also read that with continued use, the insidious lethargic feeling will eventually go away. I found this Consumer Reports piece that sounds very encouraging:

http://www.consumerr...order/index.htm

AllDayChemist has even better pricing than Mimaki. AllDay’s price is $12.36 for 90 one-milligram Sun Pharma tabs, with $15 shipping. Mimaki sells 100 Pfizer tabs for $34.00 and charges about $16 for shipping.

*bump*

I live in the Netherlands and wanted to try Prazosin to see if it might help my sleep maintenance insomnia. However it is not available in my country anymore. Alldaychemist does not ship to my country and Mimaki doesn't have it anymore? Can't find it. Do you have other cheap sources that ship internationally?

[YoungSchizo]

Anyone on this thread still using Prozasin? How is it working out for you? I actually am really excited to try it, this may be the silver bullet to treat my sleep maintenance insomnia.. I sleep a total of 9 hours (thanks to Mirtazapine) but meanwhile whenever I realize that I dream I wake up (7-8 times a night), this has been going on for a year and in the mean time I've tried 10 different kinds of drugs to treat it, all of which are sedatives and prescribed to "regular" people with insomnia and they all failed on me, waking up and trying to fall back to sleep, it's so fucking frustrating! Does anyone knows a international pharmacy site that doesn't ask for a prescription to buy Prozasin?

 

(I have found a couple of site's that said there was no prescription required, but after filling in all my details and my credit card details and finished the transaction they asked for a prescription afterwards)

Edited by YoungSchizo, 20 July 2017 - 05:37 PM.

[adamh]

I've tried prozasin and its no silver bullet. It may help a little bit but not worth it imo.

[YoungSchizo]

I've tried prozasin and its no silver bullet. It may help a little bit but not worth it imo.

For which condition did you use it, also sleep maintenance insomnia? What dosage were you on?

[adamh]

For sleep induction and maintenance both. It helps a little, I tried various doses. Med mj is better than that.

[gamesguru]

There are a lot of things to treat insomnia and muscle tightness.  I have problems with early wakenings, related to my mental state, and also mild bruxism.  Though the causes may differ, I'm very familiar with these symptoms.  The medical cannabis suggestion is a dangerous one, smoking too much weed is actually detrimental to sleep quality.  prazosin is an alpha blocker.  you can find some in the natural kingdom, but they are really obscure

 

Magnesium is probably the first suggestion to leap to mind, because it treats both symptoms, anxiety and depression to boot.  I shall snack on this one like crackers, til all the worlds seafloors and salt basins are depleted

 

second place, though that hardly needs saying, goes to the mediterranean or paleo diet, and a mixture of cardio and resistance training.  Don't under-estimate the "hit the sack" factor after a day of long walking and healthy snacking.  Eating a big breakfast and light dinner, keeping your blueberries early in the day and kiwis late, snacking on a lot of nuts late in the day (for tryptophan), a lot of things can help make you heavy-eyed in the evening.

 

thirdly, caffeine.  specifically japanese tea, with its theanine and egcg.  caffeine lowers beta receptors, raises gaba and serotonin receptors.  concerning theanine, people always remark how it has such a laughably short half life, but it's modulatory effects don't necessarily go away at the same rate.  if you drink your last cup of tea every day at 2pm, you can really, if only faintly, feel the gamma wave modulation still at midnight

[adamh]

Actually medical pot is very helpful for that. I find its one of the sure things that almost always works. I don't use it every day. Anything that is used "too much" will not be a good idea. You think caffeine helps you sleep? Do tell. I take magnesium every day in several forms including threonate. I take other things too, that might be enough for mild insomnia but for hard core its just not enough. 

 

I had bruxism for years, managed to beat it. There is a saying, 'lips together, teeth apart' and that is the core of it. If your teeth touch they will tend to grind. If you get into the habit of keeping teeth apart, it will carry into your sleep. It took a long time but I beat it, then I had a minor problem of clenching my lips until they got numb. I've mostly got that beat too. It takes time, won't happen in a week or two. Every day you have to remind yourself over and over.

[gamesguru]

not using it every day is great.  but some stuff you can eat every day, maybe rice and apples?  i take magnesium a few times a week, liquid form.  also get a lot from mineral water and food sources

 

my father often brews a cup of drip coffee at 8 or 9 pm and somehow gets away with a healthy 6-7 hrs sleep schedule.. he's even remarked about how he doesn't sleep well without it, but he might just be joking.  i've had similar experiences on white tea, and on occasion green, where it literally puts me to sleep faster than a glass of warm milk.

 

but that's not what i'm advising here.    the distinction i'm getting at is chronic vs acute.  so lets say you do drink tea every day for 3 months, but maybe you drink it only between 5 and 9am.  then it's practically metabolized out of your system by bedtime, but chronic effects remain all day (so you're jittery while you drink coffee, but actually more relaxed than normal late in the day).  it is interesting that medications often exhibit their opposite effects during chronic use or withdrawal states (e.g. magnesium or benzos).. unless youre my dad, then i don't really have an explanation.  perhaps youre out of this world and i'm only half human

 

i sort of have a habit of biting my nails and cuticles, so keeping my teeth apart for any great length of time is not an option.  it definitely carries over into my sleep, but i think magnesium and calcium have been very helpful as have psychosomatic interventions (e.g. stress reduction).  unless i'm like shivering cold, i can control my teeth just fine in fine movements, clench them slowly together and relax them apart without chattering, to fully extend my jaw without popping, and i even seem to bite my cheek less often now.  +10 pts for team magensium.  unfortunately though, a lot of the damage was done in my teen years when i practically sustained myself on flavored cardboard.  doc says i could get paneers but it's also mild enough where i could wait.  the biteguards might halt the physical damage to the teeth, but those rubbery bastards seem to make the neck pain even worse lol

[Heisenburger]

Does anyone knows a international pharmacy site that doesn't ask for a prescription to buy Prozasin?

 

I used to buy it from Mimaki Family Pharmacy. No prescription required, and it’s not a generic—it’s branded Pfizer Minipress.

[Ben]

I am struggling with this too. Melatonin sustained release at 1mg helps but does not do enough to keep me asleep throughout the night.

 

I've been using doxlamine for the last three months. It works extremely well but I'm concerned about:

 

- The long term effects

- Tooth decay from a lack of saliva in the mouth

- The post waking anticholinergic effects (the drug has a very long half life and I can sense my mental acuity is reduced when I've taken it the night before).

 

 

[YoungSchizo]

Which mechanism of action of Mirtazapine makes it such a potent sleep drug, someone maybe can elaborate?

[Ben]

Which mechanism of action of Mirtazapine makes it such a potent sleep drug, someone maybe can elaborate?

 

It is a strong antihistamine at low doses (antihistamine effects go down and SSRI effect go up as dose is increased). Personally, I stopped taking it due to severe facial oedema. I believe there are heart issues with the drug too.

[YoungSchizo]

Which mechanism of action of Mirtazapine makes it such a potent sleep drug, someone maybe can elaborate?

It is a strong antihistamine at low doses (antihistamine effects go down and SSRI effect go up as dose is increased). Personally, I stopped taking it due to severe facial oedema. I believe there are heart issues with the drug too.

Yeah read it yesterday about it's antihistamine properties, people sensitive to drugs benefit from it on a low dose to sleep. I don't, on 30mg I get the strong sleep benefits, Mirtazapine is the only drug that helps me sleep and I'm not kidding if I say I tried 10 different drugs that are used to treat insomnia and non of those helped. I also read it's because of it's antagonism of 5-HT2A/C receptors, I haven't looked into it yet.. gonna look into it today. I need a drug that has the sleep benefits of Mirtazapine but without waking up while dreaming, I hope Prazosin, that's underway, will help with that.

I haven't looked into Doxylamine because it is not available in Europe anymore (like most older generation's H1 antagonists), you should check on drugs.com review's if it's bad in the long run.

[goosestl]

 

Does anyone knows a international pharmacy site that doesn't ask for a prescription to buy Prozasin?

 

I used to buy it from Mimaki Family Pharmacy. No prescription required, and it’s not a generic—it’s branded Pfizer Minipress.

 

 

Heisenburger, are you still seeing good results using Prazosin? Read your notes on it and am thinking about trying it for sleep maintenance as would rather take it than some other stuff with big side effect profiles.  Found it at AllDayChemist.  If you are not taking it or have adjusted your stack, let us know as it sounded like you had a good set of things dialed in for sleep maintenance!

[YoungSchizo]

Prazosin didn't work out for my sleep maintenance. Anyone any other suggestions? I want to try Gabapentin/Pregabalin next but my pdoc is reluctant to prescribe it.

[goosestl]

Gabapentin did nothing for me for sleep, but it did lower my IQ the next day to 20.  Cut it in half! Haha. Seriously though, felt like my brain was dead.

[BlueCloud]

I haven't looked into Doxylamine because it is not available in Europe anymore (like most older generation's H1 antagonists), you should check on drugs.com review's if it's bad in the long run.

I don't know about the rest of Europe, but doxylamine is readily available in France. In fact it's the most popular OTC for insomnia. Diphenhydramine on the other hand is impossible to find. Cyproheptadine is available OTC .

[Strelok]

Trazodone has turned out to be the best sleep aid for me.  It ain't perfect, but that combined with good sleep hygiene, regular exercise, epsom salt baths 30-60 mins before bed, stretching before bed, and aromatherapy (currently using Prime Natural Good Night Blend) has turned out to be reasonably effective and sufficient.

[YoungSchizo]

 

I haven't looked into Doxylamine because it is not available in Europe anymore (like most older generation's H1 antagonists), you should check on drugs.com review's if it's bad in the long run.

I don't know about the rest of Europe, but doxylamine is readily available in France. In fact it's the most popular OTC for insomnia. Diphenhydramine on the other hand is impossible to find. Cyproheptadine is available OTC .

 

 

Yes, I found the anti-histamines, didn't know they were OTC in Europe when I was looking for Doxylamine. However, now I can't use them because I'm taking Parnate (an MAO'I). Trying to get a Pregabalin prescription for sleep maintenance insomnia.

[prunk]

Trazodone has turned out to be the best sleep aid for me.  It ain't perfect, but that combined with good sleep hygiene, regular exercise, epsom salt baths 30-60 mins before bed, stretching before bed, and aromatherapy (currently using Prime Natural Good Night Blend) has turned out to be reasonably effective and sufficient.

It's the best for me too, but it often gives me arrhythmias, even when I take very low doses like 3-5mg. 

[YoungSchizo]

Trazodone has turned out to be the best sleep aid for me.  It ain't perfect, but that combined with good sleep hygiene, regular exercise, epsom salt baths 30-60 mins before bed, stretching before bed, and aromatherapy (currently using Prime Natural Good Night Blend) has turned out to be reasonably effective and sufficient.

 

What dose are you on?

 

 

Trazodone has turned out to be the best sleep aid for me.  It ain't perfect, but that combined with good sleep hygiene, regular exercise, epsom salt baths 30-60 mins before bed, stretching before bed, and aromatherapy (currently using Prime Natural Good Night Blend) has turned out to be reasonably effective and sufficient.

It's the best for me too, but it often gives me arrhythmias, even when I take very low doses like 3-5mg. 

 

 

The lower the dosage with Trazodone the better it aids sleep or are you medication sensitive(?), they say the same about Mirtazapine, the lower the dosage the better for sleep. Though with me it's not the case, I really need a minimal dosage of 30mg (which is an antidepressant dosage) to fall a sleep and get a max 8-12 hours sleep (which is normal for me to feel rested). I tried 20/50mg Trazadone, first few days it was sedating but no effects on my sleep at all. I could try it again at 3/5mg with Parnate, won't hurt.