40 replies to this topic

[Timothy]

Hi,

 

Background:

 

I've recently adopted a ketosis diet which seems interesting.  This is as a result of high cholesterol and a weight of 102kg (89kg is my target) prompting a lifestyle/diet change aimed at reducing inflamation and generally restricting calories.  I have spent a good number of years on piracetam + other however I have recently stopped.

 

Someone adopting a Keto diet goes through keto adaptation which is ultimately the body adapting to burning ketones.  One of the issues during this phase is a drop in sodium, potassium and magnesium as a result in a drop in insulin.  Keto "headaches" (which are very subtle) exist and are sometimes explained as a result of the loss of electrolytes.

 

Key Question:

 

Are the headaches undoing decade long neuron reinforicement as a result of the use of nootropics? Or is this just a phase and I have no concerns?  Would I have to take significant amounts of sodium, potassium and magnesium to get my mind back into balance or am I being silly and overanalyzing this?  At this point this is just conjection and I have not looked for studies on brain health / performance on ketosis.

 

Thanks,

-Timothy

 

[dsohei]

just take hammer nutrition brand endurolytes powder and test out how you feel. most people need more electrolytes anyway.

[playground]

Hi Tim,

 

You started this thread last year, so i presume that you found answers to your

questions and transitioned, at least for a while, into a keto style of eating.

 

I hope you don't mind if i ask you some simple questions.

 

1.   Are you still eating keto ?

2.   If yes, have you found it easy ?

3.   If no, what made you give it up ?

4.   When you became keto adapted, how did you know you were keto adapted ?

      (what are the signs ? Is there an acid test, so to speak ?)

5.   What's your weight now ?

6.   Are you still supplementing with sodium, magnesium and potassium ?

7.   What other supplements are you taking (or did you take) to help with your keto eating ?

8.   Did you take nootropics after becoming keto adapted ?  Did they work the same ?  Differently ?

 

Best wishes..  :-)

 

playground

[Timothy]

1.   Are you still eating keto ?

• No - Once I hit my target weight, I went to a balanced diet due to November/December year end work functions and tequila.

2.   If yes, have you found it easy ?

• There is no need to give up ketosis.  Staying in ketosis is easy.  A glass of red wine is 5g of carbs.  A light beer is 2g of carbs.  I can go out for dinner with friends/work and have 3 light beers, a glass of red wine, lamb chops, and a small dessert, while staying within ketosis.  Ultimately, I find it easy to stay in Keto but don't see the point once you hit your target weight/objective.
• One of the most important steps I did was go through all my kitchen cupboards and remove all sources of carbs.  Jams, Pastas, etc.  Any expensive jams/pastas I put on a bottom shelf under the counter where I never look.  Everything else I gave away to my nearest charity.

3.   If no, what made you give it up ?

• (1) I got to my target weight.  (2) During November/December there are a lot of company lunches/dinners celebrating the end of the year.  I found that sticking to the lifestyle change was quite difficult once you have a couple of tequillas, vodkas, etc.  Ketosis and alcohol are not a fun mix.  I decided that, since I hit my target, I could switch to a balanced lifestyle.

4.   When you became keto adapted, how did you know you were keto adapted ?

      (what are the signs ? Is there an acid test, so to speak ?)

• When I was hungry and got a headache, having any form of fat would immediately ease the headache.

5.   What's your weight now ?

• 94kg.  I started at 103KG and got to 89KG within 7 weeks.  Lost 2KG per week on average. I have been off ketosis for approx 6 months and gained 5kg over this time period.

6.   Are you still supplementing with sodium, magnesium and potassium ?

• No.  When I am in ketosis I eat a lot of green foods with a lot of extra salt.  I cook with mainly green beans but kale/spinach is useful too when making a keto-lasagna.   Green beans with parmesann cheese and salt and pepper with lamb chops.  Green beans with feta and chicken, etc.  There are a lots of easy combinations to cook to get the necessary supplements.    I do not supplement anymore because I know how to get the necessary supplements when cooking.

7.   What other supplements are you taking (or did you take) to help with your keto eating ?

• I took the following to assist getting into, and staying in ketosis:
  • VRP Detox 365 (3g carbs, 4g fibre) to detox.  In general, when you start ketosis you have "stuff" remaining in your digestive system that does not leave your system without help.  This shake generally helps with some form of balanced breakfast in the morning.  Nutriotionalists may not agree but sometimes you don't have time for breakfast and this helps.  I add coconut oil / MCT oil to this.
  • Psyllium husk (fibre) - to assist getting undigested food out of your stomach.  As above.
  • Ibuprofen (one or two days in total) during keto-adaptation when there were headaches and I did not know what I was doing, it helped.
  • Coconut oil (See Bulletproof coffee)  Note: My acceptance of the  the taste of bullet proof coffee anymore.
  • I don't like MCT oil so I try and get my fats from other natural food sources. 

8.   Did you take nootropics after becoming keto adapted ?  Did they work the same ?  Differently ?

• Yes.  More enhanced.  Not that different - I believe that the chemical processes are different with ketosis.  I do not know what the headache is generated from in ketosis and my fear would be to undo the gains I have achieved from nootropics during this kept-adaptation phase.
• I generally now take nootropics as a neuro-protective measure, not for gain as I have achieved my objectives with nootropics however they work together well.  I find that the advantages of being in a state of ketosis quite tremendous for my focus and clarity of thought.  Losses due to heavy drinking in my early 20s has been recovered by nootropics and I don't particularly need to nootropics much anymore (other than neuroprotective benefits).
• Ketosis brought me incredible clarity of thought and focus without the need for nootropics and this certainly stacks with nootropics.  We all have different objectives and you therefore need to decide whether this aligns with your objective.
• I do not know if all nootropics work the same under ketosis.  If you are diabetic this may be something that requires a lot more understanding before continuing your normal nootropic stack. 

[playground]

Hi Tim,

 

Just excellent!  Thanks for those full and detailed answers. :-)

 

 

[normalizing]

nice. getting such nice detailed answers from 1 year old thread starter who is not regular here. ill say, you hit the jackpot playground. i been trying for years to contact old thread starters i need answers from for various important in my mind reasons with no effect and you did it just this ones here. way to go

Edited by normalizing, 12 June 2016 - 03:06 PM.

[playground]

Yep, i hit the jackpot.  Tim's a nice guy.  :-)

[playground]

Carb-free alcohol.

-----------------------

I was reading two days ago that alcohol can be carb free.

Spirits like Whisky, Rum, Gin, Vodka, absinthe ...  etc. 

Usually have a carb level of zero. 

These are usually, approx, 35% proof.

 

[Tangential point: I would like to know which spirits are gluten-free]

 

If you mixed your favourite spirit with water in a ratio of 2:1

It would be only about 12% .. about the strength of wine, and no carbs.

If you mixed your favourite spirit with water to a ratio of 4:1 It would be 7%

The strength of beer.. and again... no carbs.

You could drink 5 gallons of it.. and still.. no carbs.

 

But i believe that your body will burn the alcohol preferentially

to carbs or fats... so perhaps this means you would pop out of ketosis.

Or perhaps it means that your body would put ketosis somehow "on hold"

until the alcohol has been all used up.

 

Bullet Proof Spirits.

-------------------------

Here is a left field idea for you...  it follows in the footsteps of another

leftfield idea.. that of bullet proof coffee.

So...  MCT Oil, or coconut oil or butter in your morning coffee.

 

As i understand it, alcohol dissolves fats too.

So you could have bullet proof whisky, vodka, absinthe,  etc.

Presumably, this would make for a very creamy, or oily, shot.

I haven't tried it...  at least not yet.  :-)

 

 

 

 

[gamesguru]

it was suggested in another thread CR can sometimes reduce your cells' energy levels and tolerances to stress, leading to more excitotoxicity. he claimed headaches are a common side effect of ketosis.

this may only happen under rare circumstances, which have yet to be clarified. these mice were juvenile, but perhaps the same holds for adults?

Detrimental Effects of the Ketogenic Diet on Cognitive Function in Rats
Qian Zhao, Carl Stafstrom, Dong Dong Fu, Qing Ching Hu (2004)

The ketogenic diet (KD) is a high-fat, low-carbohydrate, and low-protein diet that is widely used to treat epilepsy in children. Although the KD has been shown to be efficacious in the treatment of childhood epilepsy, the long-term effects of the KD on brain development are not clear. The objective of this study was to examine the long-term effects of the KD on visual-spatial memory, activity level, and emotionality in immature rats after status epilepticus (SE). Weanling rats were subjected to lithium/pilocarpine-induced SE or saline injections and were then randomized to either the KD or regular rat diet, both fed ad libitum. One month later, rats were evaluated for visual-spatial memory in the water maze, activity level in the open field test, and emotionality with the handling test. Spontaneous recurrent seizures were measured using videotaping, and seizure susceptibility was tested with flurothyl inhalation. Brains were weighed and examined for mossy fiber sprouting and cell loss. Although rats treated with the KD were active and seemed healthy, their weight gain was substantially lower than that in rats that received regular rat diet. The KD reduced the number of spontaneous seizures but had no discernible effect on flurothyl seizure susceptibility. KD-fed rats, with or without SE, had significantly impaired visual-spatial learning and memory compared with rats that were fed regular diet. The KD had minimal effects on activity level and emotionality. Rats that were treated with the KD had significantly impaired brain growth. No differences in pathology scores between the KD and regular diet groups were seen after SE. Despite reducing the number of spontaneous seizures after SE, the KD resulted in severe impairment in visual-spatial memory and decreased brain growth, with no effect on mossy fiber sprouting. This study raises concerns about the long-term effects of the KD on brain development.

Edited by gamesguru, 13 June 2016 - 02:39 AM.

[playground]

 

it was suggested in another thread CR can sometimes reduce your cells' energy levels and tolerances to stress, leading to more excitotoxicity. he claimed headaches are a common side effect of ketosis.

this may only happen under rare circumstances, which have yet to be clarified. these mice were juvenile, but perhaps the same holds for adults?

Detrimental Effects of the Ketogenic Diet on Cognitive Function in Rats
Qian Zhao, Carl Stafstrom, Dong Dong Fu, Qing Ching Hu (2004)

The ketogenic diet (KD) is a high-fat, low-carbohydrate, and low-protein diet that is widely used to treat epilepsy in children. Although the KD has been shown to be efficacious in the treatment of childhood epilepsy, the long-term effects of the KD on brain development are not clear. The objective of this study was to examine the long-term effects of the KD on visual-spatial memory, activity level, and emotionality in immature rats after status epilepticus (SE). Weanling rats were subjected to lithium/pilocarpine-induced SE or saline injections and were then randomized to either the KD or regular rat diet, both fed ad libitum. One month later, rats were evaluated for visual-spatial memory in the water maze, activity level in the open field test, and emotionality with the handling test. Spontaneous recurrent seizures were measured using videotaping, and seizure susceptibility was tested with flurothyl inhalation. Brains were weighed and examined for mossy fiber sprouting and cell loss. Although rats treated with the KD were active and seemed healthy, their weight gain was substantially lower than that in rats that received regular rat diet. The KD reduced the number of spontaneous seizures but had no discernible effect on flurothyl seizure susceptibility. KD-fed rats, with or without SE, had significantly impaired visual-spatial learning and memory compared with rats that were fed regular diet. The KD had minimal effects on activity level and emotionality. Rats that were treated with the KD had significantly impaired brain growth. No differences in pathology scores between the KD and regular diet groups were seen after SE. Despite reducing the number of spontaneous seizures after SE, the KD resulted in severe impairment in visual-spatial memory and decreased brain growth, with no effect on mossy fiber sprouting. This study raises concerns about the long-term effects of the KD on brain development.

 

 

So.... i guess...  if these results are valid...

then don't put your kids on a Ketogenic Diet.

And maybe, don't do a Ketogenic Diet until you're 18 or 21 years old.

(At what age is a human brain fully mature ? 

 16 for girls, 45 for boys? ;-)  )

 

Are these results valid ?

Is there an issue here with carbohydrate deprivation versus nutrient deprivation ?

Were the cognitive problems experienced by these rodents... really down to an absence of carbs....

or down to a lack of zinc, or magnesium or insufficient B2 or B6  ... etc.

Did the KD group receive nutrient enriched fats ?

Did the KD group receive sodium/potassium/magnesium enriched water ?

 

Why run this experiment on lithium/pilocarpine-induced epileptic rats ? 

Why not run this experiment on normal rats ?
 

Interesting study. 

Food for thought... good find Gamesguru   :-)

Edited by playground, 13 June 2016 - 03:11 AM.

[normalizing]

actually kids with epilepsy only benefit from the ketogenic diet and you need references, you can get a dozen by google. in all honestly, im willing to take any study done on actual human kids with epilepsy  over a rat study with their small minuscule brain and their reaction

[playground]

I have been searching for some "acid test" that will tell someone (well, me)

when i am definitely "keto adapted".  So i've hunted down PDF versions

of both "The Art and Science of Low Carb Living" and "The Ketogenic Diet".

(both available on bit torrent sites, btw)

 

There seems to be no acid test.

Or, if there is, i haven't found it yet.

 

The answers i get back are either

(1) "lookout for the surge in energy".

      This came from Ron Rosedale's book marketing website/forum.

 

(2) A return of energy and being in a consistent good mood (or "better than usual" mood).

     There is also some descriptions of having consistent (non-fluctuating) energy levels.

     And (perhaps paradoxically) a relative lack of hunger.

 

Can you use blood keytone levels as a guide ?

Blood ketone levels will vary naturally based on how much you exercise and what you eat.  

Eat carrots and you can expect fewer ketones (in your blood) than if you eat a few

cupfuls of coconut oil.

 

So.. "keto adapted"  ... seems to be a subjective attribution.

 

Unless of-course, there *is* an acid test for "keto adaptation" and i just haven't

wandered into that literature yet. 

 

If anyone knows for sure, please let me know.

Edited by playground, 13 June 2016 - 11:36 AM.

[psychejunkie]

I guess a simple Urine pH test would show if someone is in Ketosis or not

[Timothy]

Hi,

Thanks all for the comments.  Sharing knowledge & data is key to any form of improvements.

 

I've tried those ketostix and I eventually found them a real waste of money unless you are diabetic.  Once you get through the headache phase (ketoadaptation) and your body is efficiently utilizing fats, you feel fundamentally different.  More alert, more efficient, more energetic, more focused.   The difference is quite phenomonol and you dont need ketostix to know you are in ketosis.

 

Getting into ketosis without knowing what to expect is kinda like searching in the dark until you find the light switch and ketostix are not going to help you.

 

@playground - If you think of keto-adaptation as the phase where your body is utilizing a biological/chemical pathway in your body that has been underutilized, and is now the major chemical process in your body, then keto-adpatation could be considered complete when your body is in a state of equilibrium and able to supply your body with the necessary energy to function as required.  The adaptation phse is where that under-developed process may utilize different ratios of nutrients and chemicals in your body and may therefore utilize inputs/outputs of existing processes in your body that were funcitoning efficiently but are now have more/less of some chemical in your body.  It is my expectation that this is what causes some headaches/changes during this phase and my fear would be that during this adjustment to some sort of equilibrium, your body/mind could undo gains you could have made using nootropics.  Hence my original question.  I'm not a nutrionalist who researches ketosis so I can only speculate.  The only test I could figure is that you are comfortable going about your day, and performing a reasonable amount of exercise, without any side effects, etc.

 

-Tim

 

[playground]

 

Detrimental Effects of the Ketogenic Diet on Cognitive Function in Rats
Qian Zhao, Carl Stafstrom, Dong Dong Fu, Qing Ching Hu (2004)

This study raises concerns about the long-term effects of the KD on brain development.

 

 

So.... i guess...  if these results are valid...

then don't put your kids on a Ketogenic Diet.

 

 

But children are routinely placed on ketogenic diets...

There is a successful treatment for epilepsy that involves 3 years on a keto diet.

Its been used on hundreds of children... 

No cognitive/intellectual impairments have been reported as a side effect of this treatment.

 

Very recently i watched a 1997 movie, with Meryl Streep:  First Do No Harm.

See here:

http://www.imdb.com/...ref_=fn_al_tt_4

It's a dramatisation of a true story of a young boy who develops epilepsy,

his parents take him to hospital and the doctors give him the usual  drugs, which

don't work.. they give him drugs to counter the side effects of the original drugs.

They try off label drugs and then propose experimental drugs and brain surgery.

The family is in despair, the drugs and treatments only seem to make the boy

worse.  Eventually they find out about the ketogenic diet and take the boy off

to some other clinic which specialises in the ketogenic diet treatment.

 

To the best of my knowledge this is the only film that features the ketogenic diet.

I guess it's excellent PR for the Keto diet to see it defeating intractable epilepsy.

 

Perhaps ketogenic diet is successful because neurological conditions like

epilepsy, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, MS, chronic fatigue ..etc..etc.  are caused

by invasive pathogens that are feeding on the glucose from the carbs in our food...

when we switch to burning fats for fuel, those pathogens are starved out and die off.

(Just like beating a candida infection) ...  but i digress.

 

So.. in summary, in direct contradiction to the study above with deliberately mutilated rats.

Studies with human children with epilepsy, undertaking the keto diet continuously for 3 years.

report no cognitive or intellectual impairments. 

And.. significantly... no new seizures.

 

playground

 

PS..

The movie 'First Do No Harm' is 19 years old....  If you fancy watching it..

you're bound to be able to find a copy online somewhere.

I notice there are 5 seeds on www.kat.cr

There are 2 seeds on www.piratebay.club

And it's probably available on one of the many movie streaming websites too.

 

[normalizing]

timothy and playground can you please give me your list of things to consume to get into the ketosis, i have hard time here as i read a lot of healthy stuff are a no so its just leaves what, meat eggs dairy? thats disgusting. i hate those, so what do you guys actually take?

[gamesguru]

i think cottage cheese and yogurt are doable in moderation. get creative with how you cook meat and vegetables together. organ meats sound disgusting but taste delightful.

 

a fruitless protein shake, hemp or whey. nuts, coconut, avocado. bacon. a very tiny bit of blackberry and 90% chocolate. canned sardines or tuna.

 

http://ketodietapp.c...o-Eat-and-Avoid

[normalizing]

i cant eat any of the crap you mentioned though

[gamesguru]

why ever not?

[normalizing]

btw i know this is hard to comprehend and im aggressive to seek more on this, can you PLEASE describe how bacteria or even viruses are using glucose versus fats to utilize energy within the body? thats a game changer. you show me good proof, it changes so much, its unbelievable silent breakthrough in science actually

[playground]

Hi,

Thanks all for the comments.  Sharing knowledge & data is key to any form of improvements.

 

I've tried those ketostix and I eventually found them a real waste of money unless you are diabetic.  Once you get through the headache phase (ketoadaptation) and your body is efficiently utilizing fats, you feel fundamentally different.  More alert, more efficient, more energetic, more focused.   The difference is quite phenomonol and you dont need ketostix to know you are in ketosis.

 

Getting into ketosis without knowing what to expect is kinda like searching in the dark until you find the light switch and ketostix are not going to help you.

 

@playground - If you think of keto-adaptation as the phase where your body is utilizing a biological/chemical pathway in your body that has been underutilized, and is now the major chemical process in your body, then keto-adpatation could be considered complete when your body is in a state of equilibrium and able to supply your body with the necessary energy to function as required.  The adaptation phse is where that under-developed process may utilize different ratios of nutrients and chemicals in your body and may therefore utilize inputs/outputs of existing processes in your body that were funcitoning efficiently but are now have more/less of some chemical in your body.  It is my expectation that this is what causes some headaches/changes during this phase and my fear would be that during this adjustment to some sort of equilibrium, your body/mind could undo gains you could have made using nootropics.  Hence my original question.  I'm not a nutrionalist who researches ketosis so I can only speculate.  The only test I could figure is that you are comfortable going about your day, and performing a reasonable amount of exercise, without any side effects, etc.

 

-Tim

 

Hi Tim,

 

I completely agree that sharing knowledge and data is key to progress,

for both the givers and receivers of the knowledge and data.
 

"...the headache phase..."  Nice phrase.

I'm definitely still in the pre-adaptation stage.. 

I seem to have a headache most days...  usually in the mornings.

The headache vanishes when i drink water containing a gram (or two)

of salt and 1/2 gram of magnesium citrate. 

That simply works.. (for me) .. so i suspect the headaches are

caused by an electrolyte imbalance.

 

I also often wake up with twitching calf muscles. 

They seem to have a  life of their own... and this twitching seems to  be

connected to feet cramps and calf cramps.... sometimes i have to jump

out of bed in the middle of the night .. and put all my weight on the one

leg that's seized up.  

This is either magnesium or potassium deficiency.

This has got a lot better since i added magnesium citrate to my salt water drink.

As from today I will be adding a gram of potassium citrate too.

 

But i have only felt nauseous 3 times... in about 6 days.

I am not sure if the nausea is caused by sodium, or magnesium, or potassium deficiency.

Or.. as you suggest, Tim ... the "stress" of starting up new metabolic pathways.

 

I am using keto sticks pretty often these days.

Oddly, i find that after waking after 8 or 10 hours sleep, my keto reading

says "pink"  (just above negligible ketones).

Then 1 hour later, after eating, my keto stick says "red" (moderate ketones).

 

I must say.. i am definitely looking forward to being keto adapted.

Be interesting to see if my sudoku times improve. :-)

 

playground

[normalizing]

playthough you selfish bastard, can you contribute to this thread so others try and follow it instead of keep talking about how you feel

[normalizing]

going through, i found this; Viral growth analyses supported this hypothesis, showing that glutamine deprivation stopped the formation of infectious virions; in addition, glutamine was found to be a major source of ATP in infected human fibroblasts, but not in uninfected cells

 

ok im still having trouble with glucose, it doesnt seem that vital to virions, it does seem glutamate sucks and has been sucking for quite a while beyond excitotoxicity

Edited by normalizing, 16 June 2016 - 04:16 AM.

[playground]

btw i know this is hard to comprehend and im aggressive to seek more on this, can you PLEASE describe how bacteria or even viruses are using glucose versus fats to utilize energy within the body? thats a game changer. you show me good proof, it changes so much, its unbelievable silent breakthrough in science actually

 

Almost all simple organisms... bacteria, viruses...  all consume glucose in some form or other.

The use of glucose for energy is very, very ancient... all, or virtually all, organisms do it.

 

Only the more advanced, complicated organisms have mechanisms for burning fat/ketones as fuel.

To do this trick you need to be big... you need to be multi-cellular... like a reptile, a bird or a mammal.

Pathogens like bacteria and viruses... can't do the "burn fats for energy" trick.

 

Virtually all the cells of your body have a dual-fuel burning mechanism.

They can burn glucose and they can burn fats/ketones.

 

If your body has been invaded with some thing like candida or chlamydia pnuemoniae

(which is thought to be involved in MS, chronic fatigue, Alzheimer's... and goodness knows what else)

.. we know these nasties love the sugars in your diet.  And just like bacteria in a petra dish, if

you stop feeding them, they stop dividing and obligingly die off .... (or go into an inactive 'dormant' mode).

 

In a nut shell...  bacteria/viruses can eat glucose, but not fat.

So if you go on a ketogenic diet, you starve out the parasitic invaders in your body.

 

I invite you to consider this...

There is a theory that most cancers are caused by infectious agents (bacteria/viruses)

but that medical/pharmaceutical industry doesn't want to admit this... because the industry 

is making a killing (forgive the pun) selling chemo therapy, radiation therapy, surgery and

dubious genetic therapies...   to the afflicted... (treatments that basically dont work).

 

Interestingly... keto diets have shown a lot of promise with various cancers.

Cancers, it seems, require sugars to thrive.  

Now isn't that odd? 

That these "genetic aberrations" should require sugar.

And isn't it interesting that these "genetic aberrations"... get better when you cut off their sugar supply?

It's almost as if these cancers are caused by (bacterial/viral) pathogens.

 

I wonder what the scale of medical/pharmaceutical profit losses would be ....

if we exchanged chemotherapy, radiation therapy, surgery and genetic therapies for

ketogenic diet advice. 

 

playground

 

PS.. I expect there will be a paid pharma-troll along any minute.

Edited by playground, 16 June 2016 - 04:59 AM.

[Timothy]

timothy and playground can you please give me your list of things to consume to get into the ketosis, i have hard time here as i read a lot of healthy stuff are a no so its just leaves what, meat eggs dairy? thats disgusting. i hate those, so what do you guys actually take?

 

@normalizing: Lots of Avocado, Green beans, Broccoli, Kale, and Spinach

 

Don't eat more than 150-200g of meat a day.

 

After emptying various unnecessary carbs from my cupboard, my shopping cart / cupboard consists of the following:

• Avocado
• Parmesan
• Feta
• Chicken Kababs
• Eggs
• Parmesan Cheese
• Salmon Fish Fresh with the skin
• Tuna Fish Fresh
• Broccoli
• Green Beans
• VRP Detox 365
• Cream
• Blue berries
• Black berries
• Lamb Chops
• Pork Chops
• Macadamia Nuts
• Kale / Spinach
• Konjac Spaghetti / Fettuccine
• Cream Cheese
• Red Wine
• Whiskey
• Chocolate
• Mince
• Butter
• Burgers
• Bacon
• Cream Balsamic Reduction
• Coconut Oil
• Chicken & Beef Stock
• Soy Sauce for stir frys
• Psyllium Husk

 

 

Example Meal Combinations:

 

Bullet Proof Coffee

Black Coffee with Fresh Cream

Roasted Macadamia with Chicken & Avo

Scrambled Egg with Broccoli

Scrambled Egg with Avo Balsamic

Spaghetti & Mince

Lasagna (Spinach Cream Cheese as lasagna layer)

Beef burger wrapped in bacon with cheese

Chicken Feta Avo

Salmon Fish Cream Cheese Dill Balsamic

Chicken Green Beans Parmesan

Chicken Broccoli Parmesan

Fresh Cream with a handful of Berries (Strawberries, Blue Berries, Gooseberries, etc) for Dessert

Stir Fry Salmon / Chicken

 

Note: Milk has lactose which is a sugar whereas cream does not have lactose.

 

I try to cook carb free meals and save the 20g of carbs for a glass of red wine and berries for desert.

 

Snacks at work are the hardest part - I keep butter and coconut oil at work to add to black coffee.

 

Hope this helps.

 

-Tim

[Timothy]

 

"...the headache phase..."  Nice phrase.

I'm definitely still in the pre-adaptation stage.. 

I seem to have a headache most days...  usually in the mornings.

The headache vanishes when i drink water containing a gram (or two)

of salt and 1/2 gram of magnesium citrate. 

That simply works.. (for me) .. so i suspect the headaches are

caused by an electrolyte imbalance.

 

I also often wake up with twitching calf muscles. 

They seem to have a  life of their own... and this twitching seems to  be

connected to feet cramps and calf cramps.... sometimes i have to jump

out of bed in the middle of the night .. and put all my weight on the one

leg that's seized up.  

This is either magnesium or potassium deficiency.

This has got a lot better since i added magnesium citrate to my salt water drink.

As from today I will be adding a gram of potassium citrate too.

 

But i have only felt nauseous 3 times... in about 6 days.

I am not sure if the nausea is caused by sodium, or magnesium, or potassium deficiency.

Or.. as you suggest, Tim ... the "stress" of starting up new metabolic pathways.

 

I am using keto sticks pretty often these days.

Oddly, i find that after waking after 8 or 10 hours sleep, my keto reading

says "pink"  (just above negligible ketones).

Then 1 hour later, after eating, my keto stick says "red" (moderate ketones).

 

I must say.. i am definitely looking forward to being keto adapted.

Be interesting to see if my sudoku times improve. :-)

 

playground

 

How long have you been trying ketosis?

 

Take a large magnesium before sleeping and try add more fat at salt to your dinner and try more water.  This will also help sleep more deeply and consistently at night since your sleep may become a little disjointed, sometimes getting only 5 hours of sleep because you are so focused/alert.

 

What you are going through happened to me as well and I compensate as stated.  Cramping while walking was quite unexpected and highlights how many has been lost.  It is probably worth while supplementing for one or two days to get your levels up.  You may not be getting enough through food and need more veg.  Ideally, supplement to stop the cramping and then eat more green veg.  If the cramping re-appears, repeat and add more green veg until.

 

Hope that helps.

 

-Tim

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btw i know this is hard to comprehend and im aggressive to seek more on this, can you PLEASE describe how bacteria or even viruses are using glucose versus fats to utilize energy within the body? thats a game changer. you show me good proof, it changes so much, its unbelievable silent breakthrough in science actually

 

Almost all simple organisms... bacteria, viruses...  all consume glucose in some form or other.

The use of glucose for energy is very, very ancient... all, or virtually all, organisms do it.

 

Only the more advanced, complicated organisms have mechanisms for burning fat/ketones as fuel.

To do this trick you need to be big... you need to be multi-cellular... like a reptile, a bird or a mammal.

Pathogens like bacteria and viruses... can't do the "burn fats for energy" trick.

 

Virtually all the cells of your body have a dual-fuel burning mechanism.

They can burn glucose and they can burn fats/ketones.

 

If your body has been invaded with some thing like candida or chlamydia pnuemoniae

(which is thought to be involved in MS, chronic fatigue, Alzheimer's... and goodness knows what else)

.. we know these nasties love the sugars in your diet.  And just like bacteria in a petra dish, if

you stop feeding them, they stop dividing and obligingly die off .... (or go into an inactive 'dormant' mode).

 

In a nut shell...  bacteria/viruses can eat glucose, but not fat.

So if you go on a ketogenic diet, you starve out the parasitic invaders in your body.

 

I invite you to consider this...

There is a theory that most cancers are caused by infectious agents (bacteria/viruses)

but that medical/pharmaceutical industry doesn't want to admit this... because the industry 

is making a killing (forgive the pun) selling chemo therapy, radiation therapy, surgery and

dubious genetic therapies...   to the afflicted... (treatments that basically dont work).

 

Interestingly... keto diets have shown a lot of promise with various cancers.

Cancers, it seems, require sugars to thrive.  

Now isn't that odd? 

That these "genetic aberrations" should require sugar.

And isn't it interesting that these "genetic aberrations"... get better when you cut off their sugar supply?

It's almost as if these cancers are caused by (bacterial/viral) pathogens.

 

I wonder what the scale of medical/pharmaceutical profit losses would be ....

if we exchanged chemotherapy, radiation therapy, surgery and genetic therapies for

ketogenic diet advice. 

 

playground

 

PS.. I expect there will be a paid pharma-troll along any minute.

 

 

 

ok but wouldnt that also starve and kill the beneficial bacteria in our bodies too?

[playground]

 

 

"...the headache phase..." 

 

How long have you been trying ketosis?

 

Take a large magnesium before sleeping and try add more fat at salt to your dinner and try more water.  This will also help sleep more deeply and consistently at night since your sleep may become a little disjointed, sometimes getting only 5 hours of sleep because you are so focused/alert.

 

What you are going through happened to me as well and I compensate as stated.  Cramping while walking was quite unexpected and highlights how many has been lost.  It is probably worth while supplementing for one or two days to get your levels up.  You may not be getting enough through food and need more veg.  Ideally, supplement to stop the cramping and then eat more green veg.  If the cramping re-appears, repeat and add more green veg until.

 

Hope that helps.

 

-Tim

 

 

Hi Tim,

 

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

I tried to get into ketosis from about 2 weeks-ish ago.

However i made some silly beginners' mistakes and found

myself popping back out of ketosis quite easily..

 

-- i misread the nutritional carbs info for nuts.

   The information was given for an ounce, not 100grams..

   so i ate lots and lots of cashews and almonds thinking they were low in carbs.

       cashews are 30 grams of carbs per 100 grams,

       almonds are 22 grams of carbs per 100 grams.

       (so you can't eat too many of these nuts on a keto diet)

 

-- I found myself eating too many carrots and beetroot.

   both of these are 10 grams of carbs per 100grams.

   But if you eat a kilo of carrots, say, in one day,

   that's 100 grams of carbs right there. 

   So you pop out of ketosis.

 

These days i am more aware of the need to aim for

5% carbs.  So if i eat say 5 grams of carrot, i will match it

with 10 grams of zuccini (3% carbs) and maybe

1/2 a boiled egg or a heaped spoonful of coconut oil.

 

I do two things each evening.

 

1.  I make a "Potassium Soup".. with lots of greens: Swiss Chard, Spinach,

Leek, Coriander Leaf, half a bell pepper, 10 grams of rosemary, 10 grams

of sage and 10 grams ginger.... with about 100 grams of meat/fish/eggs/prawns.

 

2.  I make a lemon and ginger drink with the juice of half a

lemon and about 5 to 10 grams of ginger... plus half a litre of water (just less than a pint) 

To this i add salt, magnesium citrate and potassium citrate.  2grams, 1gram, 1gram (as of last night) 

I sip this before going to bed.    I save about 50% of it. 

I leave it in my bedroom, when i wake up go to for a pee in the middle of the night..

i will top up my electrolytes by drinking some more of the lemon and ginger.

 

From what you say, Tim, i gather you weren't supplementing with Salt, Magnesium and Potassium

every day that you were keto adapted.   Perhaps i will be able to abandon my lemon and ginger

drink in the days or weeks ahead.  Time will tell.

 

thanks again,

 

playground

 

 

 

 

 

  

  

 

[normalizing]

i thought nuts were allowed in ketogenic diet as they are full of fat and relatively no carbs, how the hell can you go to 30 grams of carbs? well i guess that means nuts are out

 

timothy, do you have problems with constipation? i heard thats a major problem for ketogenic diet constipation.

 

and i guess nobody could answer me this but i figured out anyway, i guess you will kill off beneficial bacteria too they would require prebiotics to thrive but prebiotics come high carb material, so i guess thats out as well :s

[normalizing]

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