54 replies to this topic

[Duchykins]

Took 3 drops this morning, another 3 not too long ago.  All of last night's negative symptoms were gone when I woke up so I'm chalking all of that up to anxiety.  Felt well-rested.

 

I'm getting nicotine cravings as if I just tried to quit vaping.  If I resist the vape, then I get munchies.  I hope this passes.  This is notable because my nicotine cravings & consumption also increased with buprpion after the honeymoon period, and have stayed that way ever since.

[sativa]

I added lemongrass, rosemary to the mix.

I have to do some math soon; I have been procrastinating during summer break, so we'll see if I go full retard.

Well, seems like you've picked the right oils! Lemon and Rosemary are probably the most suited oils for cognitive inorovement. Its the cineole in Rosemary that inhibits AChe this increasing acetylcholine levels. Lemon also notably increases perceptive ability notably via increased ability to process more sensory data.

What's cool is you can learn how your brain functions and thinks whilst on these oils and pull this through to your baseline experience. (Okay, this is kind of subjective I know, but I've successfully done this with piracetam amongst other things...)

Back to oils... I have a simple candle powered oil burner that is quite non obtrusive.
Alternatively you can put some drops of oil in a capsule for greater, more sustained, longer lasting effect.

Edited by sativa, 05 August 2015 - 02:10 AM.

[sativa]

Lemon essential oil (GRAS) releases oxytocin via 5-HT1B agonism. The most I've taken orally in a capsule is ~60 drops. Its very safe and intact stimulates liver phase 2 detoxification.

So I'm on day 3, well technically day 4 now and I cannot believe I am about to tell you. In the first day, I took my usual .5 ativan around noon, kept huffing the oil bottle, dripping onto cloth and putting it over my shoulder ...and felt awesome all day until later that night I realized that hadn't taken the other .5 mg I sometimes do, nor was I my usually frazzled and irritable mess at that time of day. So the next day I take no ativan and how that goes (I'm fully expecting to be anxious and irritable with my tinnitus getting louder) with just huffing the cap of the bottle was enough for me for the while day, I didn't even have to bother trying to resist urges to take ativan because I honestly didn't think about it all. Third day woke up with louder tinnitus than usual so I took 1/4 of the ativan (so approx .25 mg) right in the morning and keep using the lemon oil all day. I think I may have found an awesome way to cut back on benzos without so much hassle.

Negatives: putting the lemon oil on a cloth next to my pillow did not affect my sleep quality except in that I had crazy bad trip dreams that I remembered for most of the day (I never remember my dreams). The next night I did the same thing with the cloth: more crazy dreams that I can remember for hours and hours after waking up.

You can use lavander oil to provide excellent sleep quality. I'd recommend applying a drop to throat/temples/forehead/wrists but you can also just smell it, or use it like you've been using lemon already.

I went through a period of putting drops of a mix of oils on my pillow and mattress. Peppermint allowed for increased lung functioning, a bronchodilator of sorts i suppose.

Re lowering your benzo dose, have you ever looked into magnolia tree extract? The molecules are called hokinol and magnolol. They are 5 times stronger than diazepam in terms of anti-anxiety effects but do not make you feel physically "sleepy" or slow (if you see what I mean) Lavander would also work well for this purpose, as an adjunct to the lemon (oxytocin has anti addictive properties) and the magnolia. Theanine also has positive effects related to this notably NMDA antagonism and increased BDNF via AMPA

[Duchykins]

Yeah I tried relora, still have some hanging in the back somewhere.  It's alright.   I take theanine 2-3 times a day, about 200 mg each.  Thanks for the peppermint tips.

[sativa]

Yeah I tried relora, still have some hanging in the back somewhere. It's alright. I take theanine 2-3 times a day, about 200 mg each. Thanks for the peppermint tips.

I see. I was working with 90% pure powder extract you see!

I recently took Theanine combined with agmatine which is an excellent NMDA antagonist, amongst other beneficial effects. Have you ever tried it? It will help with general substance withdrawal and provide better sleep quality

[Duchykins]

Not agmatine, no.

 

It's alright, I'm not having withdrawal, I can't have that because it will trigger migraines.  I don't even really need or want to get entirely off ativan, just reduce and make it more infrequent.  It's just a preference thing.

[Duchykins]

Alright so last two days, 2.5 mg doses x3 day.  Except last night when I took about 5 mg right before bedtime.

 

Woke up okay, but I started feeling the tard come out of me shortly after when I sat down for some morning reading.  Just a little slower, my eyes feel lazy when trying to read.

 

I'm just now getting mild transient pains in my right eye and temple; means I woke up with a migraine and and about to hit the pain phase full-on any hour now.  Reading trouble could easily be attributed to the migraine prodrome.

 

I can't say what role the memantine played in this (doubtful), if any, it's too early to see a pattern.  It was super foggy outside this morning and still overcast (I'm ten minutes walk away from the beach), I'm sensitive to barometric pressure changes and often wake up with pain when the fog decides to hang out.  These kinds of triggers I have never been able to wrestle under control.  

 

Anyways I will have to take sumatriptan pretty soon.  

 

That's all for now.

[Duchykins]

Still going strong, things starting to look up, I am definitely less angry and found more things to laugh at, which means I'm also less vigilant.

 

I took half a ritalin tablet this morning (.5mg) and lolwut! it was like I had taken the whole pill.  Almost felt high (which was not the goal here)

 

I still have yet to put this to more serious tests such as the math, physics, and chemistry books have been staring at me all week.  I'm going to try some tomorrow, I don't feel terribly derpy right now.

 

no fucks given: took no ativan today or yesterday.  Between my teas and my new essential oils, we kicked its ass.

 

I also doubled my riboflavin and thiamine to 100mg each x2/ day.  Huge improvement, going to try for 100mg x3 / day pretty soon here (these are still therapeutic levels)

 

[sativa]

Still going strong, things starting to look up, I am definitely less angry and found more things to laugh at, which means I'm also less vigilant.

I took half a ritalin tablet this morning (.5mg) and lolwut! it was like I had taken the whole pill. Almost felt high (which was not the goal here)

I still have yet to put this to more serious tests such as the math, physics, and chemistry books have been staring at me all week. I'm going to try some tomorrow, I don't feel terribly derpy right now.

no fucks given: took no ativan today or yesterday. Between my teas and my new essential oils, we kicked its ass.

I also doubled my riboflavin and thiamine to 100mg each x2/ day. Huge improvement, going to try for 100mg x3 / day pretty soon here (these are still therapeutic levels)

Sounds good. Rosemary oil contains an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor which will improve your cognition; especially coupled with lemon oil.

Lemon Myrtle contains mostly citral which is a 5-HT2A agonist which increases BDNF. This also significantly improves cognition learning etc

[Duchykins]

My writing skills have been significantly compromised during the last three days at least, and had probably begun decaying a few days before that without my noticing.  Rereading my own posts here at LongeCity (mostly the religion section) and on some Facebook debate groups have exposed an embarrassing level of incomplete sentences, leaving out small words, missing subjects, and all-around poorly composed sentences.   It is clear that some of my thinking or expressive abilities are fragmented at these times.

 

Example of problems in bold:

So since WLC uses divine command theory, which basically advances that anything God does or says is moral.  It is a specific type of universal morality wherein acts have no real moral value in themselves, nor is their value at least partially determined by the suffering or happiness it imparts to sentient beings.  

 

 

Retarded sentence fragment and improper use of imparts and to.  That second sentence is also just shitty overall.  What.  the.  fuck.   

 

My post on the 9th, in this thread, is also quite ridiculous.

 

This is alarming because I felt fine when I wrote them, I did not feel particularly compromised, and because my writing has always been a strength and is typically effortless.  It's now notably more difficult to maintain the standard.  Today I edited a long post on Facebook 8 times because I kept overlooking moderate errors during the previous read-through.  The only errors I caught in real time were spelling (lots of dumb spelling) and writing a word than was different from what I originally intended to write (eg typing internet instead of internal).

I have to say though that during a migraine my writing abilities are crippled a bit, as is my speech, but in the migraine I am typically aware of my crap as I'm actually doing it and can correct right there before posting.  The errors I make are not nearly that egregious and the biggest problem is typically forming a whole cogent thought in my mind before spitting it out, as well as muscle strength and coordination, so that's a different beast than this.

I only have about two weeks before the beginning of fall semester.  I haven't decided what to do at this point, whether to stop or keep going and hope it passes.  Yet I cannot have this carrying over into the school session; I will be having physics, math, chemistry on my plate, and I have a 4.0 with a very unhealthy anxiety over breaking it.  If my writing is this jacked, then there are surely other things wrong that I'm not even aware of.
 

Does anyone have personal experience with this sort of thing, or know how long this might last?

Edited by Duchykins, 12 August 2015 - 04:49 AM.

[sativa]

My writing skills have been significantly compromised during the last three days at least, and had probably begun decaying a few days before that without my noticing. Reading my own posts here at LongeCity (mostly the religion section) and on some Facebook debate groups have exposed an embarrassing level of incomplete sentences, leaving out small words, missing subjects, and all-around poorly composed sentences. It is clear that some of my thinking or expressive abilities are fragmented at these times.

What would you attribute this to? The memantine? (How often do you take it btw?)

Do you still take Theanine? Theanine also has NMDA antagonist properties amongst other things.

[Major Legend]

My writing skills have been significantly compromised during the last three days at least, and had probably begun decaying a few days before that without my noticing.  Rereading my own posts here at LongeCity (mostly the religion section) and on some Facebook debate groups have exposed an embarrassing level of incomplete sentences, leaving out small words, missing subjects, and all-around poorly composed sentences.   It is clear that some of my thinking or expressive abilities are fragmented at these times.

 

Example of problems in bold:

So since WLC uses divine command theory, which basically advances that anything God does or says is moral.  It is a specific type of universal morality wherein acts have no real moral value in themselves, nor is their value at least partially determined by the suffering or happiness it imparts to sentient beings.  

 

 

Retarded sentence fragment and improper use of imparts and to.  That second sentence is also just shitty overall.  What.  the.  fuck.   

 

My post on the 9th, in this thread, is also quite ridiculous.

 

This is alarming because I felt fine when I wrote them, I did not feel particularly compromised, and because my writing has always been a strength and is typically effortless.  It's now notably more difficult to maintain the standard.  Today I edited a long post on Facebook 8 times because I kept overlooking moderate errors during the previous read-through.  The only errors I caught in real time were spelling (lots of dumb spelling) and writing a word than was different from what I originally intended to write (eg typing internet instead of internal).

I have to say though that during a migraine my writing abilities are crippled a bit, as is my speech, but in the migraine I am typically aware of my crap as I'm actually doing it and can correct right there before posting.  The errors I make are not nearly that egregious and the biggest problem is typically forming a whole cogent thought in my mind before spitting it out, as well as muscle strength and coordination, so that's a different beast than this.

I only have about two weeks before the beginning of fall semester.  I haven't decided what to do at this point, whether to stop or keep going and hope it passes.  Yet I cannot have this carrying over into the school session; I will be having physics, math, chemistry on my plate, and I have a 4.0 with a very unhealthy anxiety over breaking it.  If my writing is this jacked, then there are surely other things wrong that I'm not even aware of.
 

Does anyone have personal experience with this sort of thing, or know how long this might last?

 

No Memantine does affect language skills because it is a potent nicotinic antagonist the opposite of anything nootropic..., it takes a long time for your body to compensate receptors for Memantine, because protein building takes time. This is the main reason why so many people drop Memantine early on. 

 

Some people don't get this side effect, some people never get out of this side effect, others get insomnia, but this issue you are having is extremely common and one of the reasons why not many people use memantine.

 

So basically its normal for memantine to make you do stupid things, forget seemingly obvious things, or lose a train of thought and being unable to retrieve it. It takes 2 months at least to completely acclimate to it, this is what it says on the attached leaflet too.

 

I am 1.5 months in and I still get random issues where I find it more difficult to do certain things, but on the other hand iIve been experiencing some improvements in memory, specifically recall from long term.

 

Also pregabalin works wonders for benzo withdrawals, no idea why, so worth checking out for your benzo taper down. Benzos can cause cognitive impairment that compounds over time, so the less you use it the better. I have the paper if you are interested in reading the full thing.

 

 

 Long-term benzodiazepine users were consistently more impaired than controls across all cognitive categories examined, with effect sizes ranging in magnitude from −1.30 to −0.42. The mean weighted effect size was −0.74 (SD ± 0.25). None of the effect sizes had 95% CIs that spanned zero and, therefore, all of these effects were significant and different to zero.

 

CNS Drugs

January 2004, Volume 18, Issue 1, pp 37-48

Date: 29 Aug 2012

Cognitive Effects of Long-Term Benzodiazepine Use

Melinda J. Barker, Kenneth M. Greenwood, Martin Jackson, Dr Simon F. Crowe

 

 

For your reference the average duration for the study was 8-9 years, and the average dosage is any benzo the equivalent of 17.5mg valium (diazepam) which is not high dosage at all. The effects actually got worst the longer people were on benzos, across the board on every cognitive measurement.

Edited by Major Legend, 12 August 2015 - 12:28 PM.

[Duchykins]

 

My writing skills have been significantly compromised during the last three days at least, and had probably begun decaying a few days before that without my noticing. Reading my own posts here at LongeCity (mostly the religion section) and on some Facebook debate groups have exposed an embarrassing level of incomplete sentences, leaving out small words, missing subjects, and all-around poorly composed sentences. It is clear that some of my thinking or expressive abilities are fragmented at these times.

What would you attribute this to? The memantine? (How often do you take it btw?)

Do you still take Theanine? Theanine also has NMDA antagonist properties amongst other things.

 

 

It's definitely the memantine (now @ 5 mg x2 or x3).  Theanine I've been taking for about two years now, it has a completely different effect.

[Duchykins]

 

My writing skills have been significantly compromised during the last three days at least, and had probably begun decaying a few days before that without my noticing.  Rereading my own posts here at LongeCity (mostly the religion section) and on some Facebook debate groups have exposed an embarrassing level of incomplete sentences, leaving out small words, missing subjects, and all-around poorly composed sentences.   It is clear that some of my thinking or expressive abilities are fragmented at these times.

 

Example of problems in bold:

So since WLC uses divine command theory, which basically advances that anything God does or says is moral.  It is a specific type of universal morality wherein acts have no real moral value in themselves, nor is their value at least partially determined by the suffering or happiness it imparts to sentient beings.  

 

 

Retarded sentence fragment and improper use of imparts and to.  That second sentence is also just shitty overall.  What.  the.  fuck.   

 

My post on the 9th, in this thread, is also quite ridiculous.

 

This is alarming because I felt fine when I wrote them, I did not feel particularly compromised, and because my writing has always been a strength and is typically effortless.  It's now notably more difficult to maintain the standard.  Today I edited a long post on Facebook 8 times because I kept overlooking moderate errors during the previous read-through.  The only errors I caught in real time were spelling (lots of dumb spelling) and writing a word than was different from what I originally intended to write (eg typing internet instead of internal).

I have to say though that during a migraine my writing abilities are crippled a bit, as is my speech, but in the migraine I am typically aware of my crap as I'm actually doing it and can correct right there before posting.  The errors I make are not nearly that egregious and the biggest problem is typically forming a whole cogent thought in my mind before spitting it out, as well as muscle strength and coordination, so that's a different beast than this.

I only have about two weeks before the beginning of fall semester.  I haven't decided what to do at this point, whether to stop or keep going and hope it passes.  Yet I cannot have this carrying over into the school session; I will be having physics, math, chemistry on my plate, and I have a 4.0 with a very unhealthy anxiety over breaking it.  If my writing is this jacked, then there are surely other things wrong that I'm not even aware of.
 

Does anyone have personal experience with this sort of thing, or know how long this might last?

 

No Memantine does affect language skills because it is a potent nicotinic antagonist the opposite of anything nootropic..., it takes a long time for your body to compensate receptors for Memantine, because protein building takes time. This is the main reason why so many people drop Memantine early on. 

 

Some people don't get this side effect, some people never get out of this side effect, others get insomnia, but this issue you are having is extremely common and one of the reasons why not many people use memantine.

 

So basically its normal for memantine to make you do stupid things, forget seemingly obvious things, or lose a train of thought and being unable to retrieve it. It takes 2 months at least to completely acclimate to it, this is what it says on the attached leaflet too.

 

I am 1.5 months in and I still get random issues where I find it more difficult to do certain things, but on the other hand iIve been experiencing some improvements in memory, specifically recall from long term.

 

Also pregabalin works wonders for benzo withdrawals, no idea why, so worth checking out for your benzo taper down. Benzos can cause cognitive impairment that compounds over time, so the less you use it the better. I have the paper if you are interested in reading the full thing.

 

 

 Long-term benzodiazepine users were consistently more impaired than controls across all cognitive categories examined, with effect sizes ranging in magnitude from −1.30 to −0.42. The mean weighted effect size was −0.74 (SD ± 0.25). None of the effect sizes had 95% CIs that spanned zero and, therefore, all of these effects were significant and different to zero.

 

CNS Drugs

January 2004, Volume 18, Issue 1, pp 37-48

Date: 29 Aug 2012

Cognitive Effects of Long-Term Benzodiazepine Use

Melinda J. Barker, Kenneth M. Greenwood, Martin Jackson, Dr Simon F. Crowe

 

 

For your reference the average duration for the study was 8-9 years, and the average dosage is any benzo the equivalent of 17.5mg valium (diazepam) which is not high dosage at all. The effects actually got worst the longer people were on benzos, across the board on every cognitive measurement.

 

 

 

Whew I am relieved a bit.  Thank you very much for this information.  I'll keep at it with the memantine for now and simply try to make it more of a habit to triple check over my work more slowly and deliberately in the interim.

That bit on the benzos is absolutely right, that's why I want to back off of it before things start getting heavy, even though my doses were never more than 0.5 mg lorazepam (I think that's like equivalent 2.5 mg valium?).

Still doing surprisingly good with that right now.  Yesterday took 0.25mg after a few days without it.  I've been paying attention to my tinnitus and if it starts getting louder, that means take another dose before worse symptoms start showing up.  I have no prior experience with my own benzo prescription so I don't have anything to compare it to.

[Duchykins]

Memantine @ 5mg twice daily results in a bizarre and uncomfortable pressure at the front lower portion of my neck, and disturbing pounding sensations in my chest when lying down. During these hours I am also somewhat light headed, general muscle weakness with increased tremor, unsteady on my feet, losing balance, bumping into things, once tripping at a curb because I was not lifting my feet as high when walking, and nearly breaking my hand when I fell into the street.

For the moment I have assumed all this is from a dangerously sharp increase in blood pressure. My carotid pulse during these episodes were the most forceful I've ever personally felt with my fingers (including my time as an Army medic), although my heart rate did not seem above my personal baseline (90ish).

All my life, including childhood, I have had blood pressure on the low end of normal, 90/50, and we are sure this is one of my many migraine factors. It doesn't change no matter how crappy my diet is or how sedentary my lifestyle is, or how healthy. It's always been high resting pulse, borderline hypotension. In times of high stress and anxiety it's been documented at no higher than 127/70 (in the ER during a cardiac scare last year).

Of course since my BP was not measured during these episodes with the memantine, I cannot be sure about my assumption, nor will I attempt to confirm it by taking memantine and going to the free BP checker at Walgreens down the street to see what happens.

I go back to normal the next day if I skip doses. I'm now staying at the lower doses which don't seem to bother me aside from being temporarily stupefied but calm.

[Major Legend]

[Deleted Double Post Submission] 

 

Edited by Major Legend, 01 September 2015 - 05:43 AM.

[Major Legend]

Memantine @ 5mg twice daily results in a bizarre and uncomfortable pressure at the front lower portion of my neck, and disturbing pounding sensations in my chest when lying down. During these hours I am also somewhat light headed, general muscle weakness with increased tremor, unsteady on my feet, losing balance, bumping into things, once tripping at a curb because I was not lifting my feet as high when walking, and nearly breaking my hand when I fell into the street.

For the moment I have assumed all this is from a dangerously sharp increase in blood pressure. My carotid pulse during these episodes were the most forceful I've ever personally felt with my fingers (including my time as an Army medic), although my heart rate did not seem above my personal baseline (90ish).

All my life, including childhood, I have had blood pressure on the low end of normal, 90/50, and we are sure this is one of my many migraine factors. It doesn't change no matter how crappy my diet is or how sedentary my lifestyle is, or how healthy. It's always been high resting pulse, borderline hypotension. In times of high stress and anxiety it's been documented at no higher than 127/70 (in the ER during a cardiac scare last year).

Of course since my BP was not measured during these episodes with the memantine, I cannot be sure about my assumption, nor will I attempt to confirm it by taking memantine and going to the free BP checker at Walgreens down the street to see what happens.

I go back to normal the next day if I skip doses. I'm now staying at the lower doses which don't seem to bother me aside from being temporarily stupefied but calm.

 

It doesn't sound like you are taking Memantine, maybe the liquid formulation is formulated wrong or it's not Memantine. I would just use Sun Pharmaceutical tablets. It's possible the sublingual has altogether different effects since it bypasses the first pass metabolism.

 

By the way Memantine is known to have a stellar side effect profile, apart from the aforementioned nicotinic antagonism problem, anything else seems suspicious.

[Duchykins]

Memantine often increases blood pressure, even if not to hypertensive levels.  But hypertension is known though uncommon side effect of memantine.  

 

Memantine doesn't need to cause all those different things separately; just the blood pressure spike alone can do it, even though the balance issue, awkward/weak gait, etc are also known side effects of memantine.  

 

It can also easily be the case that something else I'm take regularly or occasionally (like wellbutrin, ritalin, imitrex or excedrin) has simply increased my risk of side effects from memantine, and if that is true then those memantine dosage goes no higher or I throw it away altogether.  I'm not going to interrupt my existing routine to see if memantine by itself does not have these effects on me when taken by itself.  Those four different drugs taken individually (and taken together) do not significantly raise my blood pressure, but if you throw memantine in the mix, who knows.  The odds are high there is a level of interaction here.

 

But if I have to start being suspicious of Ceretropic's or NSN's products and turn to equally suspicious online pharmacies, then it's time for me to drop the nootropics all at once and walk away from this whole game.  

 

Actually, I'm already very seriously considering that since it's becoming increasingly obvious that only basic nutritional supplements have offered me real, long-term benefits.  I've tried dozens of different "nootropic" products, and vitamins/aminos are the only OTC things staying constant with high, reliable utility with wide application and little to no side effects.

Edited by Duchykins, 02 September 2015 - 01:37 PM.

[Major Legend]

Memantine often increases blood pressure, even if not to hypertensive levels.  But hypertension is known though uncommon side effect of memantine.  

 

Memantine doesn't need to cause all those different things separately; just the blood pressure spike alone can do it, even though the balance issue, awkward/weak gait, etc are also known side effects of memantine.  

 

It can also easily be the case that something else I'm take regularly or occasionally (like wellbutrin, ritalin, imitrex or excedrin) has simply increased my risk of side effects from memantine, and if that is true then those memantine dosage goes no higher or I throw it away altogether.  I'm not going to interrupt my existing routine to see if memantine by itself does not have these effects on me when taken by itself.  Those four different drugs taken individually (and taken together) do not significantly raise my blood pressure, but if you throw memantine in the mix, who knows.  The odds are high there is a level of interaction here.

 

But if I have to start being suspicious of Ceretropic's or NSN's products and turn to equally suspicious online pharmacies, then it's time for me to drop the nootropics all at once and walk away from this whole game.  

 

Actually, I'm already very seriously considering that since it's becoming increasingly obvious that only basic nutritional supplements have offered me real, long-term benefits.  I've tried dozens of different "nootropic" products, and vitamins/aminos are the only OTC things staying constant with high, reliable utility with wide application and little to no side effects.

 

Oh yeah, sorry I forgot you are on wellbutrin, that would make sense.

 

I don't know much about ceretropic, but the guy who owns it seems a little aggressive in the supplier forum on some other guy running some other website.

 

I can vouch for NSN though. I don't think there is even a slight chance they would sell something fake. I have talked to them, and as far as I am aware NSN does really test everything.

 

What are you looking to get out of nootropics?

[Nick Manning]

 

 

Yeah agmatine sulphate is also a very good chemical, memantine seems to have more noticeable effects for better or worse, probably due to it being extremely specific. Agmatine acts on like 3 different mechanisms all together that can reduce tolerance indirectly. So its a for withdrawal/rebound its a great supplement to consider on together with rhodiola and ashwagandha.

 

 

I thought this combo was known for withdrawal? OP needs help with Autism symptoms....

Edited by Nick Manning, 19 September 2015 - 05:41 AM.

[Duchykins]

Update on memantine use

Lots of things have happened in the interim.  I have now been taking memantine daily for about 2 months now, slowly titrating up the dose.  The results have been extraordinary.

 

I'll break down what I've done with my regimen since my last post on this thread:

I stopped using memantine for a long time after lasting posting here, until 3 months ago I decided to go again for real.  I still dose under the tongue and hold it there for at least 15 mins or longer if I can stand it; so whether 3 drops or 6 drops, it is enough to affect me.  I'm now up to about 9 mg every morning.  It still has a negative impact on my writing but not as bad since I can usually spot the weirdness while typing it.  My actual handwriting is now pretty interesting because now I do odd things like start writing a word, actually have the right word in my mind, and instead end up writing down another word that's related to it somehow, either phonetically or a word that has the same letters at the beginning but different letters at the end.  For example, I've been studying organic chemistry for the past two weeks and sometimes write parent chane instead of parent chain, keytone instead of ketone, or write down a completely different word like extremely instead of extraneous.  Since I don't do this when typing, my writing problems when typing consist primarily of crappy, idiotic grammar and sentence structure (but much better now), I believe the issue with my handwriting is more about muscle memory.  This is the only serious adverse affect from the memantine now, I no longer get the blood pressure spikes.

 

Still, it's more than worth it.  My grades have not been really hurt by any of it so far.  But the major bonus is that my migraines have taken a very sharp nosedive.  I still need to have sumatriptan at the ready wherever I go, but can go a few weeks without requiring one, so my quality of life has improved greatly by this one factor alone.

 

There have been other changes: I have increased methyphenidate dosage to roughly 20-25 mg daily.  I've done this because I really wanted to give it a real chance to help me (I was taking it at very small doses before, and irregularly, primarily because I was afraid of it) and so far it's doing better than I'd hoped for.  After about a month of doing thing, I realized I could try to get off bupropion again and have methyphenidate in its place.  I've tried to taper off bupropion a few times before but failed because I would completely shut down and get migraines by the end of the first week of reducing the dose even by 1/5th  (my normal bupropion dose was 150 mg SR twice daily).  I've been on bupropion several years for depression so bad it's damaged my cognition and memory, and stayed on it because it actually reduced migraines to about 4-5 big ones per month where a plethora of prophylactics before it just made my migraines worse.  It was the first antidepressant to actually do any good for me.  Bupropion really did save my life in a certain way, so why do I want off of it?  Because it triples my rage and makes me tense and irritable for hours about 2 hours after dosing, which I've had a problem with since childhood, and exacerbates the essential tremor in my hands.  It also scatters my thoughts a little (mostly because of the tension I think).  It helps depression and migraines but makes PSTD hypervigilance and autistic sensory sensitivity worse; almost unbearable now, and I still leave class or avoid it altogether just because of the other students and my frustration with their very presence (which I realize is not their fault).  This side effect of bupropion is what drove me to finally accept a lorazepam prescription from my docs who've been pushing it on me for years--it helps but not enough without increasing dosage past .5 mg twice a day which I will not do with a true benzo.    I've tried to get off of bupropion or reduce the dose several times before, with a few of my adventures posted on longecity, but failed every time before now.

 

My docs keep trying to put me on SSRIs, tricyclics, or other things that interact significantly with serotonin.  I've been fighting it because of my first experience with such drugs that led to my first and only period of cutting, and first and only suicide attempt by taking 28 pills of 10mg ambien for no apparent reason (all I had left).  The antidepressant that did this to me was Celexa and I was only on it for about 2.5 months when I was 23 (about 11 years ago); this experience still terrifies me because when I said I took all that ambien "for no apparent reason"  I really mean it, while on celexa I gradually slipped into this dark hole of nihilism and apathy without even realizing what was happening to me.  I wasn't upset when I took the ambien, I didn't plan it, I hadn't been ruminating about death and suicide for days beforehand, nothing like that -- I just did it robotically without even really thinking about what it meant.  After this, docs switched me to bupropion which helped, and I was on that for about 6 months afterward until I lost all medical coverage for about 7 years and declined to a very sorry state before getting insurance again.

 

So anyway, back to serotonin.  I almost gave in to the docs because the norepinephrine side effects of bupropion were really screwing things up, and other things tried before made migraines so much worse, but bought some tianeptine instead.  At first my use was tentative and fearful because I had a few incidents where I think the tianeptine triggered migraine a few hours after dosing, and because with 10 mg doses I immediately noticed the distinct warm, calming sensation I get only from opioids like tramadol, morphine, oxycodone, codeine (past use from lower back injury, tooth extractions, multiple spinal tap testing for meningitis, pneumonia a few times, bronchitis a few times, the real flu a few times, and dumbass ER doctors prescribing it for migraine when they should have given a triptan... I have a really colorful medical history).  So that mild opiate-high feeling from tianeptine and headaches had me very wary of taking this drug regularly.  I stopped it for a while and it wasn't until I started taking memantine daily that I decided to try it again but for real this time, because memantine has me feeling almost invincible to migraine.  I've been taking tianeptine 10-12 mg  doses 3 times daily for almost a month now ... it's just amazing.  The migraine threat from it is very low now, and it does help with bupropion's nastiness.

 

2 weeks ago I cut my bupropion dose in half; down to 75 mg twice daily.  I did not fall down all over myself!  Migraine did not get out of control!  My body doesn't even seem to notice that I suddenly chopped the dose back by a full half!  What is this sorcery?  The memantine, methylphenidate, and tianeptine together, with the usual daily theanine and lion's mane, occasional lorazepam, starting to balance me out in every department that matters; migraine, anger, anxiety, concentration, motivation, depression, hypervigilance, unsociability, going out in daylight, staying in class, not freaking out in chem lab because of all the busyness, being organized, tremor and general chest tension.  I still have to take my music everywhere with me, and wear headphones during class and tests often, but I don't think that's ever going to change.  I can walk back bupropion now, I'm sure of it this time.  In another 2 weeks I'll cut the dose in half again, and then the month after that I'l halve the dose again, and be off of it after 4 months if all goes according to plan.  And when the bupropion is gone, I plan to get rid of the lorazepam after that.  

 

The other pros of cutting back the bupropion is that I will be able to have caffeine without my potassium crashing and me going into A-fib, and I will no longer have to keep potassium pills on my person everywhere I go.  It was also a relief to finally figure out what caused the multiple cardiac scares about 1.5 years back (I think?) that had me in and out of the ER and wearing a heart monitor for a few weeks--that it was bupropion indirectly giving me cardiac concerns because of the way the body metabolizes caffeine and bupropion (taking Excedrin or having some soda or coffee), and because of the effects on the heart from chronic stress, and post-stress (the aftermath being tense, irritable and frustrated for hours regularly; pure exhaustion).

 

All because of memantine's potent NMDA antagonism; it's given me more freedom of choice than anything else since the migraines began when I was 21 and pretty much destroyed my life.   I'm going to ask my doc for scripts of memantine and tianeptine so I don't have to get it on the internet anymore.  He knows I have the memantine but not the tianeptine.

 

[sativa]

Sounds good!

Perhaps you know already, Memantine, as well as an NMDA antagonist is also an alpha 7 nicotinic antagonist, a D2 agonist and a TAAR agonist (targeting only dopamine, let's call it dTAAR).

[Duchykins]

Aye.  

[addx]

Felt the need to unload this.

The issue Memantine causes seems to be that of timing parallel streams of processing in the brain. I'm not sure this is related to nicotinic antagonism. Ive been playing around with Memantine for 5 years now, heres what Ive noticed with regards to your experience Duchykins.

 

As a programmer I often work with numbers, copy paste them around or simply remember them and type them into a calculator or a phone. This is where the issue becomes obvious. When looking at a number and trying to remember it, Memantine makes me see all digits of a single number in parallel, the brain gets 'I've seen the number signal', but in fact fails to retrieve or record the order of the digits. Most interestingly, until you try and output the number, by typing for example on the phone, you don't have a clue that you didn't really "record" the order of the digits. This is not a language problem. It help to reproduce the number vocaly (silently) to reproduce it onto the phone.

 

Similarly as you explained, when typing text, I noticed that I would garble sentences or write wrongs words because the train of though that was delivering the sentence went too fast for the train of thought typing the sentence. The forerunning train of thought or "thread" that was thinking up the sentence would often suddenly collapse into the typing "thread" usually when the word I was typing was phonetically similar to the word the forerunning thread was thinking up, causing the typing thread to skip over its buffer. Sometimes the forerunning "thread" that was thinking up the sentence would for example "undo" a few words (redo the last part of the sentence) it thought up which would cause the typing thread to skip or flush the typing buffer at the wrong time causing malformed sentences. More interestingly the forerunning thread thinking up the sentences seems to get a signal that all was typed well and simply doesnt notice the wrongness until you "reread" it, this is most bizarre.

This effect for me is pronounced only at the start of titration, from the first 5mg, but ceases quite fast, in a day or two, maybe even faster than the other positive effects that I like.

 

I do not experience brain fog or anything like that. I do experience the antidepressive surge within minutes of taking it, often accompanied by a change in posture of the muscles at the back of my head.

The positive effects seem to be related to the above weird dyslexia effects. My vision processing improves, it's as if my visual attention field is easily manipulated to focus on the entire scene, more than one object in parallel or to focus objects smoothly as whole, I have difficulties explaining the phenomenon. Focusing objects doesnt feel like labour but comes with ease and is rapid. It seems as if I see the entire picture at the same time (similarly to how when looking at a number in order to remember it I see all digits at the same time and dont record the sequence of the digits).

Also that comment about Memantine taking you to boyhood is spot on, I look at trees and want to climb them, I look at surroundings and want to play in them, hide into sheds and so on. Some kind of boyish vigour. Also, the views look amazing, sharp, smooth, crisp...I enjoy photography on it. I enjoy driving on memantine, increased ability to focus, increase object perception and tracking really reduces the effort required to navigate, and the open changing views are so nice to look at...I also get increased ability to tolerate excercise...spatial coordination is also better, muscles feel more vigorous, sports are better, driving downhill on the MTB feels like a pro, in charge, balanced, aware, in the moment. Music is fun, one can easily get lost singing dancing onto their favorite tune and getting goosebumps on their scalp. 

All of these effects tend to diminish fast, too fast, in days, a week tops. Can't get around that... and it takes sometimes more than a week for whatever this tolerance is to reset itself, depending on how long I took it.. so I only take Memantine on occasions where its effects will improve the experience. When traveling, or going somewhere nice outdoors, works nice with shrooms..I also take it sometimes for MTB rides, just 5mg before the bike ride and that's it. I get all the above effects from only the first 5mg and it last for the second day as well. Taking more than 5mg doesnt improve the experience...

I would sometimes take 10-20, sometimes even 30-40mg during one night, when going out, drinking etc, it allows me to get drunk while maintaining coordination and good vision, effects at 5ht3 also works against nausea caused by alcohol, anti puke, giving you the best of getting drunk - being happy and socially disinhibited - without bad effects of lack of coordination, slurring, puking, blurred vision etc..

Judging from what I've seen above, the "boyhood" effects seem to be related to D2 agonism. Since the boyhood effect and all the positive effects seem to come and go together, I'd first presume they're all related to D2 agonism. Does D2 agonism produce the negative dyslexia like effects stemming from parallel thinking thread timing/coordination? I read that Memantine has a robust effect on PPI, restoring it to normal in most cases at 20mg.. PPI seems to be a timing phenomenon and maybe the dyslexia-like effects it has (at least on us) may be related to that.

Anyway, my point is, the dyslexia like effects do not stem from an 'anti-nootropic' effect of memantine. I have not noticed any cognitive decrease in the sense of memory, recall, other than the ones arising from the "parallel thread" issues I described. There is no accompanying stupidness with this, if anything, I would say my wits are faster and sharper.

I guess, the next step for me should be to try a non-memantine D2 agonist to see if it can produce some or all of the above effects....
 

 

 

 

Edited by addx, 29 April 2016 - 07:36 PM.

[jack black]

Felt the need to unload this.

The issue Memantine causes seems to be that of timing parallel streams of processing in the brain. I'm not sure this is related to nicotinic antagonism. Ive been playing around with Memantine for 5 years now, heres what Ive noticed with regards to your experience Duchykins.

 

As a programmer I often work with numbers, copy paste them around or simply remember them and type them into a calculator or a phone. This is where the issue becomes obvious. When looking at a number and trying to remember it, Memantine makes me see all digits of a single number in parallel, the brain gets 'I've seen the number signal', but in fact fails to retrieve or record the order of the digits. Most interestingly, until you try and output the number, by typing for example on the phone, you don't have a clue that you didn't really "record" the order of the digits. This is not a language problem. It help to reproduce the number vocaly (silently) to reproduce it onto the phone.

 

Similarly as you explained, when typing text, I noticed that I would garble sentences or write wrongs words because the train of though that was delivering the sentence went too fast for the train of thought typing the sentence. The forerunning train of thought or "thread" that was thinking up the sentence would often suddenly collapse into the typing "thread" usually when the word I was typing was phonetically similar to the word the forerunning thread was thinking up, causing the typing thread to skip over its buffer. Sometimes the forerunning "thread" that was thinking up the sentence would for example "undo" a few words (redo the last part of the sentence) it thought up which would cause the typing thread to skip or flush the typing buffer at the wrong time causing malformed sentences. More interestingly the forerunning thread thinking up the sentences seems to get a signal that all was typed well and simply doesnt notice the wrongness until you "reread" it, this is most bizarre.

This effect for me is pronounced only at the start of titration, from the first 5mg, but ceases quite fast, in a day or two, maybe even faster than the other positive effects that I like.

 

I do not experience brain fog or anything like that. I do experience the antidepressive surge within minutes of taking it, often accompanied by a change in posture of the muscles at the back of my head.

The positive effects seem to be related to the above weird dyslexia effects. My vision processing improves, it's as if my visual attention field is easily manipulated to focus on the entire scene, more than one object in parallel or to focus objects smoothly as whole, I have difficulties explaining the phenomenon. Focusing objects doesnt feel like labour but comes with ease and is rapid. It seems as if I see the entire picture at the same time (similarly to how when looking at a number in order to remember it I see all digits at the same time and dont record the sequence of the digits).

Also that comment about Memantine taking you to boyhood is spot on, I look at trees and want to climb them, I look at surroundings and want to play in them, hide into sheds and so on. Some kind of boyish vigour. Also, the views look amazing, sharp, smooth, crisp...I enjoy photography on it. I enjoy driving on memantine, increased ability to focus, increase object perception and tracking really reduces the effort required to navigate, and the open changing views are so nice to look at...I also get increased ability to tolerate excercise...spatial coordination is also better, muscles feel more vigorous, sports are better, driving downhill on the MTB feels like a pro, in charge, balanced, aware, in the moment. Music is fun, one can easily get lost singing dancing onto their favorite tune and getting goosebumps on their scalp. 

All of these effects tend to diminish fast, too fast, in days, a week tops. Can't get around that... and it takes sometimes more than a week for whatever this tolerance is to reset itself, depending on how long I took it.. so I only take Memantine on occasions where its effects will improve the experience. When traveling, or going somewhere nice outdoors, works nice with shrooms..I also take it sometimes for MTB rides, just 5mg before the bike ride and that's it. I get all the above effects from only the first 5mg and it last for the second day as well. Taking more than 5mg doesnt improve the experience...

I would sometimes take 10-20, sometimes even 30-40mg during one night, when going out, drinking etc, it allows me to get drunk while maintaining coordination and good vision, effects at 5ht3 also works against nausea caused by alcohol, anti puke, giving you the best of getting drunk - being happy and socially disinhibited - without bad effects of lack of coordination, slurring, puking, blurred vision etc..

Judging from what I've seen above, the "boyhood" effects seem to be related to D2 agonism. Since the boyhood effect and all the positive effects seem to come and go together, I'd first presume they're all related to D2 agonism. Does D2 agonism produce the negative dyslexia like effects stemming from parallel thinking thread timing/coordination? I read that Memantine has a robust effect on PPI, restoring it to normal in most cases at 20mg.. PPI seems to be a timing phenomenon and maybe the dyslexia-like effects it has (at least on us) may be related to that.

Anyway, my point is, the dyslexia like effects do not stem from an 'anti-nootropic' effect of memantine. I have not noticed any cognitive decrease in the sense of memory, recall, other than the ones arising from the "parallel thread" issues I described. There is no accompanying stupidness with this, if anything, I would say my wits are faster and sharper.

I guess, the next step for me should be to try a non-memantine D2 agonist to see if it can produce some or all of the above effects....
 

 

Very interesting info, especially since I'm going get started on this. Any updates? Are you still taking opiates with this?