11 replies to this topic

[Diego55]

Is there anyone who has tried long-term treatment with microdoses of psychedelics for various anxiety issues, such as:  PTSD, GAD, agoraphobia, social anxiety... ?

 

As for psychedelics, I mean mostly : psilocybin, Psilocetin (4 ACO DMT) , DMT, mescaline... (in low doses),

 

Have you managed to get any improvement for any of above mentioned problems, in the long run ?

 

Thanks

 

Michal

[gamesguru]

[Alin Samson]

So, regarding the micro-dosing:I tried with succes microdosing with ibogaine and psylocibin .At low doses  there are no hallucinations only a mild stimulative effect which could affect your levels of dopamine and serotonin.Overall ,very beneficial but for anxiety which at chemical level could be a GABA deregulation I advise to try first psylocibin,since it could provide a moderate to huge relief.

Edited by Alin Samson, 06 October 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[DeniztheKid]

Hi , its my first post
im very happy to be around u guys

, im a good person im trying to get better
anyway returning to the question of using this type of subs for help the anxiety and depression, in my case to help me with do something good to get better or teach my brain to regulate or return to fuction or heal ..

i have bought many types of pschodelics like peyot
san pedro cactus. mushrooms , babywood..sedds, morning glory seeds..and sorry im not remembering the name now, but there is another types of cactus too

i had bought all this with one intution

take a low dose to give me a stimulation to help me to get out of home , and take a walk...run on the beach, talk others, with the intution of teach my. brain to function again or stimulate my brain
or even take a little of the suffering and daily stress feeling from the aim.( constant living hell because of these symptoms in my case benzo wd) i think that constant sufferin must not do good to you ?

talking about the effects
all the trips i had on lsd or extasy tooked all my need for benzo in the 2 next days of use

i never had taken pure mescaline or psicobilin or the substances of the cactus like peyot, i never had been much into those

im asking ur opnions about use these for ease the anxiety and ptsd , social anxiety andall related as the creator of the post asked

in my case ..im trying to cope with the withdrawal symptoms, in my case if u take a look on psicological post withdrawal u will se what im suffering, like derealization ,anxiety , social anxiety.and all related , i dont panic getting out of home, i just feel unconfotabmle because of the symptoms so o try the maximum to avoid of get out of my.confort zone (house) man im getting out of the question , sorry..


to finish, what ur option of using low doses of iboga root extract , psicobilin or mescalon etc. for disinibiton for , ease the anxity , in my case ease the withdrawal symptoms. if this can lead the brain to heal or learn again to cope with things ?

please if u will say
considerate the facts that im suffering of many psichological symptoms like the above related

and the fact the when i had used extasy or lsd , more extasy it leads me to not need the benzos and feel normal on the following days

And i ask for u to.considerate the impact of the use of those on a brain in healing . revovery process

please i ask for your knowledge here for help to.dig on this subject

many thanks

- DenistheKid

Edited by DeniztheKid, 09 October 2015 - 05:43 AM.

[gamesguru]

LSD left me anxious in the following days, MDMA depressed in the following days.

LSD made me depressed long-term, MDMA made me anxious long-term.

 

Peruvians/Pachnoi are the other cacti btw.

Constant stress is almost certainly bad.

 

I think your problem is mostly a downregulated autorecptors of GABA (benzo) and 5-HT (L & E).  This could be reversed, one would hope, by antagonists. 

 

agonists on 2C (LSD can be antagonist there)
1) Astonine

2) N-3′-ethylaplysinopsin and 6-bromo-2'-de-N-methylaplysinopsin (marine indole alkaoids)

 

apigenin is negative modulator on GABA_A...

 

rest are antagonists:

Ginkgo (GABA_A & 5-HT_1A), Dicyma sp (GABA_A), ginseng (GABA_B), Ziziphus (5HT_1B), Nandina Domestica/isorhynchophylline/Gramine/Puerarin(5-HT_2A), Magnolia and Bacopa (5-HT₆), Rikkunshito/Prozac/SB-242084 (5-HT_2C), gleditsioside F (D1), L-stepholidine (D2), 5-Hydroxy-indoline of Phoebe chekiangensis (D4)

 

Not convinced mescaline/psilocybin or ibogaine would be of any use in this situation.

 

 

[DeniztheKid]

LSD left me anxious in the following days, MDMA depressed in the following days.
LSD made me depressed long-term, MDMA made me anxious long-term.

Peruvians/Pachnoi are the other cacti btw.
Constant stress is almost certainly bad.

I think your problem is mostly a downregulated autorecptors of GABA (benzo) and 5-HT (L & E). This could be reversed, one would hope, by antagonists.

agonists on 2C (LSD can be antagonist there)
1) Astonine
2) N-3′-ethylaplysinopsin and 6-bromo-2'-de-N-methylaplysinopsin (marine indole alkaoids)

apigenin is negative modulator on GABA_A...

rest are antagonists:
Ginkgo (GABA_A & 5-HT_1A), Dicyma sp (GABA_A), ginseng (GABA_B), Ziziphus (5HT_1B), Nandina Domestica/isorhynchophylline/Gramine/Puerarin(5-HT_2A), Magnolia and Bacopa (5-HT₆), Rikkunshito/Prozac/SB-242084 (5-HT_2C), gleditsioside F (D1), L-stepholidine (D2), 5-Hydroxy-indoline of Phoebe chekiangensis (D4)

Not convinced mescaline/psilocybin or ibogaine would be of any use in this situation.

Hi gamesguru

what comes to my mind
when u says that ur use in long tern leads to depression and anxiety is
that mostly everyone takin these daily would have a symptoms like that or wrost
that it was come into my mind

but u was micridosing it ?

u told right those are the cactus name, dont know the active substances of it.

Ur right my case its what ur saying about gaba downregulation and what u specified as 5ht that i will read again

forgive but im kinda lost, im in a bad situation , trying to gate info
to start to take the right thing

u listed some antagonist of gaba, taking these i would stimulate the upregulation of the affected gaba receptors i got it right ?

i got ur list,i apreciate very much ur attention beyond my problem

i would ask forsome help to organoze what i would i should try first in my situation can u give a light on that qiestion?

the upregulation with antagonist or negative modulators

it would help to modulaate the receptors more quickly givin a pushh to the brain to regulate them?






returning to the subject

take a look on these statment

To relive both physical and mental addictions try these instead:

1. Chronic low dose iboga (threshold meaning no hallucinations etc)
i understand that it would help to cope with the withdrawal and the symptoms of it or evwn a endogenous depression , anxoety . pstd and all linked to those?

i dont knOw how iboga in rhese low doses act , problably would lead to a stimuLation or a lift in rhe symptoms?

2. Blue Lotus chronically before bed (balances the dopamine system)

3. NMDA antagonist stack which results in NMDA upregulation and resensitization of all neurotransmitters. Also, it removes tolerences to both endogenous and exogenous chemicals.

4. Prolactin inhibitors (specifically for males, prolactin directly counters dopamine)

Edited by sativa, 16 August 2015 - 08:03 AM.

there are many drugs that i thin that maybe could help , directly. aiming. to fix zthe desregulation
or indirecty Like a psicoative that leads u to. get up and do.something
this way inducing ur brain to get used to things again
( Facing ur fears ) gping put breaking.the blockades that ir.brain madde and its affecting you
anyway that my point oof view
anyrhing that makes u feel able to start acting on ur recovery
not only be layed on the bed

i must gate information, lol im kinda crazy...smoked 2 boxes of cigs already

about psycoatives that can lead to a imprpvement on withdrawal sympmtoms
what about oxytocin?

know that time will heal but in front u and people around here have much knowledge that could help
im thinking about take a kind of nootropic called celebrate from 4 organics.if u have time to see whats is about >

http://m.ebay.com/it...r-/181036222465

doont know if i can put this link but is only to see the compounds . if im doind wrong i will remove

keep thanking for any knowledge of you

- denisthekid

[gamesguru]

No, I was not microdosing.  250 hits over 6 months basically, by like the 80th or 100th hit or 3 month mark, i was feeling a little out of it but I kept marching

I don't think major problems like you describe could be the result of solely microdosing psychedelics, unless it was over the period of many years.  Other factors must contribute.

 

As for the GABA, psychedelics don't affect those receptors directly, rather indirectly:

 

5-HT differently modifies glutamate- and GABA- mediated effects, acting on distinct 5-HT receptor subtypes. At a pre-synaptic level, 5-HT can modulate neurotransmitter release: for example, in various brain regions glutamate release is reduced by 5-HT_1A [162, 164, 177], 5-HT_1B [13, 130, 151, 167] and 5-HT₆ receptors [31]. Similarly, pre-synaptic inhibition of GABA release is mediated by 5-HT_1A [90, 95, 96] and 5-HT_1B receptors [88, 117]. By activation of 5-HT₃ receptors, instead, 5-HT stimulates the release of either glutamate [7, 57, 185] or GABA [90, 96, 179]. Also 5-HT₂ receptors were shown to stimulate GABA release [2] and to either increase [2, 72, 177] or reduce [118] glutamate release in distinct structures.

 

I would say ginkgo for 1A and bacopa for 6, just because they are easier to source/find a supplier for than the other things I mentioned.

 

Ideally though something is done about the 2A & 2C, because those receptors are crucial to psychedelic mechanisms.

 

For prolactin/estrogen, try aromatase inhibitors, eg) button mushrooms (portobello also work) or grape seed extract.

Ginger also boosts testosterone, while green tea reduces it (you could have low T?)

For NMDA antagonist, simply foods rich in magnesium, or another sensible source.

As for the blue lotus and ibogaine, I think they have no role to play in lsd/mdma, which aren't at all supposed to be very addictive street drugs.  Ibogaine is really for only opiates anyways.

No oxytocin, no vasopressin, no testosterone, OK? OK.  To which withdrawal symptoms do you refer?

 

Yes, in the way LSD downreguates the 5-HT2A system, Puerarin & Rikkunshito upregulate it.  Agonist vs. antagonist

 

As far as something to make you get up and do something, green tea. 3-5 STRONG, bitter cups before work.  Mostly the caffeine has this effect, but also theanine, epicatechin, and epigallocatechin gallate.

See my profile for links to 3 senchas (the sencha moe is my personal fav, due to lower pricing and similar quality as the rest).

---------------

on the ebay supplement, i recommend just buying bulk powdered bacopa.  maybe ALCAR.  phoshatidylserine/choline, see this thread: http://www.longecity...ne/#entry746813

arginine = pro herpes in large amounts.  but dont try to cut it out of your diet altogether, as immune health depends on it.
DMAE = unneeded
vinpocetine = bad (long-term, IME)
Bioperine = worthless without turmeric/curcumin
Valeriana = bullshit?  really don't know why they include it
Calcium = dietary, like i mentioned for magnesium already

[Guinga]

I had the three best weeks of my adult life last year, while microdising psylocibin along with green tea in the morning. Depression, Aphathy, anhedonia and social anxiety, were all gone. i had fucus but not with a wired feeling like i have with ritalin. i also and had a gained more confidence but it was nothing like hypomania, it just felt right. and instead of being more confrontational (what happens when i gain more confidence when i'm on a stimulant) i could relate to people more while at the same time stand my ground. i also had a surge in motivation to do things, so i started some projects that i never had courage to do. but when I stopped all that motivation was gone with a week or so.

 

so recently i decided to do some reserch and try to find a subistitute, and found some conflicting information about 5ht2a-agonism. wich i believe was the main factor for the effects that I had.  but accordingly to this article from Area-1255 blog, it states that "the 5-HT2A/2C are inhibitory upon dopaminergic neurotransmission - "notably in reward area's such as the Ventral Tagament (VTA) and Hypothalamus". now i'm just confused, is this receptor activation beneficial or not? or it depends on othe conditions?

 

i also found this interesting article on this receptor:

The Secret Ingredient for Social Success of Young Males: A Functional Polymorphism in the 5HT2A Serotonin Receptor Gene

 but I can't fully comprehend it's implications. 

Edited by Guinga, 17 October 2015 - 03:35 AM.

[Guinga]

another study, that seems to indicate that 5ht2-a actvation induces dopamine realease in the mesocortical system:

 

 

 

Evidence for the preferential involvement of 5-HT2A serotonin receptors in stress- and drug-induced dopaminerelease in the rat medial prefrontal cortex.

Pehek EA1, Nocjar C, Roth BL, Byrd TA, Mabrouk OS.

Author information

 

Abstract

The mechanism(s) by which serotonin modulates dopamine release in the medial prefrontal cortex is not known, although studies suggest an involvement of 5-HT2 family receptors. We employed in vivo microdialysis and putatively selective 5-HT2A antagonists (M100907, MDL 11,939, SR46349B) to determine if 5-HT2A receptors are responsible for both drug- and stress-induced DA release in the medial prefrontal cortex. MDL 11,939 and SR46349B receptor-binding studies indicated, for the first time, that only MDL 11,939 had greater selectivity for the 5-HT2A vs the 5-HT2C receptor subtypes similar to M100907, and that both showed low or no affinity for non-5-HT2 receptors. Reverse dialysis with 5-HT2A antagonists had little or no effect on basal dopamine efflux. However, intracortical administration of MDL 11,939 or M100907 attenuated dopaminerelease induced by systemic administration of the 5-HT2 agonist DOI. Dual-probe microdialysis demonstrated that systemic DOI also increased glutamate concentrations in the ventral tegmental area (VTA). This was blocked by intracortical M100907. Cortical perfusion with M100907, or the atypical antipsychotic drug risperidone, but not the 5-HT2B/C ligand SB 206553, also decreased dopamine release induced physiologically by stress. These results indicate that stimulation of cortical 5-HT2A receptors increases the release of dopamine from the mesocortical system. They suggest that this effect may be mediated by increases in glutamate release from corticotegmental projections to the VTA. Additionally, they indicate that cortical 5-HT2A receptors modulate evoked dopamine release, such as that observed physiologically following mild stress. These findings may have implications for the pharmacological treatment of disorders resulting from or exacerbated by stress.

 

now i'm more confused.

[gamesguru]

Just my guess at generalizing, LSD inhibits the core of the mind [striatum], stimulates the periphery [frontal lobe]?  That's how your sense of self goes down but creative thought and introspection go up?

It's more complicated tho: http://serendip.bryn...derickson3.html

 

If you're ever bored on a weekend morning, these are a fun way to kill time

9m45s:

 

12m25s:

[jaiho]

5HT2A activation is good.

5HT2C activation is bad. You want to agonise 2A, but block 2C.

Blocking 2C disinhibits NE & Dopamine release in the PFC.

 

Most drugs block both, or activate both.

 

Hence, why SSRIs cause sexual side effects, is due to the 5HT2C activation. Prozac, has less occurrences of sexual sides, due to its 5HT2C antagonist action, but in many people it still causes sexual problems. Entirely depends upon the individual, whether the 5HT2C binding is strong enough to release enough Dopamine to offset the excess serotonin activating it.

 

What's odd though, is that i find psychedelics like LSD very pro sexual. Likely due to the 2A agonist action, but perhaps the binding to 2C is not strong enough, and also since it isn't blocking the serotonin transporter. Not to mention the partial D2 agonist action.

 

[jack black]

i know this is old thread, but I wanted to talk more about it. based on the pharmacology of psychedelics (serotonin receptors stimulants leading to down-regulation of the said receptors), microdosing of LSD or DMT should be equivalent to SSRI treatment, or at least low dose SSRI. as we all know, sexual dysfunction is part of SSRI action (via downregulation of 5HT2cR). wouldn't that side effect apply to microdosing of LSD or DMT?

 

thanks!