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earth nature needs humans to survive red sun phase?

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#1 lemon_

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:33 PM


Hi,

You know in like 3 billion years the sun will come to the earth and the earth will just burn..

So maybe the ecosystem/earth NEEDS HUMANS help.. Maybe, when we have the tech, we would bring nature to another planet?...

We humans have gone out into space.
nature has not gone out into space.


think of it, how would nature (trees,grass,rivers,etc) move to another planet after the earth burns for infinite? 


of course, humans are also destroying the earth, but people are starting to get Eco friendly,etc..


what do you think?

is this complete nonsense or maybe a possibility? 


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#2 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 12:47 PM

Very interesting idea.

 

Maybe our mission, or destiny is to protect and preserve the life.


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#3 Antonio2014

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Posted 13 November 2015 - 12:08 AM

The ecosystem will be in extreme danger much earlier. https://en.wikipedia...#Climate_impact

 

And yes, I totally agree that Nature needs men. We must colonize Mars and beyond, not only for us, but for life itself. I think probably our supreme goal is to expand life through the Universe.


Edited by Antonio2014, 13 November 2015 - 12:13 AM.

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#4 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 14 November 2015 - 11:29 AM

We not only can protect life, but also we can resurrect it. 

 

Frozen microorganisms in the north pole ice have been thawed back to life recently. 

 

 

 

 

We have already the technologies to save for an indefinite time period seeds, plants, insects, egg and sperm cells, even embryos of many living things out there. 


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#5 shifter

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 11:27 PM

We should launch hundreds or thousands of pods in many directions in space containing life giving DNA to all corners of the galaxy. Sure we wont be around to see the fruits of our labour but that doesn't matter. For all we know, our planet was seeded in a similar fashion. It is doubtful the human race will survive long enough to personally seed other worlds due to our love affair of trashing this planet, depleting its finite resources and blowing each other up :( So I think it's imperative that if we don't want to be 'extinct' we should leave a mark on a galactic scale future proofed to beyond when our Sun becomes a red giant and swallows the Earth.

 



#6 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 10:05 AM

Isn't it too early to launch these pods? I mean, global deadly cataclisms are away in the time. Plus if you send them today, their thrive is uncertain. If you send them after several centuries, the technology will be advanced enough to ensure the existence of life on another planet after landing. 


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#7 Antonio2014

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 11:08 AM

Sure we wont be around to see the fruits of our labour but that doesn't matter.

 

Sure? I'm not sure at all.

 

For all we know, our planet was seeded in a similar fashion.

 

No, we don't know that.

 

It is doubtful the human race will survive long enough to personally seed other worlds due to our love affair of trashing this planet, depleting its finite resources and blowing each other up :(

 

Huh? If we are depleting its resources, why has population been increasing all this time? The same for blowing each other up. Indeed, it's less and less true:

 

image.jpg


Edited by Antonio2014, 26 November 2015 - 11:09 AM.


#8 shifter

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 08:50 PM

In a billion years, mankind will either be extinct, or completely different to what we know now. In a billion years the oceans on Earth will have most likely evaporated and the tectonic plates will no longer move and a biosphere will no longer be supportive to life (if at all). So unless we have colonised other worlds between now and whenever our own planet is not supportive to human life (which is far less than a billion years), then I say we will not be around to witness a successful seeding of life on another world if we launched one today. My point is, it would not matter or it should not be a reason to not launch one just because the people who constructed it can't be around to see the dream realised. If the human race became extinct and a few million or even billion years later something we did today ended up seeding life on another world then I think that's pretty cool :)

 

We don't know how life was seeded on our world. That's my point. It could have been seeded somehow (by a comet or another civilisation???) Or it might have been spontaneous to Earth. We don't know, but that doesn't mean seeding is impossible

 

There is only so much resources on this planet such as oil and minerals that we are expending faster than what the Earth can make up. We are chopping trees down at a rate of around 11 million per day, a lot more than gets replanted or grown. Our population is increasing sure, and so exponentially is our reliance and dependence on finite resources. Also due to the way our economy works we have become a throw away society and manufactures ensure that all products we buy have a 'planned obsolescence'. You cant just buy a fridge, washing machine or phone and expect it to last you 20-30 years. They ensure it will not function that long and a simple part makes buying a brand new one a cheaper option. The world can not sustain its current population and especially our throw away lifestyle. The population is said to stabilise at around 11-12 billion people. Do you believe we have the resources for 12 billion people all living and demanding the lifestyle 1st world countries enjoy today? And 12 billion people demanding centuries old lifespans?

 

The problem with the waning of war graph is that all it takes is a trigger happy, childish North Korean despot to launch a nuclear device at its neighbour or a terrorist buying a nuclear weapon (and we know they are trying) to start an apocalyptic and biblical style war that they desire and that graph will be turned on its head. The Mutually Assured Destruction policy only ensures there wont be much left of the human race should anything happen. There is a lot of 'profit' for war machines to continue. Until man kind grows up and works toward a common goal for a greater good beyond ones self, I cant see a bright future for the human race.

 

 

This is why I suggest we should launch some ASAP. If we are still around in 200 years with better tech, launch some more. Couldn't hurt. If you are going to continue waiting because 'technology will be better later' then you will never get anything off the ground.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure we wont be around to see the fruits of our labour but that doesn't matter.

 

Sure? I'm not sure at all.

 

 

For all we know, our planet was seeded in a similar fashion.

 

No, we don't know that.

 

It is doubtful the human race will survive long enough to personally seed other worlds due to our love affair of trashing this planet, depleting its finite resources and blowing each other up :(

 

Huh? If we are depleting its resources, why has population been increasing all this time? The same for blowing each other up. Indeed, it's less and less true:

 

image.jpg

 

 


Edited by shifter, 26 November 2015 - 09:09 PM.

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#9 lemon_

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 10:48 AM

wow, thanks.. +rep 



#10 Antonio2014

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 11:32 AM

In a billion years, mankind will either be extinct, or completely different to what we know now. In a billion years the oceans on Earth will have most likely evaporated and the tectonic plates will no longer move and a biosphere will no longer be supportive to life (if at all). So unless we have colonised other worlds between now and whenever our own planet is not supportive to human life (which is far less than a billion years), then I say we will not be around to witness a successful seeding of life on another world if we launched one today. My point is, it would not matter or it should not be a reason to not launch one just because the people who constructed it can't be around to see the dream realised. If the human race became extinct and a few million or even billion years later something we did today ended up seeding life on another world then I think that's pretty cool :)

 

I don't think the seeding will take millions of years. It will take much much less, in the order of hundreds or thousands of years.

 

We don't know how life was seeded on our world. That's my point.

 

We don't know whether life was seeded or it originated in our world. That's my point.

 

It could have been seeded somehow (by a comet or another civilisation???) Or it might have been spontaneous to Earth. We don't know, but that doesn't mean seeding is impossible

 

I didn't said that.

 

There is only so much resources on this planet such as oil and minerals that we are expending faster than what the Earth can make up.

 

Resources' availability depends on technology. For example, if we used breeder reactors, there is enough uranium available for us for providing electricity to mankind for more than 5 billion years: http://sustainablenu...d11983cohen.pdf

 

We are chopping trees down at a rate of around 11 million per day, a lot more than gets replanted or grown.

 

Mankind survival doesn't depend on having big forests. Losing so many trees is not good, for many reasons, but it will not make us extinct.

 

Our population is increasing sure, and so exponentially is our reliance and dependence on finite resources.

 

Nope. As I said, resource usage dependes on technology. If oil is exhausted, we will simply switch to electric or hydrogen cars, etc. Also, population is not increasing exponentially anymore. It will level-off around year 2050 and then slowly decay: https://en.wikipedia...lation_(UN).svg

 

Also due to the way our economy works we have become a throw away society and manufactures ensure that all products we buy have a 'planned obsolescence'. You cant just buy a fridge, washing machine or phone and expect it to last you 20-30 years. They ensure it will not function that long and a simple part makes buying a brand new one a cheaper option. The world can not sustain its current population and especially our throw away lifestyle. The population is said to stabilise at around 11-12 billion people. Do you believe we have the resources for 12 billion people all living and demanding the lifestyle 1st world countries enjoy today? And 12 billion people demanding centuries old lifespans?

 

Huh? Why do you think the "throw away" lifestyle will continue unchanged, even in a scenario of extinguishing mankind?

 

The problem with the waning of war graph is that all it takes is a trigger happy, childish North Korean despot to launch a nuclear device at its neighbour or a terrorist buying a nuclear weapon (and we know they are trying) to start an apocalyptic and biblical style war that they desire and that graph will be turned on its head. The Mutually Assured Destruction policy only ensures there wont be much left of the human race should anything happen. There is a lot of 'profit' for war machines to continue. Until man kind grows up and works toward a common goal for a greater good beyond ones self, I cant see a bright future for the human race.

 

A nuclear war can't extinguish us. It can kill a lot of people, but any single person alive in the world? Not at all. See for example this simulation of a USA-Russia nuclear war using all the bombs they had in 2007:

image.gif

 

It shows the amount of smoke caused by the bombs and the fires caused by them. 150 teragrams of black carbon particles will be injected into the atmosphere. That smoke will cause a global nuclear winter, but the south hemisphere is much less affected, and people there will have a week to get prepared (animation by Luke Oman, NASA, from data in http://onlinelibrary...06JD008235/full ). See also http://www.nasa.gov/...ar-climate.html for other scenarios. Citing from that:

 

We studied the scenario of using 100 Hiroshima-size bombs, the fires from which would inject upward of 5 teragrams (megatons) of black carbon particles into Earth's upper troposphere. Observations of forest fires have shown this to occur on much smaller scales.

On the ground, global temperatures would fall by a little over 1 degree Celsius © (1.8 Fahrenheit (F)) over first three years. In contrast, aerosols from the 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo contributed to about 3/10 of a degree C (~ 0.5 F) of cooling over one year. Black carbon particles are smaller than sulfate particles and can be lofted much higher by solar heating, where their influence on climate can last up to a decade.

 

Let's assume anyway that the bombing kills in a few days or weeks 75% of the northern hemisphere population and 25% of the southern hemisphere population. That would be around 5 billion deaths. Next, let's assume that the nuclear winter, diseases provoked by radiation, socioecomic crisis and general chaos kills 50% of the remaining world population. Still, there would be around 1 billion people alive, the same that in 1810, when Napoleon annexed the kingdom of Holland and Argentina became the first South American state to proclaim independence from Spain. In some decades, human population would recover and the nuclear war would be teached to bored students like those events from 1810.

 


Edited by Antonio2014, 28 November 2015 - 11:42 AM.


#11 lemon_

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 07:59 PM

 but if you look at this, 

 

 

what would the 'creator'/ higher beings say if they exisist, if they knew about that...............

 

do you guys think there's higher beings out there or are we the actually the top thing? 


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#12 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 02:11 PM

I dont believe in God and I dont believe in Aliens.

 

If there is a God, and He made us to protect the life, then His work has a big flaw. Because in order we to be alive, we have to eat other animals or plants. E.g. we have to take lifes of animals and plants in order to live and develope.

 

What we can do about it is helping the different species not to become extinct as species.

 

And prople can be good in this.

 

As far as I know, people  today can do that for plant seeds, animal sex cells and animal embryos. So, at this moment people can ensure, that the existing today species of plants will not extinct independently of the outside conditions.

 

If the cryobiology becomes developed further, entire animals will be possible to be cryopreserved and thawed back, and thus surviving even the hardest external factors.

 

Developing cloning and genetics may allow some day people to be able to resurrect even extinct species.

 

It would be nice if there was a list of key sciences, that must be developed for that to become a 100% reality some day - the ability of the mankind to preserve and resurrect all possible living things.



#13 shifter

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 08:54 PM

I dont believe in God and I dont believe in Aliens.

 

 

Given the infinite vastness of the universe you don't believe that even a single microbe could exist anywhere else? (as technically that life would be considered 'Alien'). Or is it just the Aliens visiting here and conspiracy theories you don't subscribe to.

 

 

Some of the things you mentioned in your previous post was quite helpful (and reassuring), thanks :)

 

 
 



#14 Multivitz

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 05:57 PM

I'm under the expression we originally were orbiting around a small red sun until the current one caught us.
There's been obsevations of low orbits of planets around red suns that haven't been burnt.
There's a magnatude of things that point to us having had a red one.
Anyone else into The Electric Universe? I love how Crothers destroys all the nosense :)
The logic and evidence is in plane sight, I whole heartedly recommend the theory.
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#15 Multivitz

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 07:42 PM

Nonsense, not nosense dear oh dear.
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