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Phenylpiracetam = Adderall - Anxiety


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#1 thedevinroy

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 12:50 AM


200mg very similar to 5mg of mixed amphetamine salts... Except I have no crazy anxiety like with Adderall or Strattera. I realize most people get tapered effects and this is my first experience, so it will be a bit more intense. Speaking of which, I am a bit tense... In the shoulders and neck with some sensations in my head around my ears. Anxiety doesn't quite describe the feeling... But ready to go more like it.

100mg didn't get me anywhere. No reported effects, so I took a second dose an hour later. Mixed it with some Vega protein powder, water, and oil. Admittedly, I was playing with it. Very powdery texture and didn't dissolve in water or oil very fast or all the way.

Anyhow, effects didn't kick in full swing until I had my afternoon tonic: 6oz water, tsp baking soda, 2 tbsp of apple cider vinegar. Drink while fizzy. Since I took it immediately after the second dose, it is possible that it activated the first dose via acetic acid metabolism (important for creating acetylcholine) and sodium channels...

Acute sense of hearing. Very warm, especially in the face. Slight head pressure now. Upon first tasting and ingesting it, my heart rate and BP to go up, but this does not hurt my heart as it does with caffeine. These are still up, possibly in part due to my tonic. Cardiovascular effects did not sustain more than 15 minutes at first dosage of 100mg. Hopeful since this has long reported half life.

Now feeling tension in my back. Tingling in hands and feet which are now warm like I had hot cocoa and have stopped tingling. Notice increased forethought. All signs of increased norepinephrine. Can see why people use it for studying! As with most NA stims, you should combine with something to lighten up calcium channels... Like with magnesium. Always had good synergy with Adderall and magnesium oxide to smoothen out some of the effects.

Alright, ready to get to work. I just had to write down my experience real quick.

Edited by devinthayer, 16 June 2016 - 01:12 AM.


#2 thedevinroy

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 11:34 AM

To extend my experience, I had difficulty wanting to go to sleep. 11:30pm I took 50mg of 5-HTP and a full spectrum Cat's Claw. When 1am roled around, I was still stimulated, blood pumping through my veins. I closed my eyes and fell asleep within minutes regardless. I even woke up with the same stimulating feeling once I started breathing normal (not sleepy breathing).

This morning I took a half dose. I'm surprised with the long half life. I didn't expect to wake up and feel stimulated still when I took last dose at 8:30pm. We'll see how the day goes on Phenylpiracetam brain and 5 hours of sleep.

Edited by devinthayer, 16 June 2016 - 11:35 AM.


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#3 thedevinroy

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 11:41 AM

Now have been taking Phenylpiracetam for almost two weeks. Many people report tolerance, which would mean you could get the original effects of you increased your dose. This simply is not true. What we mistake for initial effects are really initial side effects. I still am clearer, more attentive, more motivated like in a light Concerta dose, but I have almost none of the other "noticeable" effects one would experience from something like amphetamines or methylphenidate - that dirty stim feeling I first got and described in detail.

In my opinion, this is a plus. I can easily increase my dose and find synergies with something easily obtained without prescription that has low side effects. There is some heightened blood pressure, but this subsides in an hour or two.

So far, I am at 150mg dose per morning and maybe a later dose of 100mg midday. Seems to synergize extremely well with Tyrosine.

Edited by devinthayer, 27 June 2016 - 11:46 AM.


#4 thedevinroy

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 02:42 PM

Also, I crave less caffeine but more fruit and salt. Sour salty cravings are not uncommon for me, so perhaps it's been more noticeable in the absence of the caffeine cravings.

Edited by devinthayer, 27 June 2016 - 02:44 PM.


#5 Junk Master

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 12:07 AM

Interestingly, I found myself craving pickles.  Though admittedly that could be because of the hot weather as well.  Still the cravings were unusually intense.  I had the same reaction you did...nothing on a 100 mg dose, but quickly developed a headache and needed to eat two poached eggs and wait 45 min on 200 mg.

 

Still don't know what to think of this stuff as it doesn't play well with modafinil, and doesn't give me the manic lift and increased verbal fluency I get from intermittent, albeit large doses of piracetam.

 

I would not go as far as you do and compare it to amphetamine because I always get a big ol' dopamine dump from amphetamine if I haven't taken it in a while, and I noticed more NA feeling here.

 

Good write up!


Oh, can't wait to try your apple cider vinegar and baking soda pick me up!  Nice.



#6 thedevinroy

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 04:01 AM

My first batch I got from an Irish place, found them on Bonanza.  Best price at the 5 gram.  I had a little bit left coming back from Vegas (only packed a multi, Huperzine A, Ashwagandha, and Hair & Nails by It Works).  Finished it up last week, but had to ration the last gram, so I waned off it.  The last day, I substituted Pramiracetam for mental agility and Pseudoephedrine for the focus.  Honestly, that switch was intense and kept me up kind of late.  When the Pseudoephedrine wore off, I was pretty zombified.

 

For the 10 gram, I thought I'd read around a little bit before purchasing.  I bought powder city and noticed good reviews within the past week, which was a good sign it was probably a good batch.

 

Last night, when the batch came in, I had a little bit like 50mg.  I double checked the packaging, and sure enough, the details on the scooping was way different from the Bonanza stuff.  Same consistency, but the volumetric measurements were different.  I put 4x densely packed and flattened 0.15cc scoops into a one 0.5ml scoop, not densely packed.  Since 1 cc = 1 mL, something seems a little off, no?  The Bonanza stuff said to put a rounded fluffy scoop, which made me think... I haven't been taking 150mg, I've been taking 400mg.

 

I don't have a scale, but I can see why I should probably get one.

 

To continue my story, the 50mg kept me up a little, but my sleep quality was like cray cray good according to the sleep cycle app on my iPhone.  Vivid dreams, can't remember them, but I tossed and turned for a good amount, so I thought.  But I guess it was all just the last 10 minutes before waking up.  Weird, right?  To help me wake up, I made a concoction: 10 oz water, 3mg methylene blue, 1/4 tsp baking soda, potassium chloride (10% DV), 200mg phenylpiracetam, and 1 tbsp of white vinegar.  I figured it would help care about life instead of sleep, but to my demise, after sucking down this mixture that tasted slightly better than detergent, I went back to sleep for 20 minutes, hit snooze, woke up 10 minutes later and took another 150mg of Phenylpiracetam.  I was more late this morning than all week.  40 minutes late, and then I forgot to sign in.  Kicked in 4 hours after taking it with a slight headache that waxed and waned all day just to let me know it was working (or not).

 

I did not have a terribly productive day, despite usual signs of stimulation: forgetting you have to pee, losing track of time, moderate energy levels, sensitivity to caffeine, remembering to snack only when super hungry, reduced daydreaming, and some other things that are probably the effect of Pramiracetam like tendency to skim instead of linearly read, a love for clutter and distraction, desire for noise, increased verbal fluidity, desire for broad learning, and a socializing personality.  However, I did not have the effects I wanted: increased mental capacity, forethought and clarity, being able to stop while I'm ahead, saying no to distractions (very much drawn to them, automatically and impulsively even), "feeling time" instead of being surprised with how long things were taking, planning and prioritizing instead of jumping into whatever popped into my head, etc.

 

So that was my very unproductive Friday at work.  I got home around 5:15ish, and had the feeling I should do some important things.  I just kept pacing until I could figure out which one to do first.  I still had the slight headache, mind you.  I decided to work out a little bit, since I have the basement with some weights in it.  I took 100mg of Phenylpiracetam and 50mg of Noopept and just swished em around with some spit for 5 minutes while I dilly dallied.  As a side note, bench pressing with sublingual piracetam analogues in your mouth is not pleasant; little drops squeak past the back of your tongue, shooting it into the back of your throat and making you wonder if you are going to cough and spew out your expensive unscheduled drugs.  I swallowed half way through my first set.

 

After some moderate lifting and light cardio, I came back upstairs from the creepy basement, turned on the AC and drank a cold tall glass of coffee with lactaid milk.  It was then when I realized that my headache went away.  After that, I made a couple phone calls, ordered food, did the dishes, farted around on the computer, ate the food, got distracted with some snapchat feeds (completely missing the fact that the food was still out; my sister put those away, and I didn't even think to get up and help, which is unusual for me), and finally had a nice hell-a-reah.  My 4th BM of the day, all extremely loose and chemically smelling.  I'd love to chalk it up to a side effect of Phenylpiracetam, but I'm just going to say that it is also very likely the foods I ate: apple with peanut butter, peanuts, Chinese food, and Japanese food - all of which I did not have the day before, except the peanuts.  I'm pretty grease and fiber sensitive, since plain carbs (and thus majority binding foods) annoy me and cheese isn't always on my list of daily foods.

 

I will say that I felt 50% better after having some tea.  I remembered that the tannins in black tea can help with hell-a-reah by removing more water from the stool somehow.  The tea also restored my energy back to that moderate level I was talking about before.

 

Yeah...

 

So that's way more information than you wanted to know, but now I can't use this as an excuse to not do actual work anymore.  It's kind of like organizing your desk before you do something important.  My mind is my desk, and I wanted to share this experience, since no one really goes into detail of their experiences that honestly with phenylpiracetam anymore, since it's an older drug. I feel like it is my duty to society.

 

In recap, times added...

 

  1. Waned off Phenylpiractem, took a 1 day break, then 100mg @ 7:30pm, went to bed at 11:30pm.  Slept deep, but didn't feel rested.
  2. Drank 200mg dissolved in tonic at 5:50am.  Had no immediate effects apart from foul taste.  Was able to go back to sleep.  Slept for 30 more minutes.
  3. Took 150mg more at 6:25am.  Felt no effects until 10:30am, in which a slight headache began and persisted.
  4. Seemed to have a "horse blinders" effect but still very much had core ADD/CDD symptoms, especially poor executive functioning from impulsivity and low mental capacity.
  5. Tea seemed to help after having bathroom troubles, which were frequent.
  6. Took 100mg before workout with a little Noopept, and after the workout, the headache went away.
  7. Had small period of productivity of things needing to get done, but none on the computer.

My guess as to why my executive functioning is fried today is three fold: 1) Phenylpiracetam was not able to overcome my sleep deprivation from a continuous streak - 6.25 hours/night on average of the course of 4 days; 2) I was dealing with some pseudoephedrine hangover, and 3) I've noticed that the non-titration-based effects are a little accumulative - so it is still building up in my system again.  I really should have taken a lot more this morning, done a little work out, and had some dang bread with breakfast.  In retrospect, I should have packed a capsule of Noopept for the possible headache.

 

My theory on titration-based (side) effects is that this is what most people think of from "phenylpiracetam tolerance".  I think this is BS - like the dopamine receptors are downregulating and all that and there is no happy place.  Na, that's super naive.  If you've ever taken a drug with high efficacy, it knocks you sideways with "side effects" or even what I like to call "initial effects" if you are a first time user (since the drug is foreign, and your body doesn't know the drill yet).  When you go up a dose, BAM!, it knocks you sideways again - same side effects.  These are side effects only possible with titration - going up a dose.  It is also possible that the "side effects" could be desired, which is why they are in quotes.  Finally, the side effects wear off, and you get the full effect of the drug.  Tolerance can still happen at this point, but it takes months or years to develop.  In many cases, you can go up a dose or switch drugs.

 

Types of effects:

  • Placebo - The effect of anticipation often messes with studies,  For instance, the act of being measured or observed often leads to a feeling of compulsion to perform, like turning up or down the lights in a room.  Another example is you feel a burp coming on and think the pill gave you gas, but you wouldn't have otherwise noticed it if you hadn't been paying attention, so is it the pill or breakfast?  If your attitude is good, then you'll only pay attention to the good stuff.
  • Initial - Body doesn't know how to reach homeostasis with this foreign compound, so it reacts differently this time than any other time.  Examples: sensations, euphoria, migraines, mental clarity, high energy, fatigue, nausea, etc.
  • Not in a Long Time - Body doesn't quite remember how to react, but like riding a bike, it often figures it out a little faster.
  • Titration - Body doesn't know how to react to this dose, or doesn't remember.  Effects are typically the same as initial reactions, with some exclusions applicable.  For instance, a properly titrated dose might not produce sensations but still produce anxiety, which may or may not be worse the second stage.
  • Longer Term (Lasting) - Body knows how to act and re-adjusts to the drug as almost as if it is a daily nutrient.  The body finds a new homeostasis.  In Phenylpiracetam, I believe this is a wakefulness and general mental momentum, but I'm hoping it also includes better executive functioning.  I read one study that states that it upregulates nicotinic receptors, which is awesome.  I miss my nicotine...
  • Tolerance - Body discovers new ways of resisting the drug, or worse, is damaged by repeat use.  Tolerance can be fast or slow, depending on the receptors affected.  For instance, necrosis and even massive apoptosis in the brain releases several signals to surrounding cells and even the whole body to beware of toxins, and depending on the cell, the cell could respond by committing suicide, doing nothing, or adjusting its signals to prevent a similar fate.  Tolerance can be inherent - meaning your chemistry is already set up to resist the drug.  You can overcome non-toxic tolerance by going up a dose, and you can overcome toxic tolerance by replacing the drug with a safer alternative (never the same effect, but it's human to miss).  

I shouldn't say that tolerance isn't tolerance in the eye of the beholder.  I'm saying you need to look at it differently.  You just have to realize that it is a possibility that you're not satisfied with the longer term effects at your inherent tolerance levels.

 

Put it this way.  My first psych told me that we try people on stimulants to enhance their performance, since those with ADHD do not see a decline in effects from a drug like Adderall, but normal people do not see the same benefits over time.  He is making an observation that implies that those with ADHD see different long term effects than those without.  Your inherent chemistry may not see a "benefit" to phenylpiracetam, so it goes back to normal.  It's like a new guy at the office - if you never click, you just ignore him.


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#7 thedevinroy

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 02:30 AM

I have officially run out of my second batch.  I'm disappointed with the cost, as well as the potency even once built up to levels for consistent effects.  To maximize the effects, this is what I have done:

  1. Take 400 mg sublingually in the morning, first thing after I ingest the capsuled supplements.
  2. Take 250mg out the door, before I go to work.  1-2 hours apart.
  3. Never miss a day.  Like NRI's, the effects seem to build up over time.
  4. Gradually increase the dose from 100mg + 50mg first day, 250mg + 150mg the second day, then the 400mg + 250mg dose.
  5. Side note: I am a broad guy, so this is 7.5mg/kg for me.  Adjust for your body weight.

As you can imagine, that 10g only lasted me less than 20 days.  As a general rule, I don't pay more than $5/day total or $1/day per supplement.  This pushed me way over budget seeing as how fast it was gone.

 

As to how I arrived at this dosing scheme, I remembered back to when I first took Strattera (atomoxetine), a very potent NRI.  Noticing similar effects here, I thought I could do a similar trick.  On Strattera, I would take it with a very little bit of food, wait for the tingling side effects or just a hint of nervousness, then pound a heavily caffeinated drink (at the time, it was MDX, remember that?) which would literally leave me shaking with energy.  This would bring me clear into the next day with hardly any effect if I got the timing wrong (too early).  Peak plasma concentration of caffeine is 20 to 30 minutes and peak concentration of atomoxetine was 1 to 2 hours, so the trick was to have them occur at the same time.  Phenylpiracetam seems like an NRI (like atomoxetine) but is shaped like a release agent (not quite like caffeine directly, but indirectly, same effect), so I thought maybe it is a little bit of both, especially based on my first experience... so it is basically the atomoxetine and the caffeine in my trick.  Unfortunately, not very much like either, just enough like them to affect my dosing scheme.

 

Gave me a general drive to power through things.  Not great at increasing mental capacity, but it is great at increasing mental stamina.  I wish it kicked in a little harder, and then I wouldn't have to space out the doses like that.  If it also increased mental capacity and clarity, I'd be all over buying more and wipe out the rest of my cabinet.  As I heard someone say, "Pseudophedrine is a more powerful stimulant."  They're right.  I'd be better off spending my money on pseudoephedrine and other decongestants.  Sure, you get the anxiety without the courage, but at least you get to work earlier.


Edited by devinthayer, 01 August 2016 - 02:50 AM.





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