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Cryonic and suicide

suicide cryonic

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#1 Emanuel

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 10:30 AM


Hi Guys,
 
I have ALS and can not wait for natural death. Therefore I would have to combine the suicide and the cryostasis. In Switzerland this is unfortunately not possible, since the corpse for official things is released after hours for the cryostasis, do you have other ideas?
 
Best regards Emanuel
English Donate Page and more info (in german): vorurteilsfrei.jimdo.com

Edited by Emanuel, 07 October 2016 - 10:31 AM.


#2 YOLF

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 04:42 AM

Hmmm... the Society for Venturism recently handled the case of Aaron Winborn(e) who had ALS, don't forget J147, it's available and can apparently stop ALS if you get it early enough? 

 

In either case, if the body is released within hours and you can get some heparin or maybe aspirin in you before hand, and be kept on ice, or do the process on a bed of ice packs, you should get a fairly decent cryopreservation. Oregon Cryonics is also located in Oregon where you can get physician assisted suicide if you have 6 months to live, and they do cryonics, but I suppose you could get stored with Alcor or CI as well if you have them on standby, so I would look into that as well. Talking to the cryonics companies is probably the best way to start.


Oh, you should look into getting support from the Society for Venturism as well. They are generally the organ of our community that helps people raise money for cryopreservation and certifies their need. LongeCity also does fundraisers for cases such as yours.


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#3 YOLF

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 04:45 AM

http://www.venturist...what-we-do.html



#4 YOLF

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 05:22 AM

Perhaps also of interest:

http://www.alcor.org...rkLeeMiller.pdf



#5 Emanuel

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 11:20 AM

Hi YOLF,
 
big thanks for the reply! I also have contacted Vewnturist, but i don't have get an reply. Maybe i need a donate page in english or it takes more time. Anyway, if the site is in english, i will contact the company again. Maybe they need more informations? Perhaps it is too early in my illness?
 
I think in oregon it's necessary to life in oregon for the suicide, but i will check the option! Thanks for the tip. 
 
The tip with J147 is also top! I will do some research for this, maybe i don't need cryonic. :D 
 
I have have also written alcor, but they want the money for the cryonic for the support, so i have the find the information on other ways. 
 
I will keep you up to date!
 
Best Regards
Emanuel 
 
 
 

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#6 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 06:06 PM

Hi !

 

Two things come to to my mind while reading your post. 

 

First is that loosing all of your memories may not be enough to commit a suicide in terms of cryonics. This is because even the normal human brain has tha ability to forget. We, people, normally don't remember more than 90% of the day we live. If you try to remember for example, what has happened 20 years ago, in your early childhood, you will remember only a dozen of single happenings at the best. After one long enough period of time you will not have your todays memories, and your memories will be replaced with new ones.

 

So, if you compare the pathway: 

living to your natural death->loosing all of your memories ->cryonics->resurrection ->immortalizing ->repair brain -> living with new memories

with: 

comitting suicide  -> cryonics -> resurrectiion -> immortalizing -> living long enough to loose your start memories -> living with new memories 

What is the difference? 

 

 

 

The second thing

If you are still very sure of your choice to suicide before the totalmemories loss, then I know, that some countries have allowed the such called "euthanasia", e.g. they have allowed suiciding with medical help. In Holand I heared, they have allowed an authanasia of a woman, suffereing from a post traumatic disorder. It is theoretically possible you to move to one of these countries, and make a really good timing with the cryopreservation companies, so you to commit your suicide, and then very fast to be cooled down, transported and cryopreserved. 


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#7 Emanuel

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 06:17 PM

Hi seivtcho,
 
i don't get your first point ... but, the suicide is first of all to reduce the pain in my "first life". 
ALS is horrible and i don't think i can take all of the "als shit", so i think the suicide is not really optional. 
 
Second, the problem is not the suicide/ assisted death, it's the handling with the body after the death. 
In Switzerland the cryonic can only start after hours, so this is to late. 
I will contact the authorities of the Netherlands. Maybe i have here more luck. 
 
best regards 
Emanuel 
 


#8 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 06:28 PM

 

Hi seivtcho,
 
i don't get your first point ... 

 

 

The firs point was, that if you live long enough your start memories will be destroyed no matter if you have ALS or not. 



#9 Emanuel

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 06:31 PM

With ALS one does not live very long.



#10 YOLF

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 06:42 PM

Yes, Oregon requires you to live there. But maybe you could get some kind of refugee status.

 

J147 synthesis was originally fundraised by ALS patients who were reporting great success with it. 


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#11 Emanuel

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 06:55 PM

Yes, Oregon requires you to live there. But maybe you could get some kind of refugee status.

 

 

Any idea which person should i contact?


Edited by Emanuel, 08 October 2016 - 06:55 PM.


#12 YOLF

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 07:09 PM

Perhaps someone at Oregon Cryonics would be best? There was a woman who lived there with a brain tumor who got assisted suicide, not sure if she got cryonics though...



#13 MaximilianKohler

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 09:34 PM

This might be relevant: https://www.reddit.c..._the_latest_ci/


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#14 elfanjo

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 09:06 PM

How about Canada? I think assisted suicide is legal under certain conditions. It is close enough from CI.
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#15 Emanuel

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:20 AM

I think Canada is an option: 

 

 

 

​In 2013
, we had an individual approach us who is an estate attorney. They had an interest in cryonics from a professional perspective. They took it upon themselves to visit the Chief Coroner's Office and ask about the Office's attitude towards cryonics. 
 
The feedback was positive in that the Office did not take a dismissive or adversarial attitude towards cryonics. Instead
,
they responded as they probably would if one refused an autopsy for a myriad of other reasons. So long as there was no prevailing public interest in the autopsy, such as in the result of crime or risk of
​an ​
epidemic
 they indicated that they had no interest in interfering. 
 
Unfortunately I cannot provide 
​a written reference as that was in conversation. I can try to contact this attorney to see if they ever wrote an article or paper on the matter. I am copying that individual privately on this message. 
 
Christine​

https://groups.yahoo...ns/topics/10378

But we have to clear the point a little bit better. 

Best Regards 
Emanuel 
 



#16 JappieHoekstra

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 07:02 PM

 

In Switzerland the cryonic can only start after hours, so this is to late. 
I will contact the authorities of the Netherlands. Maybe i have here more luck. 
 

 

I'm from The Netherlands. Euthanasia in NL is only available to local citizens, not to foreigners. To avoid euthanasia tourism.

 

And even when you live in The Netherlands, it might be difficult and require devoted planning. A doctor has to be willing to assist you and follow a certain protocol (government information in Dutch: https://www.rijksove...ud/euthanasie).Since there is a maximum jail sentence of 12 years for the doctor who doesn't strictly follow the protocol, I can imagine a doctor thinking twice before sticking their hands in the fire for a cryonics case, in the same way a cryonics service provider is reluctant to handle cryonics suicides.

 

Finding the right doctor in the right jurisdiction would be essential to you at this stage. Perhaps contacting Dignitas in Switzerland is still an option to you, advance planning with them might be able to speed up operations. It would at least be interesting to every other cryonicist.


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#17 Emanuel

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 03:54 PM

Hi Guys,
 
I have made an update on the site, now you can hear my story as audio on the site in English, about a feedback / suggestions for improvement I would be very happy!
Best Regards Emanuel


#18 Emanuel

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 05:15 PM

Now my Story is on reddit: https://www.reddit.c...6it&sh=4c36a19c

Best Regards,
Emanuel


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#19 caliban

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 09:47 AM

A few ground rules for threads like these that flow directly from our general user agreement, and that may be different from how the discussion is dealt with on reddit and elsewhere.   

 

1) The threadstarter has asked about cryonics for ALS. While LongeCity values life and cures for all diseases this is not a question about ALS treatments or different diagnostic or coping strategies. Such discussions are off-topic. Similarly, on LongeCity cryonics is recognized as a reputable if remote life extension technology. Comments about the general utility of cryonics, are also off-topic.

 

2) The threadstarter has asked about 'suicide' - LongeCity's mission is to combat "involuntary death" -- and to protect life wherever desired. A willful transition to a cryo-preserved state is incompatible with sustaining life according to most current legal definitions. Any advice or strategies that are discussed here must be understood with the proviso that local laws should always be upheld. No comment, whether from someone who has an official capacity at LC or otherwise should be interpreted to contradict this, and no private arrangements must be made on LongeCity that would break local applicable laws.         

 

3) in the Reddit post the threadstarter is soliciting donations. LongeCity has a cryonics hardship fund. Currently, this case is not connected to that fund.  



#20 Emanuel

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 12:52 PM

Hello caliban,
 
thanks for you reply! If i have done somethin wrong with the thread, i'm sry!

First, the question with the suicide was only because, should I have the FTD version of the ALS, a cryonics after the natural death would no longer make a sense. (As with Alzheimer's patients). Fortunately it does not look right now. The FTDs seem to have been psychologically conditioned. So that would be lapsed. We can delete this point if it is better for the thread. Of course we can also delete all OT! :)
 
Secend, at the moment i was in contact with Stephan Beauregard, he will help me with the donaten project. And i have also mailed venturism. For any further tip I would be very grateful!
 
Best regards,
Emanuel 
 


#21 YOLF

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 08:39 PM

Keep us posted, and don't give up!


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#22 Emanuel

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 08:59 PM

Thank you for your interest!
 
At the moment it seems that I will soon be diagnosed with a deadly disease, the disease is rapidly advancing. The first newspaper is already interested in the story. :)

Here are the latest news (unfortunately only in German): http://cryomani.de/blog

Best regards,
Emanuel


#23 Antonio2014

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 12:41 PM

There was a thread on suicide and cryonics somewhere in the forum. Anyway, I think a good starting point is this page at Alcor: http://www.alcor.org...eservation.html Probably they have more current information now, try ask them. Try asking also KrioRus, maybe antisuicide law isn't so strict in Russia. Good luck!

 

 


Edited by Antonio2014, 15 December 2016 - 01:00 PM.

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#24 YOLF

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 01:55 PM

You can get medical/physician assisted suicide in Oregon after living there for 6 months. But given your situation, I really think they'd make an exception for you.


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#25 Simi

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 04:52 AM

 

 
 
Second, the problem is not the suicide/ assisted death, it's the handling with the body after the death. 
In Switzerland the cryonic can only start after hours, so this is to late. 
I will contact the authorities of the Netherlands. Maybe i have here more luck. 
 
 

 

 

This is not strictly true.

 

It depends on how you die.  In fact your best shot at revival coincides with this - specifically the sort of death that Doctors already use to lower core temperature to the point where you are dead (..so that they can usually perform some sort of surgery that requires your heart not beating and pumping blood). Plus, blood can be pumped out during that process (substituted for cold salt water) and that will probably add some additional "time" for pumping in the cryoprotectant.  (..the reason this sort of death is a better shot at revival is a slow starving of oxygen to the brain which prevents brain cell death, though even more important is on the revival end - not introducing oxygen too quickly which kills off brain cells..)

 

-still, I wouldn't recommend unless you are nearing your end.  (IMO the problem is the chemicals that they pump into bodies to keep cellular structure intact - I really doubt that you would be revived as you with these current methods.)  This is not to say that you shouldn't plan for it though - that's something you should consult with an attorney to make sure your wishes are carried-out: specifically when and how.  I'd also recommend creating a video archive of your memories on a medium (and playback mechanism if required) that will withstand more than 500 years (..and I'd recommend that even if we had better preservation methods), along with having a trust funded for your future needs (including cryo maintenance if not covered by insurance, or actually - even if covered by insurance). I'd personally add-in items of sentimental value and music you value for archival (..that could help trigger memories).

 

 

 

In the mean time I'd starting looking at various sources on ALS treatments on the web.  Here is one that pops-up with a quick search:

 

http://abc7.com/heal...-study/1155201/

 

 

-get in a similar study (and do whatever you can not to become a control/placebo), get well, and good luck!


Edited by Simi, 05 January 2017 - 05:41 AM.

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#26 Emanuel

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:27 PM

Hi guys,

 

thanks for the respone. At the moment i'm really deep in the ALS treatments, at the moment i want to try an RIPK1 Inhibitor, but i don't know which seller i can trust on lookchem, any ideas? I Need Necrostatine1s, or GSK2982772 or gsk' 963.

Best regards Emanuel 


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#27 N.T.M.

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 09:02 PM

After hours? If that's true, I'd be astonished if cryostasis were used at all. The amount of damage to the brain at that point would be immeasurable. While you could in theory be resurrected by "filling in" the missing tissue, you almost certainly wouldn't be anything like the person you were before you died. 

 

Would moving be a possibility? 







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