49 replies to this topic

[Mango]

 

 

 

 

It is not what is taught in schools.

 

What about revolutions? Do you believe that Romanovs were slain because people wanted it?

 

Seriously or not, but you are way too gullible and I don't mean it as an insult, but as a fact..

 

 

That bit about the WWII was taught to me in school. You are a liar.

 

I have no interest in history, I spend my time on science and philosophy, so I don't know anything about the Russians and probably more than half of the nutty shit you believe.  I really couldn't care less.

 

Seriously or not, you're an idiot.  Or a nutter.  Take your pick.

 

Did you know that it's possible to be too gullible for anti-intellectual garbage just because you have a suspicious and conservative personality?

 

You embody it.

 

Bye.

 

 

Since you have no interest (and clearly no knowledge) in history you can't claim that revolutions come spontaneously when the majority of the people is not satisfied with something. It was a very bald statement, one that you had nothing to back up with.

 

With so many ad hominem arguments you are behaving like an irrational woman, not a man.

 

As I was saying before, the rich won't let you have immortality, ever. If they find a cure for death they will distribute it among themselves, this way or another and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it because you are just a resource for them, nothing more. It hurts I know, but truth very often does. In fact, there is a distinct possibility that there already is a way to "cheat" death, but you certainly won't know of it even if there is one.

 

The only thing you can do is swallow magic powders in hopes of becoming super smart lol. Oh yeah, and ramble about justice and injustice in the world. That much you are Allowed.

 

Sweet dreams.
 

[Duchykins]

Women this, women that.  Women are irrational, women are devious, women destroy men's lives (because that's how powerful they are?).

 

Says the jackass who denies having an irrational problem with women.  

 

And was caught trying to be omniscient like a schizophrenic.

 

And spends his time hanging around a life extension site while claiming that it's not possible for the little guy to have access to the such elixirs.

 

 

[Mango]

Women this, women that.  Women are irrational, women are devious, women destroy men's lives (because that's how powerful they are?).

 

Says the jackass who denies having an irrational problem with women.  

 

And was caught trying to be omniscient like a schizophrenic.

 

And spends his time hanging around a life extension site while claiming that it's not possible for the little guy to have access to the such elixirs.

 

Unfortunately, society will believe anything a woman says. There are three reasons for that. First is that there are men who are manginas, hoping to get some if they back up a woman (even though they disagree with her), there are those that are deluded that the woman is speaking the truth and those that don't want to bother since they think they are immune anyway (high earning banksters, politicians, etc.)

 

Now, I could say that you are nervous because you lack arguments and that I understand your frustration, but I don't want to do that. Instead I believe in giving second chances.

 

Learning is a life time process and you shouldn't feel upset if someone gives you some facts you weren't previously aware of. You should be thankful for such a mind opening experience, even more so since it is free of charge.

 

You should really man up love.

[Duchykins]

I lack arguments for what? I have to argue that I don't accept your assertions at face value? Your claims of conspiracy and mass murder without satisfying your own burden of evidence?

You should have spent more time studying science and philosophy and less time with Alex Jones & Co.

Keep trying to pretend you don't think women are less than men (while believing that women paradoxically have more power than men).

Maybe you should 'man up' yourself, whatever that means.

Edited by Duchykins, 05 August 2015 - 08:44 PM.

[Mango]

I lack arguments for what? I have to argue that I don't accept your assertions at face value? Your claims of conspiracy and mass murder without satisfying your own burden of evidence?

You should have spent more time studying science and philosophy and less time with Alex Jones & Co.

Keep trying to pretend you don't think women are less than men (while believing that women paradoxically have more power than men).

Maybe you should 'man up' yourself, whatever that means.

 

What sort of evidence would suffice for a closed mind such as yours? I started to talk about the October revolution to prove that your theory of spontaneous revolutions is flawed. Your answer was, I will parafrase, "I am not interested in history and Russia and whatever." Now, what was I expected to say to such a person..?

 

Nosce te ipsum Duchykins. Only then will you be able to understand the world around you.

 

There is no room for ego when facts are involved.

 

I don't think that women are less than men, but I do believe that they are not questioned by todays society, for this reason or another. Everything a woman says is usually accepted as an ultimate truth. I believe that women piss, shit and fart just as men do and there is nothing magical about it. Everyone should be treated equally, even when it comes to facing repercussions for what you did.

 

Regarding conspiracy theories..I already explained why such a term even exists. It is so the society would control itself through rediculization of those whose ideas collide with the mainstream/generally accepted ideas. There is no logical syllogism in affirming general view as the right one - "Most of them say it is, so it has to be truth!" Sometimes you have to dig deep under, connect few dots, let all sides be heard and then you extract the essence which can be a bit closer to truth than just accepting whatever is being served to you on a silver plate. Everything that is given away easily usually is bullshit. From 10000 ways of becoming rich, to health advices, etc. In order to truly know something you have to read a book or two, not internet articles..

[Duchykins]

Still no evidence, instead we get the argument 'you're just ignorant, closed-minded, blind and stupid if you don't believe what I say.' You sound like a proselytizing Muslim or Christian getting increasingly desperate and cranky because they're being asked to substantiate claims they can't properly substantiate.

Edited by Duchykins, 05 August 2015 - 09:19 PM.

[Mango]

Ahh..I asked before, what sort of evidence do you need? What is an evidence for you? Someone's "vlog", "blog", "forum" or a web site, a link perhaps?

 

I didn't say you were ignorant just way too conservative in a field that requires an open mind.

 

I don't know how old are you, but most younger folks today are relying way too much on the internet garbage and too little on the books. Internet can offer a lot of info, that's true, however it can also be easily used to manipulate people, same way TV is being used for decades. To form your opinion, morals, etc.

 

In gathering facts it's best to be conservative - books, objects

In thinking however you have to combine logic And intuition.

 

So if someone says Napoleon had diarrhea at Waterloo don't wave off the idea with your hand. Instead try to find it out for yourself before making any "a priori" conclusions.

 

It is good to be critical, but not so good when you don't want to reevaluate your knowledge or whatever is that you think you know..

[Duchykins]

I'm "way too conservative in a field that requires an open mind." 

 

Hmm.  Intelligent Design creationists have been telling me the same thing for more than a decade.  Isn't that weird?  I guess they were right after all.

 

 

I only have one standard of evidence, one standard of logic.  Blogs, vlogs, documentaries & sources with naked ideologies typically do not pass muster since I prefer to at least have access to the primary sources.  Primary sources tend to reveal how poorly, weirdly or accurately people can interpret the bare facts, even with benevolent intentions.  All of us are operating under at least two cognitive biases at all times, which is just the human condition.

 

However if I don't have access to any primary source then I will analyze the material for fallacious reasoning and decide whether or not to spend any more time on the subject.  If I don't find bad logic then I will look for the evidence against whatever is being claimed, again scan for bad logic, and then compare the two (or three) sides, assuming things get that far.

 

 

You intimated that some rich people killed a whole bunch of people on a plane just to get at one passenger.  Let me think ... News coverage?  Investigative agencies fired up over it?  Leaked documents?  Stuff like that.

 

Keep in mind that whatever links you give me, I will immediately but briefly survey the entire site to get a general idea of things that are considered acceptable material for publishing on the site.  This has nothing to do with you or this topic, it's been a habit of mine for years.  I do with with websites, books, schools, peer-reviewed papers (I check out the authors, journal and publisher), blah blah blah.

 

I always combine deductive and intuitive reasoning. 

 

So hopefully that will help you narrow things down and save time.

Edited by Duchykins, 06 August 2015 - 03:31 AM.

[Mango]

It would seem that you prefer going from general to specific.

 

Anyway, most articles are imbued with subjectivity, some as you said benevolently, but some tendentiously as a part of its house policy. Facts themselves are rarely fabricated when it comes to events that occurred sometime in the human history. However, causes that preceded them are usually written/imposed by the winners.

 

Even from the ancient times conquering armies often burnt libraries so they could re-write history to fit their own personal needs. We don’t have Nazism anymore, but that Fahrenheit 451 scenario is happening right now even as we speak. Since most people rely on the internet they are hence more prone to very subtle conditioning which they are naturally not even aware of. From product placements of marginal importance to some extremely important morals altering messages.

 

Now, I don’t have an evidence of this, but think about it for a second. What is the reason behind making tv shows, internet/pc games, etc.? A financial profit? Yes, possibly, but is it just about that? Highly unlikely..Could it be that the real goal is a social alienation? So the people would shut the door behind them and start considering internet as their mistress, a friend, a father figure? As a consequence you get an intellectual epsilon minus with an inflated ego that is dangerous to himself and his surroundings. Even more so since that person was heavily desensitised over the years by watching violent movies, playing violent games, etc.

 

Books can’t be edited. Once they are written they will remain as such for centuries. Articles, and everything else published online can be edited every second which makes them far less reliable as opposed to books or some other physically printed material.

 

The problem is that you have a government whose dominant strategy is to divert people from real issues (usually accomplished through political duopoly) so they could be more easily controlled.  Ultimately you get an almighty Ministry of truth imposing its dogma onto the brainwashed populace that happily embraces it so their notion of the system would stay intact. Conformity should never stand in the way of reality..

 

Imagine now that as a kid (who can't seem to forget anything) you read in the newspapers about a couple that was claiming to have found a cure for HIV crashing down in a plane accident. Years later another “batch” of HIV scientists crash. Again,  many years later you get to see this:

 

http://www.businessi...ia-mh-17-2014-7

 

Intriguing but inconclusive you could say, though not to be dismissed lightly. At least, in my humble opinion.

 

P.S. English is not my native tongue so I could have some grammar mistakes.

 

 

 

[Duchykins]

I see that.  Disturbing.

 

From the perspective of a calculating, crafty ring of wealthy bastards, this doesn't look like a smart move, killing a whole bunch of people like that.  It's less suspicious to kill HIV researchers and activists off one by one, and shouldn't be difficult to do since many of them work at one time or another out in the field, in the boonies, areas with poor infrastructure and therefore poor investigatory powers ... 

 

But when I take reports like this into account, it looks to me more like this incident was fanatical cultural-ideological bullshit, indistinguishable from religion.

 

...

 

In an ironic twist of fate, Ukraine and neighboring Russia, are home to the fastest growing HIV/AIDS epidemics in the world, fueled by the Russian government's irresponsible policies.

 

"We've made a lot of progress around the world, but Russia is a basket case when it comes to HIV," leading AIDS activist Gregg Gonsalves told Business Insider. "AIDS rates are going down in many places in Africa and other places. In Russia they continue to skyrocket."

 

Much of the epidemic in Eastern Europe is fueled by shared dirty needles used to inject drugs. Since the 1980s, needle exchanges and opiate substitution therapies, like methadone or buprenorphine, "have saved the lives of millions of injecting drug users worldwide in the past 30 years," Michel Kazatchkine, UN Secretary General's Special Envoy for HIV/AIDS in Eastern Europe and Central Asia, recently wrote in BMJ.

 

But in 1997, both treatments were outlawed in Russia.

 

"This is old Soviet thinking about drug use and infectious disease that didn't go away with the fall of the Berlin Wall and Perestroika. Basically they are still operating in these Cold War approaches to public health. It's incredibly sad," said Gonsalves. "There are lots of people on the ground there who are trying to do good things, lots of NGOs and people working despite the harassment by the government, but the state response is just abysmal."

 

Unlike Russia, Ukraine has allowed opiate substitution therapy since 2006. But when Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine several months ago, opiate substitution therapy was outlawed in the region, and no longer accessible to those who need it. "Politics has won out over science — and doctors, scientists, and humanitarians are right to feel abhorrence that a new human tragedy has been imposed on Crimea," wrote Kazatchkine.

 

Without access to these prevention methods, rates of HIV/AIDS are expected to continue to rise. The sad irony is: These researchers lost their lives in the place that needs them the most.

 

 

 

The "official version" of the story also seems plausible to me given the well-known and now stereotypical incompetence of that region's tech and training, and the region's almost never-ending conflicts.

 

The Russians and Ukrainians are pointing fingers at each other.

 

The investigations aren't done though, looks like maybe Oct of this year for the first one

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...17#cite_note-30

 

 

...

Immediately after the crash, a post appeared on the VKontakte social media profile attributed to Russian Colonel Igor Girkin, leader of the Donbass separatists, claiming responsibility for shooting down an AN-26,^[13][14][15] but after it became clear that a civilian aircraft had been shot down, the separatists denied any involvement, and the post was taken down. Russia has said that Ukraine "bears full, total responsibility" for the crash because it happened in Ukrainian airspace.^[16] The Ukrainian government states the missile was launched by "Russian professionals and coordinated from Russia".^[17][18] In June 2015, Buk manufacturer, the Russian concern Almaz-Antey announced that MH17 had been downed by a 9М38М1 Buk-M1 missile.^[19]

 

Malaysia said intelligence reports on the downing of MH17 were "pretty conclusive", but more investigation was necessary to be certain that a surface-to-air missile brought down the plane, after which they would look at the criminal side.^[20][21][22] The German Federal Intelligence Service reportedly concluded that the plane was shot down by pro-Russian separatists using a captured Ukrainian Buk system.

 

...

 

Preliminary evidence from the ongoing Dutch investigation has concluded that the plane was most likely downed by a Russian unit that was probably manned by a Russian crew, though other possibilities have not yet been ruled out.^[28][29]

 

In July 2015 Malaysia proposed a United Nations resolution to set up an international tribunal to prosecute those suspected of being behind the downing of the plane. While the proposal gained a majority on the UN Security Council (11 countries voting for it, 3 abstaining), it was vetoed by Russia.

 

 

If I were to venture any guesses right now, I would guess these poor people are collateral (or intentional) damage of Eastern Europe ideological terrorism with same ol' governmental cloak & dagger to save face.  Not so much a mission by the 1% to hoard the world's best drugs.

 

But of course that could easily change if the results of the investigation point out something different.

Edited by Duchykins, 06 August 2015 - 07:33 PM.

[Mango]

 http://terroronthetu...ms-su-26-pilot/

 

The Malaysian government is pressing charges that the Ukranian government in collusion with NATO shot down the Malaysian MH-17 aircraft over Ukraine (August 6th). We here explore this.

 

Was it shot down by a couple of Su-25 jet fighter planes? On the day of the shootdown, July 17^th, Kiev government officials insisted that, “No military aircraft were available in the region,” clearly untrue as various sources have confirmed the Su-25 Ukrainian Fighter jets on radar, trailing MH17 at the same altitude, some 4km behind it.

 

Even OSCE officials (Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe) have (on July 31)  confirmed evidence for bullets shot through the cockpit of the plane.

 

http://www.anderwelt...ckpit-MH017.pdf

 

1.  The crashed Boeing photos showed clearly multiple bullet holes from machine gun bullets, which consistently showed a frontal angle and hardly could result from a ground-air missile.

 

2. This aircraft was not hit by a missile in the central portion. The destruction is limited to the cockpit area.

 

3. it becomes abundantly clear that an explosion took place inside the aircraft.

 

4. I was amazed at how few photos can be found from the wreckage with Google. All are in low resolution, except one: The fragment of the cockpit below the window on the pilots side. I found that both the high-resolution photo of the fragment of bullet riddled cockpit as well as the segment of grazed wing have in the meantime disappeared from Google Images. One can find virtually no more pictures of the wreckage, except the well-known smoking ruins.

- suggesting that whoever is responsible for this has the ability to remove images from Google.

 

An authoritative German report likewise concluded: ‘Surface-to-air-missile attack ruled out as calibre of cockpit bullet holes puts Ukraine pilots in the frame for MH17 murders’:

 

You can see the entry holes and some exit points. The edges of the bullet holes are bent inwards, these are much smaller and round in shape. A 30mm calibre. The exit holes are less well formed and the edges are torn outwards. Furthermore it is visible that the exit holes have torn the double aluminium skin and bent them outwards. That is to say, splinters from inside the cockpit blew through the outside of the cabin. The open rivets have also been bent outwards….There is only one conclusion one can make, and that is that this: the aircraft was not hit by a missile. The damage to the aircraft is exclusively in the cockpit area…. The cockpit of MH 017 was hit from TWO sides, as there are entry and exit holes on the same side….’

 

On 25 July, the pilot of the Ukrainian Su-25, as shown in a presentation by the Russian General Staff, admitted to have shot at the MH17 plane cannon. The plane was, however, flown during that particular mission by a Polish pilot with a US citizenship. ”Peter Hiller” [Heller?], age 41. The US contractor/mercenary was supposed to have left Ukraine on July 20 for Poland and then with a new passport (and a name?) for another country.

 

 

But that's not the point. 

 

These people have no nationality, no religion, no creed, except for the money and more importantly - power.

 

Nationality was "invented" for the purpose of the French Revolution as it replaced religion that was the main motivational force for going to war, most notably for recruitment purposes. So people didn't go to war for God anymore, but for their flag..

 

Nationality and religion are just used to control people through their emotions. That's all there is to it. A way to control the mob that often desires revenge, blood and justice by their own measure.

 

Btw, that bunch of wealthy people don't even have to bother with hiding something. There is only one rule:"If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes truth". After all, they wouldn't lie to us, now would they..

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mango, 06 August 2015 - 08:22 PM.

[Duchykins]

Not wasting my time with this guy:

 

http://terroronthetube.co.uk/bio/

 

 

I’ve been a founder-member of the London 9/11 Sceptics (or the 911 ‘truth’ movement). My web-essay ‘Nine keys to 9/11’ was praised by the prestigious Physics9/11 site, here is their review:   Nine Keys to 9-11

...

 

Once it became known that I was researching a book about 7/7, an intense  media-abuse campaign started up against me, in 2008 (it was published in 2009). I was chucked out of my college UCL, where I’d been an honorary member of staff (i.e. unpaid) for 11 years, with a statement of ethical damnation posted  up. This didn’t actually say what I had done that was so terrible, so everyone was free to imagine the worst. This then spilled over into the 911 ‘truth’ movement and I soon got banned from their site.

...

 

Guy was fruitloop enough to be dismissed from his job in academia.  I know why - creationists have been booted for the same reason.

 

AND he shunned by other conspiracy theorists, I think that's quite an achievement ... 

...

 

 

Do I wish I had ever shut up about questioning the holocaust?

Well, I sometimes wonder whether I should have used a pseudonym in the first place.

...

_____________

 

 

Your second source, I also summarily dismissed.    

 

http://www.thetruths...r.co.uk/?cat=30    What. the. fuck.

 

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=294     /Christianity.

 

http://www.thetruths...t&submit=Search   

 

Reminds me of http://whale.to/ .  I fucking love that site, it's a neverending bag of laughs.

 

___________________

 

 

Your third source.  Over to the left of the page you cited, these were listed under "Today's Top Stories"

 

 

http://investmentwat...ibution-system/  

 

(an article from Natural News, which is almost as funny to me as whale.to)

 

 

 

 

Barack Obama, Planned Parenthood And The Demonic Population Control Agenda Of The New World Order
 

Title speaks for itself, really.

 

 

 

Quit Bashing Obama, He Continues to Set Presidential Records

 

Excerpts:

 

The first President to decriminalize beastiality in the military.   (bald-faced lie, UCMJ was merely rewritten around getting rid of Don't Ask, Don't Tell since UCMJ previously lumped sodomy and bestiality into the same sentence.  No service members were under the impression bestiality became legal during this time and were expressly informed of the opposite - bestiality was still illegal and would be prosecuted)

 

The only President to have personal tax paid servants for his “wife”.  (she's not really his wife?)
 

____________________

 

 

So... this is the company you keep.  Good to know.

 

Have a nice day.

[Mango]

Ah this is pointless..No one said that any of above theories are actually truth. But there is always a flip side of the coin. Not all web sites are written in English so I did my best to look out for something that I remember people were discussing about.

 

People that know something about Buk, S-300, etc. were discussing about how that Malaysian aircraft was probably brought down. Naturaly, there is a distinct possibility that all of it is bs, but still worth to consider it.

 

You are not in danger of wearing a tin foil hat if you let all parties be heard, regardless of your opinion of them..No one is going to buy you a David Icke's book for Christmas, don't worry..

 

 

[Duchykins]

I see what you're saying.  

 

But I have to tell you that evaluating and rejecting the claims of some parties is not the same as not letting them be heard.  I very much want them to be heard, because it's easier to analyze and shred bad arguments and questionable ideologies that way - and by allowing all parties to be heard, you disallow any of them to engender that special fascination of the forbidden.

 

The reason I think this way is because I've observed the intelligent design movement in America for more than a decade, and the initial reaction from the scientific community was "we're not going to legitimize creationist arguments by arguing against them" and "it's not science so there is nothing to debate" and "creationists argue against weaknesses in evolution that don't exist."  It sort-of backfired because only one side of the story was being told and the scientific community's silence on the topic made people even more intrigued by it.

 

Of course, now things are changing since we can see how bad things have become, and there is talk in the scientific literature of radically altering the teaching of biology in America and bringing intelligent design's arguments into the classroom and "teach both sides," that way, fewer students will come out of science class ambivalent about evolution.  When exposed to the light and put to the test, it quickly becomes obvious that ID is garbage.

 

So that's my take on this.

[Mango]

Well, I didn't know you were familiar with the Su-25 theory so I decided to drop in a line or two.

 

Forbidden fruit is the sweetest, yes. Something that is considered tabu somehow always seems to be more appealing to the people than what is being openly discussed. However, if you are aware of that than you are also in danger to automatically dismiss anything that carries "tabu" tag in front of it. It's a double edged sword really.

 

I don't believe in an evolution the way Darwin described it. Neanderthals perhaps are the descendants of apes, but I believe that Cro Magnons are not. Instead they (us) seem to me more of a mixture between Neanderthals and someone else. Still, that's just a theory and who knows what the real truth is. Yes, we do share 98.8% of DNA with the chimps, but I somehow believe that Cro Magnons entered history out of nowhere, already at the developed stage and even lived with Neanderthals for a long time before Neanderthals were extinguished. Evolution assumes developing over hundreds of thousands, millions of years. How could it be that ape looking humans (Neanderthals) existed side by side with Cro Magnons (contemporary man, more or less)?

 

 

 

Look at this picture for example. A first timer would think that Neanderthal was already extinguished and that Cro Magnon developed from him. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case..There are theories that both have the same ancestor, which implies separate evolution of one while the other one stagnated. How is that even possible? Divine intervention? Not likely. 

 

Although, man of today would be considered a deity amongst Mayans or even Sumerians with all his helicopters, jets, tanks, medicine, etc. After all, Drake's equation offers little to no chance of us being the sole intelligent species in the universe, galaxy even. Unfortunately, people do tend to over estimate their own importance.

 

 

Edited by Mango, 07 August 2015 - 07:38 AM.

[Duchykins]

It's pretty funny that I just posted a list of most influential books on me right before I read your reply.

 

 

The list is relevant:  http://www.longecity...me/#entry739599

 

 

Anti-evolution (whether religious or nonreligious) is intellectual poison.  Period.

[Antonio2014]

Snif, snif, I like the smell of troll in the morning...

[Mango]

It's pretty funny that I just posted a list of most influential books on me right before I read your reply.


The list is relevant: http://www.longecity...me/#entry739599


Anti-evolution (whether religious or nonreligious) is intellectual poison. Period.

The more I know the more I am aware of the fact that I don't know anything.

Will contribute to the list.

Edited by Mango, 08 August 2015 - 01:42 PM.

[Mango]

Snif, snif, I like the smell of troll in the morning...

I thought you were just too lazy to take a bath..

[Florian Xavier]

guys we are 8 billions. There will always be some crazy people.