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What can be taken together on empty stomach?


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#1 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 10:24 PM


If I were to take the following at the same time on an empty stomach:

RALA Gel
Acetyl-L-Carnitine
Rhodiola
Ashwagandha
Bacopa
DHEA

Would I run into problems? Would they hinder the absorption of each other? If I had to space all of those out individually it would get really ridiculous. Looking for all opinions; educated guesses are welcome.
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#2 Shepard

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 10:32 PM

I take Alcar away from everything else.

I take R-ALA Gel, ashwaganda, and bacopa together at night.
I also take R-ALA Gel, ashwaganda, and rhodiola in the morning.

Seems to work for me, and that is about the best thing I can tell you. I certainly don't think there are any absorption issues (I came to this conclusion a long time ago after pouring over info on each of these).
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#3 karitas

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 12:09 AM

why you take bacopa at night? Sedative effect?
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#4 Shepard

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 02:11 AM

Keeps me from taking too many things in the morning (in case there is some type of interference). Also, the literature I've seen seems to imply that consistent use is the key, not timing.
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#5 trh001

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 08:31 PM

This is a real problem for me, as well. The only way I've been able to converge on an approach on a supplement-specific basis is by extensive literature searching combined with emails to the seller asking for literature references to support their dosing recommendations.

As a first approximation, I take all molecules that are absorbed intact across the small intestine with no literature suggesting they have increased bioavailability in conjunction with food, and may in fact be harmed by exposure to stomach acid, on an empty stomach in AM.

I take all fat soluble or fat-enhanced uptake substances, together with food, unless the literature indicates that food-binding (fiber, say) is an issue, in which case I may take them with some olive oil, or seeds, or nuts or other fatty food like soy milk.

At this stage I'm still working on documenting all this, so perhaps a future post will have more info. Read as, "I'm winging it per my rules of thumb above, for now".

As for "Will they hinder absorption of each other?" -- I think you're not likely to see this with the list you have above. The major problem might be, say, taking a large amount of a mineral that affects the dissolution a weak acid and in fact forms a salt in equilibrium with the acid....affecting charge, and so affect bioavailability via small intestine absorption. You could also affect binding to other food items in gut, in this way, and so reduce bioavailability.

I'd take all your more exotic designer nutraceuticals and xenobiotics separately from any garden variety multivitamin/mineral supplements for this reason. If you know they're lipophilic (fat loving) take them with fatty or EFA supplements, if you take these (DHA/EPA/GLA/ oil dispersed Q10, aliphatic alcohols like E, tocotrienols, policosinols, etc).
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#6 syr_

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 06:53 PM

Rhodiola is better taken in the morning, with or without food (they suggest with but it doest canuse any problem to me).
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#7 trh001

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 04:45 AM

I don't have access to the full paper. Of note: "Its [carnosine] uptake was significantly inhibited by other dipeptides, whereas it was not inhibited by other amino acids. These characteristics of the carnosine uptake strongly suggest its transport into the cells via peptide transporter 1 (PepT1). "

Whether this competition is significant such that significant carnosine might not be absorbed in some situations, one can only speculate. However, this does tie in nicely with the "meat meal" reference cited above: the pharmacokinetic profile would be heavily influenced by the peptides attendant to the breakdown of the meat meal. So, taking it on an empty stomach will likely result in a shaper spike, and more rapid clearance, so even less concern it would seem, that levels might remain persistently high between, say, 250mg dosings at 6 hour intervals.

I suppose this still begs the question of whether one wants one type of pharmacokinetic profile, or the other, and hence *should* one take carnosine with a protein rich meal?

---------------

Biofactors. 2004;21(1-4):395-8. Related Articles, Links


Characterization of carnosine uptake and its physiological function in human intestinal epithelial Caco-2 cells.

Son DO, Satsu H, Kiso Y, Shimizu M.

Department of Applied Biological Chemistry, Graduate School of Agricultural and Life Sciences, The University of Tokyo, 1-1-1 Yayoi, Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo 113-8657, Japan.

Carnosine (beta-Ala-L-His) is known to have the physiological functions of an antioxidant. Although dietary carnosine is thought to be absorbed across intestinal epithelial cells, the mechanism for this absorption is not yet well understood and its function in the intestinal tract is also obscure. The intestinal transport of carnosine was characterized in the present study by using human intestinal Caco-2 cells, and its physiological function in these cells was further examined. The carnosine uptake was proton-dependent, being activated by lowering the apical pH value. Its uptake was significantly inhibited by other dipeptides, whereas it was not inhibited by other amino acids. These characteristics of the carnosine uptake strongly suggest its transport into the cells via peptide transporter 1 (PepT1). Since carnosine has antioxidative activity, we studied its effect on the H2O2-induced secretion of inflammatory cytokines in Caco-2 cells. The H2O2 induced increase in IL-8 secretion was inhibited by a pretreatment with carnosine for 3 h, this inhibition being presented in a dose-dependent manner. These results suggest that carnosine had a protective effect against oxidative stress in intestinal epithelial cells.

PMID: 15630234 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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