81 replies to this topic

[Daniel Cooper]

Turnbuckle's only claim Sarah is that 99.5% C60 can not be turned into 99.95% C60 by vacuum baking (which is a statement of technical fact).  That's it.  You demanded that he retract that statement.  He simply said that if you'll make a statement that the test data you have on your website showing 99.95% C60 started off as 99.5% which was further refined by you he'll be happy to make a retraction.  You are after all making demands of him.  His request only seems fair.  If you have some proprietary process that uses carcinogenic chemicals to further refine C60 he's more than willing to retract his statement and give you his heartfelt congratulations at your achievement. 

 

Why exactly are you so reluctant to make that statement and put this whole sordid business behind us?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

@Turnbucke You're casting FUD again. Please describe the production process of 99.5% C60 and tell me that the average buyer of C60-EVOO wouldn't find it a rather unsettling process, involving highly carcinogenic chemicals. How do you think that purity is attained in the first place? We are under no obligation to disclose to anyone how our processes work in detail. On the other hand, you will be obliged by a court of justice to perfectly prove beyond a doubt that all your allegations are 100% correct. Not 99% - only 100% will do. There are many ways a multi-million dollar company with our knwoledge and ambition can purify C60 from 99.5 to 99.95%. For ex. you buy a 32000 dollar mixer that can handle 25 gallons of liquid and instead of filling it with olive oil, you fill it with a certain solvent and you add a kilo of C60 and let it run for a very long time. Then you do something something with the resulting liquid in another, even more costly machine and a bunch of other apparatuses we built ourselves that we chose not to display on your website. I'm not saying we do this at all - we do not want to disclose what we do to our competitors who are now all over us -. I'm just saying that we have a LOT of money (from this product hundreds of thousands of dollars just RECENTLY) and we're dedicated to optimal production processes and continuous improvement of our product. I remind you again that we have unlimited funds to sue you and even keep appealing, if you do not retract your libelous claims before tomorrow 18:00 our time. I will now do something else and tomorrow 18:00 I will verify that it's all gone. You do NOT need to apologize. Only to remove the damaging claims for which you do not have 100% proof. Not that it makes any difference as to the allegations disappearing, because my reiterations of your claim will keep standing, here. It's just a matter of principle for me.

 

Quoting for the record.

[ambivalent]

I could care less that you consider my defense to be evidence of me being mentally ill​ - are you suggesting you care a little more than you should of evidence asserting you to be mentally ill. Then get help. 

 

See how silly it is? Don't waste our or the forum's on typos, deal with the issues at hand. Anyhow, I'm out of this thread too. 

 

You have unlimited sums of money then spend it on greater transparency, communication, further research and third party verification of your products and processes. That is a service and a useful one to your past, present and future customers and those of rival vendors who will benefit from the new industry standard you will set. You could have done this years ago and now be lauded.    

[Daniel Cooper]

Franciscus?

 

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

I've had a most entertaining evening.  I put "Sarah Vaughtner" into Google, scrolled down past the entries for "her" website, and started reading.

 

 

 

[pamojja]

I've had a most entertaining evening.  I put "Sarah Vaughtner" into Google, scrolled down past the entries for "her" website, and started reading.

 

Oh well. All my suspicions ignited by his dishonesty and threatening throughout this thread confirmed by Google. Good luck with suing all of them..
 

[SarahVaughter]

Turnbuckle has 5 more hours to retract his libel in his post #249 in this thread, claiming: "As for SV's oil, it is mislabeled with a purity higher than the actual purity."  If the libel still stands after that, we'll preserve timestamped evidence and will seek action against both Longecity and Turnbuckle. I ask Longecity to take down the libel to avoid legal action against them for being a willing accessory to libel.

[Daniel Cooper]

Franciscus de Groot.  Is that your real name?

 

That Google search does reveal a definite pattern of threats to litigate.  But, I note that there are a few websites dedicated informing the world about owndoc.com that have not buckled to these threats and remain up.  How is it that your crack legal team has not had these shut down?

 

Shall we discuss the content of these sites?

 

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

Why don't we talk about this site  - https://owndocscam.wordpress.com/ for a start?

 

Amazing that your legal team hasn't taken that one down.

 

 

[SarahVaughter]

As long as you do not commit a criminal act against my company, you're invited and encouraged to discuss absolutely everything you want to. If you however do commit a criminal act against my company, we will add you to the supoena, requiring Longecity to disclose your IP address. You're totally free to post here all kinds of off-topic allegations against my company, made by people we exposed for scams. There is for example a blog called "owndocscam", made by Robert Lyle Kindelan, who threatened to destroy my company if I refused to take down my exposure of a Russian quack who claims she can cure autism with her very expensive dietary supplements and books. We never bow to threats, also not when they're executed. We simply fight back. We have nothing to hide. Then there is an Australian woman who defrauded us for hundreds of dollars, sending us back an empty box after filing a fraudulent PayPal dispute. When we publicly blacklisted her as per our T&C, she embarked on a years-long campaign of defamation. We reached a settlement with her via our Australian libel attorney. Robert Kindelan is a very old man (87 atm I think) and will likely die soon. We decided that instead of litigation, which is hard, in the US, to write a lengthy rebuttal on our own site, as well as write a separate article about him. It is very clear from his rantings that he has an agenda, and he brings no substance to all kinds of allegations so it's no threat to our business. My company made very many enemies by publicly blacklisting everyone who defrauded us or threatened us. We put up their photo, name and address, email address, place of employment everything. And we never take that down. So it becomes their mission to take us down, no matter what. People who commit fraud also have no problem posting anonymous libel in retaliation. Of course, as soon as they post truly credible, truly damaging things we always take action. We took action half a dozen times before via a libel attorney and we always settled to our full satisfaction. Sometimes we reject a settlement offer. UK company Pangaea was found by our UK attroney to have comitted various unlawful actions. Their CEO offered us USD 65000 to settle the matter, if we'd remove our article about what they'd done to us. We refused. We preferred to keep that article up. 

LOL I see that you added "owndocscam" just as I was already typing about it, hehe.

 

There are so many people who tried to harm my company due to the fact that we came down on them like a ton of bricks for stealing hundreds, or even tens of thousands of dollars from us. We wrote a detailed article on a Turkish entrepreneur for example, who defrauded us for 50 grand. Search for "Hasan Ercan" and you will find the story. We also publicly blacklisted Russian and Chinese companies who defrauded us. e.g. one Russian fullerene company sold us soot. We have all evidence. SES even tested it for us. We even have an "apology" (but no refund!).  We turned literally one hundred sociopaths into mortal enemies. No wonder there is a lot of crap written about us. I debunk that here: http://owndoc.com/sc...sarah-vaughter/

 

Part of our business model is making powerful enemies. Look at this article, for example:

 

http://owndoc.com/ca...-solution-scam/

 

Jim Humble's acolytes embarked on a veritable Jihad against us and have since tried to shut us down in all kinds of ways.

 

Good luck trying to get some dirt to stick, and derailing the issue at hand.

Edited by SarahVaughter, 04 November 2017 - 01:11 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Is this the real Sarah Vaughter?

 

 

Hello, this is Frank

 

 

Says his name is Frank.  The accent is right.

 

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

You see Sarah/Frank/whatever the hell your name is .... you overplayed your hand.  You came in here bullying people thinking you were going to shut down anything you didn't want discussed.  But, your over the top behavior got people wondering .... just who is this Sarah Vaughter?

 

You played it at about a 9.  If you'd had dialed it back to 6 no one would have ever investigated.

 

Given what I see from researching you, I wouldn't be overly concerned about lawsuits.  You may have successfully bullied a few people into caving, but you managed to frighten them.  But, we know a lot more than they did.

 

Now run along now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SarahVaughter]

You are confused. All I have done is requesting a retraction of libel and explained what constitutes libel, and warned about the possible consequences. Defending against very serious defamation is not "overplaying my hand" or "bullying people". On the contrary, I feel bullied when a NY startup, funded to the hilt, announcing to plan to compete with us, alleges that we sell potential lethal poison but refuses to back this up. I feel bullied when an anonymous person here claims that we sell impure product, but refuses to back it up or take the claim down. I feel bullied when I get called "crazy" and be told to "shut up" and "you should get banned" and when all kinds of mud is slung and in the end all that's left is simply slinging curses at me. I remind you again that we are not some virtual entity. We're a small business and families rely on us for their livelihood. We have a family with a baby who build our Derminator machines. Well, the baby doesn't really contribute much :-)  We have another family with two small children who dispatch our products from Prague. (No, their small children are not laboring for us, sigh). We have a lady who could not survive of her pension and she dispatches our C60-EVOO. We employ an autistic person who was in jail on a fake charge by his "gf", some random homeless woman he took in who stole all his money, so much that under our laws it's a mandatory prison sentence and when he reported it, she falsely accused him of planning to murder their neighbor and they believed her. She escaped all charges while he spent a very long time waiting for a trial and after he was found innocent he was homeless and penniless.  You can discuss absolutely anything you want, but as soon as you commit a crime against my company under the law of your own country, I am entitled to take you to justice for it, and it's totally up to my whim whether I'll do that or not. That's how the real world works, kiddo. Better get used to it before it chews you up and spits you out. 

 

PS

 

You know what's really interesting? If our company sues a US citizen or company for libel here in the Czech Republic, any court decision of damages and penalties is 100% enforceable in all US states under itl. treaties. Even more interesting: The only place where you can appeal is in the Czech Republic. And under US law, all that can and must be done is for a Bailiff or relevant authorities in your town to execute the judgment, such as taking posession of your bank account etc. Look it up. It's hardly ever done but that's mainly because noone knows about this. Look up what US authorities MUST do by itl. treaties, when presented with a Czech court order to confiscate say 100 grand from a US citizen or corporate entity to pay for our damages. No appeals possible in the US. If you do not appeal in Czechia or if you lose your appeals, the US must and surely will execute the judgment. The US constantly bullies smal countries with sanctions and all kinds of rules they must abide by or face their wrath, but guess what: To the extent of court judgements, things work both ways. Which happens all the time. My UK company lost a US-registered .com due to a Norwegian court order. Norwegian court orders are valid in the US. As are all nearly all other foreign court orders, except those from a long list of "Axis of Evil/Communist/Terrorist" etc. countries. Which makes sense. And hence it is possible to, when appliccable, to have a Czech court order to confiscate a domain name or even get a US citizen extradited to the Czech Republic where they will face Czech penalties for violating Czech Law. Look it up. And the US has an extradition treaty with individual EU countries - with all of them. Entailing that when the offense is also an offense in the US, they MUST and without delay or US-based appeal extradite. In other words, most foreign court orders are enforceable in the US. Didn't know that? Look it up. In case of Libel, perhaps best for us would be to sue in the UK, our country of incorporation.

Edited by SarahVaughter, 04 November 2017 - 03:24 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Get bent.

 

 

[mikela]

Best thing to do is simply not buy her (his?) product and spread the word.

[SarahVaughter]

There is not the slightest reason to do so but as long as you do not commit a crime against us, feel free to go on a petty little crusade if that makes you feel more powerful. Frivolous complaints against our company have been made by the likes of you to police, BBB, Attorney General, payment processors, hosting provider, domain registrars, all kinds of review sites such as TrustPilot and Ripoff Report and god knows who else. Every time we expose another scammer, the attacks roll in. We recently identified a dozen C60-oil scammers who publish fake testimonials and claim their product cures cancer, arthritis etc. Interesting how a couple of anonymous folks here are crusading against our ethical company, while noone seems to care about the dozen recent "make money online" bandwagon-riders with their highly questionable products. One vendor sells "C60" oil for $60 a bottle and the color is of ordinary oil. No purple hue. I think it's time for us to start exposing the real C60-oil scammers, one by one, in-depth, a separate article per scammer. I put it on my todo list. All hide behind anonymous WHOIS services and publish no contact details on their site. Funny how the only company singled out on Longecity is one with incredible transparancy and a good product for a good price. Even our tax filings and balance sheets are public. We posted a detailed breakdown of our production cost, we posted where we buy our C60 and EVOO, we posted a chromatogram with purity results, pics of our production lab, we have fair prices, nice dark bottles, everything as good and honest as we can make it but WE have to be destroyed.  We're not so easy to destroy though, how ever much you may like to damage us for your petty ego-reasons or more nefarious reasons (e.g. being a competitor, selling adulterated C60-EVOO under false pretenses). I stopped caring about those kind of childish "If I can't win a discussion I'll try to hurt you in your pocket book" threats a very long time ago. We simply hunt you down and settle with you/sue you for libel if you violate the Law and if you stay within the Law you can throw tantrums anywhere and anyhow you like. Our customers are not stupid. You know what's an interesting coincidence? About a dozen scammers started to heavily hype their fraudulent C60-oil products. They rapidly ran out of stock but we were the only ones that could meet demand. So they are understandibly furious to have lost say $200,000 in revenue. And hey presto, suddenly all kinds of allegations pop up here, of our product being "impure", of our product "perhaps can kill you in a day" etc. etc. When that doesn't work, the "discussion" devolves into juvenile namecalling and calls for our destruction by all crowdsourced means.  I understand it now :-)   Good luck :-)

Edited by SarahVaughter, 04 November 2017 - 04:27 PM.

[mikela]

Oh, I forgot to mention best to just ignore the ranting behavior or better yet point potential customers to this thread so they can see first hand for themselves.

[SarahVaughter]

We can do without customers who take sides with anonymous people who call others mentally ill, ask for their banishment, curse them out, spread false allegations, repeatedly insult them, attempt to bully them into submission by threatening further harm to their business, try to dig up dirt about them for no other reason but losing the argument. All for defending against very serious libel. The Good Lord in Heaven above save us from such customers. So please spread this thread far and wide - it will help spare us some serious headaches. In fact we can "PayPal" you $100 if you provide evidence of spamming this thread to say half a dozen places. Let me know the URL's and your PP addy, if you have one.

Edited by SarahVaughter, 04 November 2017 - 05:40 PM.

[Colorow]

My one comment about crazy behavior seems to have hit a nerve Frank/Sarah.  I was unprofessional myself to have done that, my apologies.  I should have used the proper acronym - DARVO

 

Deny/Divert Attack Reverse Victim and Offender 

[hav]

I think Turnbuckle and Sarah both make some valid points.  Mainly because I personally believe that it is deceptive for a manufacturer of raw c60 to claim a purity percentage based only on the ratio of c60 to c70 in their product.  When I think of a purity percentage, I expect it to be based on the ratio of c60 to anything else in there, which would include c70, solvent residues, c12, heavy metals, or anything else.  And that a vacuum drying step would likely improve the purity of a raw c60 product which skipped that step.  I recall someone in the forum here checking that with SES a number of years ago and being told that was the primary difference between their 99.5% product and their 99.95% product was that the later was vacuum dried to remove more solvent residue.  I've been vacuum drying the SES 99.5% I use since then based on that.  What I haven't seen discussed here is the more relevant question of whether the manufacturer Sarah uses for raw c60 vacuum dries their lower purity product or what its aggregate purity might really be... obviously if it's already vacuum dried, doing that some more is unlikely to change much.

 

Howard

Edited by hav, 04 November 2017 - 07:19 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Mainly because I personally believe that it is deceptive for a manufacturer of raw c60 to claim a purity percentage based only on the ratio of c60 to c70 in their product.  When I think of a purity percentage, I expect it to be based on the ratio of c60 to anything else in there, which would include c70, solvent residues, c12, heavy metals, or anything else.  

 

Remember this is an industrial product, not a supplement, and the standard appears to be quoting the desired fullerene as a percentage of all the fullerenes present. SES does it the same way. Solaris sells 2 grades of purity--99.5% and 99.9%, each in a regular and low volatile state, the latter with the volatiles baked off. But there's no difference in the stated purity for the baked or unbaked, in line with what the president of the company told me. Baking does not change the purity, something SV now agrees with in spite of the statement on the SV website.--"We vacuum-dry Solaris' c60 to 99.95%."

 

And on that same page she says this again in answer to a question about how she obtains her purity--

 

I forgot to say that "we claim it goes from 99.5% to 99.95%" is not due to magic - it's due to the same process as the original manufacturers use to attain that purity: Vacuum drying so that the solvent evaporates, used in the production. With the quantities of C60 we're purchasing (1 kg at a time), the price of a good vacuum oven is earned back at the first purchase of 99.5% instead of 99.95%.

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 04 November 2017 - 09:59 PM.

[platypus]

The new bottles SV is using are excellent and I've been happy with her product (I have not compared it to other similar products). I would like to know what is the C70-content of her purified C60, it should be easy to provide an assay. If the assay on her webpage is of her purified C60 and the smaller blip is C70, I'm not concerned at all. But as a customer I would like a clarification.