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full body = investment = wealth upon revival...???!

future wealth

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#1 Rib Jig

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:09 PM


Today, if a frozen human body from distant past is discovered

on someone's private property, would that owner of land be

owner of body & have right to sell it to science?

If yes, one would think the older the body, the higher

the price?  A 20000BC body worth more than 1000AD?

 

Now we see vast majority of cryonics is just heads,

therefore full body is rarer.  Can we imagine in future

with revival, there will be choices like

a. imitate original body as much as possible

b. use actual original body as well as possible

c. select from a menu of new bodies

d. select from a menu of non-body options

 

Except for (b), the original body, assumed still

"owned" by the revivee, becomes available

to future science.  For a payment to revivee,

one assumes. (money or privileges or ???)

 

Therefore, in summary, investing now before

death in full body can be thought of as a form

of taking one's current wealth of about

$200K - $80K = $120K into future...???

 

Discuss.  Debate.  Refute.  Advise.  Dismiss.


Edited by Rib Jig, 05 January 2018 - 10:11 PM.


#2 cocoonman

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:19 PM

Well, if you dug out a fossil in your backyard, it would be yours to keep or sell at auction. Some countries, however regulate such things very strictly. Of course, fossils don't have any potential for revival by future technology.

 

In the far future when there is possibility of revival from biostasis, preserved human bodies might be actively sought by some agencies which may regard it akin to saving lives. Potential for life could be valued as much as life itself.

 

We may be reconstructed as traditionally imagined by Drexler and others. Tiny assemblers would burrow through the brain, fixing it molecule by molecule, like construction workers performing repairs on some ancient building. The rest of the body could be regrown from stem cells, put together by nanotech., or even repaired "in situ" as well. It depends on which approach would be the most efficient. I don't worry about preserving anything other than brain, or even having the choice to look the same. I plan to be transformed into Superman. The decision may be left to the AI. It would analyze the brain to determine the personality and preferences, and design an appropriate body for us. Today we suffer the injustice of nature, being born in the masks of skin and bone which don't reflect our true selves. That would change.

 

As to the potential financial value of the original bodies, I don't know. What kind of economy can we expect in the post-scarcity world, with full automation and nanotechnology?


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#3 Rib Jig

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:46 PM

> What kind of economy can we expect in the post-scarcity world...?

 

In any world (post-scarcity not guaranteed)

 

a. pure communism = all have same

b. non-communism = most-all have some things, some have more or better things

 

in the latter, revivees with an original body to sell-license-lend may realize a $120K-in-today's-wealth kitty...?



#4 YOLF

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:38 PM

 

> What kind of economy can we expect in the post-scarcity world...?

 

In any world (post-scarcity not guaranteed)

 

a. pure communism = all have same

b. non-communism = most-all have some things, some have more or better things

 

in the latter, revivees with an original body to sell-license-lend may realize a $120K-in-today's-wealth kitty...?

 

You're saying someone would want to buy our original bodies? Maybe if we're in stasis long enough. I don't think a 100 year old body will be worth much, though I could be wrong. Sure, lots of bodies buried, but only a handful if that, of my geneset and having lived the circumstances of my environment.

 

So can I get my head frozen with Alcor and have my body shipped off to the Cryonics Institute to lower the cost of the investment? 



#5 Rib Jig

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:27 PM

a. don't think a 100 year old body will be worth much, though I could be wrong.
b. So can I get my head frozen with Alcor and have my body shipped off to the Cryonics Institute to lower the cost of the investment? 

 

 

a. imagine discovery of human cryonically preserved in 1918,

body offered to highest bidder for any legal usage;

head same;

or both together if higher than individually;

IMO, highest bidders combined would be $50K+

Ripley's Believe It or Not might bid $55K??????????????

scientific advances 2018-2118 50X 1918-2018?,

therefore 50X reasons to buy or license vs. today;

e.g., VR developers of future might cherish studying

2018 body to make their software conform more closely...)

 

b. inquire or briefly enquire, & report back if willing


Edited by Rib Jig, 06 January 2018 - 06:31 PM.


#6 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:07 PM

Those answers sound too centric. But there are perhaps other reasons...



#7 Rib Jig

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:54 PM

Those answers sound too centric.

 

In what way specifically?



#8 YOLF

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:22 PM

I think our cryo companies will monetize our remains as part of our reanimation funding actually.



#9 Rib Jig

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:38 PM

a. I don't think a 100 year old body will be worth much

b. our cryo companies will monetize our remains as part of our reanimation funding

 

contradictory opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???

 

(IMO, both wrong)



#10 seivtcho

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:15 PM

 

a. imagine discovery of human cryonically preserved in 1918,

body offered to highest bidder for any legal usage;

head same;

or both together if higher than individually;

IMO, highest bidders combined would be $50K+

Ripley's Believe It or Not might bid $55K??????????????

scientific advances 2018-2118 50X 1918-2018?,

therefore 50X reasons to buy or license vs. today;

e.g., VR developers of future might cherish studying

2018 body to make their software conform more closely...)

 

....

 

 

It is hard for me to imagine a discovery of someone cryonically preserved in 1918 for a bunch of reasons, for example, because someone has to put liquid nitrogen in the tank. If liquid nitrogen supply has stopped in 1918, then the corpse would have rotten.

 

Something simmilar has happened already. A man has been found in the Alps frozen for several millenia. Perhaps you have heared of him. His discoverers have received nothing as far as I know. The university simply has taken the corpse and thats that.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=1JySYyTA4Eo

 

https://en.wikipedia...Ötzi_the_Iceman



#11 Rib Jig

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 05:35 PM

 

These links  = "great interest-value" supporting evidence!!!!!!

Same will be true 2200 or whenever, the difference being

body owner will have been revived.

 

Summarizing: if one is pursuing cryonics path & has

resources, a way to carry one's wealth forward might

be to preserve whole body as an "investment"...

if it turns out to be worth less than investment, so what...



#12 YOLF

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 10:08 PM

 

a. I don't think a 100 year old body will be worth much

b. our cryo companies will monetize our remains as part of our reanimation funding

 

contradictory opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???

 

(IMO, both wrong)

 

A. Monetarily it might be worth a little, for your personal fame, it might be worth more if you become famous for having donated your body to science. Perhaps you can talk about your body on a talk show if you have a medical/scientific background... otherwise there won't be much interest.

B. It's redundant, you or your provider will have already benefited from the value.



#13 YOLF

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 10:12 PM

Anyways, if there is value to our old bodies, how will that affect our taxes in the future? If we are frozen for 100 years before the investment matures, will we be able to spread the earnings out over that hundred years to pay taxes in a lower bracket if that's how they are doing taxes in the future?



#14 seivtcho

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:42 AM

Leglly you will be dead while cryopreserved. Dead people don't pay taxes. So, you will should not be paying any taxes. Eventual taxes will be payed by the owner of the property, which stores your body.

 

The thing that stroke me is that the cryonics companies will monetize cryopreserved's remains as part of his own reanimation funding. This is totally against the interest of the cryopreserved. How can I get more information about that? What exactly will they do? Sell the organs of the cryopreserved before the cryopreservation?



#15 Rib Jig

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:58 PM

" The reason is that the obviously the transplantation organizations have decided to blackmail the people, who want to be cryopreserved for taking their organs."

 

Received message with this statement.

Can anyone interpret???

Currently, are those who choose just head having their organs harvested?

What exactly does "blackmail" (demanding money to keep a secret)

consist of?  Is it real or just a suspicion?



#16 YOLF

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 05:59 PM

Leglly you will be dead while cryopreserved. Dead people don't pay taxes. So, you will should not be paying any taxes. Eventual taxes will be payed by the owner of the property, which stores your body.

 

The thing that stroke me is that the cryonics companies will monetize cryopreserved's remains as part of his own reanimation funding. This is totally against the interest of the cryopreserved. How can I get more information about that? What exactly will they do? Sell the organs of the cryopreserved before the cryopreservation?

I guess it all depends on how things work out, but who wants to fix an old body when they can have a new one made for them? It's simply not worth the expense compared to the new body, especially where quality is a factor. Your old brain on the other hand represents the smallest part of you which is absolutely necessary to maintain your identity when you wake up. Sure, there is data stored in the peripheral nervous system, but it's probably not worth trying to salvage our modern propensity for eating crap that's unhealthy. Having the additional protection of not having an original vagus nerve for instance would be an improvement for most people in developed countries.



#17 YOLF

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 06:07 PM

" The reason is that the obviously the transplantation organizations have decided to blackmail the people, who want to be cryopreserved for taking their organs."

 

Received message with this statement.

Can anyone interpret???

Currently, are those who choose just head having their organs harvested?

What exactly does "blackmail" (demanding money to keep a secret)

consist of?  Is it real or just a suspicion?

In some countries organ donation is mandatory, so there are barriers to cryonics. There is presently no way to harvest organs from a neuro patient. The process is too destructive, though cryonicists could collectively save 15000 lives iirc... I ran the numbers around here somewhere... Though some want to keep their bodies for other purposes. I imagine some of the celebrity members might get big bucks for their bodies from collectors... maybe...

 

I'd also be in favor of donating my organs to other cryonicists if/when I have my head frozen and would like the option of doing this. 



#18 seivtcho

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 11:09 AM

According to me, the whole body is the better option (rather than head or brain only), because up to that moment head transplantation hasn't been done. So storing only the head only adds one uncertainity to the cryonics procedure. Some day in the future, when the head transplantation becomes possible, that will not be an uncertainity anymore, but for now, it is. 

 

I can't see any benefit for the cryopreserved to give his organs, except selling the organs for money, in order to pay for the head only cryoprocedure. This may work if your plans are to be head only as general, or you are not willing to pay anything for the cryoprocedure. In that case, you will not mind dismembering your body after the death, and getting a cryopreserved head from the nothing, without paying even a dime :)

 

 



#19 Rib Jig

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 01:38 PM

Brief general comment:

 

comments about costs of revival, taxes, etc., are, IMO, tangents

that assume today's issues exist in a future of reviving.

Revivals may be possible & expensive, in say, 2200.

Solution: revivals will be delayed until, say, 2300 when

expense is little or no issue.

Why bring body along...?

a. because some can

b. because it can't hurt (wild evacuation scenarios aside, head might be cut in emergency)

c. because it may have benefits (e.g. bartering for privileges)






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