7 replies to this topic

[GreenmachineX]

I’ve been taking an assortment of supplements for different reasons, such as theanine, agmatine, taurine, ashwagandha, l-Citrulline, valerian, lemon balm, are the ones that matter in this case. All that probably for a year or 2, while dropping 1 here or there but the taurine and theanine has been most consistent. Actually, the agmatine was pretty consistent as well except for dropping everything for 5 days before a lymph node biopsy last year.

A couple weeks ago, my doctor said I should increase my b vitamin intake and I started using Methyl Guard with TMG and around the same time started magnesium glycinate, and stopped agmatine roughly around the same time.

So, eventually I ended up in the ER with the following symptoms:
Extreme nausea and heart burn
Chest pain and left arm pain/tension
Freezing to the point of shaking visibly to others
Lightheaded/dizzy
Panic-type anxiety
Extreme Stimulation

Until today, I thought it was overmethylation.
Is it possible this was rebound NMDA receptor activation?

It’s been a week since all that, and the anxiety is still present, but over the weekend I started having leg cramps and pins and needles in my hands and feet and a couple episodes I thought I couldn’t breathe. I stopped all supplements last Monday, and have only been using magnesium asporotate at 400mg daily...

Last Thursday 200mg valerian at lunch and 400mg lemon balm at dinner

1g of taurine on Saturday which knocked me the hell down like a freight train

500mg taurine yesterday which also hit me pretty hard.

Am I actually withdrawing from natural stuff or is this all something else?

Due to my blood pressure getting out of control last Thursday (probably all anxiety induced), my doctor said to start bisoprolol again (been off it a few months) st 5mg daily. I took 5 the first day, then 2.5, 2.5, 1.25, and again 1.25mg today. The pins and needles and leg cramps started a couple days after starting the bisoprolol so I was afraid I was developing hyperkalemia because I’m also on bisoprolol. I guess that wouldn’t make sense though at the dosages I’m using of each and I’ve used the combo before in the past with higher dosages of the bisoprolol.

Why would 1g of taurine hit me so hard? It felt like a dissociative. There was 1 time during the overmethylation or whatever it was nightmare I took 500mg agmatine and it stopped it hard. A few times I also took a 1/4 tsp sea salt which seemed to stop it too, but that could’ve been coincidental. A lot has happened obviously.

Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Edited by GreenmachineX, 16 January 2018 - 05:45 PM.

[greenwich]

Taurine + magnesium could easily produce a knockdown effect. Magnesium suppresses adrenaline, and taurine binds to the serotonin receptors.

 

But taurine also competes with 5-HT to use the LNAA transporter. A large dose of it could possibly prevent serotonin from being produced at all.

 

At that point you have suppressed both noradrenaline/adrenaline and serotonin, so you have diminished energy and focus, slightly more pleasure due to the unmasked dopamine, and calming from the taurine. This could manifest as lethargy. Taurine isn't serotonin, and it doesn't do all the same jobs serotonin does. It's a hack.

 

For anxiety and lowering blood pressure I take 1.5 grams magnesium citrate / day, which is 1/200th of the LD50. Fairly safe in my opinion. Also I take up to 300 mg 5-HTP but never with taurine. The latter is great stuff but I think a maintenance dose at 100-200 mg/day, spread out over the day, is better for the brain. I mainly take it to oxidize fatty acids in order to liberate more fat. And then of course I stack carnitine to transport it to mitochondria. 

 

Given the wide assortment of supplements you are taking, it's going to be difficult to point to just one. I suggest going off of everything for two weeks to a month, and exercise and eat normally. Then slowly re-introduce them one by one.

[GreenmachineX]

Thanks for the feedback. The weird thing is I was taking 1g taurine just 2 weeks ago for years with no “effect” (just mild anxiolytics effect). 1 week without it and it felt like a drug. That’s what made me think the glycine in the TMG and magnesium glycinate activated the NMDA receptors too much and I’m dealing with that. But I don’t know.

I’ve been off everything except the couple things I’ve mentioned. Even off the LEF multivitamin because I believe the apigenin in it was hurting aromatase activity with my testosterone replacement therapy.

What sucks is the bisoprolol is taking my BP too low when I’m calm (130/60) and feel horrible, but the anxiety surges can take my BP up, way up.

[airplanepeanuts]

500 mg Taurine should be no problem in most cases- a single can of Red bull contains a gram!

[GreenmachineX]

I know! That’s the weird thing. Only 1 week ago I was taking 1 gram 3 times a day, sometimes 2 grams at a time. There was once a point in my life that I would take 5-10 grams at a time with only marginal relaxation.
What have I done to my brain? As you can see, I wasn’t really taking anything that crazy, except maybe the agmatine. Not sure. I’m also not sure if I even want to continue this complete abstinence or test each supplement out on its own to see which takes the most symptoms away.

Either way, I’ll be switching to magnesium taurate tomorrow because I imagine whatever taurine is in it will be much less than 500mg but hopefully enough for some Gaba and mild NMDA antagonism benefit.

[GreenmachineX]

I’m throwing out another theory here.

Too much magnesium. I’ve only been taking magnesium this past week and it just happened again. Started to get breathing difficulties, freezing hands and legs to the point of shivering, heart racing, and spaced out. I took 1/4 tsp sea salt and it’s calming down slowly. No more magnesium huh? I hope this theory is correct, because I’m really tired of this. What clued me into this was somehow ended up reading about hypocalcemia which I have several symptoms.

But, I could be dead wrong as well.

[GreenmachineX]

I figured all this out. Definitely overmethylation in the beginning, and when I stopped everything, elevated histamine took over. The magnesium theory was all wrong. And throughout the histamine takeover, I was adapting to keto which was causing other strange symptoms at the same time. It’s been a fun ride, but I’m finally on the upswing.

Taking LEF 2 Per Day for a good balance of b6 to m-folate and m-b12.
100mg theanine 4-6 times a day for antihistamine effects
1g taurine 3 times a day for hydration/keto help and anxiety
Chamomile twice a day for antihistamine effects
150mg magnesium citrate 3 times a day
2g vitamin C 3 times a day
5000iu vitamin D once a day
K2 90mcg once a day
500mg sea salt 3 times a day for keto support

Should I increase the magnesium? Also contemplating adding holy basil for more antihistamine effects.

How much chamomile is safe to use a day? Right now I’m using 2 caps Nature’s Way extract and 1 cup, but if more is safe, I probably need it.

[Lieutenant]

How are you doing now GreenmachineX?

 

I'm inclined to believe that what you are experiencing is primarily due to excessive glutamatergic activity. Of course both overmethylation and elevated histamine will both elevate glutamate levels.

 

The Theanine, Taurine, Chamomile and Magneisum will all will help antagonise glutamate receptors or increase GABA levels. There are certainly other supplemental options that may be useful in supporting your recovery.

 

I am suffering something similar to you, although seemingly more intense in that I have been having reactions to food that is high in free glutamic acid or histamine.

 

Let me know how you're getting on anyway, maybe we can help each other recover.