14 replies to this topic

[Johann]

I was on the Vitamin D3 bandwagon big time a couple of years ago.  Then took loads of it one winter and still got sick.  I'm hearing now that it was because I was taking the corner drugstore dry form instead of the gelcap.  

Right now I use a UVB lamp.  It cost a little over $300.  I am not so much concerned about UV

damage or cancer because of several factors which I would like input:

1. Only used for approximately 8 minutes 4 - 5 times/ week. 

2. Read that some component of UVB light actually stimulates something in the skin to keep it younger (if not over done).

3. I take plenty of B vitamins, Grape Seed Extract, Vitamin E, and avoid processed PUFAs.  This should provide plenty of DNA repair ability (b vitamins), inhibit bad estrogen that leads to cancer (grape seed extract) as well as antioxidants protection with both E and GSE.  




Thoughts?

Sidenote:  While I don't get more than a sniffle getting the vitamin D from the sunlamp, I have noticed that since having my teeth deep cleaned, I really stay way much healthier.  

[nameless]

You are measuring D3 levels via serum, right? And just because you get sick one winter doesn't mean a supplement isn't working. D3 won't prevent all diseases, 100% of the time. You can't dose by sniffles.

[kismet]

I was on the Vitamin D3 bandwagon big time a couple of years ago.  Then took loads of it one winter and still got sick.

First guess: Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Second guess: you screwed up the dose, my other second guess: vitamin D doesn't work for prevention of URIs (possible!)

I'm hearing now that it was because I was taking the corner drugstore dry form instead of the gelcap.  

Or because of your dose (you didn't tell us the dose you used).

Right now I use a UVB lamp.  It cost a little over $300.  I am not so much concerned about UV

I didn't know that apart from smokers, people were actually paying to improve their likelihood of cancer?

3. I take plenty of B vitamins, Grape Seed Extract, Vitamin E, and avoid processed PUFAs.  This should provide plenty of DNA repair ability (b vitamins), inhibit bad estrogen that leads to cancer (grape seed extract) as well as antioxidants protection with both E and GSE.  

Then it's bad, but possibly not as bad. Still a colossal waste, if you did not expose yourself to unnecessary UV radiation you wouldn't need some of those expensive supplements.

And the second relevant variable you didn't tell us, is 25(OH) vitamin D serum levels. 

Edited by kismet, 17 September 2009 - 04:21 PM.

[tunt01]

i always thought a UVB lamp might be a good idea. but i never spent sufficient time analyzing it. i was trying to find a UVB-only tanning salon, which seemed really hard at the time. how has it changed your skin tone, if at all?

[Johann]

I was on the Vitamin D3 bandwagon big time a couple of years ago.  Then took loads of it one winter and still got sick.

First guess: Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Second guess: you screwed up the dose, my other second guess: vitamin D doesn't work for prevention of URIs (possible!)

I'm hearing now that it was because I was taking the corner drugstore dry form instead of the gelcap.  

Or because of your dose (you didn't tell us the dose you used).

Right now I use a UVB lamp.  It cost a little over $300.  I am not so much concerned about UV

I didn't know that apart from smokers, people were actually paying to improve their likelihood of cancer?

3. I take plenty of B vitamins, Grape Seed Extract, Vitamin E, and avoid processed PUFAs.  This should provide plenty of DNA repair ability (b vitamins), inhibit bad estrogen that leads to cancer (grape seed extract) as well as antioxidants protection with both E and GSE.  

Then it's bad, but possibly not as bad. Still a colossal waste, if you did not expose yourself to unnecessary UV radiation you wouldn't need some of those expensive supplements.

And the second relevant variable you didn't tell us, is 25(OH) vitamin D serum levels. 

My skin is tight but don't know if that is due to increased green tea consumption or UVB. And I don't know exactly what my serum levels were but my Rheumatologist said my results were in the normal range.
I was taking 2 to 3000 IU a day of the cheap dry stuff.
I'm satisfied with how I feel with the UVB lamp.

Edited by Johann, 17 September 2009 - 06:52 PM.

[kismet]

UV radiation is a carcinogen, if anyone is planning to deny or downplay this, then please provide evidence against established consensus. I'd be glad to hear how this is a good thing for a life extensionist (cancer, death I think there's some connection right there). Yes, hormesis is certainly a hypothesis, but it's probably foolish to base your life style on mere speculation. Are there any news about radiation hormesis or some such?

There's no reason UV lamp would make you feel bad, after all it's carcinogenic, not neurotoxic. You should keep track of blood levels and see if you get sick this winter (but don't necessarily jump to too many conclusions from one datapoint). No one knows how much vitamin D is enough, but the evidence suggests >30ng/ml, probably more. I stick to ~45ng/ml.

At least we are not the only ones downplaying the risks of UVR, Cannell and Holick do it all the time. 

Edited by kismet, 17 September 2009 - 08:46 PM.

[niner]

My skin is tight but don't know if that is due to increased green tea consumption or UVB. And I don't know exactly what my serum levels were but my Rheumatologist said my results were in the normal range.
I was taking 2 to 3000 IU a day of the cheap dry stuff.
I'm satisfied with how I feel with the UVB lamp.

The skin damage will not show up right away. If you got your vitamin D levels checked, then you should be able to find out what they are; just call the doctor's office and the nurse or receptionist can check your chart. 2-3000 IU would be a reasonable amount in a gelcap, or if taken with a lot of fat. Many people find that UV makes them feel good. Opiate antagonists block this effect. There's a ref on that but I don't have time to dig it up at the moment.

[shaggy]

My skin is tight but don't know if that is due to increased green tea consumption or UVB. And I don't know exactly what my serum levels were but my Rheumatologist said my results were in the normal range.
I was taking 2 to 3000 IU a day of the cheap dry stuff.
I'm satisfied with how I feel with the UVB lamp.

The skin damage will not show up right away. If you got your vitamin D levels checked, then you should be able to find out what they are; just call the doctor's office and the nurse or receptionist can check your chart. 2-3000 IU would be a reasonable amount in a gelcap, or if taken with a lot of fat. Many people find that UV makes them feel good. Opiate antagonists block this effect. There's a ref on that but I don't have time to dig it up at the moment.

Please show me your evidence on how poorly dry form is absorbed. Would taking it with food make a difference?

Thank you

[VespeneGas]

I just don't get it. There is simply no conceivable reason that UVB radiation be preferred to oral supplementation. The latter has been conclusively proven to achieve optimal blood levels (through testing and tailoring the dose), so UVB has no advantage over gelcaps. Meanwhile, UVB increases skin aging and cancer risk, so there's a net disadvantage to UVB exposure vs gelcaps.

Cigarettes make me feel good, that doesn't mean they're a good idea.

[niner]

Please show me your evidence on how poorly dry form is absorbed. Would taking it with food make a difference?

Dr. William Davis, the cardiologist who runs the TrackYourPlaque blog, has a lot of patients on vitamin D. He monitors plasma levels on all of them, and it was his experience that the dry pills just didn't raise blood levels. It should in principle make a difference if they were taken with a meal containing a lot of fat. If you ground up one of the dry pills and mixed it with some fat or oil, it probably wouldn't take much to get it into solution. If you swallow a dry pill, and it has to decompose and find its way to the oil, that's probably a more difficult process. Vitamin D3 costs next to nothing regardless of the formulation, so you might as well get the best.

[fatboy]

I'm satisfied with how I feel with the UVB lamp.

There is simply no conceivable reason that UVB radiation be preferred to oral supplementation.

3 months ago I came in at 31.7 ng/dl (range 32-100) while on 2000IU D3 gelcaps/day for 2 years. Upped it to 10000IU/day. Came in at a whopping 36.4 ng/dl. Going up to 20000IU/day for the next 3 months before my next quarterly labs.

Get some labs Johann.

Edited by fatboy, 18 September 2009 - 02:01 AM.

[niner]

3 months ago I came in at 31.7 ng/dl (range 32-100) while on 2000IU D3 gelcaps/day for 2 years. Upped it to 10000IU/day. Came in at a whopping 36.4 ng/dl. Going up to 20000IU/day for the next 3 months before my next quarterly labs.

Get some labs Johann.

Just for reference, I clocked 57ng/ml on about 3500IU/day. There seems to be some variation in response. presumably has a lot to do with body weight, too. I'm pretty skinny.

[fatboy]

There seems to be some variation in response. presumably has a lot to do with body weight, too. I'm pretty skinny.

I've seen studies which support this. I'm not skinny: 70" @ 210 lbs (down from 270 2 years ago).

[kismet]

Yeah, I'm at 40ng/ml with 2000IU. So that's close to Niner's result (I get somewhat more than the rule of thumb suggests +1ng/ml per 100IU). Fat tissue is probably more important than mere bodyweight, at least as suggested by Cannell.

[Johann]

Yeah, I'm at 40ng/ml with 2000IU. So that's close to Niner's result (I get somewhat more than the rule of thumb suggests +1ng/ml per 100IU). Fat tissue is probably more important than mere bodyweight, at least as suggested by Cannell.

One thing to keep in mind is that through the use of the UVB lamp, endogenous opoids are being released.  This probably has a profound anti-cancerous effect as I've read that Low Dose Naltrexone's power comes from its modulation of the endorphin system.