My mom was trying to convince me of the Linus Pauling theory that Vitamin C and lysine can cure/prevent heart disease:
http://www.thecurefo...HeartCureRD.htm
Is this just quackery?
Posted 13 January 2007 - 05:18 PM
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Posted 20 November 2007 - 10:16 PM
Lysine is a good immune booster, and opposes the absorption of argenine. Whether you want less argenine is a debate on a different part of this forum.
Posted 20 November 2007 - 11:06 PM
Posted 20 November 2007 - 11:20 PM
Edited by wccaguy, 20 November 2007 - 11:58 PM.
Posted 20 November 2007 - 11:55 PM
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Posted 21 November 2007 - 01:52 AM
Because Dr. Pauling first won a Nobel Peace Prize and because he wasn't awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for Vitamin C? Because a cure all is considered a hoax? I happen to agree entirely with a Nobel Prize winner's views on a non-politically correct topic. But because his statements are currently not politically correct he's been blasted, even though if anybody knows about genes, he does.I'm a bit too lazy to check pubmed right now, but have there ever been any high dose vitamin C studies that show either a heart benefit, or any health benefit at all?
By high-dose, I mean at least several grams/day, spread out at 4-5 hour intervals per dose. Most studies that get media attention tend to choose amounts in the 250mg-1 gram range/day, quite often with a single or double dose/day.
I don't buy into the Pauling cure for heart disease, as I think several risk factors come into play, but as a form of prevention it could play a role. But... why hasn't anyone carried out some real, double-blind studies? It seems like something relatively simple to test.
Posted 21 November 2007 - 02:41 AM
Posted 21 November 2007 - 04:40 AM
Well stated.Considering that it is not his area of expertise, using him as a support to an argument is called appeal to authority and is a commonly recognized fallacy in debate. Also he didn't win his Nobel prize for biomolecules, so this is again a fallacy in a real debate about the merits of a subject.
Posted 21 November 2007 - 05:19 AM
Here's the imponderable... Why yearn for an unproven theory to magically be proven true to reduce the risk to yourselves and/or your loved ones when, in fact, there is an approach that exists with enough credible evidence to support it and achieves the same goals?
Posted 21 November 2007 - 08:53 PM
I found a NOW product on iHerb that contains L-Arginine, L-Lysine, and L-Ornithine in the ratios of 300mg, 250mg, and 225mg per capsule. The 2.64 g amount used in the study seems to be a lot, requiring almost 9 capsules.
Stephen
Posted 21 November 2007 - 08:56 PM
I don't think anyone here is saying Dr. Davis' approach is wrong, but just because his program works for his patients, doesn't mean other things won't help too. Maybe what Dr. Davis suggests + C + lysine would work even better?
I'm curious if high dose C has even been studied properly. I know a decent number of folks here mega-dose C, but are there studies that show benefits? I'm not saying there isn't... just that I'm ignorant as to its benefits, if any, that have been studied with real trials.
Posted 22 November 2007 - 03:25 PM
Posted 24 November 2007 - 01:04 PM
Edited by wccaguy, 24 November 2007 - 01:12 PM.
Posted 18 October 2009 - 03:30 PM
Till now saw only one with many grams a day, but various interesting others:I'm a bit too lazy to check pubmed right now, but have there ever been any high dose vitamin C studies that show either a heart benefit, or any health benefit at all?
By high-dose, I mean at least several grams/day, spread out at 4-5 hour intervals per dose. Most studies that get media attention tend to choose amounts in the 250mg-1 gram range/day, quite often with a single or double dose/day.
Edited by pamojja, 18 October 2009 - 04:24 PM.
Posted 04 November 2009 - 11:48 AM
""""Surely a man of Pauling's intellect and capability would not hold fast to his position in light of this finding. Dr. McCormick, by the way, also holds a patent based on this work. That's here:"""A fundamental assumption of Pauling in positing that Lysine was essential to the cure for heart disease was his understanding of the role of a lipoprotein called Lp(a) in cardiovascular disease.
Contrary to widespread popular belief, it's my view that Mathias Rath and others promoting "Pauling's heart disease cure" are not the true heirs of the Pauling's Lysine cure for high Lp(a) legacy.
Instead, I believe that this study led by Sally McCormick makes Dr. McCormick Pauling's true intellectual heir vis-a-vis cardiovascular disease.
Structural features of apolipoprotein B synthetic peptides that inhibit lipoprotein(a) assembly
http://www.jlr.org/c...ract/45/12/2227
Lipoprotein(a) [Lp(a)] is assembled via an initial noncovalent interaction between apolipoprotein B100 (apoB) and apolipoprotein(a) [apo(a)] that facilitates the formation of a disulfide bond between the two proteins. We previously reported that a lysine-rich, {alpha}-helical peptide spanning human apoB amino acids 4372–4392 was an effective inhibitor of Lp(a) assembly in vitro. To identify the important structural features required for inhibitory action, new variants of the apoB4372-4392 peptide were investigated. Introduction of a central leucine to proline substitution abolished the {alpha}-helical structure of the peptide and disrupted apo(a) binding and inhibition of Lp(a) formation. Substitution of hydrophobic residues in the apoB4372-4392 peptide disrupted apo(a) binding and inhibition of Lp(a) assembly without disrupting the {alpha}-helical structure. Substitution of all four lysine residues in the peptide with arginine decreased the IC50 from 40 µM to 5 µM. Complexing of the arginine-substituted peptide to dimyristoylphosphatidylcholine improved its activity further, yielding an IC50 of 1 µM. We conclude that the {alpha}-helical structure of apoB4372-4392, in combination with hydrophobic residues at the lipid/water interface, is crucial for its interaction with apo(a).
Surely a man of Pauling's intellect and capability would not hold fast to his position in light of this finding. Dr. McCormick, by the way, also holds a patent based on this work. That's here:
http://www.wipo.int/...;DISPLAY=STATUS
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But heart disease is a complicated disease and high Lp(a) is not the only culprit in that disease process. So, what's the key to dramatically reducing it's risk in your life?
I believe the answer lies in ensuring that the amount of coronary plaque is not "progressing" but either fixed or regressing. There are plenty of studies that show that. I could point to those references if there is interest.
Who is the person who has made the most significant claims about a specific approach and program for DRAMATICALLY regressing coronary plaque?
To my knowledge that person is Dr. William Davis of TrackYourPlaque.com. He also writes a blog at http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/. I have within the last two months created a post here about his program.
I'm familiar with all the "Pauling/Rath/Fonorow/Tower Labs" sorts of sites... I understand full well that it takes a while to get "unplugged" from thinking in terms of that simple model all too well. Or do you believe that the science of cardiovascular disease has stood still since the year Pauling died?
The work of Dr. William Davis is the best I've found on the 'net about significant and credible coronary plaque regression.
I double dog dare you to become familiar with his program claims of coronary plaque regression and then find someone else on the 'net who makes comparable claims with as much credibility.
Just yesterday, Dr. Davis publicly announced that he will be presenting more formal outcomes data on his approach to coronary plaque regression at a conference in April 2008.
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