We would have just as much ignorance, war, terrorism, etc., without religion.
Really? I dunno. Where would we be today if the Catholic Church hadn't kept science down in the middle ages? If the industrial revolution had happened a couple centuries earlier, life extension would probably be in the bag by now. What would the middle east look like without religion? Pretty different, I think, since religion is the axis that all the fighting revolves around. 9-11 without religion? Iraq war without 9-11? Afghan war without 9-11? Taliban without religion? George Bush without religion? Holocaust without religion?
I'm not trying to argue against religion per se. Religion has done plenty of good for a lot of people, but we shouldn't be blind to the problems it has lead to.
I have to play God's advocate here for this longish post.
You may be right to a large extent with the thing about science being kept down in the middle ages by the Church ( but there's also the problem of how much you can ascribe spiritualy motivated actions to an institution like the medieval Catholic Church which was then something that could be as well described as "the other State", not just a faith denomination ), but I believe the other things are not so clearly cut. I think old Marx got at least this one right - things in history happen more because of what becomes in the "base" than in the "superstructure" of ideology, more often with religion as a pretext than a cause.
Adding to what Morganator said, the reasons why Middle East is how it is stem mainly from the afterglow of past European colonial rivarly, divide et imperia strategy ( especially by Britain, similar thing in Africa - states with borders that were cut out by mongers in cabinets ) on body of the declining Ottoman Sultanate and the Zionist movement's ( which was actually strictly secular and met with opposition of the orthodox Judaism ) mission to resettle Palestine. According to Nial Fergusson a failing empire always makes a fertile breeding ground for violence. Those are the original sins in this region, on it today lie imposed the demographics of Muslim countries and lack of means of influence by the Arab street on their respective, "bunker" governments. Religion is just one element among many at play here, it's only a flashy and loud one, and an atheist may be tempted to put perhaps too much weight on its role in political situation.
Sectarianism often does go hand in hand with it, but essentialy it doesn't need religion to thrive. Hamas and Hezzbollah are religous movements, yes, but more importantly - social ones, filling the gap between the people and their feeble states, that's why they win elections and retain support, not because they are extremely pious. Same with Shya - Sunni thing, it's not just that that they have some disagreements concerning their prophet from 1400 years ago, it's also about animosities between Arabs and Persians - Iraqi Shyas are often perceived as the 5th Column of Iran for example. This kind of conflicts ( Northern Ireland would be another case of what I mean ) are superficially about creeds, but really about matters of loyalty and belonging, "Shya" and "Sunni", "Catholic" and "Protestant" are handy markers of group identity, not a source of action by themselves.
Similarily with Holocaust, traditional Christian anti - Judaism might have had a part, but Nazis weren't about to destroy the Judaic religion but "Jewishness", they were most concerned exactly with those Jews who were not easily distinguishable from Germans by faith or customs, who were babptized and assimilated. Hitler's views on God and Christianity
were often conflicting, he used to talk about "Providence" but also said "Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity" or "We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany." This is what it was all about for them - sacralisation of ethnic identity, "blood" as a faith, Nature as they perceived it was to be deified, so "God" in the old sense wasn't really needed in the equation. At core, Nazism was a metaphisical viewpoint, but vastly independent from the traditional ruling religions and modern racism actually had roots in Enlightment that together with rejecting Bible stories rejected the view of unity of mankind made in God's image ( not like this story did much good for Indians or Africans anyway ).
Religious fanatism may play a role in spectacular, one time events by individuals, like killing an abortionist doctor or 9-11 ( and even here - exactly how important is a certain religious ideology in mind of a fanatic or psychopath ?, it's impossible to accurately assess this ) but the broader a problem, the more diminished the role of it I think is. Bush may have talked about Jesus and stuff, but Iraq wouldn't have ever happened without Neocons by his ear and without oil based economy. Same with the unconditional support for Israeli politics, I'm sure influence of AIPAC mattered to him much more at any time than Evagelical loons waiting for the Temple of Jerusalem to be rebuilt so that Christ can drop with a visit.
To be fair, I think world without religion would be a better place, but I don't suppose it's such a source of political evils as you suggest in your post.
Edited by chris w, 18 September 2010 - 02:47 AM.