i use Lion's Mane since 20 days everyday 900 morning and 900 evening !!!
but since this time i have Sleep disorder i can't sleep all night!!!
who can help me?
thanks!
Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:19 PM
Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:24 PM
Edited by protoject, 27 July 2012 - 07:24 PM.
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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:44 PM
Edited by dasheenster, 27 July 2012 - 08:46 PM.
Posted 28 July 2012 - 12:27 AM
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9136800NGF-promoters tend to make me drowsy, and they seem to enhance sleep in rabbits, though they sometimes increase sleep latency, perhaps due to increased clarity of thought. Therefore, sleep interference from long-term lions mane might be a result of NGF-receptor downregulation, and dysfunction of the NGF system. I therefore recommend you try cycling it, taking it no longer than 10 days at a time, to see if this resolves the issue.
That would be very murderous if TrkA was actually downregulated by NGF as low concentrations of NGF and TrkA downregulation are found in alzheimer patients.Surprisingly, neither NGF deprivation nor augmentation altered the extent of TrkA down-regulation.
Edited by renfr, 28 July 2012 - 12:28 AM.
Posted 28 July 2012 - 12:31 AM
Edited by dasheenster, 28 July 2012 - 12:35 AM.
Posted 28 July 2012 - 01:25 AM
Posted 28 July 2012 - 01:54 AM
What do you mean CNS? Aren't motor neurons supposed to be in the CNS? by CNS I mean Central Nervous SystemMurderous? That's extreme. Lots of things which average people indulge in are positively correlated with Alzheimers; inflammation, stress/depression, excessive viral loads (perhaps due to congenitally dysfunctional immune systems), poor circulation, etc...yet these contributing factors do not, on their own, trigger the disease in otherwise insusceptible people.
Though it is in sensory/motor neurons, and not neurons in the CNS, this study shows downregulation of a certain NGF receptor type is possible, suggesting, at least theoretically, that other subtypes might also undergo downregulation as a result of abnormally high (excessive) levels of agonism. I would suspect these levels to rebound after a few days of abstinance from NGF-releasing or -mimetic agents, and to not pose a threat to healthy people, but rather to provide a benefit, provided they are cycled appropriately. This is purely induction, and we all know about the inductive fallacy.
Have you tried making a break and see if symptoms disappear?but i had Sleep disorder from the first day i toke it!
i feel like awake!!like iam on coffee or something!
but wat make me crazy i can sleep in day time!!
thanks
Posted 28 July 2012 - 04:32 AM
Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:51 AM
Posted 28 July 2012 - 11:39 AM
Would you recommend pure mushroom powder or only the extract with active components? If we supplement natural powder how much is the normal dose?Our results demonstrate a novel form of regulation of neurotrophin receptor expression that occurs late in development. The subsequent down-regulation of TrkA is likely to be importantly related to functional distinctions among nociceptive neurons in maturity.
In addition, we observed that prolonged exposure to nerve growth factor of TrkA-transfected cells did not lead to the down-regulation seen with BDNF and TrkB. Link
Dont worry and mix your lions mane with some boiling water and make a potent gravy and put it on any meat! Its soo good. Also get the full spectrum of the mushroom. Only $33 a pound!
Also Ive had no problem with sleep, At first it seemed enhanced but now I don't notice as much (my own fault). Ive even taken some breaks of a couples days at a time.
Posted 28 July 2012 - 04:36 PM
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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:06 AM
Edited by renfr, 29 July 2012 - 12:08 AM.
Posted 29 July 2012 - 05:55 AM
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Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:57 AM
5g is effective as proven by one study, but I take 3g everyday of full spectrum natural lions mane powder and I feel it.
Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:52 AM
Conversely, chimeric receptors composed of the extracellular domain of TrkA and the intracellular domain of TrkB (Trk A/B, Fig. 4) bound NGF and were down-regulated following NGF treatment.
Edited by dasheenster, 30 July 2012 - 11:56 AM.
Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:50 PM
Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:47 PM
You can get Lion's mane powder on eBay or you can buy it in a mushroom shop or maybe a chinese herbalist.5g is effective as proven by one study, but I take 3g everyday of full spectrum natural lions mane powder and I feel it.
Where you get that please.
Bacopa boosts T4? What does that mean then when I get no sedation from it? A long time ago when I first tried it, it gave me massive drowsiness. I took several racetams and they cancelled out the effect however when I didn't take any racetam I would get drowsy again.In reference to Kevin's study,
Conversely, chimeric receptors composed of the extracellular domain of TrkA and the intracellular domain of TrkB (Trk A/B, Fig. 4) bound NGF and were down-regulated following NGF treatment.
It appears that exposure to NGF does down-regulate at least one member of the RTK superfamily.
Now I will distinguish between sedation/arousal, and fatigue/energy. It is possible to be aroused, yet fatigued, or, conversely, to be sedated, yet energetic. In this sense, it is a mistake to confuse "drowsiness" (tiredness) (from my earlier post, OK not the best word choice) with "sleepiness" (meaning sedated). This blog explains the difference a little better than me.
The questions then arise, is lion's mane primarily sedentary or arousing, and is it primarily tiring or inspiring? I have not noticed it making me tired/fatigued. Bacopa, which boosts T4, and is implicated in serotonergic function, makes me tired but aroused. Probably it's causing me to think more, therefore increasing sleep latency. Boosting T4 might produce symptoms similar to hyperthyroidism. Quoting this site, "Patients with hyperthyroidism usually experience fatigue at the end of the day, but have trouble sleeping [properly]". I think healthy people will adjust to reasonable doses of bacopa and will not experience insomnia and fatigue, and a desire to think before falling asleep. Light exercise has similar effects for me, though not completely consistently, of causing insomnia with paradoxical fatigue. However, to this, I do not develop a tolerance, unlike bacopa. Strenuous exercise can sometimes give me physical energy, though it makes me very sleepy (see this http://www.nytimes.c...ion/13Best.html). Opposing forces...
Now it's not clear whether nor not the responses are the body liking the endorphins (strenuous exercise), or the body trying to compensate for T4 (bacopa)/blood flow (light exercise). When the body sleeps longer, or upregulates a certain factor, it is not always clear whether it does so because that factor is enhancing function, or because the factor is causing damage which the body must compensate for. In the case of strenuous exercise, people probably sleep more to compensate for damage, possibly cortisol-induced damage. Whereas something like phosphatidylserine, which is anecdotally reported to enhance sleep in some, tends to shorten sleep and make it easier to get out of bed in the morning, at least for me. This, I think, is not because it worsens sleep quality and makes sleeping difficult, but because it improves it sleep quality, and therefore reduces the amount we need to feel rested.
Back to lion's mane. I think NGF causes arousal and sedation, though I'm not sure yet which effect dominates. I retract my statement that it makes me tired/fatigued, since I haven't noticed any significant drop in energy levels from it. It could be subtle, but I can't say for sure. It might even give me energy, but the effect is almost certainly minimal. As with strenuous exercise, I'm not sure if NGF-promoters cause arousal, which our bodies cope with by sleeping longer with a lower quality sleep, or if they cause sedation, which our bodies respond to be indulging in high-quality, lengthy sleeping sessions. There's probably a little of both going on. If I had to guess based on my experience, lion's mane is more sedative than arousing. I would guess that prolonged use of it thus leads to downregulation of whichever receptors it mediates "enhanced sleep" through, and therefore to insomnia. It's all guess-work though, and we'd need more studies or more anecdotes to see what is really going on.
I agree that the OP needs to eliminate other variables (especially caffeine ;P) before he can attribute his insomnia to lion's mane.
Posted 30 July 2012 - 10:48 PM
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