35 replies to this topic

[guyledouche]

I recently read this article and realized that I have almost all of these symptoms of dopamine deficiency.

What would be the best ways to optimize my dopamine levels?

Dopamine deficiencies can lead to some of the following symptoms:

Anemia
Blood sugar instability
Bone density loss
High blood pressure
Low sex drive and/or difficulty achieving orgasm
Joint pain
Thyroid disorders
Aggression (paradoxically)
Anger
Depression
Inability to handle stress
Guilt or feelings of worthlessness
Excessive sleep
Mood swings
Slow thought processing speed
Forgetfulness
Attention deficit disorder
Hyperactivity
Failure to finish tasks

full article>>>>> http://www.createvib...alth.com/NT.htm

Edited by guyledouche, 01 April 2006 - 02:15 AM.

[superpooper]

You should look into buying the book "The Edge Effect". Here are a couple of supplements he recommends in the book (but not all of them):]

-Chromium
-L-Tyrosine
-D/L-phenylalanine
-b complex
-rhodiola

[guyledouche]

You should look into buying the book "The Edge Effect".  Here are a couple of supplements he recommends in the book (but not all of them):]

-Chromium
-L-Tyrosine
-D/L-phenylalanine
-b complex
-rhodiola

Thanx super, I already have the tyrosine(cant feel a difference on it) and the rhodiola. Im interested in the D/L phen and the b-complex. I already have enough chromium in my diet + multi. Is the b-50 complex from NOW a good enough B-complex?

Does anybody know how many things I can stack before my dopamine levels become too high??

[zoolander]

The main test in the book "the Edge Effect" looks at neurotransmitter system dominance and deficencies. Work out your dominant system and deficient systems. From this you can work out how to balance the systems by modifying your diet and environment.

For example, if you are dopamine deficient, then deprenyl supplementation may be an option for you. However, if you show dopamine dominance, then deprenyl supplementation would not be advised.

It is attached below

Attached Files

•  BRAVERMAN_assesment.pdf   159.85KB   3494 downloads

[scottl]

Does anybody know how many things I can stack before my dopamine levels become too high??

Nooo but psychosis has been linked to excess dopamine. Listen to Zoolander.

[guyledouche]

The main test in the book "the Edge Effect" looks at neurotransmitter system dominance and deficencies. Work out your dominant system and deficient systems. From this you can work out how to balance the systems by modifying your diet and environment.

For example, if you are dopamine deficient, then deprenyl supplementation may be an option for you. However, if you show dopamine dominance, then deprenyl supplementation would not be advised.

It is attached below

I just took the test and my dopamine deficiency is worse than I thought it was. I answered 17 Trues for the Dopamine deficient part. My acetylcholine was kinda bad also. It was 14 trues. The other 2 are fine. Could you guys please recommend something for me. I cant afford a doctor or meds. That is not even an option right now. I always wondered why I let people use me and walk all over me. Its cause of my Dopamine levels.

[zoolander]

There is no need to worry re. being able to not afford a doctor or meds. you can and we can, do our best to help your find the best way to deal with your current situation.

Alot of the time imbalances occur because you have overreached your particular set point for something. In saying this though, we must take into account that individuals will have varying degrees of tone. What I mean by this is that one person may naturally reside in what appears to be a hyperactive mode. So, their autonomic tone is predominantly sympathetic. Someone correct me here if they believe I am wrong because I am just using this example to demonstrate my point.

So this person has a "natural" hyperactive tone. Note the word "natural". This most probably means that the "natural tone" is a genetic predisposition to be hyperactive i.e they were born with it. This is where prometheus is coming from (I think). What is your genetic predisposition? I think we all can remember and may still know, people who ate what ever they wanted but never got fat. Well they are most likely born with a more active metabolism and operate well in this environment. But if they tried to shift the balance so that they were not overly or underly active, they would most likely have problems. Have a look at your parents.

I believe the key here is to find what your natural balance is. The environment in which you are most healthy and productive.

I must say, I am reluctant to give you any direct advice on how to change your lifestyle related to balancing your neurotransmitter systems as depression, psychosis or all sorts of nasty situations could occur. It's here that I draw the line. I am not a doctor.

I am a person who cares though so will do my best to help you by perhaps giving guidance (as with the book), sharing my own related experiances and by giving support and encouragement when needed. I need to hear more about your problem though.

I hope that we can all help, time permitting, as a group of collective resources.

[zoolander]

did all of that make sense or was just another one of my self-indulgent tangents? <laughing at self>

[zoolander]

So for starters.....

dopamine deficient: then read about and consider the use of dopamine precursors (tyrosine, Phenylalanine) and MAO-B inhibitor (selegiline)

acetylcholine deficient: then read about and consider the use of acetylcholine/choline precursors (DMAE, Huperzine A, alpha-GPC), and/or acetylcholineesterase inhibitors (galantamine) to increase synaptic acetylcholine.

The list is not an extensive one but a good starting point for your investigation.

HEADS UP: The acetylcholine and dominergic neurotransmitter systems tend to work together. Remember that you are working to find a balance. Be mindful of potential imbalances, such as a choline imbalance.

[guyledouche]

thanx zoolander. I didnt know that dopamine and acetylcholine work together. I am gonna try and balance them. I dont think that selegiline is a good idea for me considering Im 23.

[zoolander]

Then try using isolated amino acid precursors such as phenylalanine and tyrosine. On an empty stomach away from other amino acids.

If you are dopamine deficient, this will usually give you a great felling of overall wellness. I remember using pheny and tyrosine when I was studying for exams and it really made me feel on top of the world.

I know that you would probably know it if you had it but I just want to warn about phenylketonuria (PKU). Of course, you should not take phenylaline if you had PKU.

It's all good [thumb]

[zoolander]

What are your dominat traits? Lets not push them over the edge

[guyledouche]

What are your dominat traits? Lets not push them over the edge

My dominant traits are all pretty close to each other. I dont think I have any dominants. 14 trues for GABA and 13 for Dopamine were my highest. I have taken Tyrosine up to 2 grams at a time and didnt really feel much except appetite suppresion. Does it take a few times to work? Im interested in the Phenyl also. Did you mix them together at the same time?

[zoolander]

guyledouche said:

I just took the test and my dopamine deficiency is worse than I thought it was. I answered 17 Trues for the Dopamine deficient part.

and I then I approached the situation, thinking that you were dopamine deficient.

I asked you in my last post

  What are your dominat traits? Lets not push them over the edge

and you replied:

My dominant traits are all pretty close to each other. I dont think I have any dominants. 14 trues for GABA and 13 for Dopamine were my highest.

WTF! Are you dopamine deficient or dominant? YOU need to be mindful of what you say and how you communicate it. I have been advising you on ways to increase your dopamine levels. If you are dominant, as you mentioned in the last reply, ignore what I have said so far.

Guyledouche, can you please try and get a copy of the "Edge effect" to read. Until then, I am taking a step back.

No soup for YOU!

Edited by zoolander, 02 April 2006 - 09:40 PM.

[orangish]

sion.

So I am undergoing treatment with neuroscienceinc (which tests neurotransmitter levels) (which hasn't been as remarkably successful as hoped thus far...)...and have had to reconsider the approach because of lingering troublesome symptoms. Anyhow, I'm trying to figure out why exactly the products haven't worked that magnificently thus far. I was on a product called prevamine to help with my focus problems:

PrevAmine includes theanine and taurine to enhance GABA function. The PrevAmine formula supports serotonin neurotransmission via 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) and includes a combination of the D- and L- forms of phenylalanine to support the formation of the catecholamines and the neurotransmitter phenylethylamine (PEA). PEA is associated with increased attentiveness and reduced depression.

The green tea EGCG is a polyphenol that has been studied for its antioxidant, neuro-protective, and cancer preventing properties. EGCG is included in PrevAmine specifically for its neuro-protective effects. PrevAmine is used to prevent the return of neurotransmitter-related complaints and maintain neurotransmitter levels after the optimizing phase of the NeuroScience Optimizing Program.

Other ingredients in PrevAmine are vitamin and mineral cofactors of the enzymes required for the synthesis of neurotransmitters.

Unfortunately, my focus is pretty ambling still...and I know there may be other contributing factors, since I do have some anxiety...but I also feel that my anxiety comes from not being able to focus (which could be tied to other problems as well, ahh it's gotten too complicated at this point). Right now, I'm trying to understand the neurotransmitter bit independently, to assess why it hasn't worked, what would work (because I'm still putting some of these products into me and it would be comforting to know what they do asides cost money). So my question: I don't have all the neurotransmitter levels in front of me, but know (for whatever reason) my dopamine is low, my epipineprhine and norepineprhine are low as well. But my PEA levels were fine. Now would it make sense that a substance like prevamine would enhance my dopamine or just pea levels? Because taking the PEA makes me more depressed and drained...So I'm wondering if anyone knows more specifics on the pathway interactions that would explain if PEA would have any benefit at all?
*for future purpose, when I feel well enough to be on some sort of stimulating substance

[guyledouche]

On the dominant test everything was so close together. between 9 and 14 trues. According to the test wouldnt that mean Im not dominant in any of them? Im gonna try and get that book real soon. There is no way in hell that Im dopamine dominant. I would be able to tell. I feel much different after boosting my dopamine levels. I get very hyper, happy, and confident when I use caffeine. Caffeine responders are dopamine deficient right?

[orangish]

check out neuroscienceinc.net and see what you think. not touting them. i ventured out on a limb to try and correct a dopamine deficiency problem on my own..

[zoolander]

I get very hyper, happy, and confident when I use caffeine. Caffeine responders are dopamine deficient right

I don't think that you can conclude that you are dopamine deficient on just that. I remember you saying once that you had a huge libido. If so, this could be a sign of dopamine dominance. Once again though, you cannot conclude on just that. That is why Dr.Braverman uses a series of questions in which he also states, is just a guideline.

In the book there are sepearet tests for dominance and deficiency. The different tests have a series of different questions. You cannot say that you are dopamine deficient if you scored low in the dopamine dominance test as the dominance test was designed for dominace determination only.

I tell all my students that they should read the lab book before they come to the lab practical class. I guess this is where you may have gone wrong. It may not be your fault either.

You need to read the chapters related to the tests before you do the test. These chapters explain the tests as well as explain the test results. Hence, its a good idea to get the book.

It's a great book by the way. I give it the [thumb]

[orangish]

revised question:
How does one ensure that phenylalanine is converted to dopamine and not PEA? What would happen if one consumed phenylalanine indepently for many months, would that interfere with the phenylalanine hydroxylase enzyme? Simply put, it seems that if the phenylalanine hydroxylase enyzme is working correctly then phenylalanine is made into dopamine and PEA as a sort of equilibriary process--any other insght into the process? How does one ensure that it works?

*Orangish's posts regarding dopamine deficiency moved into this thread, per his request. -Funk

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 03 April 2006 - 05:30 PM.

[zoolander]

Making sure that an enzyme contained within a metabolic pathways works would be dependant on a few factors.

1. The precursors/building blocks being avaliable to produce the enzyme in question.

2. The precursors/building blocks being available to produce any co-factors that assist the enzyme in question, and

3. Most importantly I would say, an available coding area, replication and transcription factors for the enzyme and co-factors involved.

The modifaction/regulation of metabolic pathways in most situations is determined by substrate levels and postive/negative feedback mechanisms.

So what can we do? Well unless you have a poor diet or problem with that pathway, a healthy diet should be good enough in most situations to provide the building blocks that you need.

[Ghostrider]

I recently read this article and realized that I have almost all of these symptoms of dopamine deficiency.

What would be the best ways to optimize my dopamine levels?

Dopamine deficiencies can lead to some of the following symptoms:

Anemia
Blood sugar instability
Bone density loss
High blood pressure
Low sex drive and/or difficulty achieving orgasm
Joint pain
Thyroid disorders
Aggression (paradoxically)
Anger
Depression
Inability to handle stress
Guilt or feelings of worthlessness
Excessive sleep
Mood swings
Slow thought processing speed
Forgetfulness
Attention deficit disorder
Hyperactivity
Failure to finish tasks

full article>>>>> http://www.createvib...alth.com/NT.htm

guyledouche, I would be careful about jumping to conclusions based on that survey. Most people probably match at least some of those characteristics without having a dopamine deficiency.

[carnosine]

I've tried some pure PEA from CNW with pretty good results.

[zoolander]

Can you confirm this for that for us prometheus. I think if you have an idea of who you may think is posting as Edward, it would be good to know.

How are you by the way matey?

EDIT: Just noticed another post relating to carnosine and Edward Younan. Disregard

Edited by zoolander, 29 April 2006 - 04:01 PM.

[xanadu]

Oh geez, here we go again. Can we put an end to this nonsense or is prometheus going to drag it out forever? Why don't you just ban anyone from Chicago?

[guyledouche]

Hi Zoolander, it is almost a year later and I have finally boughten "The Edge Effect". I saw it at Barnes n Noble and remembered you recommending it to me so I decided to pick it up. I love this book. It is great. I took the test in the book and it still says I have a dopamine defiencency.

[niner]

guyledouche, how are you feeling now? If things are the same, here is an alternative to consider: maybe you are suffering from plain old depression, perhaps with a component of anxiety. Below is that dopamine list. Aside from maybe the first four, the rest of it sounds like a "you may be depressed if" table. I'd recommend that you talk to a doctor about it and see if an SSRI would help. Aside from that, I would try the following: Lots of exercise, spend some time outdoors, and quit drinking and smoking weed if you use either of them. If you do these for a year, you'll feel like a new man.

Depression can lead to most of the following symptoms:

Anemia
Blood sugar instability
Bone density loss
High blood pressure
Low sex drive and/or difficulty achieving orgasm
Joint pain
Thyroid disorders
Aggression (paradoxically)
Anger
Depression
Inability to handle stress
Guilt or feelings of worthlessness
Excessive sleep
Mood swings
Slow thought processing speed
Forgetfulness
Attention deficit disorder
Hyperactivity
Failure to finish tasks

[purerealm]

I think I may also be dopamine deficient. I have no willpower and have extreme trouble sustaining attention. For the braverman I took did the first 34 questions then realized I wasn't even half way and abandoned it. I have no ambition, no energy, no interests. Always irritable, never feel like socializing, don't have anything to say, lack of novel thoughts, everything is just dull and boring.

Does this sound like dopamine deficiency?

I just sort of seep in my own boredom until it gets unbearable, and then I just keep on going on.

And when I take dexedrine, it's like I'm normal. I take interest in things, don't feel this overwhelming boredom and this need to do something about it. I am content doing whatever I am doing, feel like socializing. Could be the normal effects of amphetamine, but it's such a pronounced change for me I feel that maybe this dopamine is really behind all of this.

guyledouche, how are you feeling now? If things are the same, here is an alternative to consider: maybe you are suffering from plain old depression, perhaps with a component of anxiety. Below is that dopamine list. Aside from maybe the first four, the rest of it sounds like a "you may be depressed if" table. I'd recommend that you talk to a doctor about it and see if an SSRI would help. Aside from that, I would try the following: Lots of exercise, spend some time outdoors, and quit drinking and smoking weed if you use either of them. If you do these for a year, you'll feel like a new man.

Depression can lead to most of the following symptoms:

Anemia
Blood sugar instability
Bone density loss
High blood pressure
Low sex drive and/or difficulty achieving orgasm
Joint pain
Thyroid disorders
Aggression (paradoxically)
Anger
Depression
Inability to handle stress
Guilt or feelings of worthlessness
Excessive sleep
Mood swings
Slow thought processing speed
Forgetfulness
Attention deficit disorder
Hyperactivity
Failure to finish tasks