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Stem cell self-renewal with C60

c60 stem cells mitochondria fusion stearic acid aging hydroxytyrosol olive oil mct oil proliferation

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#151 lost69

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 02:44 PM

is it ok to heat up oat milk to boiling point and then mix raw cocoa+stearic acid?

 

i m preparing second round and this is the only way i found to really get it dissolved but i have no idea if this can change stearic acid or affect this protocol in a bad way



#152 Turnbuckle

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 02:52 PM

is it ok to heat up oat milk to boiling point and then mix raw cocoa+stearic acid?

 

i m preparing second round and this is the only way i found to really get it dissolved but i have no idea if this can change stearic acid or affect this protocol in a bad way

 

 

You can't hurt stearic acid that way. It doesn't decompose until about 450F. See post #7.



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#153 Nate-2004

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:21 PM

Turnbuckle I know some of your efforts in this protocol have been to stimulate stem cells in the brain as well as elsewhere. I saw this posted on Fight Aging:

 

https://www.fightagi...-cell-activity/

 

 

 

Researchers have found that a physical mechanism in the brain, the flow of cerebrospinal fluid and the shear forces generated by that flow, influences the activity of neural stem cells via a distinctive set of biochemical signals. This will in turn influence the rate of neurogenesis, the creation of new neurons and their integration into existing neural networks. This process is important in learning, neurodegeneration, and the resilience of the brain when it comes to recovery from damage.

 

It is worth considering this recent discovery in the context of what is already known of reduced and impeded drainage of cerebrospinal fluid with age. The system of spaces through which cerebrospinal fluid circulates is not entirely closed off from the rest of the body, and normally drainage serves to remove metabolic wastes from the brain. It is thought that loss of drainage with age is an important contributing cause of the buildup of protein aggregates found in many neurodegenerative conditions, particularly the amyloid associated with Alzheimer's disease.

 

More generally, the production of cerebrospinal fluid declines with age, its fluid pressure falls, and the flow characteristics both change and diminish. It is well known that neurogenesis rates also fall with aging, at least in the well explored mouse brain, and setting aside the present controversy over the existence of adult human neurogenesis. That the fluid dynamics of cerebrospinal fluid ties into this aspect of aging is perhaps an important advance in understanding, given that we are likely to see an increased focus on this part of the brain's physiology from the Alzheimer's research community in the years ahead.

 

https://www.helmholt...4505/index.html

 

Two things about this, I read that sleeping on your side could (well, at least in mice) improve the flow of CSF, apparently exercise does this as well. So good news if you're a side sleeper like me.  I also read recently and now I can't find it, that older people sleep less because their brain thinks they don't need it, but apparently they actually do. So there are a lot of recommendations on improving sleep, it's also part of the guide to conquering depression I posted elsewhere and have yet to get back to finishing. It may have something to do with CSF flow.

 

 


Edited by Nate-2004, 22 May 2018 - 02:26 PM.

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#154 Turnbuckle

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:05 PM

Sounds like inversion therapy might have a real basis.


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#155 Turnbuckle

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 01:30 AM

Stem cell self-renewal protocol, update 2

 

The following looks complicated with a lot of supplements. But the core protocol requires just 2 things — stearic acid and C60. The basic idea is to put mitochondria into fusion with stearic acid, then to stimulate stem cells into symmetric division with C60. Mitochondrial morphology (fusion vs fission) biases division to either symmetric or asymmetric division. We want symmetric division for self-renewal and expansion of the stem cell pool — one stem cell becoming two. Then with the next treatment two becomes four, and so on in a compound interest fashion. Everything else is to protect stem cell telomeres and to make the process more efficient. The timing is based on cellular processes that run at different rates.

 

 

Time 0 (morning on empty stomach) —

Core brand Liposomal Glutathione — .5 g

Astragalus root extract powder — 5 g, in fruit juice, and/or Cycloastragenol — 10 mg

 

Optional —

L-Selenocysteine — 400 µg

One cap of LEF brand “Only Trace Minerals.”

 

Time 1:00 —

Stearic acid — 10 g, in brownie or hot chocolate (post #7)

 

 Time 2:00 —

TUDCA — 500 mg

PQQ — 40 mg

Jiaogulan — 800 mg (or LEF brand AMPK activator)

L-Threonine — 5 g

 

Optional—

ALA — 600 mg

Taurine — 5 g

NAC — 600 mg

 

Time 3:00 —

C60 — 1 teaspoon of .6 mg/ml in oil, 3 mg C60

Vitamin C — 2 g

 

Optional —

Potassium nitrate — 300 mg

Gym at Time 3:30

And later, if feeling fatigue, 5 g L-Threonine + tablespoon of olive oil

 

 

I typically use all the options.

 

Suggested schedule —

Three days in a row, then a break of two or more days.

 

 

 

Notes —

 

C60

The fullerene C60 dissolved in oil is known to be an excellent antioxidant, and also has the ability to stimulate stem cells. The mechanism vis-à-vis stem cells has not appeared in published research, but I believe it is a physical feature of C60—that once attracted to the mitochondria for whatever reason, it has the right size and shape to plug UCP2 pores. These pores act as a governor on the ATP output by allowing protons to escape. Stem cell mitochondria are covered up with these pores, and thus function mostly by glycolysis rather than by oxidative processes. UCP2 pores are known to disappear before a stem cell begins dividing, and C60 appears to mimic that step by blocking the pores.

 

“We have shown that only UCP2 is present in undifferentiated stem cells and it disappears simultaneously with the initiation of neuronal differentiation.”

 

Thus if you take C60 from one of the online vendors and hope to live longer as the rats did, you probably won’t. In fact, by using up stem cells through asymmetric division, you may be robbing your future health to get an immediate but temporary benefit. This was not apparent with the rat trial as rats don’t live long enough for it to make a difference.

 

Stearic acid

Fusion was the missing factor all along. Stearic acts almost like a hormone, driving mitochondria into fusion, and fusion itself biases stem cells to self-renewal.

 

“We find that animal cells are poised to respond to both increases and decreases in C18:0 levels, with increased C18:0 dietary intake boosting mitochondrial fusion in vivo.”

 

And, “In this model, elongated [fused] mitochondria in NSCs [neural stem cells] maintain low ROS levels and promote self-renewal…”

 

Supplements to lengthen telomeres include antioxidants to reduce telomere shortening and supplements that stimulate telomerase. Since none are known to do the job completely, I’ve included a number of them 

Glutathione

Astragalus root extract

Cycloastragenol

TUDCA

ALA

NAC

Vitamin C

L-Selenocysteine

 

Supplements to increase mitochondrial biogenesis and efficiency—

PQQ

Trace minerals

C60

 

Supplements that support stem cell nutrition—

L-Threonine

Taurine

 

Supplements that stimulate stem cells proliferation—

C60

TUDCA

 

Supplements that stimulate muscle stem cells (satellite cells)—

Potassium nitrate (forms NO)

NAC + Taurine (forms H2S)

These work with exercise

 

Glutathione

I used Core brand Liposomal Glutathione for bioavailability. Optionally you could break open a cap or two of ordinary reduced glutathione, mix it in a little water and take it on an empty stomach, lying on your left side for 10-15 minutes for gastric absorption.

 

How to take

L-Threonine, taurine and NAC can be mixed into fruit juice. Mix dry powders first for best dispersion of NAC (which is rather corrosive). Stearic acid in brownies or hot chocolate on an empty stomach speeds up the digestion and absorption. Digestion of raw stearic acid powder or flakes (which does not melt at body temp) will likely take a long and variable amount of time. Imagine digesting candle wax.


Edited by Turnbuckle, 24 May 2018 - 01:45 AM.

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#156 Andey

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 09:45 AM

 

C60

The fullerene C60 dissolved in oil is known to be an excellent antioxidant, and also has the ability to stimulate stem cells. The mechanism vis-à-vis stem cells has not appeared in published research, but I believe it is a physical feature of C60—that once attracted to the mitochondria for whatever reason, it has the right size and shape to plug UCP2 pores. These pores act as a governor on the ATP output by allowing protons to escape. Stem cell mitochondria are covered up with these pores, and thus function mostly by glycolysis rather than by oxidative processes. UCP2 pores are known to disappear before a stem cell begins dividing, and C60 appears to mimic that step by blocking the pores.

 

“We have shown that only UCP2 is present in undifferentiated stem cells and it disappears simultaneously with the initiation of neuronal differentiation.”

 

Thus if you take C60 from one of the online vendors and hope to live longer as the rats did, you probably won’t. In fact, by using up stem cells through asymmetric division, you may be robbing your future health to get an immediate but temporary benefit. This was not apparent with the rat trial as rats don’t live long enough for it to make a difference.

 

 

 

    What do you think an elimination time of c60 is?

 I haven't taken it for 3 years for reasons like this, as it looked like I am actually getting worse after 2 years of it. I 've just internalized at a time that as 'its wrong to take antioxidants constantly'. Even if I took it intermittently, once a week.

 Now I took it again for few times and noticed some positive changes like more small hairs on hands, but don't want to mess it up again. 

 Would it help to not overstress a system with aerobic exercise while C60 is still in a system?



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#157 ryukenden

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:31 AM

You make some excellent points. Certainly stem cell aging via shortening of telomeres could explain the fading of C60 effects, assuming that C60 promotes stem cell proliferation as I think it does. And that could bring about a situation of getting anti-aging effects now and paying for it later by more rapid aging--something that would not be evident in short lived rats. Another point is timing. When stem cells proliferate, that provides a window of opportunity to lengthen their telomeres. And one possibility is controlling the nuclear redox state--keeping it in a relatively reduced state to raise the activity of telomerase.

 

Fusion itself lowers ROS and thus should tend to produce a more reduced cellular environment--

 

 

--and so will higher GSH levels, as GSH is the cells major reducing agent and is known to raise the activity of telomerase. --

 

 

Also, a reduced nuclear environment is associated with proliferating cells--

 

 

--thus supplements to aid this nuclear environment during stem cell self-renewal should help keep stem cells young. Fusion and supplements that increase GSH, in particular. 

 

I was thinking to take my C60OO which I ordered a couple of months ago. Now looking at the above post, it makes me worried to try it now.



#158 Turnbuckle

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:54 AM

    What do you think an elimination time of c60 is?

 I haven't taken it for 3 years for reasons like this, as it looked like I am actually getting worse after 2 years of it. I 've just internalized at a time that as 'its wrong to take antioxidants constantly'. Even if I took it intermittently, once a week.

 Now I took it again for few times and noticed some positive changes like more small hairs on hands, but don't want to mess it up again. 

 Would it help to not overstress a system with aerobic exercise while C60 is still in a system?

 

 

There is as yet no definitive answer on C60's half-life. A study was done on C70 conjugated with Texas Red that showed some was still detectable in the body after a week, suggesting a half-life of a day or two. And of course it is not fullerenes in the body or even in the cells, but in the mitochondria that make a difference. While there is no published research directly on point, I expect the half life in mitochondria is less than a day, judging by its effect on alcohol. Back in 2012 some here speculated that it might stay there for a very long time, as they were trying to justify their thinking that the positive results came from its super antioxidant properties, but they never had any proof of that.

 

As for combining this protocol with exercise, that's what I have done, but it doesn't mean it's the only way. After all, I have only one subject to work with and thus haven't tried every variation.

 


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#159 QuestforLife

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 12:29 PM

Let us assume for a minute that the Baati results are real, and will eventually be replicated.

 

That being the case Turnbuckle, are you saying that the protective effects of C60 against CCl4-induced oxidative stress are mediated by the anti-oxidant properties of C60, but the lifespan extension effects are caused by enhancement of stem cell self renewal?

 

That would explain how the effects could be so long lasting after a limited number of doses.

 

I really think this could be a very valuable protocol. I myself have not noticed any significant effects as yet, but I am only 39 and have only done 2 cycles of 2 days each. I would expect the effects to take some time to become apparent. 


Edited by QuestforLife, 24 May 2018 - 12:30 PM.

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#160 Turnbuckle

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:51 PM

Let us assume for a minute that the Baati results are real, and will eventually be replicated.

 

That being the case Turnbuckle, are you saying that the protective effects of C60 against CCl4-induced oxidative stress are mediated by the anti-oxidant properties of C60, but the lifespan extension effects are caused by enhancement of stem cell self renewal?

 

That would explain how the effects could be so long lasting after a limited number of doses.

 

I really think this could be a very valuable protocol. I myself have not noticed any significant effects as yet, but I am only 39 and have only done 2 cycles of 2 days each. I would expect the effects to take some time to become apparent. 

 

 

I think you probably won't see much difference if you are young and still have a sufficient stem cell pool, whereas if you are old and have a depleted pool, I expect it will take a number of cycles to build it up. I've done about twenty treatments to date and the effect is dramatic.

 

As for the Baati paper, the CCl4 experiment was separate--

 

2.4. Effects of C60-olive oil solutions on oxidative stress
Sixty rats randomly divided into 10 groups of 6 rats were pre-treated daily for 7
days by oral gavages (og groups) or by i.p. injection (ip groups). Groups A (GAog and
GAip), received 1 ml of water. Groups B and C (GBog, GCog and GBip, GCip) were
pretreated with 1 ml of olive oil while groups D and E (GDog, GEog and GDip, GEip)
were pre-treated with 1 ml of C60-olive oil.
Twenty-four hours before sacrifice, groups GA, GC and GE were i.p. injected
with a single dose of CCl4 (1 ml/kg bw) while GB and GD, used as controls, were
administered with a 0.9% NaCl aqueous solution under the same conditions.

 

 

 
So a daily dose of C60 for a week, then a shot of poison, then killed a day later. The livers of the C60 treated rats were impressively healthy, while the others looked awful. And while a separate experiment, it led many to believe this obvious antioxidant effect had something to do with the longevity experiment. Whereas I expect the increase in life-span was due to C60 inducing asymmetric proliferation. This can go for years before using up the stem cell pool. So with this protocol I'm trying to refill the pool, not to get an immediate benefit (though there will likely be some somatic cells being created if fusion is only biasing the cells toward symmetric division).

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#161 Turnbuckle

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Posted Yesterday, 11:22 AM

Two variations:

 

1. The last posted protocol done in the evening, with running the next morning. No potassium nitrate. Seemed to work fine.

2. Same as the first but with doubled stearic acid and doubled C60. Felt a little weird for a couple of hours—likely from the stearic acid—but otherwise found no difference.  It’s hard to be definitive as this is a gradual process of topping off stem cells. Still, there will be a maximum effective dosage, for once all mitochondria are fused, that’s the limit, and once all UCP pores are blocked, that’s also the limit.

 

 



#162 lost69

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Posted Yesterday, 01:04 PM

feedback on second round of stemcell renewal (missing TUDCA, taurine, GSH which arrived this week), C60 (carbon60olivoli, i had no time to make my own using SES C60 99,99% purity i bought and best italian organic virgin oil in the world awarad 2017, hope i ll make my own soon).

note i also use GDF11 0.05ng per week, this compound is concentrated in platelets and probably works in some way on stemcells or on platelets activity similar to stemcells.GDF11 lowers BP too (it increases BP only on nicotinamide riboside daily users)

 

this time i added horny goat weed caps 1g the second and third day and i had a bad effect on energy, very very low energy during second and third day and some low energy 4 and 5th day after protocol.it can be coincidence but i will not use this supplement in the future.

i ve used doses of this daily for many months reaching doses of 10g a day and never had effects on energy, only oily skin, hair loss, decrease of fat mass, improved vision but stopped it due to the super oily skin effect and loss of fat mass on cheeks

 

i ve had good stable effects on BP, immunity but not on vision this time.this weekend i ll retry the protocol without horny goat week and will report results

should i make fission before it?i feel nothing during fission after i did 2 rounds of it but instead more energy.improvement on skin and vision is so little during fission that it could be just placebo while it always works on diastolic taking it from 88-80 to 72, systolic is now stable 115-122 anyway

 


Edited by lost69, Yesterday, 01:46 PM.


#163 QuestforLife

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Posted Yesterday, 01:42 PM

I don't know about the stearic acid, but I doubt you're at the maximum effective dose of C60 - in the paper you posted upthread the concentrations they used for stem cell stimulation would take alot more than 5 or 10mg of the stuff. Depending on bioavailability it would be more like 100mg. Of course in the body the distribution is not equal, so you likely to get unintended effects. So you're probably wise to stick to a cautious dose.

#164 Turnbuckle

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Posted Yesterday, 03:59 PM

 

 

should i make fission before it?i feel nothing during fission after i did 2 rounds of it but instead more energy.improvement on skin and vision is so little during fission that it could be just placebo while it always works on diastolic taking it from 88-80 to 72, systolic is now stable 115-122 anyway

 

 

 

I've not found fission to go well with C60.  I'd avoid it altogether for a while if you're trying this SC protocol.



#165 Turnbuckle

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Posted Yesterday, 04:16 PM

I don't know about the stearic acid, but I doubt you're at the maximum effective dose of C60 - in the paper you posted upthread the concentrations they used for stem cell stimulation would take alot more than 5 or 10mg of the stuff. Depending on bioavailability it would be more like 100mg. Of course in the body the distribution is not equal, so you likely to get unintended effects. So you're probably wise to stick to a cautious dose.

 

 

Which paper are you referring to?



#166 QuestforLife

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Posted Yesterday, 05:25 PM

It was this one Turnbuckle

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/26848263/

I think the Baati rats got about 20% bioavailability - have to re read to check and no guarantee it's the same for humans,but this means 5mg dose gives us 1mg in the blood, or 0.2mg/L, or 0.2ug/mL. Best results in the paper were for 50ug/mL. For that you'd need 250mg.

#167 Turnbuckle

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Posted Yesterday, 05:38 PM

It was this one Turnbuckle

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/26848263/

 

 

You can't draw any conclusions about dosage as those researchers used a suspension, thus the efficiency would have been extremely low. 



#168 QuestforLife

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Posted Yesterday, 06:03 PM

Just had another look at the Baati paper.

A single oral dose of 4mg/kg achieved a max concentration in the blood of 0.5ug/mL.

If we use the commonly accepted way of converting from animal to human doses we use the Km metabolic ratio (6 rat/37 human) x 4mg (rat dose) x 80kg (my weight) = 52mg.

But IF we want to acheive the optimal concentrations in the above stem cell study (50ug/mL) we need ten times this, or 520mg.

#169 QuestforLife

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Posted Yesterday, 06:10 PM

Oh, so you think uptake into cells would be greater if carried in by the blood? (Edit: sorry, was having a moment, realise now by 'in suspension' you mean the C60 was not bonded to polyphenols in olive oil!)

Maybe you're right, so we should use the Baati study as our guide, with a ~52mg dose probably as our upper limit.

Edited by QuestforLife, Yesterday, 06:51 PM.


#170 Turnbuckle

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Posted Yesterday, 07:57 PM

Oh, so you think uptake into cells would be greater if carried in by the blood? (Edit: sorry, was having a moment, realise now by 'in suspension' you mean the C60 was not bonded to polyphenols in olive oil!)

Maybe you're right, so we should use the Baati study as our guide, with a ~52mg dose probably as our upper limit.

 

What I meant by being in suspension was that it was not dissolved. Thus most of it was in the form of particles that would be no good for blocking UCP pores. A single C60 molecule has a diameter of .7nm. Typical colloidal particle diameters range up to a max of 1000 nm. One particle of that size could contain a billion C60 molecules. The Baati study doesn't guide us either, as they just chose one dose level. So it gives us no minimum dose for activating stem cells. In fact, they didn't consider that at all.


Edited by Turnbuckle, Yesterday, 08:18 PM.


#171 Heisok

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Posted Yesterday, 10:30 PM

Thanks Turnbuckle, you got me inspired, so I ordered "98 %" Apigenin from Ebay. My plan is to use C8 Mct oil with the Apigenin mixed in via shaking the glass container periodically similar to what I think some did with C60/OO. Then I will either use Coconut oil to make the ointment, or cocoa butter or a more liquid carrier, such as Avocado oil, or some other easily absorbed oil. Maybe even Black Seed oil which I already have, and might have some anti-inflamatory benefits. Do you think the Stearic Acid in the Cocoa Butter might be an issue? Might it be beneficial to use a higher concentration of Apigenin, since I will have 5 grams? I also wonder if trying the protocol using DMSO might be worth a try, even given the issues around DMSO carrying unwanted substances through the skin (If I remember correctly, you have experience using DMSO for a finger or some other injury) ?

 

The main target is a brown 2.54 by 5 Centimeter discoloration of the skin which I have had for several years. It was from an injury to the thin skinned part of my shin. Mild cut, dent and bruising from a strong impact which stayed inflamed and healed slowly. I think that it is possible, that I have skewed my system to Fusion just enough to benefit stem cells. I am also not quite 60 years old. I also plan to rub it on each of my lower legs which have had recurring swelling, and just recently have some varicose veins show up.

 

 

"Use of apigenin (from chamomile) for skin treatment is not new, but there has been some question about the mechanism of its benefits. I’m using a homemade ointment subsequent this stem-cell protocol, and the effects seem very interesting. Applying it to knees and lower back, old pains appear to be substantially reduced, and crosslinked skin becomes more flexible and more youthful. Apigenin is known to drive mitochondria into fission and stimulate stem cell asymmetric proliferation, thus use with this protocol seemed a natural.

 

Procedure: 2 days or more subsequent the fusion protocol, apply to desired areas. I first tried this after a dozen days of fusion spread out over a month, so I expect my stem cell pool was substantially replenished by that point.

 

To prepare an ointment, I magnetically stirred 50 mg apigenin from a capsule into 25ml high oleic acid sunflower oil for several hours, then allowed it to settle and stirred the supernatant into 75 ml melted coconut oil."


Edited by Heisok, Yesterday, 10:31 PM.


#172 Turnbuckle

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Posted Yesterday, 10:59 PM

I suggested topical apigenin only as a way of taking advantage of a stem cell pool expanded by this protocol. Another way to take advantage is with a minute or two exposure with a red LED flashlight. In that case you'd want to allow at least a couple of days to pass subsequent to C60 ingestion, as C60 becomes a pro-oxidant when exposed to light, esp. red light that is deeply penetrating.


Edited by Turnbuckle, Yesterday, 10:59 PM.


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#173 Heisok

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Posted Yesterday, 11:14 PM

Thanks.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: c60, stem cells, mitochondria, fusion, stearic acid, aging, hydroxytyrosol, olive oil, mct oil, proliferation

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