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Intranasal NMN or NR


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#1 TMNMK

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 10:50 AM


Everything is subject to question at this point, not enough data. But let your body and your own personal experience guide you. Fwiw, The 2nd best method I have found thus far is intranasal at ~1g/day (less or more depending on how you feel), somewhere I posted the method, but it is essentially to solubilize NR and separate from insoluble excipient via decantation/filtration. Prepare every day in the morning and keep your filtrate in the nasal sprayer on ice, toss the (now white to off-white) retentate. I can't do this (easily) with NMN as the revgenetics brand that I take has soluble excipients, so I give up and just take that sublingually/orally, which is deeply unfortunate <-- Anthony what do you think about providing NMN with simply microcrystalline cellulose instead of HPMC?


Edited by TMNMK, 16 May 2018 - 11:04 AM.


#2 able

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 02:11 PM

Everything is subject to question at this point, not enough data. But let your body and your own personal experience guide you. Fwiw, The 2nd best method I have found thus far is intranasal at ~1g/day (less or more depending on how you feel), somewhere I posted the method, but it is essentially to solubilize NR and separate from insoluble excipient via decantation/filtration. Prepare every day in the morning and keep your filtrate in the nasal sprayer on ice, toss the (now white to off-white) retentate. I can't do this (easily) with NMN as the revgenetics brand that I take has soluble excipients, so I give up and just take that sublingually/orally, which is deeply unfortunate <-- Anthony what do you think about providing NMN with simply microcrystalline cellulose instead of HPMC?

 

 

Very interesting.  So you feel the intranasal is much better than sublingual?

 

On the NMN - alivebynature sells a powder that is just pure nmn, which is what I take sublingual. Should be simple to make intranasal - I'll go find your method.  Isn't it difficult to get 1g a day with that method?


Edited by able, 16 May 2018 - 02:12 PM.

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#3 stefan_001

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:09 PM

Everything is subject to question at this point, not enough data. But let your body and your own personal experience guide you. Fwiw, The 2nd best method I have found thus far is intranasal at ~1g/day (less or more depending on how you feel), somewhere I posted the method, but it is essentially to solubilize NR and separate from insoluble excipient via decantation/filtration. Prepare every day in the morning and keep your filtrate in the nasal sprayer on ice, toss the (now white to off-white) retentate. I can't do this (easily) with NMN as the revgenetics brand that I take has soluble excipients, so I give up and just take that sublingually/orally, which is deeply unfortunate <-- Anthony what do you think about providing NMN with simply microcrystalline cellulose instead of HPMC?

 

I have been using this method for eye drips like you did as well. I do it 2 days in a row every week. For sure vision improves immediately after the dripping. I will probably start doing it 3 times a week for couple months.Too early to say does the vision get better. As a warning for others considering dont tell people you do this....the only person I told thought I was becoming insane....
 


Edited by stefan_001, 16 May 2018 - 07:11 PM.

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#4 TMNMK

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:32 PM

I have been using this method for eye drips like you did as well. I do it 2 days in a row every week. For sure vision improves immediately after the dripping. I will probably start doing it 3 times a week for couple months.Too early to say does the vision get better. As a warning for others considering dont tell people you do this....the only person I told thought I was becoming insane....
 

 

Great! I'm so glad to hear that, definitely keep us posted! Now if we can find a version of NMN without excipients, or the kind that can be separated as can be done with tru niagen, then I think we'd have the opportunity to do some contrast/comparison, at least anecdotally.

 

EDIT: Ok Able just said that we can get it from alivebynature, so I'll check that out!


Edited by TMNMK, 17 May 2018 - 02:43 PM.


#5 TMNMK

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:41 PM

Very interesting.  So you feel the intranasal is much better than sublingual?

 

On the NMN - alivebynature sells a powder that is just pure nmn, which is what I take sublingual. Should be simple to make intranasal - I'll go find your method.  Isn't it difficult to get 1g a day with that method?

 

Yeah I do, and I'd love to hear others' experiences with that as well so if you give it a run definitely let us know. For me, I'm rather certain it is significantly better. It's not difficult for me to get 1g/day but I also don't interface visually with people often during the day, and thus am not concerned about attracting unwanted attention. I tend to have about 15ml of fluid and do 2-3 squirts every 15 minutes or so (I'm not at all precise about it though, that's just a guess, could be as little as once every 1/2 hour or so even). I'm very curious if you give it a go how you feel about that method!

 

Ok, very interesting, I didn't know that alivebynature sold simply pure NMN, I may order some of that and try it. Thanks for the tip!



#6 able

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:48 AM

 

 

Beyond the possibility of better absorption compared to sublingual, I believe that there is a good reason that TNMNK is having good results with the nasal method. They are taking many small doses spread throughout the day. This allows the system to absorb the amount, and be ready so-to-speak for another dose. It might be recreated taking NMN/NR in very small doses, maybe 20 mg ,sublingually spread out through the day.

 

 

 

I second that conclusion.

 

I have had even better results the last 2 weeks since going from 4 to 8 (smaller) doses a day sublingual.

 

Am excited to switch to TNMNK intranasal method next week.


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#7 TMNMK

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 11:57 AM

And I'm excited to hear your results and thoughts! To save anyone who is interested in this route of administration trouble digging through old threads, here it is again:

 

 

Solubilized intranasal solution as follows (for NR but may work for NMN as well):
 
1. Buy a nasal sprayer such as https://www.amazon.c...L70_&dpSrc=srch
 
2. Every day in the morning open up 10 of the gelcaps (or whatever you are comfortable with), pour the contents in a small cup (plastic, clear solo works great).
 
3. Dribble about 15ml of cold water over the powder
 
4. Swirl and dissolve well. The microcrystalline cellulose should remain mostly undissolved as a white solid that settles on standing under a brownish yellow liquid (be sure the pills that you use, such as Tru Niagen and I think HPN's gelcap-based version have only microcrystalline cellulose as excipient as things like (hydroxypropyl)methyl cellulose and fructooligosaccharides are water soluble).
 
5. Allow to settle and decant the liquid through a fluted, wetted coffee filter. Squeeze the excipient with a downward motion between thumb and forefinger in the filter paper without breaking the filter paper as microcrystalline cellulose absorbs much water and along with it, much NR.
 
6. Put the liquid into the nasal sprayer. I used to use the white thing in this photo to suck it up and then put it into the nasal sprayer: https://www.cvs.com/...50428251591.jpg
 
7. Shoot two to three squirts up both nostrils every 15-20 minutes or so!
 
Keep that chilled! You cannot let that sit around at room temperature all day. Buried in a deep cup of ice is fine. It goes without saying, but use distilled water.
 
Note: One could get more sophisticated with this but NR is so water soluble that I don't think it's necessary. To confirm you can dribble a little of water, swirl for some time, decant (keeping most of the microcrystalline cellulose in the cup), then dribble a few more drops, swirl, decant, etc. The first extraction is amber and subsequent extractions become more clear. Also, depending on your cup of choice, you tilt the cup and then allow to settle, such that a broad surface area of microcrystalline cellulose sticks to the edge of the cup after settling, then as you rotate the cup 180 degrees more of it will remain stuck on the edge of the cup such that when you decant you get less of the microcrystalline cellulose in the filter paper. Also note, to flute a coffee filter it is essentially the same procedure as fluting lab filter paper, but because coffee filters are so much thinner, the goal is not necessarily the same. Simply hold all of the flutes together in one clump - the goal here being to create a cone, this won't impact the ability of the water to go through the cone no matter how much microcrystalline cellulose winds up in the filter paper. I just do this by hand because I'm lazy but you can of course use a funnel and then not worry about fluting at all, just fold it over to make a cone inside the funnel. And don't forget to wet the filter paper with dH2O first or it will absorb some of your extract! After a couple of iterations of this, I tend to dribble a little more water and then just pour all of the excipient into the filter paper and then squeeze to get the last drops out (being careful not to tear the filter paper).
 
All of the above is for NR.
 
For NMN it appears that AliveByNature's NMN has calcium carbonate (as a pH buffer most likely - interesting, is NMN sensitive to pH change?) and rice flour as excipient. That should be fine sublingual and may even be ok for preparing an intranasal solution as calcium carbonate has low solubility in neutral distilled water. Rice flour on the other hand emulsifies, so I'm not sure about how that will work, may require more resourceful separation than simply allowing the solution to settle for a minute or two as we can do with the NR.
 
I'm not going to have a chance to try NMN intranasal for a few months, but if I get to it before anyone else I'll let you all know how that goes.
 

 


Edited by TMNMK, 18 May 2018 - 12:08 PM.

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#8 able

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:27 PM

 

And I'm excited to hear your results and thoughts! To save anyone who is interested in this route of administration trouble digging through old threads, here it is again:

 

 

Solubilized intranasal solution as follows (for NR but may work for NMN as well):
 
1. Buy a nasal sprayer such as https://www.amazon.c...L70_&dpSrc=srch
 
2. Every day in the morning open up 10 of the gelcaps (or whatever you are comfortable with), pour the contents in a small cup (plastic, clear solo works great).
 
3. Dribble about 15ml of cold water over the powder
 
4. Swirl and dissolve well. The microcrystalline cellulose should remain mostly undissolved as a white solid that settles on standing under a brownish yellow liquid (be sure the pills that you use, such as Tru Niagen and I think HPN's gelcap-based version have only microcrystalline cellulose as excipient as things like (hydroxypropyl)methyl cellulose and fructooligosaccharides are water soluble).
 
5. Allow to settle and decant the liquid through a fluted, wetted coffee filter. Squeeze the excipient with a downward motion between thumb and forefinger in the filter paper without breaking the filter paper as microcrystalline cellulose absorbs much water and along with it, much NR.
 
6. Put the liquid into the nasal sprayer. I used to use the white thing in this photo to suck it up and then put it into the nasal sprayer: https://www.cvs.com/...50428251591.jpg
 
7. Shoot two to three squirts up both nostrils every 15-20 minutes or so!
 
Keep that chilled! You cannot let that sit around at room temperature all day. Buried in a deep cup of ice is fine. It goes without saying, but use distilled water.
 
Note: One could get more sophisticated with this but NR is so water soluble that I don't think it's necessary. To confirm you can dribble a little of water, swirl for some time, decant (keeping most of the microcrystalline cellulose in the cup), then dribble a few more drops, swirl, decant, etc. The first extraction is amber and subsequent extractions become more clear. Also, depending on your cup of choice, you tilt the cup and then allow to settle, such that a broad surface area of microcrystalline cellulose sticks to the edge of the cup after settling, then as you rotate the cup 180 degrees more of it will remain stuck on the edge of the cup such that when you decant you get less of the microcrystalline cellulose in the filter paper. Also note, to flute a coffee filter it is essentially the same procedure as fluting lab filter paper, but because coffee filters are so much thinner, the goal is not necessarily the same. Simply hold all of the flutes together in one clump - the goal here being to create a cone, this won't impact the ability of the water to go through the cone no matter how much microcrystalline cellulose winds up in the filter paper. I just do this by hand because I'm lazy but you can of course use a funnel and then not worry about fluting at all, just fold it over to make a cone inside the funnel. And don't forget to wet the filter paper with dH2O first or it will absorb some of your extract! After a couple of iterations of this, I tend to dribble a little more water and then just pour all of the excipient into the filter paper and then squeeze to get the last drops out (being careful not to tear the filter paper).
 
All of the above is for NR.
 
For NMN it appears that AliveByNature's NMN has calcium carbonate (as a pH buffer most likely - interesting, is NMN sensitive to pH change?) and rice flour as excipient. That should be fine sublingual and may even be ok for preparing an intranasal solution as calcium carbonate has low solubility in neutral distilled water. Rice flour on the other hand emulsifies, so I'm not sure about how that will work, may require more resourceful separation than simply allowing the solution to settle for a minute or two as we can do with the NR.
 
I'm not going to have a chance to try NMN intranasal for a few months, but if I get to it before anyone else I'll let you all know how that goes.
 

 

 

 

Thanks.  I decided not to wait and will start on this tomorrow.

 

Using the alivebynature NMN powder.  Is 99% NMN with nothing else added.  

 

The powder dissolves instantly in water.  The mice studies say NMN in water is still good after a week, so no need to ice I think.  

 

Think I'll try a snoot every 1/2 or so, depending on what I am doing, ofc.  


Edited by able, 18 May 2018 - 02:29 PM.

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#9 stefan_001

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 04:42 PM

Thanks. I decided not to wait and will start on this tomorrow.

Using the alivebynature NMN powder. Is 99% NMN with nothing else added.

The powder dissolves instantly in water. The mice studies say NMN in water is still good after a week, so no need to ice I think.

Think I'll try a snoot every 1/2 or so, depending on what I am doing, ofc.

@able when you compare the capsule size of the NMN from ABN with a Niagen capsule is there a size difference?

Edited by stefan_001, 18 May 2018 - 04:43 PM.

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#10 able

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 05:42 PM

@able when you compare the capsule size of the NMN from ABN with a Niagen capsule is there a size difference?

 

I haven't compared side by side, but never noticed a difference.  I don't know, but believe they all use the same capsule size that holds approximately 450-500 mg (depending on density), and all have a lot more filler than most people realize.

 

I've always wondered why they don't use a smaller capsule size with less filler.  Maybe better flow, so easier for machines to handle?  


Edited by able, 18 May 2018 - 05:45 PM.


#11 Supierce

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 05:59 PM

I've compared them and ABN's NMN capsules are bigger than Niagen's NR capsules.



#12 able

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 06:47 PM

I've compared them and ABN's NMN capsules are bigger than Niagen's NR capsules.

 

Which brand you speaking of?



#13 Supierce

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 07:11 PM

Which brand you speaking of?

AliveByNature for the NMN, HPN for the NR.



#14 stefan_001

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 07:34 PM

I haven't compared side by side, but never noticed a difference.  I don't know, but believe they all use the same capsule size that holds approximately 450-500 mg (depending on density), and all have a lot more filler than most people realize.

 

I've always wondered why they don't use a smaller capsule size with less filler.  Maybe better flow, so easier for machines to handle?  

 

and @suprierce thanks

 

So there is at least the same amount of filler. Could be its needed for the filling machines. So then the jars are the only option but those are sold out.

 

They used to copy the articles I wrote on my blog and put those on their website so that put significant questions marks over them from my perspective in terms of their knowledge. With multiple testing certificates the NMN product looks more legit however.

 

It makes me wonder what trick SInclair and co will pull from the sleeve when they try to monetize their research as apparently parties can get it made. Possibly a patented cheaper production method?



#15 docmaas

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 08:44 AM

I'm trying ABN nmn nasal.  Today Was my first day and I notice that I have white crust around my nostrils.  I'm pretty sure this is an indication that at least some of the nmn is simply not being absorbed.  I mixed it in boiled water and am using a "snoot" sprayer.  Anyone else doing this?  Any suggestions?

 

Mike



#16 Oakman

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 02:39 PM

Just a question - has anyone mentioned or have you thought of using ABN's new product via nasal delivery?

 

PURE NAD+ Powder – 12 Grams Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide

Not being a precursor, seems like that would be THE direct route to increased NAD+, because it is NAD+

 



#17 docmaas

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 03:52 PM

Just a question - has anyone mentioned or have you thought of using ABN's new product via nasal delivery?

 

PURE NAD+ Powder – 12 Grams Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide

Not being a precursor, seems like that would be THE direct route to increased NAD+, because it is NAD+

 

I started it yesterday.  I mixed it with plain h2o and am using a snoot bottle for delivery.  Last night I found a lot of white powder, probably nmn, in my nostril hair.  Not sure if I'm doing something wrong or not.  After spraying some runs down my throat.  

 

I did this because I wanted the brain connection but right now I'm beginning to think sublingual or subcutaneous might be better.

 

Mike



#18 Oakman

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 04:09 PM

I started it yesterday.  I mixed it with plain h2o and am using a snoot bottle for delivery.  Last night I found a lot of white powder, probably nmn, in my nostril hair.  Not sure if I'm doing something wrong or not.  After spraying some runs down my throat.  

 

I did this because I wanted the brain connection but right now I'm beginning to think sublingual or subcutaneous might be better.

 

Mike

 

Think you are mis-understanding. This is a new product, not yet sold, but listed on their website. NOT NMN, NOT NR, but pure NAD+ ... so NOT a precursor, but actual NAD+. Might be interesting as a nasal.



#19 docmaas

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 11:47 PM

Yep missed that little detail.  I'm using the 12g "pure" nmn.

 

Mike



#20 Phoebus

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 04:28 PM

Just a question - has anyone mentioned or have you thought of using ABN's new product via nasal delivery?

 

PURE NAD+ Powder – 12 Grams Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide

Not being a precursor, seems like that would be THE direct route to increased NAD+, because it is NAD+

 

 

wow!

 

been waiting for someone to sell this and here it is! 

 

great news. 

 

also, is anyone else still doing the intranasal application? still working well for you? 



#21 TMNMK

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 06:38 PM

I do, I'll let you know in five or ten years if it works and this forum is still around :)


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#22 TMNMK

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 06:44 PM

I'm trying ABN nmn nasal.  Today Was my first day and I notice that I have white crust around my nostrils.  I'm pretty sure this is an indication that at least some of the nmn is simply not being absorbed.  I mixed it in boiled water and am using a "snoot" sprayer.  Anyone else doing this?  Any suggestions?

 

Mike

 

I do NR intranasal, I have tried NMN intranasal as well. I recommend against warming the water above rt to get it to dissolve, just swirl a bit instead it should dissolve rapidly. Wine glass works well for swirling btw. I have never had white stuff on my nostrils, but I don't saturate the solution either.



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#23 Oakman

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 07:51 PM

wow!

 

been waiting for someone to sell this and here it is! 

 

great news. 

 

also, is anyone else still doing the intranasal application? still working well for you? 

 

Hopefully, but there is doubt (controversy) that NAD itself can cross cellular membranes. 

Like everything else discussed here, it's a crap shoot until we get more answers than questions.

Precursors like NR & MNM at least (supposedly) can cross cellular membranes.



#24 KBAnthis

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 04:48 AM

Well how has everyones experience with intranasal NAD+ been? I was considering trying it as it fascinates me. 



#25 hamishm00

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 10:33 AM

AFAIK, there is no evidence showing that exogenous Nad+ can enter the cell, notwithstanding the delivery method (e.g. sublingual, intranasal or IV). Precursors NMN and NR are still the best bet.

Also none suggesting sublingual NMN is absorbed sublingually or intranasal, although intranasal potentially might be your best bet as the molecular makeup of NMN doesn't lend itself to sublingual absorption.

 

I prepared a nasal solution of "Pure NMN" from AlivebyNature and used it - it hurt (burned) like hell and I entirely lost my sense of smell for days. Won't be doing that again.


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#26 orion22

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 11:00 AM

Well how has everyones experience with intranasal NAD+ been? I was considering trying it as it fascinates me. 

i did and i think it works but this is the last think you want to do the pain is to much i read you feel pain when you take it on iv fast i didn t try that but i can tell you il rather get hit in the face 2 times than spray 2 times in my nose nad+

try iontophoresis its insanely efective  all you need is a rechargable 9v battery buy serringe and cut in 2 stick you re finger in nad+all day with the 9v conected on the pointin side of the seringe and the other connected at to ring that goes on you re finger put salt solution on ring thought the day if you use aluminium foil you will burn you will skin very badly + goes in the nad solution - goes to other side 

edit when i spray nmn in nose i see lots of powder left the next day and i can feel it but not when i spray nad but the pain its to much even if you can withstand pain you just make you re days a living hell 


Edited by orion22, 10 June 2019 - 11:03 AM.

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#27 able

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 10:53 PM

I don't know about NMN spray, but maybe you guys are mixing it too strong?

 

I have been taking the NAD+ spray from Alivebynature and really liking it.   There is no burning or any unpleasant feeling at all.  I am taking it instead of the NAD+ powder more and more, as it clears my head better.  Pretty good cost savings too, as you don't need nearly as much.

 

They actually show quite a bit of research on the product page that shows intranasal is very effective for brain disorders (in mice).  

 

Also, some research showing NAD does enter at least some tissues  intact. cut and past below:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and Huntington’s diseases, frontotemporal dementia or amyotrophic lateral sclerosis all belong to the group of protein misfolding neurodegenerative diseases, which induce neuronal death by NAD+ starvation.

 
Loss of blood flow due to traumatic brain injury or stroke also results in NAD+ starvation and neuronal death.
 
 
 
Increasing evidence has supported the hypothesis that PARP-1 induces cell death by depleting intracellular NAD+. We observed that intranasal NAD+ delivery significantly increased NAD+ contents in the brains.
 
 
Intranasal delivery with 10 mg / kg NAD+ at 2 hours after ischemic onset profoundly decreased infarct
 
The NAD+ administration also significantly attenuated ischemia-induced neurological deficits.
 
NAD+ metabolism is a new target for treating brain ischemia
 
NAD+ administration may be a novel strategy for decreasing brain damage in cerebral ischemia and possibly other PARP-1-associated neurological diseases.
 
Our results provide the first in vivo evidence that NAD+ administration can profoundly decrease brain damage
 
It is noteworthy that NAD+ can reduce infarct formation by up to 86 % even when administered at 2 hrs after ischemic onset.
 
the protective effect of NAD+ could be one of the most profound effects ever reported.
 
intranasal administration with nicotinamide at 10 mg / kg can not affect ischemic brain damage, in contrast to the profound protective effects of 10 mg / kg NAD+.
 
 
The present study demonstrates that intranasally-administered NAD+ increases hippocampal NAD+ levels and reduces TBI-induced neuronal death in the hippocampus.
 
Intraperitoneal injection of the same NAD+ concentration that we used for intranasal administration showed no neuroprotective effects on TBI-induced neuronal death.
 
Compared with NAD+-treated rats, nicotinamide treatment showed no protective effects against TBI-induced neuronal death
 
 
We show that abnormal autophagy activation and neuronal demise is due to severe, neuron-specific, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) depletion.
 
Toxic prion protein-exposed neuronal cells exhibit dramatic reductions of intracellular NAD+ followed by decreased ATP production, and are completely rescued by treatment with NAD+
 
Intranasal NAD+ treatment of prion-infected sick mice significantly improves activity and delays motor impairment.
 
Our data demonstrate for the first time that a failure of NAD+ metabolism is the cause of neuronal ailing. Neuronal death can be rescued in vitro and in vivo by NAD+ replenishment.
 
Misfolded amyloidogenic protein can induce neuronal death by genuine NAD+ starvation and that ailing neurons can be completely rescued by NAD+ treatment
 
Our study shows that neuronal death induced by NAD+ depletion is reversible and that NAD+ replenishment mitigates neurodegeneration
 
We propose the development of NAD+ replenishment strategies for neuroprotection in prion diseases such as Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and Huntington’s diseases, frontotemporal dementia or amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.

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