25 replies to this topic

[sloane]

Hi,

Never really taken any supplements before apart from a multi-vitamin, alot of info here and it's a bit overwhelming. Is there a list anywhere of the basic vitamins/supplements I should be taking? I'm not looking to go overboard but want to start on the right track. TIA, I'm 22yo and have a pretty short attention span.

[scottl]

Are you in good health? Do you work out?

Goals for taking supps? Just general health?

M/F?

[sloane]

In good health, just got a hernia at the moment stop me exercising as I would like, basically all I can do is 10 minutes on an exercise bike (getting Operation in June) and take some brisk walks. My general diet is quite good.
I'm a male uni student and just want to take them for general health and to keep me sharper for longer in classes etc.

[Shepard]

Yeah, if I were to add a couple additional (besides what da sense said) as basic "health" supplements, I would add astaxanthin and extra Vitamin C.

[scottl]

Well I would start by making sure you eat different colored fruits and berries regularly e.g. blueberries, cherries, etc as well as carrots, broccoli, spinach, etc.

Drink a lot e.g. say 1/2 gallon of water a day (well less if you're 5').

Eat fatty fish e.g. salmon say at least twice a week.

Eat nuts e.g. almonds, walnuts, etc.

Then take the ADAM (with food). add an extra 500 mg vit c one of twice more (at other times then the ADAM).

drink green tea if you like it.

And dang...I just noticed that ADAM contains:

Saw Palmetto Extract (Berries) (Serenoa repens(min. 45% Fatty Acids) 160 mg

which is fine at my age (old) but I"m not sure about for a 22 year old. So let me revise this when I can.

Oh and the salmon takes care of the omega 3s and the astaxanthin

[Shepard]

Oh and the salmon takes care of the omega 3s and the astaxanthin

Yeah, I guess it just depends how much of each you want, and the quality of salmon available.

[salesman]

I would like to add one thing and that is. If you want to improve your brain function you must get the omega 6 and 9's and you can get those from krill oil , flax oil, or evening primose oil. The omega 6 and 9's remove toxic metals from your brain. Primarily the one your looking to get rid of is aluminum because its in the air, as well as added in the tap water. So if you try and omit the tap water that would also help.

[zoolander]

Another alternative to ADAM from NOW foods is Source Naturals LIFE FORCE multi.

In regards to Saw Palmetto, I am 35 and use a saw palmetto supplement. Whilst there are studies showing the use of saw palmetto for the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia a recent phase III clinical trial study in the New England Journal of Medicine shows no effect

Saw palmetto for benign prostatic hyperplasia.

Bent S, Kane C, Shinohara K, Neuhaus J, Hudes ES, Goldberg H, Avins AL.

Osher Center for Integrative Medicine, Department of Medicine, University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, USA. bent@itsa.ucsf.edu

BACKGROUND: Saw palmetto is used by over 2 million men in the United States for the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia and is commonly recommended as an alternative to drugs approved by the Food and Drug Administration. METHODS: In this double-blind trial, we randomly assigned 225 men over the age of 49 years who had moderate-to-severe symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia to one year of treatment with saw palmetto extract (160 mg twice a day) or placebo. The primary outcome measures were changes in the scores on the American Urological Association Symptom Index (AUASI) and the maximal urinary flow rate. Secondary outcome measures included changes in prostate size, residual urinary volume after voiding, quality of life, laboratory values, and the rate of reported adverse effects. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between the saw palmetto and placebo groups in the change in AUASI scores (mean difference, 0.04 point; 95 percent confidence interval, -0.93 to 1.01), maximal urinary flow rate (mean difference, 0.43 ml per minute; 95 percent confidence interval, -0.52 to 1.38), prostate size, residual volume after voiding, quality of life, or serum prostate-specific antigen levels during the one-year study. The incidence of side effects was similar in the two groups. CONCLUSIONS: In this study, saw palmetto did not improve symptoms or objective measures of benign prostatic hyperplasia. (ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT00037154.). Copyright 2006 Massachusetts Medical Society.

Publication Types:

    * Clinical Trial, Phase III
    * Randomized Controlled Trial


PMID: 16467543 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I use saw palmetto to prevent androgenic alopecia. Yes, I do not want to go bald.

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial to determine the effectiveness of botanically derived inhibitors of 5-alpha-reductase in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia.

Prager N, Bickett K, French N, Marcovici G.

Clinical Research and Development Network, Aurora, CO, USA.

BACKGROUND: Androgenetic alopecia (AGA) is characterized by the structural miniaturization of androgen-sensitive hair follicles in susceptible individuals and is anatomically defined within a given pattern of the scalp. Biochemically, one contributing factor of this disorder is the conversion of testosterone (T) to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) via the enzyme 5-alpha reductase (5AR). This metabolism is also key to the onset and progression of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). Furthermore, AGA has also been shown to be responsive to drugs and agents used to treat BPH. Of note, certain botanical compounds have previously demonstrated efficacy against BPH. Here, we report the first example of a placebo-controlled, double-blind study undertaken in order to examine the benefit of these botanical substances in the treatment of AGA. OBJECTIVES: The goal of this study was to test botanically derived 5AR inhibitors, specifically the liposterolic extract of Serenoa repens (LSESr) and beta-sitosterol, in the treatment of AGA. Subjects: Included in this study were males between the ages of 23 and 64 years of age, in good health, with mild to moderate AGA. RESULTS: The results of this pilot study showed a highly positive response to treatment. The blinded investigative staff assessment report showed that 60% of (6/10) study subjects dosed with the active study formulation were rated as improved at the final visit. CONCLUSIONS: This study establishes the effectiveness of naturally occurring 5AR inhibitors against AGA for the first time, and justifies the expansion to larger trials.

Publication Types:

    * Clinical Trial
    * Randomized Controlled Trial


PMID: 12006122 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I have to admit though that the one study that measures saw palmetto with alopecia (as shown above) reports in the results that "The blinded investigative staff assessment report showed that 60% of (6/10) study subjects dosed with the active study formulation were rated as improved at the final visit". What do they mean as rated? I haven't got time at the moment to read the full study but will look into it.

I have made a preliminary decision though by joing the dots, so to speak. There are studies that show that the convesion of testoserone to DHT via 5-alpha reductase as being a contributing factor which results in androgenic alopecia. There are also studies that show that saw palmetto is an effective inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase. This process of reasoning was most likely how they came up with the justifacation for the pilot study above.

What are peoples thoughts on using saw palmetto to prevent male pattern baldness.

Scottl, do you think that 35 is too young to be using saw palmetto?

[scottl]

I would like to add one thing and that is. If you want to improve your brain function you must get the omega 6 and 9's and you can get those from krill oil , flax oil, or evening primose oil. The omega 6 and 9's remove toxic metals from your brain. Primarily the one your looking to get rid of is aluminum because its in the air, as well as added in the tap water. So if you try and omit the tap water that would also help.

Huh? I think you mean omega 3.

[scottl]

Oh and the salmon takes care of the omega 3s and the astaxanthin

Yeah, I guess it just depends how much of each you want, and the quality of salmon available.

I suspect you are much more enamored of astaxanthin then I. I'm sure it does lots of wonderful things, but a foundational supp on the order of vit c, e, some Bs?

[scottl]

Zololander,

1. Life Force multi has iron, bioperine (sorry I still don't want it in my multi) and other things that in no way would I recommend to a 22 year old.

2. I'd wonder if that article is another "Opales special" given the amount of previous evidence on the topic. It is also one thing saying there is no evidence saying something is true. It is another thing entirely saying you're sure something is not true.

I do not know enough to say that amount of saw palmetto is apropriate in someone under say 30.

[scottl]

"Scottl, do you think that 35 is too young to be using saw palmetto? "

That's probably OK, though I"m uncertain how much effect it will have for that purpose.

[kenj]

I'm considering upping my current dose of Saw Palmetto (with LEF's Super Saw Palmetto/Nettle Root Formula with Beta-Sitosterol) for a number of reasons, - mostly for prostate health and preventing premature hair loss together with Grape Seed Extract, plant sterols, isoflavones and EFA's.
I'd be interestet in knowing if/why one should NOT supplement with Saw Palmetto - regardless of age?? I've used it for 5 years now (on and off) with no ill effects together with my other supps.
Also in this regard I'm cutting down on protein (my source is mainly poultry and fish, beans and nuts, veggies and a soy protein shake every other day -- and I do work out) while increasing my complex/fibrous carb intake.

[zoolander]

You can get the Life Force Multi without iron as well. Yes, I forgot that it had bioperine in it.

What others things in it wouldn't you recommend to a 22 year old

[scottl]

You can get the Life Force Multi without iron as well. Yes, I forgot that it had bioperine in it.

What others things in it wouldn't you recommend to a 22 year old

I thought that was the one with siberian ginseng, and lots of other herbs in it, but I guess not.

So I guess the only other questionable thing is 5000 IU preformed vit a which is +/- this relates to risk of large doses of vit a and fractures. 5000 iu alone might be OK, be diet probably contains some. Again +/- (see morelife.yahoo.com and perhaps here).

Maybe I"m getting old, or opales is getting to me, but what I'll recommend to a well 20 year old is much more conservative then a 30 or 40 year old. Though I have recommended agressive regiments to 20somethings e.g. one who got sick constantly and had medical issues.

[sentrysnipe]

zoolander: take beta-sitosterol instead (to prevent alopecia).

scottl: is there anything wrong taking saw palmetto (any dosage) at a young age?

[scottl]

zoolander: take beta-sitosterol instead (to prevent alopecia).

scottl: is there anything wrong taking saw palmetto (any dosage) at a young age?

I do not know and that is the problem. More if/when I find out.

[sentrysnipe]

well it inhibits 5-alpha-reductase... dht and testosterone and baldness and puberty may be brought up

[Shepard]

I thought saw palmetto encouraged aromatose, leading to more estradiol. Then there is the lack of DHT, of course.

EDIT: Changed my wording...slightly confusing.

Edited by shepard, 14 April 2006 - 02:37 PM.

[sloane]

Got some green tea, love it my parents told me I had some when I was younger and hated it.

I've ordered Vitamin C, is the powdered stuff better? 500mg twice daily with meals ok?
I'll start on the NOW multivitamin, change if I can find anything better for younger users.

Is this a good fish oil product, fish oil, I'm looking at krill oil as well.
What about probiotics. I take a muiller probiotic drink daily but I wouldn't be surprised if the probiotic benefits of these are just a marketing gimmick.
Need to get more protein in my diet, I don't really eat meats (don't like the taste) other than chicken but I'm fine with fish. Protein drinks worth looking at/if so which.

I drink close to a gallon of tap water a day haven't been using a filter though, guess I'll get one sharpish.

[Shepard]

Any vitamin C will pretty much be fine. My favorite is the Now Sustained Release Ascorbic Acid (1g).

That cod liver oil is fine, just watch your A & D levels. You'll find another probiotic thread in this forum. I use Theralac, and then take certain other supplements/foods that lead to healthy bacteria levels.

If you search way back you'll find a thread of whey protein powders that I started. These days the only protein powder I use daily is a hemp powder. Sometimes I use some egg protein.

[scottl]

"These days the only protein powder I use daily is a hemp powder."

YUk. What do you add to make it palatable?

[Shepard]

My palate is dead. Take maca powder straight for a while and anything tastes great. But, I generally don't take it by itself, it's usually added to oatmeal/yogurt.

[syr_]

Got some green tea, love it my parents told me I had some when I was younger and hated it.

I've ordered Vitamin C, is the powdered stuff better? 500mg twice daily with meals ok?
I'll start on the NOW multivitamin, change if I can find anything better for younger users.

Is this a good fish oil product, fish oil, I'm looking at krill oil as well.
What about probiotics. I take a muiller probiotic drink daily but I wouldn't be surprised if the probiotic benefits of these are just a marketing gimmick.
Need to get more protein in my diet, I don't really eat meats (don't like the taste) other than chicken but I'm fine with fish. Protein drinks worth looking at/if so which.

I drink close to a gallon of tap water a day haven't been using a filter though, guess I'll get one sharpish.

NOW ADAM is good, easy to take and cheap. Its definitely a good choice for your goals (I think your budget is low). i dont really think that a low dose of saw palmetto in the range of 160mg would have a serious impact on your hormonal levels unless you have previous conditions.

I advocate an intake of 2-3g of vit C a day, divided in 3-4 doses. ADAM has 350mg, so if u are taking 500mg caps u should take 4-5 caps. Powdered is not better, but one with bioflavonoids is. I like Natrol Quercetin+C (plain ascorbic acid) and Solgar Ester-C Plus (ester-c and bioflavonoids).

The only other thing that i would add to it is Magnesium: 200-400mg more (ADAM has 100).

If you eat a lot of fish, particularly salmon and small fishes which are rich in omega-3 u dont need a supplement for it.