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5 years of anhedonic hell;help me end the torment

anhedonia depression

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#1 link11

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 09:07 PM


The title says it all. This condition is pure hell for me.

 

Having aspergers and OCD makes this especially undesirable. Though I can't actively obsess with the hobbies I once enjoyed, my mind is obsessed with the idea of regaining the ability to indulge in them once more. This promotes much anger and hostility.

 

I made a similar post a little over a year ago, and, sad to say, I've literally gotten nowhere in my endeavors to be free from this pleasure-less state. It's not just pleasure though, I also have the debilitating emotional numbness so often experienced as an unwanted accessory of this bizarre condition.

 

Anyway, having tried countless supplements like l tyrosine,black seed oil, ginseng,omega 3,CDP choline,uridine,inositol, COQ10,TMG,sarcosine,shilajit,berberine and many more, I have come to the conclusion they are likely no good.

 

The only relief I got was from discontinuing amitriptyline.  This seemed to give me a 60-70% remission rate for a week where I could somewhat enjoy and feel emotions when watching TV shows. It quickly dissipated though and I was back to my anhedonic baseline. I would give anything to get that effect back. Someone mentioned it was something to do with a rebound effect of 5ht2c receptors but i'm not sure.

 

I should mention that prozac was the SSRI responsible for my anhedonia. I wish it was possible to reverse the effects of that despicable med. I took shilajit and berberine in an effort to do so, but like most things that was unsuccessful. I also tried cyproheptadine for a while to no avail.

 

I am at a loss really with what to do now. Maybe I could try a MAOI but they don't seem to work particularly well for anhedonia, like most meds. I did want agomelatine but can't get it prescribed easily in the UK. Too costly to buy monthly online.

 

 

Currently I am on 2mg LDN which is doing nothing after almost 2 months. Increased to 4mg but was too high a dose for me.

 

If I could i'd get OFC rTMS but all they seem to offer in the UK is the DLPFC regions which is no good for anhedonia, as I have read you need to inhibit the anti reward pathways in the brain.

 

I am desperate to be free of this and regain my life. I am 24 now and have already lost 5 years. It is beyond unfair.

 

Any help you could give would really be appreciated, as I am at a loss now

 

Thanks

 



#2 jack black

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 03:40 PM

have you searched for post SSRI syndrome?

i'm sure there are some old posts. this forum is not as active as it used to.


Edited by jack black, 23 July 2018 - 04:00 PM.


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#3 link11

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 04:11 PM

Yes, I have read through many old threads on this forum and others over the past few years. That was where I got the idea to try berberine and shilajit in order to reverse prozacs effects on the 5ht1a receptor, whilst also decreasing serotonin. Some also recommend low dose antipsychotics but I am a bit weary of that one.

 

I wonder what happened to the previous posters and anhedonia sufferers? They are probably cured now and do not wish to waste their time explaining how they went about it. That or they have sadly passed away.

 

Anyway out of desperation really I have ordered some palmitoylethanolamide, SAM E, allicin and MSM to try next. I may try gingko biloba as that was also recommended to reverse SSRI apathy/anhedonia by someone.

 

It is a shame most do not hang around to share how they achieved remission, as they must surely recover?



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#4 MichaelTheAnhedonic

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 06:19 PM

I didn't achieved remission but most helpful drug in my case was methylphenidate. But it's a stimulant, so it's risky. Of course it's just temporary help. What I want to try is NSI-189 and if it doesn't work - pramipexole.



#5 link11

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 07:35 PM

Sorry to hear you haven't achieved remission Michael.  The only stimulant i've tried is vyvanse which just makes me more social. I didn't try NSI 189 for long enough because it gave me some nerve pain.

 

Not tried prami yet. Let me know how you get on if you decide to give it a go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#6 Deaden

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 02:00 AM

NSI-189 has never cured anyone long term and is russian roulette on whether it's going to work or not. Pramipexole... I remember reading a year ago multiple testimonies on how they ended up feeling worse after some time on the drug or quitting it, then there is Jaiho who was claming this drug doesn't work unlike other psychiatric drugs, "doesn't poop out", and tried it recently. Guess what, he's already off of it. Personally, I suffered two years from anhedonia and severe memory issues, and I am much much better now. I took some time to come back here and help by giving advice, addressing concerns, but no... all people care about on longecity is what they can get prescribed to get a cure for their "biological disorder". Would have suffered way less if I didn't think for so long I was fu**ed. No wonder longecity is dead, became reserved for all the people that still believe they have no control on their symptoms except taking drugs which are obviously not reliable options in the long term. I could find and link like 50 different natural recovery testimonies from anhedonia and apathy specifically, already have 30 saved... am kind of unmotivated to keep trying to help the kind of people lurking in this forum tho.


Edited by Deaden, 25 July 2018 - 02:29 AM.

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#7 CWF1986

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 07:25 AM

^

 

I've always been one for looking at medications as tools to help relieve a condition.  I've found that medications drastically improve my ability to do thing like meditate, regularly exercise and eat better, improve my ability to frame challenges is a positive light and it way that actually helps me to improve my situation, and to forgive myself and others and keep the learning lessons so I can move on for just a few examples.  

 

So for me medications don't cure my issues, but it sure wouldn't be possible to put in the work that does improve my life without them.

 

I'd love to see even just a couple of the links you have whether they involve supps or not if you'd be so kind and patient.  

 

 



#8 link11

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 10:23 AM

NSI-189 has never cured anyone long term and is russian roulette on whether it's going to work or not. Pramipexole... I remember reading a year ago multiple testimonies on how they ended up feeling worse after some time on the drug or quitting it, then there is Jaiho who was claming this drug doesn't work unlike other psychiatric drugs, "doesn't poop out", and tried it recently. Guess what, he's already off of it. Personally, I suffered two years from anhedonia and severe memory issues, and I am much much better now. I took some time to come back here and help by giving advice, addressing concerns, but no... all people care about on longecity is what they can get prescribed to get a cure for their "biological disorder". Would have suffered way less if I didn't think for so long I was fu**ed. No wonder longecity is dead, became reserved for all the people that still believe they have no control on their symptoms except taking drugs which are obviously not reliable options in the long term. I could find and link like 50 different natural recovery testimonies from anhedonia and apathy specifically, already have 30 saved... am kind of unmotivated to keep trying to help the kind of people lurking in this forum tho.

 

Hello deaden, I was wondering when you were going to comment on my post.

 

I think there can be some lasting changes with regards to NSI 189. Pramipexole, well from my observations, that stuff seems to work better in middle age people or above. It has been working miracles for a number of folk who fit that age bracket recently. No evidence of course, that just seems to be an emerging pattern i've noticed.

 

Jaiho is having success(still early days) with prozac and low dose zyprexa he says.

 

Has your memory improved much? I remember from your time on discord you were having big problems in that regard, just like me. What percentage of remission have you attained?

 

The thing is deaden, some people need medications and other things to give them the motivation to induce the psychological and lifestyle changes you are endorsing. Without medication, my motivation is zero. have trouble motivating myself to even eat or drink, and it is approaching 38 degrees here now


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#9 Deaden

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 11:46 PM

Hi, so here’s some recovery stories I had saved on my computer…

 

https://www.reddit.c...cured_me_of_my/

https://www.dpselfhe...d-from-reality/

https://www.survivin...rek-i-had-pssd/ 2 recovery stories in the same link, maybe can count a third in the end of the comments

https://www.depressi...ling-fantastic/

https://www.reddit.c...hedonia_report/

https://www.dpselfhe...-now-your-turn/

https://www.reddit.c...ional_numbness/

https://www.depressi...ling-fantastic/

https://www.dpselfhe...56-i-feel-well/

 

Here’s a few from NoFap… abstaining from any form of addiction will be beneficial, but it won’t always be sufficient to feel normal. Like I said before, the more good habits you participate in, the faster you’ll heal. I’d say staying away from any addictive behavior is first step, and you can snowball from there. 

 

https://www.nofap.co...-induced.29826/

https://www.reddit.c...e_have_noticed/

http://www.yourbrain...numbness.17560/

https://www.reddit.c...it_will_almost/

https://www.nofap.co...ns-again.58878/

https://www.nofap.co...h-nofap.158620/

 

Then there’s others that recovered naturally on the anhedonia facebook group: Boris, Ouji, Ryan, Jigna, Mighty JOE XXY, Kim (fell back into it after a weed induced psychotic episode), some guy eating almonds focusing his mind on playing sudoku all day forgot his name, another dude that said he quit all internet usage for a couple days and just like that his emotions returned. You can message them if you want and ask what they did to get better, but likely the answer will lie near somewhere around that they stayed off drugs, did things which helped in lessening unproductive mind chatter and connect them to reality/the present. Or at least that’s what they did that helped them without realizing it. 

I had a bunch of other saved testimonies with good advice in the form of screenshots, but I deleted them all a while ago sorry. I could find them again, but my plane is departing tomorrow, no time. 

Well… you know itstrevor? The guy that had made the hundred pages anhedonia thread, he did it staying off anything as well, you can read his last comments he made before he left. 

Anyway you can find some more yourself... there's quite a few mentionining anhedonia on dpselfhelp. Depersonalization asperghers, ocd, anhedonia, depression, anxiety they all kind of have the same roots. It's all about reducing unproductive mind chatter. 

 

Anhedonia is a result of chronic overthinking/ not being immersed in reality, there’s no question about it. I’m really not surprised that you say you have ocd over your anhedonia, I had the same, it was terrible. A lot of people with anhedonia have that, and the irony is that by obsessing over how you can feel better, you are making yourself worst. Try to view yourself as perfectly fine, stay away from addictions, find yourself hobbies you can immerse yourself in. If you can teach yourself to put your full focus in activities again, you will quickly feel better I guarantee you. Honestly… my advice for anyone with anhedonia is you need to do things, it’s very hard to rationalize yourself to stop ruminating just by knowing you should…  

Try not to let any place for rumination, be busy! When you feel like crap, your rumination is very bad… then it’s very hard to pull yourself out of it, but it goes the other way too. The better you feel, the easier it becomes to do things that make you feel even better. 

I’m sorry but you have no excuses to say you can’t do it. I’ve done it, others have done it… and they had it just as intense for years as well. No, it doesn’t take years to feel better, only so long to realize what you are doing wrong. Then you can feel much better very quickly when you work on yourself.

 

So here are my tips: 

 

-Limit music (not completely), it is sensory overload for your brain, forces it to numb itself to outside stimuli, so more prone to overthinking.

-Outside walks, walking out just an hour everyday, focusing on what you see, smell, hear, or how the sun or wind feels on your skin while trying to feel a positive vibe. Doing that will help in calming your mind, letting go off worries and is a very easy form of meditation to do so no excuses. I understand how hard it can be to do real meditation, the more your mind is racing, the harder it is to calm it down (that’s why I said do things that make you busy). If you can enter a deep state of meditation, you’ll feel intense emotions on the very first day of trying for a couple hours by the way, but it may take more effort or time if your symptoms are at their worst. 

-Stop obsessing over symptoms, and aim to focus your attention on positive events, your body, or on outside stimuli. It will not come naturally at first, but you can teach yourself to do that, it’s more anti-anhedonic than any drug can give you long term. I keep saying it, but working on relaxing your mind is a must.  Things like massages, or acupuncture can make it easier for you. If you are getting a session, and not making any effort to be in the present moment and feel your senses, you will not get any lasting benefits.

-Don’t chase highs (this will make you more lazy than you should be).

-Socializing, I’m sorry but nothing better than a girlfriend to keep you busy, calm your mind back to reality and feel positive. I understand if you still don’t feel like socializing at all because it feels painful, or because nobody interests you, don’t force it if you can’t force it. Although isolation, and not being busy will kill you, so at least be busy with doing something else, but NOT with something like watching a youtube video with 50% of your attention on the video, and 50% on everything going wrong with your life.

-Instant cold shower or very hot bath if you’re feeling at your worst. It’s intense stimuli for your body, forces your mind to redirect its attention on your sensations for a moment which helps put some brakes on the overthinking and feel better for a bit. Don’t abuse this because it can be shocking for your brain when it doesn’t expect it, and make you feel more brain fogged or very tired after (good when you want to sleep), just do this once in a while only when necessary.

-Exercise, if you do a sport focus on being good at it, if you go to the gym, focus on the pain in the muscles. Try not to think too much (of course at first you can’t help it, but as you go on your mind can more easily calm down). If all you do while working out is keep on feeding your obsessions or whatever, you’ll be more lazy and feel less good than you should.


Edited by Deaden, 27 July 2018 - 12:16 AM.

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#10 CWF1986

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 09:26 AM

Thx a bunch for the all the links and the very detailed response.  I do appreciate your time.  It'll take some time to mull over everything in your post and then some time to look over those links. I totally get the "reducing unproductive mind chatter".  Naturally, much easier said than done.  In fact, to my knowledge this is pretty close to the foundations of cognitive behavioral therapy and I had a therapist working with me on these things and it did help.  My biggest issue was rumination and worry and I hadn't realized how much I had let it consume me.  But I got a lot of help in reframing what was bothering me and taking steps to improve my lot.  

 

Lately, I've been practicing on clearing and emptying my mind.  I'm already seeing improvements in my adhd, anxiety, and depression symptoms.  I have this program on my PC that clears RAM and when I use it my PC runs so much better.  By focusing on very simple things in the here in now for a few minutes like the fabric of my pants, enjoyable music I can get lost in, or just my heartbeat and breathing I feel like I've run that program on my brain haha.  It really helps me become motivated to do things in a calm sustainable way.  Amping myself up with caffeine, heavy metal, and dark thoughts and memories to do every little task just isn't a long term solution and is no way to live.  

 

I've only had DP/DR symptoms when anxiety and depression have hit me the absolute hardest and I think it was just my mind's way of making life tolerable.  There were even times where it would take a couple seconds before I recognized myself in a mirror.  Once the depression and anxiety were more manageable, the DP/DR symptoms went away.  Just some food for thought for the OP just to introduce the idea that once anothe issue is sorted out the anhedonia might get better too.  I'm not saying I think this is the case, it's just a thought.    


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#11 Teddy

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 10:09 PM

I am a severe anhedonic, which has increased over the last 20 years to the point where I am basically a recluse who occasionally "performs" a personality for the friends I have left. I have tried lots of stuff, including Rx, supplements, lifestyle stuff, and unfortunately self-medicating with caffeine and alcohol. Being a dead zombie Borg is a fucking hard life, so you have my sympathies. I haven't found any answers and just live a pointless and meaningless existence day after day. Have I cheered you up yet?  :)  

 

Thanks for all those links Deaden, I will totally check them out. I have given up on finding some miracle med, but I am going to see a new psychiatrist on Tuesday who is supposed to be exceptional and thinks outside the box and whatnot, so I might try his protocol having not much to lose, although I have serious trepidation about psych drugs. 

 

I don't have a lot of mind chatter or worries, most of the time, there is just "nothing that seems alive" going on in my brain or body. It's hard for me to "force" socializing anymore cuz it puts my emptiness right in my face which is like torturing myself. And I'm tired of performing. I still do it sometimes, just to kind of keep those connections "in place" in case I ever truly feel like I can connect again. 

 

 



#12 gamesguru

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 01:46 AM

The reason you are at a loss is you keep turning to medicine for answers where life is just difficult.  There are two type of people in this world: honest ones, and rich ones.  You choose who to listen to and you choose your fate.

 

I know how it is all too well.  One day we wake up just feeling crummier than before, and we wonder why, how, we may even blame ourselves and start to worry things will never improve.  But oftentimes this feeling is just the feeling of becoming an adult, and finding it out in all its wonderful ways as we let life beat us around the block.  Happiness isn't a thing you can lose or gain, life isn't a game, but you might just drive yourself crazy thinking about it


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#13 MattH

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 11:42 PM

People here or in general should be clearer on what they mean by anhedonia. Some just mean "apathy", others that they can't feel sexual pleasure, literally are lacking some sensation (not just lust). The former, yes, you should (sometimes) be able to cure by meditating, long walks on the beach, a nice cup of coffee and a smile etc. The latter, nonsense, whether one has or hasn't nerval sensation is not within one's power. Doctors know this in a little thing called anesthesia. That's by the way a similar "sensation" (absence). At least during some moments, it's rarely 100% all the time. But often to some extent during the whole time, any time.

Edited by MattH, 31 July 2018 - 11:44 PM.


#14 Deaden

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 11:17 AM

Your comment is off topic… Anhedonia is the inability to experience, pleasure and nobody here has been talking about anesthesia. Although the less anhedonic someone is, the more they’ll start to enjoy tackle sensations again. Anyway no need to be a doctor to know that when a nerve is damaged, it can cause loss of sensation. 

 

So I’m glad I took my time to help and the OP doesn’t even bother answering, lol I guess anything that requires a minimum of work and effort will be feared to death by long term anhedonics… even if it’s to save themselves from staying in this forever.

 

 

Becareful you might get added to the list of longecity biggest morons: Jaiho, Mind_Paralysis, jack black, MichaelTheAnhedonic, Galaxyshock, Hip


Edited by Deaden, 04 August 2018 - 11:24 AM.

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#15 Teddy

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 04:40 PM

Hi Deaden, if I may, why are you so frustrated/angry? I mean, I know you feel like you put effort into trying to help people and it goes unappreciated, but it just seems like you are angrier than that. I am asking sincerely so please don't take it as a provocation. 



#16 Deaden

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 04:53 PM

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 


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#17 Teddy

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 07:01 PM

scared-smiley-emoticon.gif



#18 CWF1986

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 10:46 PM

Oftentimes, the things we say for people or do for people don't help until long after said and done and often we never even see their improvement.

 

I know there's been things told to me that never really clicked until well after the person is no longer in my life and I've also had people come to me whom I don't even recognize anymore tell me how something I said or did helped them out in their lives.  For every person you do see gain benefit, I can't help but wonder how many are touched by what we do/say that we don't see helped.  

 

Just watch the Christmas movie 'It's a wonderful life' to understand kind of what I mean.  :) 



#19 airplanepeanuts

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 11:05 PM

 Happiness isn't a thing you can lose or gain

 

What kind of unearthly happiness are you talking about?



#20 gamesguru

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:23 AM

the kind that comes and goes


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#21 Clavius

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 09:58 AM

Sorry to bump an "old" thread. OP did you ever find any kind of relief from this?

I seem to be in the same boat, with the only difference being me never having had any SSRI's.



#22 link11

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 08:31 AM

Sorry to bump an "old" thread. OP did you ever find any kind of relief from this?

I seem to be in the same boat, with the only difference being me never having had any SSRI's.

 

Unfortunately I am still the same Clavius.

 

Only withdrawing from amitriptyline for a week gives me any kind of joy and emotions back.



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#23 Clavius

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 08:53 AM

Unfortunately I am still the same Clavius.

 

Only withdrawing from amitriptyline for a week gives me any kind of joy and emotions back.

 

That suck, I'm sorry.

 

What's your current course of action?



#24 link11

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 02:22 PM

That suck, I'm sorry.

 

What's your current course of action?

 

Maybe see if I can get a cholinergic medication called bethanechol.

 

It cured someone on the PSSD forum. Other than that, not sure.



#25 gamesguru

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 06:11 AM

Only withdrawing from amitriptyline for a week gives me any kind of joy and emotions back.

 

Well stop taking it then and try magnesium, ginseng and/or saffron.


Edited by gamesguru, 26 January 2019 - 06:12 AM.


#26 link11

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 08:06 AM

Well stop taking it then and try magnesium, ginseng and/or saffron.

 

No, what I mean is that taking amitriptyline for a sustained period and then coming off of it suddenly creates the anti-anhedonic effect.

 

When the drug is completely out of my system, I am back to baseline anhedonia.

 

A few months back I even took a low dose of 25mg amitriptyline for two days, and then stopped it just to experiment.

 

My brain started scanning back trying to remember the emotions I have not felt these past five years, it was remarkable. But the effect was not strong enough. It has to be a high dosage administered for a set periord for the most positive effect.

 

If my body handled the drug better, I would try and mantain this withdrawal period permanently, by taking it every other day or a few times a week or something.

 

I am starting to wonder if,given amitriptyline's potent anticholinergic activity, there is a knock on effect at those receptors that briefly reverses the anticholinergic effect whilst in a remissive period from the drug.

 

 

Someone earlier mentioned it could be histamine, and elsewhere I was referenced to "super sensisitzation" of 5ht1 and 2 receptors. I wish I knew which it was.

 

And another thing, I am starting to believe that the anticholinergic effects of amitriptyline were now responsible for my emotional numbing. The time frame adds up perfectly.

 

Anticholinerigcs are massively antidepressive.

 

Well, we all know how big pharma likes to treat depression-by numbing emotions...



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#27 Hip

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 08:35 PM

Just discovered that glucuronolactone (a natural ingredient in some energy drinks) noticeably improves my anhedonia. See this thread







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