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Excess Dopamine

dopamine depression paranoia agitation

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#1 James88

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 12:43 AM


Greetings my intelligent friends,

Does anybody know of any natural supplements that decrease dopamine and/or prevent it from building in excess?

The only one I know of is Licorice Root, which I have responded really well to, BUT I’m aware of its cortisol increasing/testosterone decreasing factors and am not willing to take it long term. Any suggestions are much appreciated, thanks!

#2 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 10:36 AM

Hold on, how do you know you have "excess dopamine"?

 

Licorice root contains many compounds that could affect you (I'm unfamiliar with this plant, but our fellow member @Gamesguru should have more information for you) - how do you know it's inhibition of Dopamine synthesis that's helping you? For instance... I just found this quick article, which claims that Licorice contains an MAOI-like compound, which increases dopamine activity...!

Antidepressant-like activity of Glycyrrhiza glabra L. in mouse models of immobility tests.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16443316

 

This suggests that antidepressant-like effect of liquorice extract seems to be mediated by increase of brain norepinephrine and dopamine, but not by increase of serotonin.

 

 

Now, I also see some articles about how it contains a compound which does the opposite - blocks dopamine activity.

https://www.scienced...90218223504.htm

 

However, don't go off too fast on the idea that you need to lower dopamine activity or synthesis - the effects of licorice is obviously a lot more complex than just that - and it seems to me, that it MODULATES dopamine activity, rather than just lower or increase it.

 

 

If you're absolutely certain that enhanced dopamine synthesis is your issue, or increased dopamine activity (this implies something like hyperthyroidism... which is actually often fixable with surgery or other measures), then you can always go on a Tyrosine elimination-diet.

https://en.wikipedia...nts_and_sources

 

Eliminate the most potent sources, and you will put a very big stop to the production of dopamine - it will still be synthesised through other pathways, but this will lower it significantly.

 

 

If you want to go hardcore drugs, then the third-generation antipsychotics is the way to go: Aripiprazole (lowers prolactin, hence probably won't lower T), Brexpiprazole and Cariprazine. Personally I would probably do that - it's actually a more selective approach than eliminating dopamine entirely.

 


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#3 John250

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 04:22 PM

Hold on, how do you know you have "excess dopamine"?

Licorice root contains many compounds that could affect you (I'm unfamiliar with this plant, but our fellow member @Gamesguru should have more information for you) - how do you know it's inhibition of Dopamine synthesis that's helping you? For instance... I just found this quick article, which claims that Licorice contains an MAOI-like compound, which increases dopamine activity...! Antidepressant-like activity of Glycyrrhiza glabra L. in mouse models of immobility tests.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16443316


Now, I also see some articles about how it contains a compound which does the opposite - blocks dopamine activity.
https://www.scienced...90218223504.htm

However, don't go off too fast on the idea that you need to lower dopamine activity or synthesis - the effects of licorice is obviously a lot more complex than just that - and it seems to me, that it MODULATES dopamine activity, rather than just lower or increase it.


If you're absolutely certain that enhanced dopamine synthesis is your issue, or increased dopamine activity (this implies something like hyperthyroidism... which is actually often fixable with surgery or other measures), then you can always go on a Tyrosine elimination-diet.
https://en.wikipedia...nts_and_sources

Eliminate the most potent sources, and you will put a very big stop to the production of dopamine - it will still be synthesised through other pathways, but this will lower it significantly.


If you want to go hardcore drugs, then the third-generation antipsychotics is the way to go: Aripiprazole (lowers prolactin, hence probably won't lower T), Brexpiprazole and Cariprazine. Personally I would probably do that - it's actually a more selective approach than eliminating dopamine entirely.


Aripiprazole Is a d2 agonist though

#4 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 05:49 PM

Aripiprazole Is a d2 agonist though

 

Partial agonist - depending on dosage and other conditions, the end-result actually ends up being antagonistic. This is why it's actually got antipsychotic properties.
 



#5 James88

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 07:08 PM

My thyroid function has been thoroughly tested and is all normal on all counts. I’m positive about my dopamine levels being excessive. This is a conclusion over 2 years of trial and error.

I initially felt that I had inadequate dopamine levels, due to being diagnosed with ADHD from a young age, and struggling with addiction in adulthood. My symptoms are depression, agitation, paranoia, suspicious personality, RLS, rumination and overactive sex drive.

Anything that increases dopamine meds/supplements makes me feel awful. A paranoid suicidal mess.

I was prescribed one of the meds you mentioned, along with Risperidone and Olanzapine, and although they improved my symptoms, they made me so unbelievably drowsy it just wasn’t worth it. Licorice Root is the first supplement I’ve tried that has been reported to decrease dopamine levels and I’ve had some great results from it. I’m currently reading into Magnolia Bark.

So, does anyone have any suggestions on NATURAL SUPPLEMENTS that are said to decrease dopamine and/or prevent excess. I’d like to trial this route. Can’t do me anymore harm than all the other routes I’ve tried.

#6 John250

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 07:08 PM

Partial agonist - depending on dosage and other conditions, the end-result actually ends up being antagonistic. This is why it's actually got antipsychotic properties.


That makes sense. When I tried it I didn’t notice any positive Dopamine affects.

#7 Heyguy

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 01:23 PM

Bacopa, or increasing serotonin correlates with lower dopamine

#8 gamesguru

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 02:34 PM

Partial agonist - depending on dosage and other conditions, the end-result actually ends up being antagonistic. This is why it's actually got antipsychotic properties.

 

this.  things aren't always as they seem

 

Bacopa, or increasing serotonin correlates with lower dopamine

 

Bacopa also makes a lot of people tired (e.g. stomach/muscle cramps), it develops tolerance (e.g. more suitable to cycling than chronic use), and generally isn't terribly good in practice for anything but your vocabulary.  Bacopa is really great, though I have phased it out for a bit; taking it for just 4-6 months can leave you with cognitive and emotional benefits for the rest of your life


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#9 James88

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 06:32 PM

So does Bacopa definitely decrease dopamine? I’m finding very mixed opinions. Do you know of any else? Magnolia bark and Mulberry leaf extract are a couple I’ve come across. Any knowledge on those?

#10 Heyguy

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 06:44 PM

Bacopa inhibits dopamine spikes and increases serotonin so decreases dopamine per se. I recommend bacognize. I also read white mulberry lowering dopamine, I've never tried it

Edited by Heyguy, 30 October 2018 - 06:52 PM.


#11 gamesguru

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 02:18 AM

bacopa, like masturbation, decreases dopamine and is not recommended on a daily basis.  Even if it "raises dopamine" it remains to see exactly what we mean by this.  Does it raise it globally or only locally, which subtypes are most affected, is this a presynaptic phenomenon, how chronic are the effects, and what is the rebound?

 

that is what happens when we measure things without true reference to anything.  you get caught up in particulars and relatives, and you miss the actual point.  You do not need bacopa to be great or powerful or wise.  Smash limits imposed by others, laugh at society and define your own standards. Many of the greatest thinkers were self-taught. Listen to your heart and you will not lead yourself astray



#12 DeltaWave

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 07:50 PM

try cariprazine.

 

Cariprazine acts to inhibit overstimulated dopamine receptors (acting as an antagonist) and stimulate the same receptors when the endogenous dopamine levels are low.


Edited by DeltaWave, 10 November 2018 - 07:51 PM.


#13 John250

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 10:35 PM

bacopa, like masturbation, decreases dopamine and is not recommended on a daily basis. Even if it "raises dopamine" it remains to see exactly what we mean by this. Does it raise it globally or only locally, which subtypes are most affected, is this a presynaptic phenomenon, how chronic are the effects, and what is the rebound?

that is what happens when we measure things without true reference to anything. you get caught up in particulars and relatives, and you miss the actual point. You do not need bacopa to be great or powerful or wise. Smash limits imposed by others, laugh at society and define your own standards. Many of the greatest thinkers were self-taught. Listen to your heart and you will not lead yourself astray


That’s crazy that masturbation effects neurotransmitters. My brother is currently going through benzodiazepine withdrawal(still tapering he’s on 10mg Valium now from a 5 year abuse of 50+mg Valium and RC benzo’s) and he said every time he ejaculates he gets a massive rush of anxiety that lasts about an hour. I feel really bad for him I can’t even imagine that.

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#14 gamesguru

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Posted 11 November 2018 - 02:20 PM

That’s crazy that masturbation effects neurotransmitters. My brother is currently going through benzodiazepine withdrawal(still tapering he’s on 10mg Valium now from a 5 year abuse of 50+mg Valium and RC benzo’s) and he said every time he ejaculates he gets a massive rush of anxiety that lasts about an hour. I feel really bad for him I can’t even imagine that.

 

fwiw i think the way bacopa lowers it is healthier, for other reasons however i suggest cycling bacopa on 30-90 days and off 6-9 months

sounds like he already has those tendencies.  everyone responds differently, for me it makes me dull and slightly depressed and less outgoing.  for him i'm thinking prolactin plays a role too, do some googling about prolactin with benzos or anxiety or sex.. he might feel better after quitting benzos.

 

as for the changes: prolactin goes up and dopamine and testosterone go down.  levels drop immediately but they hit a low at day 3, and recover above to a maximum by day 6-8.

 

i'm an intelligent sort of supplicating guy who doesn't get much action, but i gather that sex is more or less the same story.  when you aren't practicing safe solitary sex, there's oxytocin and other feel good chemicals, but the postcoital brain is still basically dull and confused and overly satisfied.

 

you may not feel this way if you have sex twice a day in the same way someone smoking a lot of weed just feels like themselves and like they aren't getting a huge effect good or bad from anything.  but i'm not saying to avoid these activities altogether, bad neurologic things arguably occur if you hold it in too long as well.  but something about the 6-8 day figure leaps out at me.  and in my solitary sex experience it works best.  other people may do well having sex multiple times a day, or abstaining for 700+ days.  great for them, but it's not me.







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