13 replies to this topic

[orion22]

why is nobody talking about ketosis with lots of mct oils i read keton bodys use 4 times less nad than glucolse won t you have more nad if you just go ketosis and use less nad than taking nad precursors 

 

[joesixpack]

Probably because ketosis is considered a medical condition arising out of diabetes, or a diet low on carbohydrates, which should be treated.

[joesixpack]

That would be me. Although I am informed, just have a different opinion.

[orion22]

Probably because ketosis is considered a medical condition arising out of diabetes, or a diet low on carbohydrates, which should be treated.

somone this stupid destroys the reputation of this website honestly if i wanted to argue with a 5 year old i would ve asked someone on the street 

[joesixpack]

Well, you know where the street is, have at it. And that should be "someone". I won't comment on the rest. If you want to live with ketosis it is fine with me.

[joesixpack]

Well, you know where the street is, have at it. And that should be "someone". I won't comment on the rest. If you want to live with ketosis it is fine with me.jj

 

 

By the way, why doesn't anyone answer the original poster's question instead of arguing with me? I understand that you do not like my opinion, but he would like an answer.

[Heisok]

orion22,

 

It would help if you provided references for what you read. Many here would dig into the Science issue if you point them in the direction. When you say use less NAD which NADH is also, I will have to assume that you mean use less NAD+. Using less NAD+ in the body does not indicated an absolute increase in total body NAD+, or the increase in specific areas of the body.  If your references show less NAD+ being used, then that might not take the place of precursors to increase total NAD+. They could be complimentary. If you simply mean more NAD, then that would be interesting to see,

 

Please show us. Thanks.

 

 

orion22: "why is nobody talking about ketosis with lots of mct oils i read keton bodys use 4 times less nad than glucolse won t you have more nad if you just go ketosis and use less nad than taking nad precursors"

 

NAD: https://en.wikipedia...ne_dinucleotide

Edited by Heisok, 30 November 2018 - 05:41 PM.

[orion22]

orion22,

 

It would help if you provided references for what you read. Many here would dig into the Science issue if you point them in the direction. When you say use less NAD which NADH is also, I will have to assume that you mean use less NAD+. Using less NAD+ in the body does not indicated an absolute increase in total body NAD+, or the increase in specific areas of the body.  If your references show less NAD+ being used, then that might not take the place of precursors to increase total NAD+. They could be complimentary. If you simply mean more NAD, then that would be interesting to see,

 

Please show us. Thanks.

 

 

orion22: "why is nobody talking about ketosis with lots of mct oils i read keton bodys use 4 times less nad than glucolse won t you have more nad if you just go ketosis and use less nad than taking nad precursors"

 

NAD: https://en.wikipedia...ne_dinucleotide

https://www.selfhack...ealth-benefits/

you can also google it 

"

• By being a fuel source that is more efficient to burn into energy: ketone bodies requires only one molecule of NAD+ per molecule of CoA, whereas glucose needs 4 molecules of NAD+ [R]" 

 

im not a expert but 4 for 1 seams like a super bad deal compared to 1 for 1

Edited by orion22, 30 November 2018 - 06:20 PM.

[Heisok]

So, you are talking about existing NAD+. You did not answer the following. Less is used, but it does not increase total NAD+ above baseline? It increases the NAD+/NADH ratio.Taking precursors to increase NAD+ is a different issue.

 

Edited by Heisok, 30 November 2018 - 06:59 PM.

[joesixpack]

I think Orion22 is asking about the statement below from the page that he provided a link to. The premise appears to be that when the body is in ketosis, it is only burning fat for energy, not glucose. The statement below indicates that only one molecule of NAD+ is needed per molecule of CoA ( a coenzyme used in processing fatty acids) while glucose requires 4 NAD+ molecules. So I guess the implication is that if your body is in ketosis, you need 1/4 the amount of NAD+ to get the same result. Presumably you could take 1/4 the amount of precursors.

 

I think that is the question. I don't know if the statement below is accurate, or what the science is behind it. My original comment simply reflected my personal opinion that there are risks involved with a KETO diet, and maintaining an indefinite state of ketosis in order to reduce the amount of NAD+, or a precursor might be dangerous.

• By being a fuel source that is more efficient to burn into energy: ketone bodies requires only one molecule of NAD+ per molecule of CoA, whereas glucose needs 4 molecules of NAD+ [R]

[orion22]

So, you are talking about existing NAD+. You did not answer the following. Less is used, but it does not increase total NAD+ above baseline? It increases the NAD+/NADH ratio.Taking precursors to increase NAD+ is a different issue.

how don t you get more nad+ if you get 40$ every day and you use to spend 40$ for food than suddenly start spending 10$ you get +30$ every day

It increases the NAD+/NADH":how if you just if you only spend less nad+ 

also the this info insn t new it can just find it on google 

i still take precursors also and inhibitors for that cd 38 gene or what ever its name is 

[HaplogroupW]

So, you are talking about existing NAD+. You did not answer the following. Less is used, but it does not increase total NAD+ above baseline? It increases the NAD+/NADH ratio.Taking precursors to increase NAD+ is a different issue.

 

 

I don't think so. NAD+ tripled here:

 

we established that the increase in ratio was solely due to an increase in the oxidized form of NAD (Figure ​Figure1B).

[Heisok]

"Hippocampal changes in NAD and sirtuins after ketogenic diet (KD) treatment. (A,B) NAD⁺/NADH ratios and NAD⁺ levels in the hippocampus after standard chow diet (CD; n = 5), 2 day (2d; n = 7), or 3 weeks KD treatment (3w; n = 7). © Collective deacetylation activity of Sirt1, Sirt6, and Sirt7 enzymes. A significant increase was observed at 2d and remained elevated at 3w. n = 6–8 animals (n = 2 per animal). (D–F) Real-time PCR analysis of Sirt1,–6,–7 gene expression in hippocampus. Sirt1 expression was increased only at 2d of treatment. CD, n = 6; 2d KD, n = 8; 3w KD, n = 8 (n = 2 per animal)."

 

Thanks for correcting my blanket statement with this specific case, HaplogroupW. That seems like an excellent result.  Orion22 says that they still take precursors. I appreciate the clarification. The original post implied Ketosis as a replacement.

 

Personally, I eat a Ketogenic diet (for me-20 grams total carbs, 70 grams protein and the rest fat.), take C8 mct oil spread out through the day, and use NAD+ precursors. 

Edited by Heisok, 01 December 2018 - 01:13 AM.

[MikeDC]

Ketosis does increase NAD+ in the brain. It can help with Cockayne Syndrome in mice model.
But People who follow Atkin diet dont live very long. So it is not a good way to extend lifespan.