11 replies to this topic

[boilerroom]

I'm 22/Male/good health but have always had slight/moderate social anxiety and was looking for one more mood/memory/focus (what student doesnt need help to remain concentrated on mind-numbingly boring material?) enhancer to complete my stack. I have been looking into Rhodiola, Bacopa, and Theanine. I recently purchased Theanine and have noticed a VERY, VERY mild postive effect. I'm starting to wonder if I should be looking for something that increases serotonin, as opposed to dopamine (theanine). I know absolutely nothing about rhodiola and would appreciate any information regarding effectiveness and how it works. I'm also wondering how people feel about Bacopa and how long it takes to start to feel effects. I might go for a trial and error period for the next couple of months regardless, but I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks.

[boilerroom]

I've read other comments that says Bacopa requires about 3 months of use, but I've found a couple studies that produce effects in as little as 5 weeks.

http://www.springerl...ults,1:100390,1

[boilerroom]

One more thing: Is BACOGNIZE a reputable source of Bacopa? Because I found a product that uses Bacognize and claims to have 45% baccosides but says nothing about Bacosides A and B.

[arcticjoe]

Bacopa did not do much for me at all, tried various doses but I didnt take it for a long time, rhodiolla on the other hand was excellent at keeping me level headed through very stressful situations, but its effects are inconsistent - sometimes lower doses are more effective than smaller ones, other times it works only when I take a lot @ ~1.5g. Also rhodiolla seems to effect sleep a little, but is probably the most effective herb supplement I had used.

[FunkOdyssey]

One more thing: Is BACOGNIZE a reputable source of Bacopa? Because I found a product that uses Bacognize and claims to have 45% baccosides but says nothing about Bacosides A and B.

Bacopa is a terrific supplement, both for its cognitive effects and its health benefits. Its one of the few substances demonstrated to improve cognition in healthy people... more than you can say for some of the synthetic chinese powders being pushed for that purpose. Don't expect any acute effects with Bacopa -- this is one case where you have to trust the research, unless you think you can keep track of subtle changes that manifest over a three month period.

The most potent (and best, IMO) extract right now is Bacopin, which is standardized to 50% bacosides A & B. You can find it in AOR's Bacopa product, or for a slightly lower cost from Paradise Herbs (available at papanature.com).

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 28 April 2006 - 02:52 PM.

[boilerroom]

Thanks for the responses. I definitely think Bacopa is a better fit for me than Rhodiola due to its overall memory enhancing. Rhodiola seems to help with memory indirectly by calming stress, but I definitely never feel mentally fatigued or stressed while studying. I simply want to retain information faster help my slight social anxiety, which will be helped by Bacopa's serotonin abilities. However, I've been reading online that Bacopa increase T4 thyroid hormone. I have always suspected I have a mild case of hyperthyroid (heat intolerance, and a couple other symptoms), and I've been meaning to get extensive blood work for thyroid done soon so maybe Ill hold off on Bacopa till then. Do you know if there are any studies that show Bacopa doesn't affect thyroid hormones when used in low doses (but still high enough to get results)?

[FunkOdyssey]

I've been reading online that Bacopa increase T4 thyroid hormone. I have always suspected I have a mild case of hyperthyroid (heat intolerance, and a couple other symptoms), and I've been meaning to get extensive blood work for thyroid done soon so maybe Ill hold off on Bacopa till then. Do you know if there are any studies that show Bacopa doesn't affect thyroid hormones when used in low doses (but still high enough to get results)?

Only one study has demonstrated this effect, to my knowledge:

J Ethnopharmacol. 2002 Jul;81(2):281-5.  Related Articles, Links
    Click here to read
    Relative efficacy of three medicinal plant extracts in the alteration of thyroid hormone concentrations in male mice.

    Kar A, Panda S, Bharti S.

    Thyroid Research Unit, School of Life Sciences, Devi Ahilya University, Vigyan Bhawan, Khandwa Road, Indore 452 017, India.

    Relative importance of Bacopa monnieri (200 mg/kg), Aegle marmelos (1.00 g/kg) and Aloe vera (125 mg/kg) leaf extracts in the regulation of thyroid hormone concentrations in male mice was investigated. While serum levels of both T(3) and T(4) were inhibited by A. vera, A. marmelos extract could decrease only T(3) concentration. On the other hand, T(4) concentration was increased by B. monnieri extract suggesting its thyroid-stimulating role. When the relative potency of each plant extract was calculated in terms of percent increase or decrease in thyroid hormones, as compared to the control value, the decrease in T(3) concentration by A. marmelos was about 62% indicating its possible use in the regulation of hyperthyroidism. B. monnieri could increase T(4) concentration by 41% without enhancing hepatic lipid peroxidation (LPO) suggesting that it can be used as a thyroid-stimulating drug. In fact, hepatic LPO was decreased and superoxide dismutase (SOD) and catalase (CAT) activities were increased by B. monnieri and A. marmelos leaf extracts showing their antiperoxidative role. It is thus suggested that A. marmelos and A. vera may be used in the regulation of hyperthyroidism, while B. monnieri in hypothyroidism.

    PMID: 12065164

200mg/kg seems like a much higher dose than anything we would consider, although we don't know what concentration of bacosides were used in the study. Too bad we don't have the full-text.

I recently purchased Theanine and have noticed a VERY, VERY mild postive effect.

Boilerroom: what dosage of theanine have you been using?

[boilerroom]

Country Life's 200mg theanine. I usually take one, sometimes two, a day. I've only been taking it for a couple of days. It gives me a slight serene feeling, but I don't think I'm the type of person to get great results from it. I only get anxiety during/thinking about large social gatherings and public speaking. I don't even get that nervous or anxious during exams or meeting deadlines for large term papers. If I had generalized anxiety that occured all-day, I definitely think it'd be a big help.

Thanks for the info on Bacopa. I know absolutely nothing about thyroids but did realize that the bacopa dosage was huge, especially for a rat. It's impossible to determine the effects on humans or whether a lower dosage would do nothing or simply just raise thyroid levels slightly. The problem is compounded by the fact that I don't how much a % change in thyroid is needed before I see problems. So many factors to think about.

I don't take many supplements and only started about a month ago, but so far Vinpocetine has made a huge impact (maybe I have a slight blood flow problem?). I'm starting to think if Bacopa doesn't work me, then I may looking into another CEREBRAL VASODILATOR. Are there any others that don't require it to be paired with something else???
As a side note, I was on an SSRI for about a week, which basically eliminated my social/public speaking anxiety and definitely greatly increased my short-term memory immensely, but had to quit due to how groggy it made me. I've looked into natural products to increase serotonin but the results either seem unreliable or have the groggy effect as well.

I'm starting to feel that either a serotonin enhancer or Cerebral Vasodilator would be of greatest benefit to me. I'll give Bacopa a try but are their any others that fit into those two categories? Thanks for you time.

[boilerroom]

The SSRI was for migraines and not depression, which would of course signal a possible serotonin problem.

[boilerroom]

A link between short-term memory and serotonin.

http://www.newscient...024182.600.html

[wiserd]

5HTP boosts serotonin, but you need to be very careful with dosage since it's easy to overdose.

My ex girlfriend used theanine. It's good you don't use it regularly, since you can build a tolerance. She had to periodically cylce off it.

[NG_F]

A link between short-term memory and serotonin.

http://www.newscient...024182.600.html

I hope it's a positive association.Can you please get me that info as the link is not working anymore.If not what was the consensus, good or bad?

Thanks.Much appreciated