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TUDCA for subclinical hypothyroidism/low t3 and mildly elevated liver markers?

tudca liver asat alat tsh thyroid mood wellbeing

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#1 MankindRising

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 04:18 PM


Right so my ASAT and ALAT are at like 40 ish and just outside the range, my 23andme test shows Im prone to have chronic hepatitis B.

Did a bloodtest shows it isnt very clear that I have hepatitis B but the numbers are somewhere in between negative and positive. The fact that I put a tremendous amount of energy and time in my health such as diet, exercise, lifestyle and sleep in optimizing myself makes me wonder what would happen to my liver values.

 

Now In my own case I seem to have elevated TSH (which levothyroxine does bring down a fair bit), but neither my T4 nor T3 levels have been altered much compared to before and during levothyroxine, especially T3 is staying somewhat on the low side.

Now the majority of T4->T3 conversion takes place in the liver.

 

This is where TUDCA potentially do its magic for me: it can both low liver values and increase d2 enzyme activity (enhanced T4 to T3 conversion).

 

Anyone on here that has used TUDCA and has had positive changes in wellbeing due improvement in bloodvalues?

 

Also for those who have used both TUDCA and Taurine alone: how would you compare the mood effects of TUDCA, does TUDCA have a unique feel to it that is (subjectively) different than Taurine?


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#2 bocor

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 07:53 AM

I have been impressed with tudca one gram
Per day

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#3 MankindRising

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 11:50 AM

I have been impressed with tudca one gram
Per day

What are you taking it for? What effects do you notice or have you seen (blood liver markers?), does it affect your mood, if so how would you compare it vs Taurine?



#4 John250

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 10:55 PM

Right so my ASAT and ALAT are at like 40 ish and just outside the range, my 23andme test shows Im prone to have chronic hepatitis B.
Did a bloodtest shows it isnt very clear that I have hepatitis B but the numbers are somewhere in between negative and positive. The fact that I put a tremendous amount of energy and time in my health such as diet, exercise, lifestyle and sleep in optimizing myself makes me wonder what would happen to my liver values.

Now In my own case I seem to have elevated TSH (which levothyroxine does bring down a fair bit), but neither my T4 nor T3 levels have been altered much compared to before and during levothyroxine, especially T3 is staying somewhat on the low side.
Now the majority of T4->T3 conversion takes place in the liver.

This is where TUDCA potentially do its magic for me: it can both low liver values and increase d2 enzyme activity (enhanced T4 to T3 conversion).

Anyone on here that has used TUDCA and has had positive changes in wellbeing due improvement in bloodvalues?

Also for those who have used both TUDCA and Taurine alone: how would you compare the mood effects of TUDCA, does TUDCA have a unique feel to it that is (subjectively) different than Taurine?

AST/ALT are not important markers for the liver unless they are extremely elevated. Just standard resistance training can elevate them. Bilirubin and GGT are much better indicators.

TUDCA is excellent and so is Picroliv as well as milk thistle and Liv52

https://examine.com/...rorhiza-kurroa/

https://www.selfhack...tudca-benefits/

Also if your using levothyroxine(T4) the dose needs frequent adjustments and as I’m sure you know it must be taken on an empty stomach first thing in the morning to properly absorb. A full hour minimum must pass before eating. Your body can only convert so much T4 to T3 when only using T4. That’s why it’s best to use both T4 and T3 or the newer thyroid grains which contain both.

Edited by John250, 26 December 2018 - 10:57 PM.

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#5 MankindRising

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 12:04 PM

AST/ALT are not important markers for the liver unless they are extremely elevated. Just standard resistance training can elevate them. Bilirubin and GGT are much better indicators.

TUDCA is excellent and so is Picroliv as well as milk thistle and Liv52

https://examine.com/...rorhiza-kurroa/

https://www.selfhack...tudca-benefits/

Also if your using levothyroxine(T4) the dose needs frequent adjustments and as I’m sure you know it must be taken on an empty stomach first thing in the morning to properly absorb. A full hour minimum must pass before eating. Your body can only convert so much T4 to T3 when only using T4. That’s why it’s best to use both T4 and T3 or the newer thyroid grains which contain both.

I'll give tudca a try in the new years, its mainly the combination of both the mildly elevated asat/alat (im talking about 10+ years btw consistently elevated) which I think is due chronic low grade stress. Then when the liver is impaired so is the conversion to T4 to T3 as far as Im aware.

 

Regarding levothyroxine: yeah I take 100mcg on an empty stomach first thing in the morning and avoid any form of caffeine for atleast 2hours after intake (shown to screw with TSH when taken too close together with levo).

 

Ive tried cytomel from my doc in the past before, it made me sweat and feel friggin hot, it sure as hell was working but it felt wrong in the way that there was energetic wise a lot of up and downs so to speak. Didnt like the re-dosing throughout the day :/.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the levo and 1 hour not eating btw, not many people who use levo actually do that or know it.



#6 John250

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 10:53 PM

I'll give tudca a try in the new years, its mainly the combination of both the mildly elevated asat/alat (im talking about 10+ years btw consistently elevated) which I think is due chronic low grade stress. Then when the liver is impaired so is the conversion to T4 to T3 as far as Im aware.

Regarding levothyroxine: yeah I take 100mcg on an empty stomach first thing in the morning and avoid any form of caffeine for atleast 2hours after intake (shown to screw with TSH when taken too close together with levo).

Ive tried cytomel from my doc in the past before, it made me sweat and feel friggin hot, it sure as hell was working but it felt wrong in the way that there was energetic wise a lot of up and downs so to speak. Didnt like the re-dosing throughout the day :/.

Thanks for the heads up on the levo and 1 hour not eating btw, not many people who use levo actually do that or know it.


You probably took too much Cytomel. Even 6.25-12.5mcg may help your T3 conversion.

#7 GABAergic

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:06 PM

mankind rising, so you never did tudca and you are asking for information or you did do it with proven positive results? i was going to ask whats your souce if the second, but if not, ive taken it before and i think stopping drinking is what fixed the liver enzymes so i cannot say if tudca did anything or not. maybe it did help? anyway i stopped taking it after a single bottle and i never noticed anything with mood or well being in general. i guess it was very subtle. anyway if you do it, please report results, thanks



#8 MankindRising

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 05:03 PM

mankind rising, so you never did tudca and you are asking for information or you did do it with proven positive results? i was going to ask whats your souce if the second, but if not, ive taken it before and i think stopping drinking is what fixed the liver enzymes so i cannot say if tudca did anything or not. maybe it did help? anyway i stopped taking it after a single bottle and i never noticed anything with mood or well being in general. i guess it was very subtle. anyway if you do it, please report results, thanks

I never used it and am asking for information bud.

 

And yeah if I decide to use it in the future I will definetely post. Im currently having extremely good effects with SAM-E for mood.



#9 GABAergic

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 04:46 PM

i tried SAM-e 800mg twice a day and i didnt notice improvement in mood, rather it probably stimulates norepinephrine because i was a bit agitated and overexcited at some point. does it work on depression for you because of norepinphrine or you cannot tell what it does really?



#10 John250

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:13 PM

mankind rising, so you never did tudca and you are asking for information or you did do it with proven positive results? i was going to ask whats your souce if the second, but if not, ive taken it before and i think stopping drinking is what fixed the liver enzymes so i cannot say if tudca did anything or not. maybe it did help? anyway i stopped taking it after a single bottle and i never noticed anything with mood or well being in general. i guess it was very subtle. anyway if you do it, please report results, thanks

Olympus Labs and Nutricost have good TUDCA. TUDCA also goes well with glutamine, Citicoline and NAC. If you’re looking to repair your liver you should also look into Liv52 double strength and Picroliv(Picrorhiza kurroa)

This is a pretty good all in one health supplement:

https://www.strongsu...by-olympus-labs

Lots of herbs as well:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5474722/

Edited by John250, 03 January 2019 - 10:15 PM.

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#11 MankindRising

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 04:48 PM

i tried SAM-e 800mg twice a day and i didnt notice improvement in mood, rather it probably stimulates norepinephrine because i was a bit agitated and overexcited at some point. does it work on depression for you because of norepinphrine or you cannot tell what it does really?

My problem is complex, but through the information digging I have done SAM-E seems a miracle to me on paper and the effects on me are profound.

I have quite a few genetic problems:

* Diagnosed with aspergers/adhd/tourette

* mother has crohn, father was a painter exposing chronicly to solvents (has tics and mild form of tourette from seeing his behavior)

 

23andme raw data (through codegen.eu / promethease and a bunch of others) and bloodtest shows:

* A2A polymorphism associated with ADHD and ASD

* il-6 rare polymorphism, associated with LESS il-6

* TSH elevated (im subclinical hypothyroidism, which I pin down to autoimmunity - my TSH antibodies are also elevated)

* T3 stays on the low side, irrelevant of being on/off levothyroxine compared to 3 years ago prior to starting it

* elevated prolactin in blood test (still in range but a bit high imo - seems as if my autoimmunity keeps sending a TRH signal to my pituairy and keeps releasing TSH and prolactin - see my bloodtests that I posted in another post)

* SERT and DAT polymorphism (associated with OCD and ADHD)

* TPH2 associated with OCD and tourette

* Akt mutation associated with shizophrenia and cannabis induced psychosis

* increased ASAT/ALAT, for over 10 years+ slightly over top range (due to autoimmunity I suspect)

* blood tests show increased BUN levels ~1.2 - 1.5times above the upper tolerable limit

* beta adrenergic polymorphism associated less responsive to asthma inhalers (luckily I dont have asthma)

* 60% efficiency in processing folate

* COMT warrior

* OXTR variation associated with autism

* Alcohol hangovers make me feel normal (dna methylation inhibition takes place there and H3K4, H3K9 changes happen, which then signal src/fyn kinase to restore NMDAR synaptic plasticity - mainly nr2b receptors in the amygdala)

 

Now s-adenosylmethionine (SAM-E) does the following:

 

Striatal adenosine A2A receptor expression is controlled by S-adenosyl-L-methionine-mediated methylation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24943396

 

Modulation of endotoxin stimulated interleukin-6 production in monocytes and Kupffer cells by S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe).

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15566950

 

S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe) modulates interleukin-10 and interleukin-6, but not TNF, production via the adenosine (A2) receptor.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15843034

 

Neuroendocrine effects of S-adenosyl-L-methionine, a novel putative antidepressant.

" At the end of the study, there was a significant reduction after treatment with SAMe in the response of both prolactin and TSH to TRH stimulation in the group of depressed men compared to pre-treatment values."
 
The effect of S-adenosyl methionine on the TSH receptor function in human thyroid tissue: increase in binding of TSH and decrease in adenylate cyclase coupling.
Guess this means it makes the TSH signal more efficient?
 
The chemical chaperones tauroursodeoxycholic and 4-phenylbutyric acid accelerate thyroid hormone activation and energy expenditure

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3133948/

study shows increased T4->T3 conversion for TUDCA

 

Stress-responsive and metabolic gene regulation are altered in low S-adenosylmethionine.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30485261

"S-adenosylmethionine (SAM) is a donor which provides the methyl groups for histone or nucleic acid modification and phosphatidylcholine production. SAM is hypothesized to link metabolism and chromatin modification, however, its role in acute gene regulation is poorly understood. We recently found that Caenorhabditis elegans with reduced SAM had deficiencies in H3K4 trimethylation (H3K4me3) at pathogen-response genes, decreasing their expression and limiting pathogen resistance. We hypothesized that SAM may be generally required for stress-responsive transcription."

 

Oral S-adenosylmethionine (SAM) Administration Increases Whole Brain Concentrations of Dopamine and Norepinephrine in Rats

https://www.fasebj.o...upplement.134.3

 

When you consider that ASD and ADHD are disorders related to inappropiate cortisol secretion and daily life adaptation to stressors, you can see how important this is.

 

 

 

PNMT is the only co-factor for adrenalin synthesis: https://en.wikipedia...thyltransferase

 

 

 

 

Also theres a study showing that SAM-E can raise TUDCA levels in the body, I cant find it atm, but its somewhere out on the net. exogenous TUDCA did seem a bit more efficient though.

 

 

For the OXTR mutation I take biogaia gastrus (contains atcc 6475 a well discussed strain here on longecity) - increases oxytocin, restores social behavior in multiple mouse models of asd, raises vta dopamine, modulates gut histamine and in the process of doing that it increases folic acid -> 5mhtf transscription


Edited by MankindRising, 04 January 2019 - 04:50 PM.


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#12 MankindRising

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 04:53 PM

Olympus Labs and Nutricost have good TUDCA. TUDCA also goes well with glutamine, Citicoline and NAC. If you’re looking to repair your liver you should also look into Liv52 double strength and Picroliv(Picrorhiza kurroa)

This is a pretty good all in one health supplement:

https://www.strongsu...by-olympus-labs

Lots of herbs as well:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5474722/

Thanks ill have a look at those vendors, NAC cdp-choline glutamine ive all tried, they simply dont do it for me.

 

NAC = aggression and hypertension, nac also can be dangerous by altering nitrate redox through complicated mechanisms, it literally makes my veins turn blue, its scary stuff for me.

cdp-choline, works for the first hour - then 48hour+ depression. the reason why cdp-choline works so well but only short is through the cholinergic metabolism that it undergoes. multiple studies show that it raises oxytocin and vasopressin but only the first 60mins of taking it.

glutamine = extremely calming but aggrevates my fordyce, so i cba with that, its a no-go.


Edited by MankindRising, 04 January 2019 - 04:56 PM.






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