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Collagen or not...?

collagen skin

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#1 MKultra

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 06:27 PM


"Collagen, like other proteins, is broken down into amino acids by enzymes in the stomach and small intestine. These amino acids then enter the blood stream via the hepatic portal to the liver. Whatever amino acids the liver does not use get released into the bloodstream for the rest of the body. It doesn't matter if you're consuming straight collagen (gelatin) or hydrolyzed collagen (collagen peptides)—they both break down into amino acids, the basic building blocks of all proteins."

 

https://www.bodybuil...-superfood.html

 

Why would you want to consume super expensive collagen, having it being broken down into the common amino acids? Because it says "collagen" on the label? If this is correct i can just eat protein and make sure they contain all these amino acids.

 

Not sure i understand the article, because it does say its effective too, so its not like they have a problem promoting that people should buy it. 

 

 



#2 AceNZ

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 09:26 PM

Personally, I don't think collagen supplements are anything special.

 

Consuming the right proteins is important. However, getting enough Vitamin C is also critical for collagen production.

 

If I was concerned about collagen, I would focus on getting enough (balanced) protein my diet, and include Vit C in my supplement program. I wouldn't add collagen supplements unless I was addressing a specific health problem or lab test result.

 


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#3 MKultra

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 09:49 PM

Yes this sounds reasonable.

 

I'm just curious why people go through the trouble and expense of buying e.g tri-peptide collagen. "it's absorbed better", they say. Really? if its broken down into amino acids anyways then why would it even be a problem in the first place? there's also discussion about which is the best collagen, marine etc. would this matter if its broken down into amino acids in the stomach? 

 

Slightly OT, but as for Vitamin C. How do you take it and in which amount? I bought some ascorbic acid (as i understand it doesn't matter if its this synthetic form or from a real fruit, it's the exact same molecule that you want.) Do you mix it with baking powder to get it more neutral? 

 

 

 



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#4 AceNZ

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 10:45 PM

Yes this sounds reasonable.

 

I'm just curious why people go through the trouble and expense of buying e.g tri-peptide collagen. "it's absorbed better", they say. Really? if its broken down into amino acids anyways then why would it even be a problem in the first place? there's also discussion about which is the best collagen, marine etc. would this matter if its broken down into amino acids in the stomach? 

 

Slightly OT, but as for Vitamin C. How do you take it and in which amount? I bought some ascorbic acid (as i understand it doesn't matter if its this synthetic form or from a real fruit, it's the exact same molecule that you want.) Do you mix it with baking powder to get it more neutral? 

 

Why do people buy stuff they don't really need? Marketing! Also, there's a *tremendous* amount of mis-information flying around the health and fitness communities. That's not to say that some people don't need and wouldn't benefit from taking collagen directly -- I'm sure there are people with certain health problems who would.

 

Regarding the best source (for those who truly need it), one of the issues is impurities. Things like microtoxins, micronutrients, and so on. It would be similar to other supplements in that way.

 

My favorite form of Vit C is Liposomal C. I put the contents of a packet in a small amount of water, then swirl and swallow; makes it easy to take. It's not cheap, but it's effective and convenient. From my research and personal experience, 1 gram of liposomal is equivalent to about 5 grams of powder taken orally. If you're working with a serious health issue, it's also possible to reach a much higher blood concentration with liposomal than it is with the powder.

 

I also sometimes take Ascorbic Acid powder -- 1 tsp in a glass of water, usually with food. Works fine, too. If I don't take it with food, I rinse my mouth with water afterwards to avoid any potentially negative effects of acid lingering on my teeth.

 

I don't bother mixing with baking soda or baking powder, since I don't want the extra sodium. The acid aspect doesn't bother my stomach; it just tastes sour for a few seconds, and it's over.

 

Vit C has a short half-life in the body, so frequent dosing is ideal, particular if you're dealing with a serious health issue. For me, I take it as an occasional supporting adjunct (such as for collagen), so in that context I'm happy with once/day dosing.



#5 MKultra

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 10:53 PM

True enough, but people on this forum usually have better knowledge than on other places (my experience at least), therefore my question.. I was thinking maybe i had missed something. People here seem to be rather positive about collagen. I recently saw someone here mega-dosing the super expensive tri-peptides, it was what made me google differences of collagen and protein / amino acids (took me approx 3 seconds to find this article). 

 

That Liposomal C on iherb is quite expensive, how many doses are in that?  

Thanks for the info :) 



#6 AceNZ

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 12:11 AM

True enough, but people on this forum usually have better knowledge than on other places (my experience at least), therefore my question.. I was thinking maybe i had missed something. People here seem to be rather positive about collagen. I recently saw someone here mega-dosing the super expensive tri-peptides, it was what made me google differences of collagen and protein / amino acids (took me approx 3 seconds to find this article). 

 

That Liposomal C on iherb is quite expensive, how many doses are in that?  

Thanks for the info :)

 

Collagen is an interesting and somewhat complex subject. Proteins and Vit C are really only the high-level view. There are more thorough / involved supplementation programs out there (with some really bright people behind them). It plays a range of important roles in the body, no doubt about it. For me, at my age (59) and health status, it's been a low priority. That may change over the next few years.

 

One box of LypriCel Liposomal C provides 30 doses (30 packets). I know people who use inexpensive powder on an everyday basis, but keep Liposomal on-hand to use if they get sick (Vit C is a good anti-viral, but requires a relatively high blood level that's difficult to reach with powder alone), or use it when they're traveling when powder would be inconvenient. Others just can't stand the taste of the powder or don't want to deal with the hassle of measuring-and-mixing, and are willing to a premium for the Liposomal alternative.

 

If you're interested in the medical aspects of Vit C, here's a link to an interesting talk: 



#7 Phoebus

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 02:06 AM

This is a common belief but incorrect. As I discovered in my thread here 

 

https://www.longecit...ce-of-collagen/

 

This study here basically says that collagen peptides can be utilized directly by the body without being broken down into its basic amino acid components. 

 

This flies in the face of literally hundred of websites which claim that collagen is first broken down into glycine, proline, etc and then those individual amino acids are used by the body. This study says no, the entire collagen peptide can be directly transferred to the bloodstream and the skin! 

 

 

Oral Ingestion of Collagen Hydrolysate Leads to the Transportation of Highly Concentrated Gly-Pro-Hyp and Its Hydrolyzed Form of Pro-Hyp into the Bloodstream and Skin

 
Collagen hydrolysate is a well-known dietary supplement for the treatment of skin aging; however, its mode of action remains unknown. Previous studies have shown that the oral ingestion of collagen hydrolysate leads to elevated levels of collagen-derived peptides in the blood, but whether these peptides reach the skin remains unclear. 
 
Here, we analyzed the plasma concentration of collagen-derived peptides after ingestion of high tripeptide containing collagen hydrolysate in humans. We identified 17 types of collagen-derived peptides transiently, with a particular enrichment in Gly-Pro-Hyp. This was also observed using an in vivo mouse model in the plasma and skin, albeit with a higher enrichment of Pro-Hyp in the skin. 
Interestingly, this Pro-Hyp enrichment in the skin was derived from Gly-Pro-Hyp hydrolysis, as the administration of pure Gly-Pro-Hyp peptide led to similar results. Therefore, we propose that functional peptides can be transferred to the skin by dietary supplements of collagen.
 

 

By the way according to my research the therapuetic dose of collagen is 10 grams/day which almost no one ever does . 

 

I'm doing 6 grams a day with 1 gram Lysine and dark chocolate first thing in the morning and my facial skin has markedly improved 


Edited by Phoebus, 21 January 2019 - 02:14 AM.

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#8 MKultra

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 07:10 AM

@AceNZ : thanks again, will take a look at that video!

 

@Phoebus : ah so i was missing something then, that's very good to know. Do you use tri-peptide variant? It does not even seem to be available here in Sweden.. It's probably not something i intended to use for any extended period but perhaps for a short time if i do a more serious facial peel. Before (maybe for 2 weeks or whatever) and after for a couple of weeks, to make sure the skin has all that it needs to build up nicely again.



#9 Phoebus

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 03:28 PM

I use Collagen I and III



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#10 onz

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Posted 27 January 2019 - 03:42 PM

Phoebus, I'm curious why you're only using 6g when you mention the therapeutic dose is 10g? And could you elaborate on the inclusion of lysine?

#11 Phoebus

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 01:41 AM

Phoebus, I'm curious why you're only using 6g when you mention the therapeutic dose is 10g? And could you elaborate on the inclusion of lysine?

 

 

10 grams is to treat injuries, I tried 6 gr/day and got visible results in my face with less noticable wrinkles so I felt that was a good dosage. If I had a serious ligament injury I would be doing 10 gr/day. 

 

I include Lysine for 2 reasons. First because it prevents collagen from breaking down. 

 

Secondly, I have Herpes 1 (the cold sore herpes variety) and collagen has a lot of arginine in it which can trigger herpres, lysine counteracts arginine. 

 

https://selfhacked.c...ealth-benefits/

 

also in the future if you quote someone's post they get an alert, otherwise the person might not notice your reply, just an FYI 


Edited by Phoebus, 25 February 2019 - 01:43 AM.

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#12 William Sterog

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 04:31 PM

I was going to link your very good thread, Phoebus. Great job there.

#13 ta5

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 10:04 PM

I have yet to see any evidence that the hydrolyzed collagen products have any more benefit than plain gelatin. I take 25g of NOW Beef gelatin twice daily in my food.

 

One benefit is that it's low in Methionine and Leucine. Together with a small amount of meat, only 1.5-2oz per day, I'm able to get just barely adequate Methionine and Leucine and >100% of all the other essential amino acids. Plus it should be good for skin, hair, nails, bones, blood vessels, and maybe longevity. 


Edited by ta5, 17 March 2019 - 10:05 PM.

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#14 JohnD60

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 12:49 AM

I take 6g/day of Great Lakes collagen Hydolysate. Of course the collagen is broken down in your stomach to amino acids. The benefit of supplementing collagen is that it supplies  large amounts of the amino acids Glycin and Proline, which are inadequate in the diets of most people because we eat only muscle meat, and feed the skins and ligaments to animals. But, but, but you say that Glycin and Proline are not essential amino acids. No, they are not classified as essential amino acids, but if you actually read the studies from the 1950s that established this you will realize how weak that decision was. Basically dietary tests on less than 200 people, all healthy college students in their 20s. No testing on older people or people in not so good of health.


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