24 replies to this topic

[Peatson]

Hello everyone,

 

Just wondering would it be better to boost NAD levels or take NAD? and also, what particular NAD+ sup do you believe is best?

 

Personally, I have been looking into this brand for pure NAD/ boosters;

 

https://alivebynatur...g-x-60-tablets/

 

and - https://hpnsupplemen...roducts/nad3-60

 

Just not sure which way to go with it. Thanks 

 

 

 

[GABAergic]

very good question i wanted to find out this too. i came across this website called alivebynature and it claims NR is useless as capsules and you either need IV (which is costly and time consuming) or you can try sublingual which probably works (no good sources on this) but ill take it as possible route that does work. SO, anyone has experience with NR using sublingual and especially experiences to share using the brand alivebynature? please, thanks!

[able]

very good question i wanted to find out this too. i came across this website called alivebynature and it claims NR is useless as capsules and you either need IV (which is costly and time consuming) or you can try sublingual which probably works (no good sources on this) but ill take it as possible route that does work. SO, anyone has experience with NR using sublingual and especially experiences to share using the brand alivebynature? please, thanks!

 

ABN sells sublingual NMN and NAD+, not NR.  

 

No-one sells a sublingual NR, as it is actually NR Chloride, and it tastes horrible when pure, although some on the forum here take NR capsules apart to pour under the tongue and find it palatable as it is around 2/3 filler, which covers up the chloride taste enough.  I hope someone solves the taste issue soon.

 

I've been taking the ABN NMN powder for 9 months, and believe it is far more effective than a capsule, as I've made great gains physically over that time.

 

The NAD+ powder is even more stimulating than the NMN powder.  Other than that, I couldn't say if it has the same or different effect on anything else as I've been mixing them for some months now

 

I haven't taken their NAD+ tablets at all.  The NMN tablets are convenient, but I personally don't feel are as effective as the powder.

[able]

@Peatson - The HPN product is plain old Niacin - not Niagen, NMN, or NAD+

 

 

[Phoebus]

There is no evidence that NAD is bio availalbe when taken by mouth. None. Thats why we are all obsessing about precursors. 

[GABAergic]

There is no evidence that NAD is bio availalbe when taken by mouth. None. Thats why we are all obsessing about precursors. 

 

ok so why NIAGEN has been claiming different for many years now and i spent so much money taking their products with no effect? i guess im an idiot

[Phoebus]

ok so why NIAGEN has been claiming different for many years now and i spent so much money taking their products with no effect? i guess im an idiot

 

Niagen is NR, not NAD+

 

NR is an NAD+ precursor that is orally bio available. NAD+ itself is not orally bio available. 

[able]

Do you have proof NAD+ is not orally bioavailable?

 

I know the old 1983 study showed NAD+ was hydrolyzed to NMN, and then NR, and all went on to NAM before exiting the GI Tract.

I checked a little and found this study below that shows NADH is not stable in acid and is destroyed in stomach, but NAD+ is the opposite and is stable in acid environment ( but not a base).

 

Comparison of Metabolic Fates of Nicotinamide, NAD and NADH.

 

I've always assumed NAD+ was destroyed in the stomach and that is why researchers gravitated to NR and NMN, but I didn't see anything that shows NAD+ actually fares worse than NMN or NR in the stomach.   There probably is, but I didn't see it - would be interested if you can point that out. 

 

 

As for NR being "orally bioavailable" - that is a bit deceiving imo.  It clearly elevates NAD+, but is it from NR, or NR digested to NAM?  According to the Trammel/Brenner research, NAM elevates NAD+ levels even more than NR (per mg).  The Liu study showed no NR or NMN make it outside the liver intact. So I don't know that there is any proof that NR is able to navigate the GI tract without breakdown any better than NAD+ at all.

 

I'm just curious about it.  But for myself, I take both NMN and NAD+ powder sublingual, and I have zero doubt they are both bioavailable that way.  

 

As I've mentioned a few times, both are quite stimulative and increase my heart rate within a few minutes - the NAD+ much more so.

 

Yes, I know that is not proof  to others - only for me.  

 

 

Edited by able, 14 February 2019 - 08:29 AM.

[Phoebus]

I was under the impression that Sinclair has said  NAD+ is not orally bioavailable

 

looking now for a reference but can't find it 

[able]

I was under the impression that Sinclair has said  NAD+ is not orally bioavailable

 

looking now for a reference but can't find it 

 

 

Yes, I recall that in the Joe Rogan interview - I'll look for it also. 

 

He was asked, and said something like "We don't know if NAD+ is available".  

 

It was vague whether he was referring to oral supplements making it thru, or how well NAD+ can make it into cells intact.  

 

 He is surely biased for NMN vs NAD+ or NR, but he has been around the block already and is much more careful about how he words things than Dr Brenner

[Heisok]

able,

 

Do you think that the elevated heart rate is good, or is there a possible negative effect? If taken multiple times spread out during the day, is that keeping the heart rate constantly elevated? If I remember correctly, I believe you also mentioned the ability to have a higher exercise heart rate.  Is this a warning sign, or negative as a risk? Maybe a warning to others to see their doctor to evaluate risks before starting.

 

A few weeks ago, I had an appointment with a Surgeon for evaluation. My heart rate was 99 beats per minute. A sign on the exam room said excision room, so that might have spiked my rate.

 

I also still believe that sublingual NMN has positive mood, and exercise improvement.

Edited by Heisok, 14 February 2019 - 05:34 PM.

[able]

able,

 

Do you think that the elevated heart rate is good, or is there a possible negative effect? If taken multiple times spread out during the day, is that keeping the heart rate constantly elevated? If I remember correctly, I believe you also mentioned the ability to have a higher exercise heart rate.  Is this a warning sign, or negative as a risk? Maybe a warning to others to see their doctor to evaluate risks before starting.

 

A few weeks ago, I had an appointment with a Surgeon for evaluation. My heart rate was 99 beats per minute. A sign on the exam room said excision room, so that might have spiked my rate.

 

I also still believe that sublingual NMN has positive mood, and exercise improvement.

 

 

I experience a slight elevation in heart rate (10-15 bpm) if I take large dosages - above 250 mg.  It lasts a minute or two.  I don't experience this when I take my usual 125 mg dose - only when experimenting with mega dosages.

 

After months of usage, I  did notice an improved ability to achieve higher max heart rate during exercise.  Am seeing high 180's now on the treadmill - very close to my max of 20 years ago when I first used the old polar heart rate monitors.  

 

I don't consider an increased max hr a bad thing.  Increased resting heart rate, yes.  I haven't noticed that myself.

 

But I don't think I've posted about my max hr here before -  I think you are recalling something  Oakman said?

 

I have seen several people mention that on the fb group.  

[AlbertN]

I experience a slight elevation in heart rate (10-15 bpm) if I take large dosages - above 250 mg.  It lasts a minute or two.  I don't experience this when I take my usual 125 mg dose - only when experimenting with mega dosages.

 

 

How long after you put the powder under your tongue do you get the elevated heart rate?    If it's a few minutes or less,  then that's evidence that you can absorb more than 30 mg at a time sublingually.    That's especially true because the effect only lasts for a minute or two.  It's hard for me to believe that the window of effect would be so narrow if you were absorbing the NVM through the digestive system.

[able]

How long after you put the powder under your tongue do you get the elevated heart rate?    If it's a few minutes or less,  then that's evidence that you can absorb more than 30 mg at a time sublingually.    That's especially true because the effect only lasts for a minute or two.  It's hard for me to believe that the window of effect would be so narrow if you were absorbing the NVM through the digestive system.

 

Yes, it is within a minute.  That is why I originally posted about it the first time - because it shows that far more than 30 mg is absorbed sublingually (at least with the powder).  

 

With the normal 125 mg dose they say you get with the little plastic scoop, I can feel an effect, but not enough to notice increased heart rate.  

 

It is only when I use higher dosages that I notice elevated hr.

 

250 mg of the NAD+ does it for me.  For NMN, I might notice a little increase at 250 mg, but get it fairly strong when I do 2 250 mg spoonfuls back to back.

 

I know the research on sublingual tablets show that 30 mg or so is the maximum that is instantly transported, after which additional dosage yields diminishing returns.  

 

That is a tiny tablet that  depends on saliva to dissolve it.  Too much drug/saliva, and you swallow more and more. 

 

The powder is much different.  It spreads across a much wider area, and dissolves instantly with little or no saliva and none swallowed.

 

Personally, I'm  very happy  a powder  is the most effective, as no-one can make a special pill they combine with pterostilbene or whatever, and charge 10x more for it.  

 

With competition, the price of powder will be driven down by bulk suppliers and we will get much better pricing than if it was a pill.

[Phoebus]

Well okay inspired by this thread I tried some pure NAD+ powder sublingual. It does do something I think. 

 

Then I tried adding some Propylene glycol to the powder before placing under tongue.  Propylene glycol  is a known penetration enhancer. I'm telling you...this works!

 

I legit felt a surge of nice energy, alertness levels peaked, and almost felt like a drank a cup of strong coffee. Very interesting. I think I will continue to experiment with this formula and see what happens. 

[GABAergic]

not sure "like a strong coffee" is enticing to me but im curious to try this method. so basically both NAD+ and NMN powders sublingual will work and i should dump the silly Niagen? just to confirm this before i move on, thanks

[Phoebus]

not sure "like a strong coffee" is enticing to me but im curious to try this method. so basically both NAD+ and NMN powders sublingual will work and i should dump the silly Niagen? just to confirm this before i move on, thanks

 

 

The thing I hate about Niagen is all the filler that is in there. How much microcrystalline cellulose and hypromellose does one person need? 

 

Plus sublingual is the way to go and I really dont need to be absorbing bunch of microcrystalline cellulose sublingually 

[GABAergic]

and correct me if im wrong, for some reason the niagen caps cannot be used sublingually?  maybe because of the filler. damn fillers have always been the biggest issue for me when it comes to supplements in general. no business is just going to buy lab material and throw it in for direct consumption without trying to make profit in between. what kind of an idiot would do that? would you do that?

[AlbertN]

Able,

 

A year or so ago you said you were mixing your NMN with Xylitol.  Are you still doing so, or are you just using pure NMN powder?  If you are still mixing, what ratio do you think is best?

 

[able]

Able,

 

A year or so ago you said you were mixing your NMN with Xylitol.  Are you still doing so, or are you just using pure NMN powder?  If you are still mixing, what ratio do you think is best?

 

I was mixing 1, or 2 sachets of aspartame or xylitol in a 12 gram jar, and it tastes great.  

 

But I do keto diet and no sugar/sweetener otherwise, so have also stopped adding to my NMN and NAD+ - it really isn't necessary and I actually kinda like the natural, slightly  sour taste now.

[GABAergic]

what does your keto diet comprise of? im always asking people who do that diet because i suffer from low blood sugar and it might put me down and im curious exactly what you eat and perhaps i might try

[GreenmachineX]

I was mixing 1, or 2 sachets of aspartame or xylitol in a 12 gram jar, and it tastes great.

But I do keto diet and no sugar/sweetener otherwise, so have also stopped adding to my NMN and NAD+ - it really isn't necessary and I actually kinda like the natural, slightly sour taste now.

Does the NADH enhance ketosis? I’ve been doing a little research and struggling to get my blood ketone levels up; wondering if this is what I’m missing.

[The Beauty of Peace]

I am not sure if NMN is considered to be an NAD+ booster, but I love the effect of NAD+ more than NMN.

 

I feel like I agree with the ALIVE by nature company saying that NAD+ is better for mood/brain and NMN is better for muscles. 

 

[Phoebus]

I am not sure if NMN is considered to be an NAD+ booster, but I love the effect of NAD+ more than NMN.

 

I feel like I agree with the ALIVE by nature company saying that NAD+ is better for mood/brain and NMN is better for muscles. 

 

 

What method are you taking the NAD+ powder? Sublingual? 

[The Beauty of Peace]

What method are you taking the NAD+ powder? Sublingual? 

Yes.